Clinton KNOWS : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

"I come before you tonight with a challenge as great as any in our peacetime history -- and a plan of action to meet that challenge, to prepare our people for the bold new world of the 21st century. ...

My fellow Americans ... now we must rise to the decisive moment, to make a nation and a world better than any we have ever known.

The new promise of the global economy, the Information Age, unimagined new work, life-enhancing technology -- all these are ours to seize. That is our honor and our challenge. We must be shapers of events, not observers, for if we do not act, the moment will pass, and we will lose the best possibilities of our future.

We face no imminent threat, but we do have an enemy. The enemy of our time is inaction."

Excerpts from President Clinton's State Of The Union Address, February 4, 1997, from The Oregonian, February 5, 1997, page A4.

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-- Leska (, January 09, 1999


"... Moynihan asked the Congressional Research Service to prepare a report on possible Y2K consequences. What came back in June 1996 was chilling: hospital systems failing, airplanes not taking off or landing, records being scrambled -- one cataclysm after another. Moynihan passed the news to Bill Clinton in a July 31, 1996, letter, along with a recommendation that the President appoint someone who would ensure that all federal agencies -- and the companies that did business with them -- be Y2K-compliant by January 1, 1999. "The computer has been a blessing," Moynihan closed. "If we don't act quickly, however, it could become the curse of the age."

Moynihan was not telling Clinton anything he didn't already know; eight months earlier, Howard Rubin, chairman of the computer-science department at Hunter College, had briefed the president in detail. "Clinton understood that technology is more than the Internet and pulling wires through high schools," says Rubin. "He really understood how everything was tied together [and Y2K's] potential for broad-reaching consequences. He was very interested and very concerned."

Vanity Fair, January 1999, Page 141

mmmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmmmm m

-- Ashton (, January 10, 1999.

Compare the dates and scream ...

-- Leska (, January 10, 1999.

It's pretty clear how and why John Koskinen was appointed. And, given Koskinen's fancy footwork, you have to wonder just how rosey the picture is that Clinton is given in briefings considering the recent moves by FEMA and others. No doubt, I think we're going to hear about y2k in the upcomming state of the union address. Mike ====================================================================== Mike

-- Michael Taylor (, January 10, 1999.

Interesting point, Mike. Anyone wanna bet on whether Clinton will bring up Y2K in the next State of the Union speech, coming soon?

For the first time, I'm actually mad at him! Previously just didn't care ... but the above speech makes me think he's a sadistic gamer and less than straightforward (yeah, don't even say it).

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-- Leska (, January 10, 1999.

Mike, I don't believe one split second that Clinton is relying on Kosniken's briefings, or even that Kosniken is giving him the SAME briefings that we are getting officially. An awful lot is going on behind closed doors that we never hear about during the term being served, only afterwards, sometimes decades later if ever.

-- Chris (, January 10, 1999.

Does Clinton Know? Oh YES, he knows all. Facts for your consideration; 1. President Clinton has systematically dismantled our nuclear response and deterrence forces through restructuring andbudget cuts. The Strategic Air Command no longer exist. The fleet of B-52's armed with nukes no longer sit at the ready on the flightlines or perform their nightly patrols. He has changed our counterstrike policy through executive order to launch on verification of actual hits on our cities AND Presidential authorization from launch on launch detection. Those unarmed B-52"s andB-1" take a minimum of 24 hours to rearm with nuclear warheads. If the russians or Chinese were to launch a major strike against us our ICBM's would be destroyed on the ground along with our weapon storage facility's and all of our command and control. We wouldn't even get off a shot under the policy Clinton has implemented. 2. The GPS satelites are going down Aug. of this year. These control the guidance systems on all of our ICBM's and cruise missiles, along with the terrain following low altitude automatic pilot systems on our heavy bombers and fighter bombers. This is the system which allows them to fly under radar across hostile territory on ingress to target. From Aug. to Dec. 31 thee communist will have a free shot at us if they decide to enter the next century unappossed as the worlds superpowers. They still maintain the largest Army on Earth and could roll across Europe in a week without U.S. opposition. 3. Even in their "dire" financial state they have continued construction of massive underground fallout shelters, and even a high speed underground railway linking the Kremlin to bunker complexes carved into the granite of the Ural mountains. Two weeks ago they announced the deployment of the worlds most accurate and advanced ICBM which is truck mobile and capable of hitting any part of the continental United States. These weapons development programs and shelters were paid for with your tax dollars via the International monetary fund.4. Clintons lack of timely and meaningful leadership on the Y2K issue, coupled with his defense department budget cuts has assured that the military will be nowhere near 100% compliant and operational 1-1-2000. 5. China posesses the worlds largest surface nave and it is almost entirely composed of WW-11 vessels which are immune to the effects of Y2K or EMP from nuclear detonations. According to the GAO the American Navy has allocated enough money for Y2K remediation to repair One Ship. 6. The Russians have lost approximately 50 suitcase nukes which they cannot account for. High level Russian defectors have openly told the public that these weapons are alreadyon U.S. soil in the posession of Spetznatz troops awaiting orders to detonate them in our large cities and outside our military bases. 7. The Chinese have strategic control of the Panama canal and have the ability to shut it down or destroy it any time they get ready. This would effectively seal our pacific and atlantic fleets in their current zones of operation, from where they would be unable to re- enforce each other. In summary Bill Clinton has set this nation up to be destroyed in a Nuclear attack sometime between Aug. and Dec. 31 of this year. The only question is will the communist choose to strike before Y2K renders their own weapons useless? Personally I think Clinton has been working with the One World government Socialist all along, and this whole thing was preplanned and will be executed probably in November of this year.

-- Nikoli Krushev (, January 10, 1999.

Komrade Krushev, I certainly hope there are holes in your scenario. Hardliner? Maybe we won't have to wait it out until 1/1/2000 after all ...

Perhaps a knowledgeable military person can address Komrade's points?

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-- Leska (, January 10, 1999.

Wow! Talk about being paranoid!

-- (@@@.@), January 10, 1999.

" 2. The GPS satelites are going down Aug. of this year."

Unless there's been some new revelation in the past 48 hours that I'm totally unaware of, this statement does not even come close to being true. The general consensus on GPS is that the satellites themselves are fine and will remain fine. The GPS date rollover may affect some earthbound receivers. This aspect of the problem seems to be fairly well understood.

To my knowledge, even Infomagic, Gary North and Paul Milne have not said that the GPS satellites are going down. Do you have a source for this information that you'd like to quote or point the rest us to?

-- Arnie Rimmer (, January 10, 1999.

More military details at this thread:- msg_id=000NAa

-- Andy (, January 10, 1999.


First Nikoli, isn't it Nikolai Kruschev???

That over with, most of your facts above are precisely correct.

I highly recommend listening to the following two radio show excerpts - both guests recently on national radio.

Listen to what they have to say and make up your own mind.

First - Joel Skousen on 8.10.98 Art Bell

Transcript at^4122475@.ee745f9/0

Real Audio at

JS: They are. Look at this complete underground nuclear complex, the live-in factories and conditions.... the size of the entire Washington D.C. metroplex....underground in the Ural Mountains....reported by the "New York Times" about a year-and-a-half ago. Our "yes-man" intelligence community made excuses that this was totally defensive. It's just laughable! The degree to which the administration will go to protect something.... but you see, that tells you something. When you look at how much they're protecting it, look in contrast. For example, one little violation from Saddam Hussein for not letting a few inspectors in, and we raise the entire specter of war, don't we? Russia has NEVER let our inspectors in! It has been in total violation of numerous treaties for years. Do we complain? Do we threaten war? Do we even say there's a problem? You see, what I'm saying is that the cover-up always tells you something.

Really worth listening to... paranoid??? maybe :)

Next guest

Stanislav Lunev Book: Through the Eyes of the Enemy: Russia's Highest Ranking Military Defector Reveals Why Russia Is More Dangerous Than Ever Appearance: 9/04/98

Real Audio link at

-- Andy (, January 10, 1999.

After all this is said, we only have ourselves to blame. I have been screaming this stuff for years. My reward is being labled paranoid and living an oppresive life at the hands of the goverment. Although, I will continue making lemonade with the lemons... I think we can all assert to be true that OUR GOVERMENT is not telling us the whole story about Y2K and the role it will play in "trying to bring" about necessary changes that have to be made on this planet. I don't disagree with the fact that the very existance of this planet requires drastic change soon. I only disagree with the methods that are being used to bring about this change. I beleive Y2K was conceived decades ago by evil people that WE allowed to hold the reins of power. WE can take the reins back and put them in honest hands, and WE never, never will, ever.. Is there not already a war going on here? Good against Evil? The people against goverments? The goverments aganst its constituents? Why are they governing in secrecy? Evil is at war with WE THE PEOPLE. Its only a cold war now but soon will escalate into full blown war via Y2K. Its a secret war conceived in secret meetings over the last five decades. I don't claim to have the answers to bring about necessary change only my own theories. I know change has to be made in an honest forthright manner. I beleive man is incapable of this. So, where does that leave us? We can not solve our present or long term catastrophic problems that will be a part of everyday life on this planet soon without a higher power. Is there a man on this planet with that power? The power to come up with HONEST solutions to problems created by MAN? I think not. Is there a HIGHER POWER somewhere in the universe with this ability? Yes, I know there is and its not through faith that I know this. My life has been PHYSICALLY touched by a higher power. What that power is I don't know. Was it God? I don't know, haven't been to church but once in the last 27 years. But, only through this HIGHER POWER that I choose to call GOD is all things possible. Have you ever done something wrong to turn right around and something bad has happened to you? Have you ever given something from your heart to turn right around and it come back to you many times over? THIS IS GOD AND GOD IS JUST. If it has never happened to you then one of two things has not allowed you to experience this ordinary phenomenon. Either you are not aware of whats happening in your week to week life and you walk through life with blinders on or you are a product of Evil. Again, only my opinion. So what do you choose to do? I know what I'm doing. I have spent $300K preparing to survive, with the hope that my HIGHER POWER will bring about change in this world that my children and their children will live in harmony with your children and their children for a 1000 years. Mike

-- flierdude (, January 10, 1999.

If we are confused by the conflicting rhetoric of business, banking, and government we can simply TURN OFF THE RHETORIC AND DEAD RECON THE TRUTH FROM WHAT WE OBSERVE THEM DOING! If one entirely ignored and discounted Clinton's (good is bad and bad is good) justifications and explanations for his actions it would be obvious to any one examining his deeds and their consequences that he is not only treacherous but a traitor as well as entirely corrupt. It would further be obvious that from what our leaders are DOING (NOT SAYING) that THEY expect Y2K to challenge the continuation of this world as we know it. That being said, if they (by their deeds) expect Y2K to rock this nation HARD, THEN I ALSO WILL PREPARE FOR A HARD TIME REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY SAY.

-- Ann Fisher (, January 10, 1999.

Bill Clintons latest, LONG speech.

Note he NEVER mentions Y2K, however I find this quote and the one about Nelson Mandela intriguing. -- Diane

How can we modernize the financial architecture, which was created 50 years ago, to facilitate trade and investment so that it also supports this global economy and the movement of money in ways that never could have been imagined? I think we're making progress, but I expect it to be a major focus of my international efforts this year. And I hope, even though it's a fairly obscure process, it will be clear enough to everyone that we will have support for the United States leading the way.

January 8, 1999


Another additional, and inspiring, excerpt about Nelson Mandela ...

And who is the most interesting person you have met during your presidency? [asked by a child age 12]

But I think among the politicians, the political leaders I've met, I could mention many more, but I think the most interesting one I've met, for me, for a particular reason, is Nelson Mandela, the President of South Africa. (Applause.) And I say that for this reason -- to the young people -- you should think about this the next time something bad happens to you and you get discouraged.

Bad things happen to kids, you know -- people they like don't like them; gang members try to push them around, maybe threaten them, maybe even hurt them; they make grades that they don't think are as good as they ought to be. You know. Disappointments happen in life.

Nelson Mandela was in prison for 27 years because of his political beliefs. And we talked once about it. And he walked out of there with enough mental and emotional strength to take all the support that he had generated by becoming the symbol of South African freedom and to win in a landslide the first free election they had had in 350 years, and to do it in a way that brought people together across racial and political lines instead of driving them apart.

When I went to South Africa, Nelson Mandela, for example, arranged for me to have lunch with legislative leaders. And one of them was the leader of the most militant right-wing, white party there who had once threatened to restart a civil war if Nelson Mandela got elected President. And Mandela sat down and talked to him and convinced him he ought to be part of the political system. And then when I came to South Africa, instead of having me eat lunch with all of his allies, he had me sit down and eat lunch with this fellow.

I have a minister friend who ran into President Mandela at the airport in Johannesburg and he came up to a little five year old white girl, and he asked the young girl if she knew who he was, and the young girl said, yes, you're President Mandela, you're my President. And he looked at this little child now, after all his life, and he said, yes, young lady; and he said, if you study hard in school and you learn a lot about things you, too, could grow up to be President of South Africa.

Hillary and Chelsea and I have all become friends of President Mandela, but also fascinated by how he survived 27 years in prison. There was over a decade in which he didn't have a bed in his cell. A dozen years of breaking rocks, an experience which cost him seeing his children grow up -- ultimately cost him his marriage and subjected him to all sorts of physical and emotional abuse. And he walked out of prison, got elected President, invited his jailers to his inauguration.

So I asked him one day, I said, how did you do this? I said, how did you go without hating them? And he said, well, you know, I did hate them for a long time, about 12 years. And he said, one day I was out there breaking rocks in prison and I thought, look what they've taken away from me. They've taken the best years of my life. I can't see my kids grow up. They brutalized me. They can take everything -- they can take everything from me, but my mind and my heart. Now, those things I will have to give to them. I don't think I will give them away. You think about that. I don't think I will give them away.

The morning Nelson Mandela got out of prison, it was an early Sunday morning in America, in the Central Time Zone. And I got my daughter up and I took her down to the kitchen and turned the television on and sat her up on the counter -- she was a little girl -- and I said, I want you to watch this, this is one of the most important things you'll ever see. And some of you remember when Mandela took that last long walk to freedom, when he was coming out of the prison.

So I asked him, I said, now, when you took that last walk, tell me the truth, didn't you hate them again? He said, yes, I started to. And he said, I was also scared because I hadn't been free in a long time; I was actually scared. And I was filled with anger. And then I thought to myself, when I become free, I want to be free. If I still hate them, I won't be free. They've had enough of my time. I'm not giving them any more, not another day. (Applause.)

This is a very long answer to a child's question, but it's an important answer. That's why he's the most interesting person I've met -- because I don't know another human being that suffered so much for so long and came out so much stronger and richer and deeper than he went into his period of suffering.

And so I ask the children here and the parents here to think about it when times get tough. And I ask America to think about it when we have all these racial and religious and political divisions that we think are so big -- we spend all of our time trying to solve the problems in Northern Ireland, the Middle East and other places in the world. None of the people -- practically none of the people that are involved in any of this stuff around the world, and nobody here in America has ever been through anything -- anything -- like what he went through.

And so when we call for a spirit of reconciliation and unity and community and mutual respect in America, we ought to think about Nelson Mandela. If it was good for him, it would sure be good for us.

-- Diane J. Squire (, January 10, 1999.

In all honesty, I've always had this feeling that y2k itself isn't the big story here. I have felt that by the time of the roll over itself y2k will be an anticlimax of sorts. I've felt that this year will bring many, many strange events.

Regarding Bill Clinton. I think anyone who puts all the blame on that one mans shoulders for the current situation with regard to the military simply gives the President too much credit. All budgets, base closings, downsizing, etc. must be first agreed to by both houses and then signed by the President. It is our entire government which is responsible for the current state of affairs.

Has anyone heard of "the Third Way" If you have then you know that those concepts and ideals of a "one world government" transcend political party lines and go right to the heart of the "New World Order" or "One World" or what ever you wish to call it. Many, many politicians on both the right and left and in between call themselves "Third Wayers" including Newt, Gore, etc.

There is something happening which we, as a collective, are simply not being told about. Maybe because the reaction caused by "we" once the truth is known must be molded and manipulated first to avoid social, political and religious unrest.

Regardless of why it might happen I really do believe that there will come a "use it or lose it" time when politics and power will overwhelm logic and this year certainly seems the best cantidate ever.

Mike ====================================================

-- Michael Taylor (, January 10, 1999.

Well stated, all of you. My moniker is thereby exposed for what I believe is occuring at this time. Mass delusion in our belief that we have and will maintain:

democracy freedom privacy individuality constitutional rights

The collective you has gotten lazy, self-absorbed, self-contained and uninterested in anything going on around you that doesn't directly relate to or affect your finances or comfort level or lifestyle.

Sorry folks, what you are now experiencing are the last vestiges of what was once a great country. You have no one else to blame but yourselves, either. The price of freedom will always be eternal vigilence, and the collective you did not remain vigilant. It is sad, very sad.

-- (, January 10, 1999.

"" 2. The GPS satelites are going down Aug. of this year."

Unless there's been some new revelation in the past 48 hours that I'm totally unaware of, this statement does not even come close to being true. The general consensus on GPS is that the satellites themselves are fine and will remain fine. The GPS date rollover may affect some earthbound receivers. This aspect of the problem seems to be fairly well understood. " -Arnie Rimmer

Admittedly I'm no expert and perhaps this helps explain my worry. So let me lay out what worries me:

1. The only official and expert sources I've been able to view are from the military/gov. I haven't seen an independent expert site explaining the GPS satellite and ground control current status. I distrust the government to give civilian the whole truth. (By independent expert I mean top civilian experts such as people working at companies who developed the satellites used by the gov.)

2. Gov. GPS site claiming GPS satellites compliance restrict info to cleared military personnel only. (

3. Ground Control Systems of satellites are all claimed to be EOW compliant, but not Y2K compliant and are subject and scheduled to be fixed or replaced much like what we hear about the power generation plant problem and status. (

4. My own layman's deductive reasoning tells me that Ground Control Systems are what actually make the satellites function and be useful, much as software is what makes the computer box function and be useful.

In summation, I'm less worried about EOW rollover in August than I am of Y2K rollover, but I'm still worried because of the human factor and disinformation factor.

Arnie, I respect your understandings and views, care to comment on what I just said?

-- Chris (, January 10, 1999.

just because the guy likes an occasional blow job doesn't mean he's trying to kill us! however, if you continue to live in fear you will allow yourselves to be controlled by the likes of kenneth starr and the republican party.

-- (@@@.@), January 10, 1999.

@@@: absolutely. And here's my three reasons why the Kurschev's "Clinton will nuke the US" scenario is bogus: 1. The government is not competent enough to pull off that big of a conspiracy (although their fractional banking scheme is a pretty good scam)
2. Y2K has confused even the experts. Its too unpredictible to have been planned
3. SHIT happens.

-- a (a@a.a), January 10, 1999.

lol a!

#3 is the most clear, concise and logical reason why we are in this mess.

Mike =====================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (, January 10, 1999.

Chris: Good questions. I share your concerns and your lack of full trust. My point is that flat statements like "2. The GPS satelites are going down Aug. of this year." (made by 'Nikoli Krushev') must be supported with some hard evidence. I acknowledged that I myself might not have all the available information and invited the author of that statement to support it with some evidence.

I worked on GPS for 4 years. I am not an expert on the entire GPS system by any stretch of the imagination -- but I do have a somewhat better understanding than the average programmer. My work was limited to receivers ('User Equipment' in GPS terminology) for fighter aircraft. I do not know one way or the other what the effect of the GPS week rollover will be on the 'GPS system' as a whole - this is a very complex system involving a huge amount of software from hundreds of different companies. I do know that it is reasonable to expect that some software exists which does not take week rollover into account.

The information that I have seen thus far (i.e what you pointed to) has indicates that the satellites themselves will not have a problem with rollover. It is true that this information was provided by the DoD and I know of no independent verification of these statements. But neither do I know of anyone other than Nikoli who has stated 'the satellites will go down' -- so it is reasonable and prudent to question such claims.

You said: "2. Gov. GPS site claiming GPS satellites compliance restrict info to cleared military personnel only.

This is true and not surprising as GPS was developed initially as a DoD project. Like the Internet itself, its civilian uses were secondary to the original purpose. During the time that I developed GPS software, many portions were classified. We often had 'customers' in the facility who were themselves treated as classified (most of us were not allowed to know their names or who they worked for). I shied away from classified work not because of a mistrust but rather because of the huge overhead - you literally spend more time complying with security protocol than you spend doing actual work. This is, for the most part, pretty boring stuff. It is also expensive in the extreme because a task that would normally take 10 minutes requires and hour or two (or more).

That parts of the system remain classified and only available to authorized personal does not, in itself, cause me to suspect we are not being told the truth.

The DoD has always 'kept the keys' to GPS and can disable the entire system at will anytime they feel it is in their best interest to do so. The consequences of such action might be less than desirable for all involved however.

You said "3. Ground Control Systems of satellites are all claimed to be EOW compliant, but not Y2K compliant and are subject and scheduled to be fixed or replaced much like what we hear about the power generation plant problem "

This is more of a problem and a concern for me simply because the work is not done yet and, in general, I see a whole lot of 3 minute omlets being promised in 37 seconds. My systems development background tells me that many companies and organizations are engaged in a great deal of highly wishful thinking. Just about every phase of the GPS project I worked on was delivered past due and over budget. Still, I have no specific and credible evidence to suggest (other than the fact that they are not ready yet) that the GPS ground-based satellite control systems will not be ready for Y2K.

You said: "4. My own layman's deductive reasoning tells me that Ground Control Systems are what actually make the satellites function and be useful, much as software is what makes the computer box function and be useful."

This is also true but it is the applications of the GPS system that is perhaps most important with respect to Y2K. My suspicion is that significant failures will occur in some 'User Equipment'. With regard to much military equipment, I suspect this will be inconvenient but not mission critical.

As one example, many fighter jets use both GPS and the older (but still reliable) intertial navigation systems (INS). INS uses highly precise gyroscopes/accelerometers to determine the aircraft's acceleration, orientation, vector, etc. Both the GPS and the INS 'speak to each other' but neither take the other's data as absolute gospel. A technique known as Kalman filtering is used to suppress transient spikes/suspected bad data. In the event that the GPS set starts producing highly erroneous data, the INS simply ignores much of what the GPS set is telling it.

Finally, in the case of a piloted aircraft, the pilot and crew are the final arbitrators of the information provide by the aircraft. Could erroneous data lead to disasterous results? Sure could. But I also wish Al Hanes and the crew of United flight 232 were flying every aircraft I've ever been on.

You said "but I'm still worried because of the human factor and disinformation factor. "

Me too. And that's why I had to challenge the statement. Could I be wrong? Sure. I was certainly wrong about the FDIC's "Know Your Customer" proposal (can you tell I'm still letting that one get to me?). But I'm going to have to see at least enough evidence to give me a modicum of doubt.

GPS systems, when taken as a whole are extraordinarily complex and and date sensitive. Thus it is reasonable to assume that some problems will occur. But knowing exactly what will fail and precisely how it will fail -- that's the rub.

Getting at the facts here is extraordinarily difficult. Companies and government agencies want to hide their dirty laundry. Gary North's been hoping for the fall of Western civilization for a long time. CEOs want to keep the stock prices high. Major media does not want to lose advertising dollars. Lawyers seek to protect their clients. Bankers know their entire system is built on faith alone with not much real backing. Stormwatch has been speading their neo-Nazi hate for years. Pat Robertson thinks he's gathering souls for God. Heavens Gate had a UFO to catch.

Me? Well, I like technology and hot showers and California redwoods. Someday I want to eat diner again at the lodge on Crater Lake. I hope they're all here come 2001. So I'm going to get on the stick tomorrow and order another 55 gallon water drum. I'm not sure where the complete truth lies but I'm certain I'm not hearing it yet and so I'm hedging my bets...

-- Arnie Rimmer (, January 12, 1999.

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