What's really going to happen in small towns?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Curious as to what will really happen in the small towns, such as mine, if the lights go out. Lets assume I have a good supply of food, water, protection, etc. and the lights go out. Okay....after a few days, starving individuals will wander aimlessly around scrounging for food and shelter. What will happen to them? How can my family co-exist with even a few hundred starving desperate people? I feel like I'm in the house from "Night Of The Living Dead" and they will be clawing at the walls trying to get in.
Are we just kidding ourselves, and wasting a lot of money on preps? If even small towns are not safe....then what is? Isolation?
My town managment is ignorant to the potential disasters of y2k, and yes I've tried to educate some of them. To no avail. It's now too late to start crying "the sky is falling". Anyone who hasn't started preparing will find it harder to get some things already.
-- Rich (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 29, 1998
Civilized people have been getting together and dealing with the uncivilized actions of others for eons. It will be up to you and the other civil acting folks in your town to determine how to respond the the starving desperate people. It may even be up to *you* to collect your neighbors and organize something.
Why *me* you say. Because you *know*. Because you will have *known* for a long time. Being a GI (Get It, for the newbies) is more that just --- now I understand, I gotta go buy a bunch of stuff.
The single most serious element of preparation is MENTAL.
Lemme say that another way. If you are not mentally prepared all the stuff you can have will not likely do you much good.
You and others like you will deal with whatever situations arise when the time comes. Think it through NOW. ALL of it. From how can we as a community feed extra people all the way through the other grim end of the spectrum. Figure out how YOU can contribute.
I honestly believe *many* are going to die. The inverse of that is that *most* are going to live. In what manner are you going to live? There are some very serious spiritual questions to be answered here by each individual for him/her self.
There is no absolute security or safety. Not small towns, not big towns, Not isolation. The world you live *is* going to change. It is *not* going to get better. This does *not* mean the end of the world.
There is a huge difference in TEOTWAWKI and TEOTW.
Nobody ever said it would be easy. If they did they were either naive or plain lying. Just NEVER give up.
NEVER give up.
NEVER give up.
Enough rambling alredy!
NEVER give up. NEVER give up. (Sorry, just had a couple more in me that had to get out.)
-- Greybear (email@example.com), December 30, 1998.
greybear is right:
The single most serious element of preparation is MENTAL.
rich......don't give in on the mental level
"We have to assume that whatever happens we can survive and that survival is worthwhile. You can always change your mind later, after the fact."
you say you've talked to the "town management"......but have you talked to the guy who lives across the street? (and if you're uncomfortable exposing your preps....have you sent out anonymous letters to you neighbors giving a few facts you've gathered to support why you think they should "insure")
you can create a "buffer" around you that just might expand like a multi-level marketing scheme : )
-- andrea (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 30, 1998.
Rich, i have been saying all along that if you are in close proximity to unprepared people, you are in big trouble. It does no matter idf you are in NYC or if you are in Pukeweasel, Michigan. If you have prepared and the hundred people around you, in a small town, have not, thenyou are a target for them. And believe me, hungry people will have no respect for your property rights at all.
The only reall answer is to have them all prepare, which is nonsensical, they never will; or get to an isolated spot, which is what I have opted for.
If you have the only food in town and a couple of hundred others want it, what are you going to do? If you give it to them, then you are in the same shape they are two days later, starving.
Avoid that potential situation in the first place. Get out while you still have the chance.
Do you think for one minute that you could convince those people to prepare? Don't make me laugh. The overwhelming majority will never prepare.
Are you wasting money on preparations? If you remain in an area where you will be surrounded by unprepared people, and you can not defend your preparations, yes, you are wasting your money.
-- Paul Milne (email@example.com), December 30, 1998.
12 gauge shotgun, people in your home who know how to defend it, the necessary supplies to sustain you, and your mental capacity for wanting to surive. I suspect your neighbors will come to you first but you have to take a stand from the beginning. Your responsibility is to your family first. No doubt people will die from either violence or starvation. There's nothing we can do about that, because it will be a known fact, so numb yourself to it. Don't worry about all this until the time comes, because worrying doesn't change a thing.
-- bardou (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 30, 1998.
I have a hard time believing that people will die from stravation as a result of Y2K. My father died this year from cancer and in the last five days he could not take any water or food. It was a horrible way to die but my point is he lived for five days without water or food. I believe people can live a long time on bread and water. I may be different from others but my pantry has plenty of food that could last at least a month without any stockpiles. So on Jan 3, people won't be roaming for food, they'll be preparing their own meals at home. And hopefully some will be trying to help others in a time of need.
But then again I don't believe TEOTWAWKI. There may be isolated "storms" but not a major meltdown.
-- Maria (email@example.com), December 30, 1998.
as far as mental preparation goes, both Greybear and Andrea are absolutely right - things *are* going to change, and you need to organize with those around you rather than either depending on some nonfunctional government agency, or (just as improbably) attempting to go it alone.
For those of us coming from a Christian perspective, one excellent source is the Joseph Project 2000 in Atlanta,
JP2K is good for both encouragement and ideas.
look around, even in a small town you're most likely NOT the only one preparing...network - especially through you local church - and see who you can find to work with.
-- Arlin H. Adams (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 30, 1998.
They may be small towns, but in terms of being connected into the global life support systems they are not much different than big cities. Get out now. Don't prepare for y2k, prepare for big hit long term post y2k. There is a difference.
-- Mitchell Barnes (email@example.com), December 30, 1998.
Excellent comments, one and all. Rich, any municipality that issues bonds needs to align their ducks right quick. You may want make sure they are aware of this:
"Local governments must disclose efforts to solve year-2000 problem THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Fearing widespread disruptions in government services, U.S. accounting-rule makers are requiring state and local governments to disclose what they are doing to fix year 2000 computer problems in their annual financial statements......"
and Paul, don't you go dissing Pukeweasel, MI. It's a nice little place, especially in grunion season.
-- Lewis (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 30, 1998.
Attitude is everything. Combined with physical, emotional, mental and spiritual preparation.
IF your rural, sub-urban or urban local community WILL NOT, in any way shape or form, get it then perhaps it IS time to move to someplace that does -- before April, 1999. Paul Milne, and others may prefer a remote and isolated bunker. Their choice. To each, his or her own.
Personally, Ill choose a prepared community, pulling together in shared events of mutual crisis, every time.
Diane *Create Community, Prepare 2 Share, Be Y2K Aware*
-- Diane J. Squire (email@example.com), December 30, 1998.
If your small town is like my nearby small town (we're actually 16 miles 'way out in the sticks), most everybody in town has a relative or two who lives out of town.....grandma & gramps still have the farm, hosting holidays and vacations; or weird uncle Louie, who never made a profit, still has the two hogs and a cow...you get the picture. Locally, the biggest DWGI argument we hear is "God will take care of us" -- as if God was already paying mortgages and buying bicycles for the kids at Christmas...But this comes from folks who "know" that granny and gramps have "all that empty space" at the old home place.
My sincere condolences to Troll Maria on your recent loss.
It is good to keep in mind, though, that an individual suffering a terminal illness is not up roaming around -- they are more likely laying quietly, passing in and out of consciousness, barely sustaining the energies of life.
As one who has "fasted" (gone without food) for up to 14 days, I can assure you that a person CAN live for quite a while without food. Of course, I was doing it by choice, with full awareness that lots of goodies were readily available -- no worry, concern, or panic about my situation, although there were periods of hunger that were quite powerful!
More detrimental would be going without water -- I can imagine people drinking from any available source after a brief time, including rivers, standing ponds, toilet bowls, rain puddles -- and the risk of severe life-threatening diarrheal illnesses could become a major problem.....
-- Anita Evangelista (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 30, 1998.
The small town that you live in must be light years different than mine. (Small town Nebraska population 300) Most of the townspeople are DGI's or DWGI's including my wife. I don't see that as a big problem. 80%-95% of the local folks in town and the surrounding rural area are hardworking, independent, reliable, give you the shirt off their back type of people.
There are thousands of bushels of corn, wheat, and soybeans in grain bins all over the countryside. There are thousands of cattle, hogs, sheep, chickens, wild game including deer, quail, turkey, pheasant, rabbits ect..., and the guns and ammo for hunting. People have wood heat and old lanterns that have been handed down but still work. There are old windpowered windmills in the pastures for the livestock that would provide all the water needed for the community. Many have deep rootcellers filled with canned goods.
But most important we all know each other. We go to church togather, our kids attend school K-12 togather, we go to our kids sports and other activites togather, we are on the volunteer fire department, the local booster club, the area drama group, the local golf club, we put on softball tournements at our town ball field, we all help put on an annual town celebration, street dances, ect...
I think that the answer is to build relationships with your neighbors and townspeople. Even with one year left there is still time. Get to know your neighbor, help your neighbor with some project, have fun with your neighbor, do some volunteer work in the community.
The more you give the more you get in return. You can learn new skills,(carpentry-Habitat for Humanity) meet new people, feel part of something bigger than your self. You can also make tremendous networking connections doing volunteer work.You will find out that most people are reliable and dependable when push comes to shove.
Rich, don't be discouraged or fearful if your local people DGI. You have time to be a real force in your area. Get out and do some good, join in some local volunteer efforts, get people working together. This will be great prep for whats comming.
People working together is the answer!
-- TJ (email@example.com), December 30, 1998.
There are several 100,000's bushels of grain, 1000's of dairy cows with 1000's of tons of byproduct, etc. within ten miles of my little village.
-- fly . (.@...), December 30, 1998.
Know whether the dairy farmers are aware? 1000s of dairy cows and no electricity is no joke! (milking machines)
-- Maria (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 30, 1998.
Maria: How many people are food stamp receipients in your neighborhood? How often does your local grocery stock restock the shelves? Why are churches and other organizations always asking for food for the hungry? You may have the money to stock you pantry, but there are thousands out there that live from pay check to pay check with little left over to make it to the next. We all are sitting in front of computers whose value would fill a pantry for 3 years. So is easy for anyone of us to say that it is easy for everyone else don't get caught up in that game, because the poor know how to survive and manipulate others to get what they need. It will be an interesting test when it all comes to a head.
-- bardou (email@example.com), December 31, 1998.
I live with my husband and our 4 year old daughter in a highly populated suburb of Dallas. I don't believe you have to run away to the country to be safe, and I *do* believe Y2K will be MORE than just a bump in the road. There is a 4500 acre ranch for sale south of Hico, TX that would be the PERFECT Y2K getaway, but I currently don't have $3 million to buy it. So you do the best with what you've got. I'd lay money down that not one soul in my entire subdivision is preparing for Y2K. But I am not too worried about it. We own two weapons, ammo, and a great educaion on how and when to use them (husband is former Army--11 years--and champion marksman--we have had actual drills and play "what if" games all the time). We are making the absolute most of our space in our 1800 square foot home. This spring I am tilling up a large portion of our backyard for a garden and harvesting all the plums off the plum tree for plum jelly. We are using a spare bedroom as our "pantry" and have plenty of heating fuel (actually the heat in the summer, if the electricity is still not on, will be a bigger problem here...whew!) This is just a partial list of the things we have done. I feel confident we will survive. I just wish the rest of my family (bunch of die-hard DGI's) would get with it and take this more seriously.
BTW, Anita, just finished reading "Live Without Electricity--and Like It"....VERY good! I didn't know there was a difference between indoor and outdoor kerosene lanterns before I read your book! Great information!
-- Quietly Preparing (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 31, 1998.
Rich, here's what I've come up with.
I live in a 3000 pop town which is a combo golf/lake resort. About half the pop is retired (largely military) with money to burn. The other half are commuting stiffs such as myself - a large lake separates us from a 750k pop metro area.
No self-sufficiency in this town: no topsoil PERIOD to grow things in; what cows we have are decor, not livestock; no income that doesn't get to us via govt. mainframes or having to work in "town".
In the adjacent, small, less prosperous town, I spent long hours trying to convince the mayor that Y2K was a problem. I finally did, so it can be done - you'll just go crazy doing it. He immediately blew it off, though...bummer.
So, like you, I wander the desert wondering how on earth to get these people aware and preparing for Y2K. I keep a non-stop finger on the pulse (where ARE all these cliches coming from? Y2K alerting has taught me to speak in parable, and I can draw analogies on a dime) of American awareness, and it looks like all alerting attempts done from Jan 10 on will probably hit home.
Knowing, or at least hoping for this, I wrote a short letter to our local little paper, citing and including Koskinen's then-infamous (now practically blase) speech that discusses the taking of private resources. Amazingly, they printed the letter, and I'd submitted it within three hours of the deadline. I was sick to write it: as a single mother, I dreaded my daughter being known as the kid of that "Y2K Whacko". You don't know how astonished I was when the next issue contained another letter about Y2K, giving out the standard advice!
All my family & friends that I've pestered called to point out that I wasn't the only nut in town. Then I got a phone call from an absentee property owner wanting to help promote community awareness! The point being, you may not be the only nut, but you can be the first nut to get the awareness thing going, if you force yourself to do it.
Now I'm committed. In a week I'm speaking to the Rotary Club, and I am armed to the teeth with govt leaks(?) to back me up, plus the Vanity Fair article, some correspondence from our Energy Council, etc. etc. On January 17, the other two nuts and myself are holding a town meeting, in a city facility, BYOB. Sure, I'm petrified. I hate this. But you can't not do it. And it's not too late.
I am so looking forward to the day when I don't have to scour the 'net looking for corroboration on Y2K. My boss probably will (unknowingly) be too.
If you'd like me to email the letters we got published to you, let me know.
NEVER GIVE UP. Even if you'd rather drive off a cliff than mention this monster one more time. Hang out here - check out other people's alerting attempts.
Yes, we are far safer in a small town. I'm sick with fear for those in the cities that CAN'T escape. We're lucky, Rich.
Chin up! Do what you know is right!
-- Lisa Bucher (email@example.com), December 31, 1998.