If you will go back and read previous threads from weeks and months ago, you will "catch up" very quickly on Y2k. There is a lot of helpful and interesting information. Several of the older posters, I no longer see and do miss their comments. I wish they would return. PNG and Uncle Deedah.

Pay attention to Diane Squire, she does a lot of reseach and you can learn much from it.

-- Linda A. (adahi@muhlon.com), January 03, 1999

Answers

Linda-

It was Diane Squire and her endless posts and new age psyco- bable that ran PNG off.

Read PNG's post "Thanks and goodbye" in the Misc. thread in the Older Messages category.

-- not so full of myself (allsquired@out.com), January 03, 1999.

Yeah,

I miss the posts of PNG, Rocky Knolls, Deedah, Nigel Arnot. Some real contributions were made by them. I bet they all still lurk here though.

-- Anti-Chainsaw (Tree@hugger.com), January 03, 1999.

What's this "newbie" crap, and who the hell needs Linda A. to direct traffic. BTW Squire is just a frustrated old broad who should get out more. She cuts and pastes boring articles she finds on the internet and contributes nothing of substance. In other works she's like all theo other religious wackos on this forum. Anyone who wants Y2K from an idiot's perspective just go to garynorth.com and you can leave out the middleman

Have a Nice Day

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@excite.com), January 03, 1999.

I see James from your angry tone that you were successful in lighting one and no doubt burned a few arse hairs in the process. Oooh, I hate it when that happens. Try sitting on an inflatable rubber ring (you know, the kiddies thing, looks like a d'nut) and use a little cooking oil on the tender area. The next time you attempt to "turn the heat up" will not be quite so painfull; practice makes perfect. Really.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 03, 1999.

You don't need any one of us to tell you where to go to find material on Y2K. Just go to any search engine and type in Y2K, or Survival, or Gary North, or any name associated with Y2K. I pretty much skip over lengthy, long winded articles that are cut and pasted. I have my favorites on this BB, you all can probably tell who I disagree with most. At this point in this Y2K game, is that you get prepared for the worst and hope for the best. You don't need any one of us to tell you that because we are responsible for ourselves and family, not the government. P.S. I miss you too Uncle Deedah and PNG.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 03, 1999.

Reference Jimmy Bagga Donuts post (he's starting to repeat rules)

The 25 Rules of Disinformation

Rule number 5:

Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left- wing", "terrorists", "conspiracy buffs", "radicals", "militia", "racists", "religious fanatics", "sexual deviates", and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

MoVe Immediate

-- MVI (vtoc@aol. om), January 03, 1999.

Truthfully, the LAST person you need to listen to is Diane Squire. Namby pamby touchy feely new age psychobable unadulterated bullcrap.

Five minutes of listening to her and you will have blood pouring out your ears.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), January 03, 1999.

Paul Milne is an extremist. A big one. Don't listen to him either.

bbbb

-- bnonymous (b@b.b), January 03, 1999.

Wrong. Paul is a hard ass but he makes you think.SO take ALL the information with THE GRAIN of SALT it deserves.

-- nine (nine_fingers@hotmail.com), January 04, 1999.

Diane, Glad you don't let those who feel they have to put down every approach but their own drive you off the forum. This site needs someone standing up for community and your willingness to spend time and energy tracking down relevant articles in the press and on gvmnt sites is one of the reasons I bother to check this site. Linda- your post was thoughtful. Don't let the grinches spoil your day.

-- Maria (encelia@mailexcite.com), January 04, 1999.

Thanks Maria and Linda and Yourdonite friends.

PNG's posting back occasionally too. Internet phone costs are very expensive for him from Japan. Noticed that Uncle pops in too now and then. Holidays are just about over. Where is Richard "the bard" Dale? Robert Cook? BTW, some of the older ones may have started a private forum.

We're all trying to figure this thing out. Trying to do it alone is too overwhelming. 90% of the people posting here are great and widely different. There's strength in diversity. It's what our Founding Fathers envisioned.

Welcome Newbies, to the Yourdon melting pot. (Meltdown for others).

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 04, 1999.

Truthfully, the LAST person you need to listen to is Diane Squire. Namby pamby touchy feely new age psychobable unadulterated bullcrap. Five minutes of listening to her and you will have blood pouring out your ears.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), January 03, 1999.

I don't know who this guy is but I'm surmising he's a super doomer. Why he stopped writing children's books to do this I'll never figure out. Based on the fact that he is the only person besides moi to figure out the RAT Squire I think I'll re-examine my Y2K conclusions.

However

I'm not trying to be insulting here, just calling them as I see them:

Squire is a dangerous phoney. She's as new age as G. Gordon Liddy. For her own agenda (probably Religious, possibly just belonging to this group) she promotes the end of the world is comming. If you read her stuff you will realize she is a right wing survivalist nut who is a danger to the freedoms we are all guaranteed by the Constitution.

Many of the survivalist extremists on this forum are very mean and I have no problem with that. Most of them are honest mis-guided souls who just weren't raised right. Squire on the other hand is not what she pretends to be. The next honest statement she makes will be her first.

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@excite.com), January 04, 1999.

You don't know who Paul Milne is, Jimmy?

It's fedinfo@halifax.com. Send him an email. He LIKES talking to buttheads.

Or better still, go to the newsgroup comp.software.year-2000 and talk to him there. c.s.y2k is FULL of ignoramuses (ignorami?) who need to be informed about what extremist nuts they are, Jimmy. And there's people like you, too! Like SWCS! All they need is a leader.

You, Jimmy, could be that leader.

Renounce this forum and its puny delights. Head for the greater glories of a newsgroup that gets more traffic in an hour than this place gets in a week. It is c.s.y2k. It is the future. It is your destiny.

-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), January 04, 1999.

You gotta be joking Leo - jimmy fat bag of lard hasn't got the +BALLS+ to go to csy2k - he would be hung, drawn and quartered and fed to the crows.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 04, 1999.

Thanks to Kevin we now have a wonderful tool for troll response:

Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation - The Politicians Credo

http:// www.trufax.org/research2/disinforules.html

Jimmy, please re-read:

2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the "How dare you!" gambit.

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/ opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could so taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.

18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how "sensitive they are to criticism".

My own agenda, Jimmy?

1) To figure out what the heck is really going on with Y2K, and the seeming inaction on the part of our corporations, government agencies and political types. Like most of us posting here.

2) To try and find out what lurks behind-the-scenes, share what I find, for the greater good, and encourage others to do so, because what the group finds out helps all of us get a hold on this Y2K wildcat.

3) To hopefully have some small internet and digital, rippling impact, on waking up the rest of the nation and the inter-dependent global community, to an uncertain Y2K problem. To call for creative solutions, by e-mailing newsmedia and investigative journalists, and yes, Oprah, and encouraging others to do so as well, in their own words, or they are welcome to borrow mine and call them their own. The objective is to wake-up those already in a position to command the attention of the mass population. Because preparing all of us means less likelihood of uncontrollable panic and rioting. And selfishly, it means I and the family and friends I love, have a better chance of making it if more of the rest of us do too.

4) To learn how to personally prepare and to what extent. To figure out and learn from more experienced preppers on what I need to do and what I need to get ready for. To think about what I dont know about living in a world with no hot showers, caffe lattes, and the electricity that makes them possible. To explore alternatives, and think about the consequences of an extended time out and its possible duration. To learn new things. To develop additional useful skills and abilities that neighbors and communities would find useful.

5) To alert, help make aware and help prepare my current Silicon Valley, CA neighborhood and community, AFTER having done my internet homework, throughly. Then, if, by mid-April, they choose to ignore Y2K possibilities and preparation, seriously consider moving back to a smaller community. Move to a town of like-minded, artistic, musical, computer savvy, creative, pro-active, loving, caring and helping people, where I can make a difference, just like they do. People who are flexible, tolerant and able to change easily. People who, by nature, are optimists in the face of overwhelming fear and uncertain times. Sort of like the place I just left, only it is too close to greater Los Angeles and too vulnerable to forest fires.

6) To occasionally share a metaphysical perspective, and from personal experience, in counter-balance to a fundamentalist or radically negative perspective. We all have new things we can learn from one another.

7) To remember my spirit, follow my intuitions and gut-feelings and encourage others to remember their own, independent of their religious or philosophical persuasions, which are none of my business. To remain wisely positive, even if its REALLY hard to do. To breathe deeply and smell a fragrant flower when the FEAR feels overwhelming. To take my life back. To remember that fear destroys, and LOVE heals. To try, each day, to live in a way that the great master teachers taught is possible. Is it easy? No. Just looks like pretty soon, it will be an essential life skill. *Sigh* (Id much rather get off the planet, than go through this thing, but that option is the path of no-growth for the soul, so Ill choose to muddle through, and try to live each day, in the moment, with courage). Ill both pray and meditate for us all, and hop[e that others do too. Were going to need all the help we can receive.

Pretty radical agenda, huh?

Why are you so threatened by me, Jimmy and other trolls?

Why are you so threatened by what the posters here are discovering and sharing?

Is what we are uncovering something that your bosses dont want high- lighted? Is what ALL of us are doing and saying making a difference with the newsmedia and waking up this country at the personal, neighborhood, community, city, county, state, national and international levels ... FINALLY? Is the government and big business losing control of their Y2K disinformation machine? Have they forefitted the publics trust? Do they even care about the general public and all the children and old people unprepared for the Y2K uncertainty? Do they only listen to special interest groups and campaign contributors? Do they partisanly try to hi-jack a government no matter what kind of fallible, but suspect, human is President? Do they listen to the general public?

Whats IS your agenda, Jimmy?

Diane

See also, Tom Carys link to ZEN. . . AND THE ART OF DEBUNKERY:

http://waami.avmz.uni-wuppertal.de/www.eskimo.com/ ~billb/pathskep.html

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 04, 1999.

"Whats IS your agenda, Jimmy?"

As I've stated before:

1. To give lurkers a different POV so needless panic, hoarding, and financial collapse can be avoided

2. To lampoon pompous ass windbags and play with sincere doomers for my own amusement.

Some posts I try to do one or the other and some I try both. I'm doing well at number 2 and if I hadn't been sidetracked by my mindless but necessary Squire attack I would be doing better at number 1.

You are now off my _hit list for the second time. Try and stay off it.

Have a Nice Day

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@excite.com), January 04, 1999.

James - for once I am incredulous - you are one sad MF - grow up why don't you???

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 04, 1999.

James - for once I am incredulous - you are one sad MF - grow up why don't you???

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 04, 1999. Gotta tie up some loose ends now.

AH andy, stop giving investment advice without a liscense. SEC frowns on that stuff and someone may just turn you in.(not me, i can't be bothered reading that cut and past from North, the Big Fat Idiot's site.)

Whatever those misinformation rules are, I'm pretty sure everyone has figured out that they could be used against anyone whose opinion you didn't like so I think you're wasting your time. I don't care but I expect more from the self proclaimed geniuses of Y2K. I don't know what they are but obviously I don't need Cliff Notes to be a pain in the ass.

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@excite.com), January 04, 1999.