The Final Straw...greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
I have absolutely HAD it with the DWGIs in my family. I come from a family of 10 siblings....4 are GIs and 6 are DWGIs. Of the 4, I am the only one who has spoken to the entire family..the other 3 don't want to look "stupid." The worst remarks come from 5 of my brothers who are ALL involved in companies fairly well known and do computer work there.(Which just goes to show that "working" with computers and "knowing" computers are 2 different things.) There is no use in ranting....y'all have heard it already....but I am ready to say "the hell with 'em all." This is very unlike me, but the bunker mentality has finally surfaced, and it scares me that I can feel this way. What do I do? Plan to take care of 6 siblings, plus all their spouses and children (a considerable number) PLUS my parents and in-laws? These are people I LOVE and they are all STUPID! If I could, I would pack up the husband and 6 kids and head for the wild country TODAY. (All right, tomorrow, we are snowed in again
.) And just maybe I would leave the husband behind, because he says he's sick of hearing about it all. (Of course, *I* on the other hand, just LOVE all this planning, spending money, etc.etc. )
Any ideas or "I know how you feel" responses are welcome.
-- Mercy (email@example.com), January 09, 1999
What do your brothers have to say? If they work as programers, they must have some sort of logic behind their DGI positions. Let us hear what they have said to you.
-- Bill (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 09, 1999.
I have four brothers and one sister, all with college degrees (age- 45 to 54), make good money and are not interested in Y2k. They always have an opinion about every thing. If it is not obviously effecting them, they not interested in it. Too busy spending money on junk. They all live in the city. I live in the country. I think they have had and are having so many problems dealing with society that they don't want to face up to any more problems, especially a big one like this. I am trying to prepare my family for Y2k and (relatives) will get what is left over. Maybe they will be lucky.
Unhappy but not slowing down for DWGI's.
-- FrustratedTOO (Downsouth@DWGI.com), January 09, 1999.
More often than I care to remember, after discussing Y2K with a DGI, I have heard: "Well, if it goes down like you say, I'll just come to your house." At first, I was left speechless. But this statement deserves a response. The best I've found is "I'll help you to prepare as much as I can *beforehand*, but if you don't feel it's important enough to take action now, don't come to this house if or when the problems occur."
-- Elbow Grease (Elbow_Grease@AutoShop.com), January 09, 1999.
Boy did I relate to all these posts. I loved Mercy's part about her husband being sick of it all. Like I'm not. Oh yes, the woman is always "the spender" and this intensifies that reputation to the nth degree. I love spending all our money on preparations. My husband rolls his eyes with each purchase. It is a weird position to be put in when one feels like their childrens' life is at stake. Also I have had a couple dozen people say the thing about they'll just come to my house.(I have a big mouth)This is very scary. All these people I love but I can't afford this. What a weird thing.
-- Lisa (email@example.com), January 09, 1999.
J. works for ATT. His only rationale is that "ATT will not let themselves lose money." He has worked for them for about 15 years. S. works for Morton-Thiokol as one of the major accountants. His answer "oh stop worrying about it...it's is not a problem" M. works for DePeuw...designs prosthesis'. His *quip* "Y2K has as much chance of impacting us as D. (18 months old) has of getting accepted to Harvard this year." G. works for a company that (hold on to your hat) does Y2k REMEDIATION!! His reply "don't believe all you read on the Internet. Our company is making millions because of fear mongers like you." (that one is so obvious I can't even reply to it!) N. used to do consulting, writing programs...is now in the seminary and blissfully out of the whole thing. His advice? "Listen to the boys (my bros.) they know what they are talking about." No. 6 (B.) is a priest who says he's tired already of all the doomsday scenarios which he believes accompany any turn of the century.
I do love my brothers, and am not trying to make fun of them, but see what I mean? NOTHING concrete to go on. The sad part is that the sis in laws were all interested until their husbands said " forget it."
Of course (they reason) I am a stay home mom, who homeschools 6 children. What could *I* possibly know? The fact that I have done more research and read thousands more articles than all of them put together means nothing.
The *boys*, BTW, range in age from 40 to 26. They are all younger than me (I am 41). Sorry so long, but thanks!
-- Mercy (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 09, 1999.
Mercy, unless these DWGI family members live around the corner from you, you may not have to concern yourself with them coming to you for help when TSHTF...
"Another officer fully expects travel restrictions to be placed on civilians. It may be against the law to travel except on official government business"
-- Goldi (email@example.com), January 09, 1999.
Dear Mrs. Mercy,
I sympathize and I understand. I informed (tried to) my brother who has a Ph. D. about Y2K. He teaches at a college and implied that I was paranoid and the Internet is full of garbage. He's never looked at the Net.
I have experienced a lot of other such responses in the past unrelated to Y2K. I've even been punished for pointing out an illegal life-threatening activity and predicted that so and so would eventually get cancer. --- A few years later so and so died of bone cancer.
There's no cure for denial; or stupidity.
-- fly . (.@...), January 09, 1999.
Mercy, I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. I've been there! I have 8 siblings myself, a formerly DGI and then DWGI husband. Just ask the oldies on this forum, I cried on their shoulders too. They told me to hang in there and they were great support. I hung in there, and now my husband doesn't roll his eyes at my purchases anymore, in fact he puts away the cans and supplies I bring from Costco as if it was normal grocery.
My 8 siblings weren't hard to convince I have to admit, they all live in Canada, which is a lot more opened about it all. But at first, when I told them of my stockpiling and preparation plans, and discussed the severity of the problem and domino effect, some rolled their eyes. To them I said "go ahead, make fun of me all you want, but I've warned you, and when SHTF and you're cought unprepared, I'll turn into a nasty witch to protect MY OWN kids, don't come begging to me." I love them all as much as you love yours. I said that more for effect and from anger and frustration, I don't think I could let anyone in the cold hungry, but it worked. They've heard more and more clues in the media afterwards, they can put 2 and 2 together about the economy, and so all of them are preparing as of last time I saw them this Christmas.
My frame of mind since I've started preparing and "got it" has been this: I don't care if everyone I love think I'm crazy, I'll continue to warn and show the example by preparing. Losing my mind is nothing compared to losing them.
Hang in there Mercy!
-- Chris (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 09, 1999.
If a computer programmer with a broad variety (and length) of experience thinks things will get ugly after studying the Y2K problem at some length, they might arguably be viewed as an "expert". Since the media so carefully controls the public, either due to economic expediancy, or intentional lies, it is not fair to say a non-computer person is "STUPID" because they don't get it. The ramblings of a computer "expert" (such as myself) pale in comparison to the influence of media, government, psychology & peer-pressure.
On the other hand, someone with a background unrelated to computers (perhaps historians, people with high-level security clearances and psychologists also qualify as experts) think things will be TEOTWAWKI, it is hard to say if they are pessimists, nuts clairvoyant or extremely smart.
If people with "inside information" think things will get ugly, I personally feel that they should prepare, but be very patient with friends & family. It might be better to buy a little less gold & guns, and keep the family together.
-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous.com), January 09, 1999.
I feel your pain : )
Your efforts thus far have not been non productive. You've planted the seed in their minds and eventually they will get it.
I started with my family quite a while ago. My wife was a DGI, then a DWGI and now she sits with me to plan what we need and what we should do. I tried for months with her but the thing that did it for her was her employer who has upgraded every system within their business and the fact that it is a CPA firm required to audit and report on y2k status. After my initial efforts with my mom, who is a strong political thinker, she became a GI by watching CSPAN and CNN. My eldest brother and his family are in Nevada and incommunicado. Low and behold, I found out during the holidays that he is the furthest along in his preparations AND he is within reasonable distance for a bug out of L.A. My twin brother was the most astounding. Being a twin provides for added excitement in life. He lives in D.C. and after talking to him we both realized we had taken very similar paths in becoming GI's. Very cool. My sister is the only person I have yet to get to and my brother in law is a DWGI but I feel him beginning to buckle under the strain of the media blitz. My wifes family, on the other hand, are all DWGI's but we're working on it.
Sometime this year all those you initiate will reach criticle mass. That is they will be forced to deal with it by the simple fact that you've made an effort to reach them and other sources will also provide further information. All the information will become useful when and if they begin to see failures.
Don't lose hope!
-- Michael Taylor (email@example.com), January 09, 1999.
My little ole mother is a GI now and trying to activate her senior center. For many of them the first response was also "Well, if it goes down like you say, I'll just come to your house." She was stunned too. Made her rethink how many people she wants to talk to it about. Shes making copies of some stuff Im giving her about the Red Cross and FEMA preparedness suggestions, also the Vanity Fair article and leaving it lying around. Shes begun talking to the neighbors over Christmas. Most DWGI, but one 30-year residential family bought $8,000 worth of food supplies, sold their house and just moved to a rural area. Ya never know.
Mercy, sometimes people can only start to get it with the small stuff. Then, as awareness increases, theyll be ready to get more. Think of it as slowly turning on a water faucet, rather than busting open a fire hydrant.
As Andy is fond of saying, Patience Glasshoppa.
At some point, as Michael says, when critical mass is reached, those of us who have the information, know how to prepare and know where to point people to do their own homework, will have a starring role among friends, family and neighbors.
Hang in there. Too many leads and clues behind the government scenes and smoke screens, indicate that this is not even remotely being taken lightly. In that information I trust.
-- Diane J. Squire (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 09, 1999.
I've had similar frustrations...but try not to screw up your strong family relationships over the next year. You'll need them when TSHTF.
-- Shimrod (email@example.com), January 09, 1999.
Mercy, I know how you feel. I have felt the same way. But, I have found that all I can do is try to inform them, with as much legitamate imformation that I can locate on these threads and other sites, that will reinforce my fears that I have for their own survival through these most interesting times we live in. I no longer tell them anything. I feel I have planted the seeds and they must cultivate them or let them die. Its totally up to them. I wonder if others see common distinguishing personality characteristics in the family members that don't get it or don't want to get it as I have. How can some one gamble with the lives of their children if they don't have a personality defect of some sort? Especially if they have the intelligence to understand and the finances to prepare. Does he or she have a grudging, mean reluctance to spend money as my brother and his wife does, yet will purchase extravagantly on themselves. My brother and his wife are so extremely parsimoniously stingy that I sometimes despise him to the point that I would allow him to starve to death on my front lawn. I told his wife a couple weeks ago that they would not be allowed on my property when and if things fell apart without a 6 month supply of food for their family. His wife asked me if they would be able to have there own storage area for their food....chuckle chuckle! I will hold to this except for the one child that they have. So, I wonder if others have taken notice of the types of personalities of other DWG'S in their families. Are they stingy and self centered like my brother and his wife?
-- flierdude (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 09, 1999.
Keep planting the seeds in their brains. Don't become a pest. Most of my family are starting to prepare. Six months ago I had no clue about y2k problems, now I belive it will be a 7-10. People have to come to an awareness level at their own pace. No one wants to be hit in the face with the y2k pie. Your knowledge will come in handy when they become GIs. Prepare some materials for them to read on what foods to store, how to store and purify water, heat sources, protection ..... That information will be the best gift you have ever given them, but wait for them to ask for it.
-- Bill (email@example.com), January 09, 1999.
Mercy .. words of encouragement:
"A day at a time" ... and ..
The Serenity Prayer
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom
to know the difference.
Mercy .. there are times when I truly wish for a helpmate like you or Lisa or so many of the others that are struggling here. This solo life and preparing without an understanding partner to share the good times and bad together gets wearisome at times. Any more at home like you? (rhetorical...)
Oh well... back to work...
99 baggies of wheat yet to pack .. 99 baggies of wheat .. fill one up, stash it away .. 98 baggies of wheat yet to pack ...
Best wishes from the snowy and serene upper-midwest northwoods...
-- Dan (DanTCC@Yahoo.com), January 09, 1999.
Hey, Mercy! Tell your brother J. that AT&T is making VERY sure they don't lose money. Unfortunately, the method they are using is the one where they don't lose any money NOW by telling the stockholders bad news. The whole stock market is based on the future and forecasts, and the companies whose futures are less than bright don't stand a chance! Would AT&T stand there and say, "Nope, can't make it. Sorry." when MCI Worldcom & Sprint are standing there saying "Hey, we have every confidence that we'll make it!"?
I'll shut up now. I wish you well!
-- Arewyn (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 09, 1999.
My advice - hang in there with them - keep nagging ;) - eventually the media and word of mouth will kick in for them - unless thay are bonafide DWGI's they will hopefully wake up, the problem is they will probably do this when the rest of the population is also preparing to stampede. The next year will not be easy, the following one even worse. Hang in there - that's all you can do. keep nagging. Did I say keep nagging?
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 09, 1999.
Mercy, Maybe you recognize my name. I have been in dozens of newspapers. I have been on TV here and in other countries. My bviews are fairly well known.
I have seven brothers and sisters ans a mother who will do NOTHING at all.
To a one, they use the most insane excuses.
Bill gates will fix it. The government is serious, the stock market is doing great etc etc etc.
A 'Don't wanna get it' is just that they don't WANNA. Not love nor money nor patience nor anyhting else is going to get through to them if the don't 'wanna'. It defies rationality and rationality will NEVER prevail.
They are adults and they are responsible for their actions. It does not matter one bit that i love them and want them to be safe. That is irrelevant. They could not care less even about their own lives. It is not in the least that it has not been rationally explained and ALL their questions answered. They don't 'wanna'.
Do not give up, but do not waste your time either. These people are already dead. A hard fact to face but a fact nevertheless. Yes, it is painfull, but that is life. Go on to the next one. Is the guy next door not as important as your mother? Not one bit less important, especially if he is responsive.
-- Paul Milne (email@example.com), January 09, 1999.
Morton-Thiokol! MORTON-THIOKOL? ROTFLMAO! Hehe, there's no problem here, nosireebob. Fire that sucker up, those O-rings are just fine. Don't be such a worry wart! The Challenger is AOK. LOL!
-- MVI (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 09, 1999.
Brother #1: Newly minted and bar successful lawyer: "This country is so full of inovators and creative people, we'll find a way out, even if it means fermenting chicken dung to generate power. this is so overblown!"
brother #2: Computer consultant, software guru in his area (firewire 2 or whatever is slated to take over for Firewire!!! working on cable modem technology, at BOTH ends of the cable, for a company you WOULD recognize) "Yes, I've read Yourdon's new stuff. Most of the rest of us have said 'So?' and gone on with our lives."
Mom is 73ish and has a better grasp than the boys but won't do a whole lot to prepare.
I get to tear my hair out because it's 8 hours and a tank of gas to mom's, the rest live in NH (the lawyer) and Newport (systems guy).
ps Mom's sister is in Old Forge and I suspect that is where she would end up.
My prayers are with you.
-- Chuck, night driver (email@example.com), January 09, 1999.
I have started now with another approach to those who dwtgi's, and it seems to work. My response is: I'm not so sure that the problem will really be that the electricity, utilities etc. won't be working. Maybe it will all run fine for the most part.(forgive me for lying, I do believe we are going to see big problems on 010100) But my biggest concern is the perceived fear by the public that might cause a problem as we move closer to the day. I have found that people can somehow accept this better. My husband still calls me his "little survivalist" but when I bring home my supplies he's not calling me crazy.
-- lulu (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 09, 1999.
I don't know that my (non-but-closer-to-a) solution will work for you, but here goes.
I told my parents about Y2k around last August. They looked like they were hearkening back to my being 15 or something (I'm 33) and perhaps wanted to pat me on the head and tell me I'd get over it. I told them again, in some detail, via email early last November. They had no response whatever. I talked to them about it on the phone in early December. They said, well, maybe there'll be a couple "glitches" from this "bug" but all this doomsday stuff is just the rational-non-religious-computer version of the religious apocalyptic fears about century ends. (While I agree that could exist, I think ignoring what seem to be facts in favor of this theory explaining it is pretty irrational.)
So I had to think about it. Can I afford to stock up massive stuff for them too, and then drive to NE OK from Ncentral TX to give it to them? Not really. I decided that their decisions are their own, and I can't live their lives, BUT, if I loved them I would do whatever I could to help ensure their safety.
This included lying about how I felt when they came for Christmas.
They're not computer savvy outside writing email, but we are. Sitting back like the nonchalant experts on all things, as the subject was brought up by my husband (who thank god.* gets it), I smiled with a bit of mocking, "Well it's not like it's the END OF THE WORLD as some people suggest." (I rolled my eyes for effect about all those paranoids.) They laughed and agreed.
"But," I said, sitting forward and seeming serious now, "It's pretty clear that there might be SOME problems -- Oh, not forever of course," I said, watching them for signs of their pulling away or disbelief, "But you know, this is going to happen in the middle of winter, and there could be storms that could make things much worse of course. Heck, quite a few places in the US and Canada have been out of power for 2-4 weeks in the last few years, in Winter. Making sure you've got the food and heat and water stuff to be "camping" in your house for some time -- maybe even a few months worst case, if you add Y2K to the weather situation -- would be a wise idea. I mean with El Nino and La Nina, you just never know. I'd sure hate to have nothing prepared if something like that hit. I mean maybe you guys are okay but what about grandma down the street? She could need help too."
Once I established I wasn't a crazy doomsdayer, and once I caveated the problem by ensuring them it wasn't permanent, and that it was just for a few months, and that it was as much for others they feel protective of as for themselves -- that much, they were able to handle.
My father assured me he has enough camping gear and propane to last twice that much time. I asked about food and water. "We'd have to store that," says mom, "but we could stick it in the tornado shelter." "What a great idea!" I said, like she's the first human to think of it and ought to get a medal.
"Hey," I said, "even a bad storm or tornado could be hard you know -- having a bunch of canned food stored should probably be done just to be safe, anyway." They nodded thoughtfully. "You guys work on getting canned stuff and water," I said. "And if a storm hits you'll be the most prepared in your neighborhood."
And I think they got THAT. They didn't get Y2K. But they got something that is at least a part of it, enough that they I think will (or can be nagged to) do enough prep to at least be okay for 2-3 months.
It's the best I can do. If I can get them that far, then MAYBE the idea of Y2K won't be "too big" for them to absorb anymore. I think for many people, the scenario suggested is just so huge, so different from the reality they know, so scary, they don't know where to start and are afraid to try. But if you can get them to prepare for "some" problems and potential weather issues, then maybe they'll be less terrified about Y2K's deadline once they know they've got at least a couple months of safety net, and perhaps if they're a little more comfortable they'll be a little more able to later accept a slightly larger or longer scenario.
Sorry for the length. I can't even email hello without writing war & peace. :-(
-- PJ Gaenir (email@example.com), January 10, 1999.
Thanks so much for all your answers which I have read very carefully and taken to heart. You are all so kind. I have been lurking here so long that I "know" many of you and feel right at home. I love this place!
-- Mercy (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 10, 1999.
Brother #2 DWGI will soon be out of a job.
Morton is merging with Rohm and Haas out of Philadelphia, barring any unforeseen circumstances. Morton stock is up today. Rohm and Haas is down.
Mom (who was VERY pumped to get info and start stocking up) has completely changed her tune, and won't say which brother got to her. "Your father doesn't want to talk about Y2K and neither do I."
So there it is. I give up, and will probably have to sell my firstborn in order to stock enough for the entire (extended) family.
A discouraging day.
PS...NOT helping family is NOT an option.
-- Mercy (email@example.com), February 01, 1999.