OK, here it goes: We get to see many movies on TV during Christmas. And most of these movies are repeats from previous years, but they are movies we don't mind to watch them over and over again. Well, while I was watching the Superstation Channel, I saw (again) most of "Mr. Destiny," a movie from 1990 with James Belushi, Michael Caine and Linda Hamilton. There's this scene in the movie where an employee goes on the roof of an office building in order to comit suicide. When his boss shows up and tries to convince him not to do it, guess what line this desperate guy uses: "Don't come any closer, or I'll jump!" Sounds familiar? Could it be that James Cameron liked this movie and also because his ex-wife played in it? Or is it just a coincidence? As Niles would probably try to convince me again :)

-- Dan Draghici (ddraghic@sprint.ca), December 25, 1998

Answers

Mr. Draghici,

Actually, I have another explanation. Could it POSSIBLY be that "Titanic" (1997) was unoriginal, contrived, or used cliched bits that other films and stories have used time and time again? Sort of like the plot itself (poor boy and rich girl like each other, rich girl's parents don't like poor boy, rich girl runs away from mean fiance with poor boy in spite of parents). Plenty of oldies songs use the same "plot" (wait - can a song have a plot?). Well, I don't want to argue. I'll agree to disagree.

Niles

Tarrytown, NY

-- Niles M. Gregory (foo@bar.com), December 26, 1998.

Niles,

I agree that "Titanic" used clichees from other movies or songs. That was exactly my point. But this does not diminish, in my opinion, the value of this movie. In fact, with or without Academy Awards, it will always remain a special movie for me. In terms of originality, think of a "Lego" game. You can make wonders from the same unoriginal pieces. It's how you mix the ingredients and not as much the ingredients themselves. Of course, we'll agree to disagree. De gustibus non disputandum!

-- Dan Draghici (ddraghic@sprint.ca), December 26, 1998.

Another example is the fact that 'Titanic' was basically a remake of 'A Night to Remember' plus the love story of Jack and Rose. In ANTR, we see Mr. Andrews by the fireplace, and in Titanic we see that same scene with Jack and Rose running through it. Once again, as Dan said, this does not change what I think of Titanic at all. It's a great movie and I like to compare differences and similarities between this and A Night to Remember. I have noticed though that lately on drama t.v. there has been a lot of dialogue containing the phrase 'Promise me that...' so and so..and 'Never let go'. And these programs aren't trying to make fun, the're actually serious about the stuff they say. Oh well, it's fun to see things like that on t.v. It reminds me of my favorite movie. :-)

-- Kelly (foo@bar.com), December 26, 1998.

Dan, Niles, Could it be that every movie is a repeat of another (ie action flicks boy meets girl, fall in love while trying to rescue her, in the end they get together and save the day like in Terminater and Arrmogeded) Please if you try you can always find similarieties between movies. Titanic and Romeo and Juliet. It's a classic just with a twist in Titanics case R&J are on Titanic and R doesnt kill herself when she realizes that J is dead....though she thought about it in Titanic (she layed down and didn't move when she first saw the boat). This is a very common line for jumpers to use in movies so can't we just leave it at that?

-- Miranda Swearingen (Kylen1@hotmail.com), December 29, 1998.

Just to repeat myself from a much earlier post:

Titanic: "You unimaginable bastard!"

Poseidon Adventure: "You irresponsible bastard!"

Titanic: "Close the watertight doors!"

Poseidon Adventure: "Close all watertight doors!"

Titanic: "Don't look down." (down)

Poseidon Adventure: "Don't look down." (up)

James Cameron: 4 syllables.

Irwin Allen: 4 syllables.

R.M.S. Titanic: 4 funnels, 3 screws. Maiden voyage. Sinks upright.

S.S. Poseidon (Queen Mary): 3 funnels, 4 screws. Final voyage. Sinks upside down.

Titanic: "Ahhhhhh....."

Poseidon Adventure: "Ahhhhhh....."

My conclusion: Cameron must have seen and loved "Poseidon Adventure". Titanic is his homage to it! It's a topsy-turvy world we live in when such blatant plagarism is allowed to go forward unobstructed!

-- Dalton (foo@bar.com), December 29, 1998.

Mr. Draghici,

I agree that legos are (were) fun to play with, but they're not exactly art. I wouldn't want to see a film based entirely on legos, and a film entirely based out of homage to another isn't what I'd consider a good (great) movie. I've never really considered legos that wonderous, anyway.

Kelly,

I don't see how a "great" movie can be one that basically steals SPECIFICS from others. "Great" movies should be original, not unoriginal. Sure, the story of the RMS Titanic is historical, but an ORIGINAL film could still be made about the subject. I personally feel that James Cameron (who's just plain MEAN) failed to make a convincing, good, or even well-though-out movie when he made "Titanic" (1997).

Miranda,

Yes, it's true that there are only 36 "basic plots," but that does not mean that SPECIFICS (such as the lacing of the corset, as per "Gone With The Wind") should be the same as other movies. Action shoot-em-ups also aren't GOOD movies, in my opinion. Also, the mere fact that "Titanic" has a love story about a "forbidden love" doesn't mean it has ANYTHING to do with "Romeo and Juliet." In "Romeo and Juliet," the two main characters were members of opposing houses, Montague and Capulet, BOTH wealthy. Their parents are opposed to their relationship because their houses are feuding. This is NOTHING like "Titanic." In the end, "Titanic" cannot be a "classic," because it just hasn't been around long enough. "Romeo and Juliet," on the other hand, is almost 400 years old, and is a TRUE classic.

Dalton,

There are only 3 syllables in "James Cameron": one in the first word, and two in the second.

I really didn't want to get into a big arguement. Sorry. :)

Niles

Tarrytown, NY

-- Niles M. Gregory (foo@bar.com), December 30, 1998.

Although English is not my first language, isn't it Ca-me-ron? Three syllables and not two?

-- Dan Draghici (ddraghic@sprint.ca), December 30, 1998.

Thanks for pointing out that most important discrepancy, Niles, out of the many you could have chosen. I bet you pronounce the "t" in "often", don't you? Actually, I was even more wrong than you thought, as Irwin's last name, while spelled "Allen" is actually pronounced "throat warbler mangrove". 6 syllables. No, wait....

-- Dalton (foo@bar.com), December 30, 1998.

Dalton, you crack me right up...

-- Gilded Age Junkie (gildedagejunkie@yahoo.com), December 30, 1998.

I know, off the top of my head, of two lines used in other Titanic movies. The announcing of dinner as a "calvery charge" was either in the 1953 "Titanic" (Thelma Ritter) or "S.O.S Titanic" (Cloris Leachman ). I think it was the latter. There was also the line from the band member when playing on deck that "they don't listen at dinner either" which was from ANTR, I believe. There were also some close ones: In ANTR, Smith to Andrews.. "but she can't sink, she's unsinkable!". Andrews to Smith.."She can't float!". This is close to: Ismay: "...but this ship can't sink!" and Andrew's replay "She's made of iron, sir. I assure you she can, and will. 'Tis a mathematical certainty!" from Titanic 1997. I think that is one of the best lines in the entire film and would not doubt if there was an exchange between Andrews and Ismay, that it may have gone something like that. Of course, we will never know, but I can just see Thomas Andrews saying to Bruce Ismay, in his own way: Listen, you arrogant s.o.b, this thing is going down and there is not one damned thing you can do about it!

Happy New Year to All,

Peter

-- Peter Nivling (pcnivling@capecod.net), December 30, 1998.

Bottom line: I don't mind if Titanic used lines from other movies. It was a great movie. The object of making a film is to make it enjoyable for the audience. So what if it used lines from other films? I liked the film and found that it touched my heart in more ways than one. That's all I need to be satisfied - and I don't need to critize it for the things it left out or put in. But not minding the lines is just my opinion - let's leave it at that. It was a great movie and it reached it's goal - making the film enjoyable to the audience. Well, it did for me.

-- Kelly (foo@bar.com), December 30, 1998.

Mr. Dragnici,

Interesting point. But you don't say "Hel-lo, Mr. Cam-er-on." You'd say, "Hel-lo, Mr. Camruhn [spelled phoenetically]." Hey: did you ever notice that the word "phoenetically" isn't spelled phoenetically?

Dalton,

No, I don't say "of-ten." It's weird when people do that.

Peter,

You mean CAVALRY charge? "Calvery" isn't a word. :) Heh - sorry for the correction. Happy New Year to you, too.

Kelly,

Fine, I thought "Titanic" (1997) was somewhat enjoyable too, but that doesn't make it a GREAT or GOOD movie. GOOD movies should be ORIGINAL and ARTISTIC, not rehashed garbage. It's like those paintings of wide-eyed Mexican kids: I might think they're silly, cute, and even a bit enjoyable. But that doesn't make them GREAT ART. A Hershey bar might be really enjoyable to eat, but that doesn't make it GREAT cuisine. Certainly, paintings of wide-eyed Mexican kids and Hershey bars aren't worth awards. Think about it. :)

Happy New Year to all! :)

Niles

Tarrytown, NY

-- Niles M. Gregory (foo@bar.com), December 31, 1998.

Just curious, Niles, as to how you pronounce the word "camera"? Is it two or three syllables in pedantese? I really must know the proper way! haha

BTW: I KNOW pedantese is not a real word, and you won't find it in your OED. So there's no need to respond on that point.

-- Dalton (foo@bar.com), December 31, 1998.

Dalton,

What's an OED? If pedantese isn't a word (I believe you), what did you mean by it?

Niles

Tarrytown, NY

PS: I pronounce "camera" as "cam-ra." What did you mean by "the proper way?" Do you mean like George's "proper?" I don't buy that stuff...

-- Niles M. Gregory (foo@bar.com), December 31, 1998.

Hello Kelly:

Right you are! I saw that after I hit the submit button and wished, once again, that I had proofread before I hit that irrevocable button! Maybe we could start our own language! We both have a jump on the "c" area (I was going to say "c" section, but figured I had better rephrase that)with my "calvery" and your "critize" :>). I also have determined after reading my response, that Mr. Andrews must have had a side job at ESPN as I said he was offering a "replay"! That's what I get for typing late and suffering fom terminal "fat finger syndrome". At any rate, I think they used the lines in several movies because it is, after all, a historical event and over the years, certain phrases have been identified with the event. Whether these words were actually spoken is anyone's guess. I would guess that phrases such as those have become associated with the Titanic story, much as the often quoted question by Captain Smith to Mr. Moody ("What was that, Mr. Moody?"). Well, we have about 3 minutes left in the year here so I will say Happy New Year once again to all.

Regards, Peter

-- Peter Nivling (pcnivling@capecod.net), December 31, 1998.

Well, that's it! I apologize Kelly! The previous was supposed to be for Niles! So Niles, have a happy new year and I am going to go outside now and run over my keyboard with my snowblower! I guess my wife is right, I should reserve a room at the Rubber Ramada!

HNY Peter

-- Peter Nivling (pcnivling@capecod.net), January 01, 1999.

Hahaha. I'm going to assume that Niles is imperturbable, rather than the less flattering characteristic I've considered him displaying here. Therefore he's no fun for me, and I'll quit this thread. I'd only like to say that I agree with almost everything he posted here. "Titanic" is a mean accomplishment by a plagiarizing second-rate filmmaker who's last name, when spoken with an articulation not possible with teeth clenched and a sneer, is 3 syllables.

-- Dalton (foo@bar.com), January 01, 1999.

Peter,

You helped prove my point about "Titanic" (1997) being unoriginal. Thank you very much. Too bad you're off to the "Rubber Ramada" (the nickname's hillarious!). Happy New Year to you, too.

Dalton,

I looked up the word "imperturbable," and Webster's says "marked by extreme calm, impassivity, and steadiness." I don't really think I'm "imperturbable," but whatever. No need to be sarcastic in that last bit, though. I never sneered at Mr. Cameron's name. It IS two syllables, though. In English, we don't say "Cam-er-a." We say "cam- ra." The same, Cameron isn't "Cam-er-on," it's "Cam-ruhn." Well, whatever. I'm not sure if you're being nice or not. See ya round.

Niles

Tarrytown, NY

-- Niles M. Gregory (foo@bar.com), January 01, 1999.

Niles,

I just checked my Canadian dictionary. As Cameron was born in Canada, the pronounciation of his name should follow the standards of this dictionary. Words like "camera" and "Camelot" have 3 syllables. I never pronounce myself "cam-ruh" but rather "cam-e-ra." I used to have a teacher in Ottawa with the same name Cameron and he has confirmed me that his last name (thus also James Cameron's) has indeed 3 syllables. Anyway, I thing we ought to drop this discussion.

-- Dan Draghici (ddraghic@sprint.ca), January 01, 1999.

O.K. I want you all to go back and read the previous posts and ask yourself what you were all thinking! If you really have the time to argue over the pronunciation and number of syllables in names or words, you have too much time on your hands.

As far as Titanic being a great movie, I agree. However that is my opinion, and I understand that others may not agree with it. I also think Hershey's chocolate is a great cuisine, but again, that is my opinion. I would take hershey's chocolate and Titanic over the finest restaurant in Paris or a broadway show. That is what I would consider an enjoyable evening, but again, all opinion.

Well, I wish you all a Happy and Prosperous New Year!

-- Misty (HiRver@concentric.net), January 01, 1999.

Go Misty! My idea of a perfect evening as well. :-) Happy New Year everyone! 1999. Can you believe it? Everyone ready for Y2K?

-- Kelly (foo@bar.com), January 01, 1999.

I saw on TV tonight how a restaurant here in Ottawa celebrated the New Year's Eve with a "Titanic Dinner." A lady (dressed like Rose in the movie, when she gets out of the car to board on Titanic) was singing MHGO. I thought this part was really cheesy, I would have rather listened to Celine Dion on radio than spoil this song with an amateur (lousy) voice. But that's my opinion...

-- Dan Draghici (ddraghic@sprint.ca), January 02, 1999.

Mr. Draghici,

Well, Canadians have different accents than Americans do. In America, "camera" is "cam-ruh." Who cares? It doesn't matter. Can't we all just get along? :)

Misty,

You're right. Looking back, that was pretty stupid. I'm dropping it here. Although, I don't know about FRENCH food (I don't like the French), but there are plenty of things better than Hershey's chocolate. Did you know Hershey's contains wax?

Kelly,

You're nuts. Just kidding! :)

Mr. Draghici,

Yep, that's cheesy. But I think Celine Dion is pretty cheesy too. In fact, I'd go so far as to say she sucks. No offence to you at all, but that's my opinion. Over the past year, the world heard "My Heart Will Go On" (a REALLY cheesy song) FAR too many times. Again, just my opinion.

Niles

Tarrytown, NY

-- Niles M. Gregory (foo@bar.com), January 02, 1999.

I used French simply because I have had French food, when I was in Paris a couple years ago. I liked it, but I would rather have chocolate any day. Yes, I know Hershey's chocolate has wax, but that is okay with me. As long as it is non-toxic. If I am being honest, though, I would rather have Ghiradelli Chocolate than Hersheys! VERY YUMMY!!!!!!!

By The Way, Niles, how were your finals???

-- Misty (hiRver@concentric.net), January 02, 1999.

Misty,

Yeah, Ghiradelli is better than Hershey's. But Godiva is better than Ghiradelli. And Perugina is better than Godiva. You see? Even when it comes to chocolates, Hershey's is not the "finest" cuisine.

Niles

Tarrytown, NY

-- Niles M. Gregory (foo@bar.com), January 03, 1999.

Hershey's may not be the finest to you or to I, but to someone out there, it is! I would even say that Ghiradelli's is better than Godiva or Perugina. You may not have thought too highly of the movie Titanic, and you would be in the ranks of many people (like my husband) who simply thought it was like any other average movie. However, you have to take into consideration what was going on in the individual's environment also. There were people who, because of their environment, were able to relate to this movie differently than everyone else. I know Dan Draghici was one of them, having spoken to him for over a year now. This movie is special to many different people for many different reasons. To try and group them all together is absolutely impossible.

Back to the chocolate analogy, a person may consider Hershey's chocolate to be superior because it was a gift from that first love on a first date. The memories of that day are more powerful and more special than the chocolate itself, but without the chocolate, you don't get the full effect of the memories.

-- Misty (HiRver@concentric.net), January 04, 1999.

Misty,

Woah! I thought the argument was over. I was just trying to talk about chocolate! Still, it doesn't matter; I think "good" (or fine) is at least a SLIGHTLY objective word. And "Titanic," even though it may have AFFECTED some people, wasn't necessarily a "good," "great," or "fine" movie. It only won awards because the Academy was losing POPULARITY among younger viewers and the public at large. So, the academy fed off the hype and the public's bad taste and had "Titanic" win. Okay, enough of this. I'm not going to argue about this anymore. I only wanted to talk about chocolate! :)

Niles

Tarrytown, NY

-- Niles M. Gregory (foo@bar.com), January 04, 1999.

Well, I guess now you can see that when you bring chocolate into the conversation, it really gets intense! ;)

(Still think Titanic was a great movie, always will!!!!!!)

-- Misty (HiRver@concentric.net), January 05, 1999.

(actually, camera has three syllables--it's in the dictionary)

Someone once said that amateurs imitate others but Writers steal {written to apply to literature, but applicable here, too. ;-)}

-- Nonnie Parker (x96smock@wmich.edu), April 19, 1999.

Just came across this bulletin board and have been in stitches laughing at the arguments over pronunciation, semantics etc. As a Limey I hope you don't mind me gatecrashing the party and adding my two penneth (2 pennies worth - in other words, small contribution with little actual value!). Cameron is most definitely 3 syllables, just like camera Calvery is a real word as it is the place where Christ was crucified dear Kelly, very limiting view that Movies are simply to entertain. We would have to consider the definition of 'entertainment' because in the case of films like Sophie's Choice or Schindler's List I feel challenged, traumatised and possibly 'enjoy' a cathartic release at the end but 'entertained'? I don't know. It's like watching King Lear. I find the play frustrating, the consequences inevitable and devastating, and overall for me it is more about teaching humanity a history lesson than a piece of entertainment.

Titanic is an average picture, with a recycled plot, the only original bit being the death of Jack which I found unexpected in an American movie where test audience screenings are usually deemed more important than artistic integrity. The SFX are first rate, the score is moving, the performances are OK, the direction is slick. It's OK, but hell it's no classic.

-- Norm (norm@bigbearz.com), April 27, 2002.