Just got a computer at Christmas time and someone gave me this web page on New Years Eve. This all is really quite an extreme veiw but I hope is'nt going to happen. If the power goes off, then that's going to effect the water supply ,.. that could mean my lawns are going to die in the middle of 2000. My roses need soaking. We have spent a fortune on our landscaping to say nothing of the sprinkler system. Would someone with a more moderate veiwpoint please tell me this is'nt so. I just don't want this to happen.

-- pattie (pattism@aol.com), January 03, 1999

Answers

This IS a joke, right?

MoVe Immediate

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), January 03, 1999.

MVI, a garden troll, perhaps? Roses are good eating ...


-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 03, 1999.

Pattie,...if you think this forum is extreme you have not visited some others on the internet. Do some reading at:

http://www.garynorth.com

There are others.

As far as the seriousness of the Y2K problem,...it's pretty bad. Do yourself a favor, keep reading, start to prepare for interruptions in essential goods and services, certainly beginning 1/1/2000, and perhaps before, at the end of 1999,...Read some,...do some deep breathing, read some more, buy and store food and water, read some more.

I'm not surprised there are people daily "just finding out"..."just waking up". Welcome aboard. As I tell my loved ones and friends,..."grab a helmet, and strap in."

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), January 03, 1999.

Rose hips are good to cultivate, BTW,...makes great tea,...great source of vitamin C. Save rainwater to keep the roses alive.

Hey,...even trolls can love flowers, can't they Yourdonites?

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), January 03, 1999.

You should have planted a prairie garden. Watering lawns is a waste of water. OK...it won't happen.

-- Anti-chainsaw (Tree@hugger.com), January 03, 1999.

pattism@aol.com is a valid email address. I pulled up her profile on AOL.

patti, if you are truly serious, I apologize (for myself as well as others). Email me at my stated address and I'll help any way I can.

One confusing item though. You list your husband's occupation as data center manager at a hospital on your profile. If this is true, hospitals must really be in bad shape OR hubby doesn't bring his work home.

MoVe Immediate

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), January 03, 1999.

Printing someone's personal profile makes you a piece of garbage. Knew it anyway. Now there' proof.

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@excite.com), January 03, 1999.

MVI, sadly I can attest that some hospitals don't have a clue.

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 03, 1999.

Reference Jimmy Bagga Donuts' post

The 25 Rules of Disinformation

Rule number 2:

Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the "How dare you!" gambit.

MoVe Immediate

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), January 03, 1999.

Rx Rx Rx 19990103

Now that I've picked myself off the floor from laughing ... I needed _that!! ( TY! ) ...

IMV, Pattie ( & clueless hubby! ):

Consider these Y2K facts:

. 36% of ( US ) hospitals __DO NOT HAVE A Y2K PLAN__!!

. 66% chance of "mission-critical system failure"!

( Per Tony Keyes, y2ktoday, in C-SPAN program, January 2, 1999! )

Check these URLs, Pattie:

http://www.y2ktoday.com/modules/home/default.asp?feature=true&id=623

or ... http://www.y2ktoday.com/modules/home/default.asp?feature=true&id=623

I don't intend to be anywhere in proxity to a hospital, clinic, ambulance, EMS vehivle, etc. between now and ... well who knows when! ( Anybody? )

Good luck, Pattie! Hope your "green thumb" skills transfer well to veggies!!

Regards, Bob Mangus Rx Rx Rx

-- Robert Mangus (rmangus@mail.netquest.com), January 03, 1999.

Rx Rx Rx 19990103 Oops ... again ... That URL should've been:

TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000)-Healthcare

Regards, Bob Mangus Rx Rx Rx

-- Robert Mangus (rmangus@mail.netquest.com), January 03, 1999.

Rx Rx Rx 19990103 One more time ... Oops ... again ... That URL should've been:

TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000)-Healthcare

( Arrghh! Omitted the "=" after href! ) Regards, Bob Mangus Rx Rx Rx

-- Robert Mangus (rmangus@mail.netquest.com), January 03, 1999.

Patti: Dig up your lawn and plant a vegetable garden. Dig up those roses and plant blackberry bushes. Cut down any tree that does not bear edible fruit and plant ones that do. Plant sunflowers for the seeds (high in protein and vitamins). Sorry about your sprinkler system, it isn't going to work and there's nothing anyone of us can do about it. So get out your lawn chairs and watch your vegetables grow.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 03, 1999.

I asked an honest question and you make fun of me. I have no idea what a troll is or what a garden variety of a troll would be. This was my first time to post on a web page and I guess I didn't ask the right question. Donna, I will try that other web page after the football game.

-- pattie (pattism@aol.com), January 03, 1999.

Pattie,

I understand thinking about your landscaping. It's obviously near and dear to your heart. And recently accomplished, right? No small feat, that.

I'll have to agree with the poster who said to do the research. Read everything you can dig up on the subject. Form your own opinion. On this forum, we're pretty much like-minded on the subject. Severity comes into debate alot, though.

There are lots of web pages and lots of forums. You will find your comfort zone. The comfort zone here is preparation, and there's lots of help in the archives to help you along those lines.

Good luck.

-- margie mason (mar3mike@aol.com), January 03, 1999.

Hello?? Pattie??? IT'S SO.

-- jhollander (hollander@ij.net), January 03, 1999.

patti, I only began to pay attention to y2k in Oct., of last year. I bought only one book on y2k and that was Yourdon's. That was my turning point, and once I typed y2k in search, my lilfe changed overnight.

But to back up a little, I was right in the planning stages of a large wildflower garden (uses little water--attracts birds and bees) and a small vegetable garden. Once I "got it," I put away my wildflower garden plans, my software landscaping plans, enlarged my vegetable garden plan, and started reading every post I could find on all web sites concerning y2k,stocking up, preparing for long term storage and getting my house and garden in order. I ordered some non-hybrid seeds, and I'll plant a few wild flowers, at the edge of the garden, but flowers aren't a priority at the moment. I learned a lot more about oxy-absorbers, buckets, lids, grains, and lamp wicks than I ever wanted to know, but better to be prepared and look like a fool, if little happens, than it do nothing and be a fool, if the SHTF.

No offense intended, but on a scale of 1 to10, wasting water soaking roses is -0.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), January 03, 1999.

Patti - Please excuse us if we seem a bit uptight. This forum have recently experienced an infestation of "trolls" (folks who post in such a way as to generate primarily very negative responses), causing many of us to be a bit, um, edgy, shall we say?

More importantly: there are now 362 days until 1/1/2000. Many of us have been aware of the seriousness of Year 2000 Problem since early 1998 or even earlier. We've watched the Powers That Be futz around and waste precious time and do nothing of value. It's now January 3, 1999, and there's not enough time for many, if not most organizations to fix their systems. This is a very bad situation. Again, please excuse us if we seem a bit on edge. Frankly, we are.

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.com), January 03, 1999.

Pattie, the reason lots of the posters seem surprised at your question, is that without water we are more concerned that our family members survive than our roses. To some people, their pets are just like members of their family. And to you, maybe your roses are very important. There WILL BE disruptions of many kinds. Some of those may be the loss of power and water. For how long? We wish we knew. A lot will depend on where you live and what kind of back-up plans are in place. PLEASE, make sure you and your family have plenty of drinking water available on December 31st of this year. After that, you can make plans for the flowers and lawn.

-- Crystal (not@available.now), January 03, 1999.

Pattie: I wasn't making fun of you, I am dead serious. You can't eat roses, you can't eat grass, and you can't eat from a tree that doesn't bear any fruit. If you are serious about getting prepared then you better get your butt in gear and start reading and preparing. Once the multitudes who finally get it start major runs on the stores, all you will be left with are your roses, lawn, and a sprinkler system that won't work. Those are the facts and yes it is so. P.S. If you read Gary North, he's even more caustic in his approach to Y2K, but he gives the facts and that's all any of us want.

-- Bardou (Bardou@baloney.com), January 03, 1999.

Hi Patty, It's tough being a newbie isn't it?? I know. I felt about 2 inches high for a while after posting here. But you know what? I've learned alot and I just ignore people that don 't have good manners. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Just lurk for while and read and figure out who you want to address, print off the articles you like and you will be just fine.

You sound like you have a large yard. Do you also have a garden? Take a deep breath and try again, ok?? The people here are just concerned that you start preparing as soon as possible. Happy New year

-- Moore Dinty moore (not@thistime.com), January 03, 1999.

Pattie, welcome to the wonderful world of the internet! In can be a very empowering experience, once you figure it out.

Sorry about some of the rude people here. They tend to be everywhere. Even at your local supermarket and garden supply store. Most of the folks here are pretty wonderful with VERY wide ranging views. But we do have one thing in common. We are all trying to figure out how extensive the Y2K problem is and what to do about it personally and/or in our communities.

The semi-consensus at this point in time is, that it does not look good at all! Many corporations, banks and our local, state and federal governments are tying to downplay the potential problems because they dont want to cause a nation-wide panic. They are running scared about bank runs, a stock market crash and the collapse of our economy. One can sympathize with their position, however much we disagree with their dis-information strategies. They may be learning to be somewhat more open with us. After all, our lives are impacted just as much as theirs.

Pattie, start learning as much a you can about what is variously called Y2K, the Year 2000 Millennium Bug or the 2000 Time Bomb, to understand the scope of the problem. Hint: its global, systemic and cant all be fixed in time. What does that mean? We each need to assess our lifestyles and prepare for an incredible uncertainty.

Imagine. If your local city government officials were to announce, Sorry, but were going to be without electricity for two weeks. What would you need to do to get ready, Pattie? Now suppose it was one month? How would you plan for that disruption? Then think about two months, six months, even a year without electricity? How would that change your life and the lives of your neighbors, the people living in your city, those in your state?

Remember. We do not KNOW what will happen, but we can prepare AS IF a major extended Hurricane Mitch was about to hit our whole country simultaneously and differently around our nation, not to mention the world. The difference is that Y2K will not cause the physical devastation. However, the main problem is unprepared and panicked people COULD cause a lot of destruction. Again, we dont know what will happen. We can only anticipate and look for ever changing indicators of how bad, or not so bad, the scope of the problem is.

Go start with the American Red Cross suggestions for preparing your home for Y2K at:

http:// www.redcross.org/disaster/safety/y2k.html

As Donna suggested, breathe deeply. As bardou suggested, consider planting edible foods in that lovely garden of yours. (Keep a few flowers too). Figure out how to grow that garden without the city water supply. There is so much to learn! Keep it simple ... WATER, Food, Heat, Shelter, Medicine, etc., etc.

Best of luck, Pattie. Most of us here will help you and other newcomers with the Y2K search for knowledge and understanding. Just ask by posting a question. We were all once new to Y2K too.

And, remember to smell the roses too!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), January 03, 1999.

Patti: If you insist on having flowers in your garden, at least plant flowers that you can eat like nasturtium. They taste just like watercress and they are very good for you. Go to your local nursery and they can direct you as to what flowers you can plant that you can eat (it all depends on where you live, climate, etc). Ruffled cabbage make great borders, lemon grass (excellent for making teas, will help with cold and flu symptoms). Learn about herbs and what to plant for common ailments. Flowers are nice to look at, but I'd rather plant something that I can use to benefit me and my family.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), January 03, 1999.

Patti: No insults are intended by the vast majority of participants here. Most of us do our best to help each other with this issue. Many of us suspected a troll (more frequent here recently -- as explained above) because the last thing most of us here are worried about is our roses.

However, the recent increased reporting on Y2K means we will see many newcomers to this forum that haven't spent very much time thinking about Y2K or its potential implications. Many of us who have been participating, preparing and trying to inform others for a long time now forget what it's like to be new at this issue.

(I'm going to proceed as if your request was NOT a troll - even if it was, others who are new to this issue may well benefit.)

If you are new to this issue, go out and buy the January 1999 issue of Vanity Fair magazine and read the well written, well researched article they presented. It will give you a good introduction to the problem and just why so many here take it so seriously.

There are a lot of other resources but frankly, you don't have time to read them all. You are getting a very, very late start. (It took me several months of research just to convince myself that 1. the problem is real, and 2. personal preparation is prudent.)

I'm afraid your life is about to receive a major shakeup. You may also begin to find that getting sufficient quantities of restful sleep becomes increasingly more difficult.

Or you could take the same approach that millions world-wide have already taken - ignore it and hope, no pray, that someone else will take care of your problems for you.

Should you decide to take action, you will find this forum a great resource. A word of advice though, you'll need to get a bit of a tough skin. Even some of the more helpful people here can be a bit cynical and caustic at times (me included). Most mean well but a few don't.

One other thing, you will not find total agreement here about exactly what Y2K will personally mean to you. There are a wide range of opinions. Personally, I find this aspect quite helpful.

Welcome to our nightmare.

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), January 03, 1999.

Hi Pattie,

just wanted to complement you on your bravery, both in reading the information on this forum and in actually posting to it! Believe it or not for every one person who posts something there may be upwards of 1000 or more who only read, and never work up the courage to ask their own questions, so good going!

Thankyou also for reminding some of us that we need to remember just how disjointed we felt when we first finally began to Get It...when it first started sinking in just what all of this implied.

Thanks again, Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), January 03, 1999.

Patti.

Consider yourself lucky you received the computer for x-mas and luckier still that you got the url for newyears. Some of the people on this forum are a-holes but most are terrific people. The problem is that sometimes, a newbie can't tell them apart. :-)

Get down to it pay attention. My favorite analogy says: If the people who prepare are right, they are ok. If the people who prepare are wrong, they are ok. If the people who don't prepare are right, they are ok. If the people who don't prepare are wrong, they are gone.

It really doesn't cost anything more, just sooner, and you learn an awful lot in the process that is good.

You must prepare but you can still plant the flowers with the veggies. I learned a long time ago, if you're down to your last dollar, you should spend .50 on flour and .50 on a flower. You must feed your mind as well as your body.

Me.

-- Floyd Baker (fbaker@wzrd.com), January 04, 1999.

"Just got a computer at Christmas time and someone gave me this web page"

I can't help thinking of the irony in this. On the one hand, she got the most wonderful gift for Christmas, a wide open door to the entire world to let friends and knowledge flooding in. On the other hand, Mr. Scrooge came in the door and is proposing to take her whole world away from her :-(

I knew this would be a bitter sweet Christmas season, being the last "normal one" for me and my family, but Patti's post made it clearer just how so, for so many people.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), January 04, 1999.

On a realistic note about your own preparations - with respect to the roses - look first please at your weather - North or South hemisphere - because the most likely failures willl occur nearest Jan and Feb of 2000. Services most likely failing for irregular periods in the first two-four weeks, and financial failures (billing, charges, deposits, transfers, gov taxes and checks, paychecks, etc) in the last two weeks of Jan and first two weeks of Feb.)

Most likely, most utility services are going to working by end of Feb, unless they never recover at all. So you probably will get water back - but worry about sewage, baths, drinking water, cooking, cleaning your hands, disinfecting and keeping healthy, washing clothes, etc. Then water your lawn - if you need to.

Last time I looked, my roses don't require much of anything through the winter.

Worry - as pointed out above - first about heat, light, food, and staying healthy. Then worry about your family's finances (jobs, bank accounts, bills, credit history, home mortgage) and longer term management.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), January 04, 1999.

pattie:

This forum is a place for the Y2K doomsday elite. The regulars here think they have all the answers and have closed their minds to any other points of view. This has driven most people with more moderate views and open minds away.

-former poster now part-time lurker

-- recovered yourdon forum addict (lurker@nowhere.us), January 04, 1999.

Recovered Yourdon Forum Addict:

I just spent 8 days away from the forum, away from any internet access and even the TV. I agree with you that once you leave all this behind, it's extremely easy to go back to "a normal life". I just spent the most wonderful 8 days I've had in a long time; skying frigid but wonderfuly snowy slopes in Quebec, and partying and eating wonderful holiday dishes 'til early hours with happy, relaxed and healthy family members.

All this wounderful time I've had did not erase the facts of what's happening though, alas.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), January 04, 1999.

Pattie, please forgive me for my rude post of above. The other posters have really made me feel badly for my treatment of a newbie. I have to say I admire you for posting on this forum so quickly after you starting to read everything. To be honest, I did not take your post seriously because I found it hard to believe that someone would have the guts to post after only lurking for a few days.

If you would like a more moderate, some would say optimistic, point of view, look at Ed Yardeni's site at http://www.yardeni.com/y2kbook.html

I hope you stick with the forum, if you have not already left, and that you find some helpful tips for your preparation.

Jeannie

-- jhollander (hollander@ij.net), January 04, 1999.

Pattie, I am working on a Y2K project for a very big organisation in South Africa. As you know South Africa went through a Government change a couple of years ago. Many Doom and Gloom people said buy candles, food, guns etc. as we are heading for civil war and power cuts etc. I am afraid to say that these people are still sitting with tons of stock (now old stock), candles, canned food, you name it they got it. I am not saying don't do anything but what if you tear down your rose bushes and lovely trees and grass and the "power/water failure you were expecting never happens. I think you know the answer to that!!!!. We as a company have tested many computers and systems and found some that need repair and others that roll over to 2000. We have to have faith in our World and its system and the people directly involved with Y2K and hope that the problems will be minor on the 1/1/2000. I believe there will be some problems its like anything new that is produced or manufactured and the year 2000 is exactly that. No one really knows what could happen but many are trying to rectify the problem as best as possible. Hope this helps you in some way. Wouldn't it be nice if the world could get together before 1/1/2000 for a trial run so that they can have enough time to fix the real problems.

I have given you my private E/Mail address if you wish to respond. Hopefully I don't get the abuse that some of these people are dishing out. Good Luck and do what you think is necessary after reading a little bit more on this subject. Try not to read the DOOOM and have an open mind and read some other articles. I found everything I need under WEBCRAWLER search "Y2K".

Cheers

Jill

-- Jill (jillos@hotmail.com), January 06, 1999.