All of you newbie's and oldie's, have you taken a look at what is happening? When Randy panic'd (-5sp),as he found out just what MIGHT happen on/around 2000, he wrote like he was attacking everyone... What Happens when a problem comes up that wakes up a crowd of DGI's? Will they react as Randy did, with hate and panic, because he did not know which way to turn first?

If anyone has had any experience of Christmas shopping for the most popular toy. People do not stop and think about how they act, what they say, or who they punch in the nose...

Y2K panic COULD end up the same way. I know that sometimes it feels like we are spinning our wheels(talking to everyone about Y2K), but we need to keep it up. And if you see someone crying out for help, give it freely, as someday you may be the one crying(because you forgot something).

I know that I am new to everyone out there, but I have been lurking for quite sometime. Have used many, many, many suggestions given and as sorry that I have not contributed up to this time... You all feel like friends and Uncle DeeDah, It's too bad that we probably will never have that promised 'get-together'.

Everyone keep up the good work, this is the BEST forum I have found, with the best people keeping it going....

Carlie

-- Carlie (carlie_scott@yahoo.com), December 16, 1998

Answers

Carlie,

Thanks for joining in! :-)

Re: panic -- Yes, that's the nature of panic.

I share the opinion of those who think it'd be a LOT better for the U.S. government to be honest about Y2K now, which would probably provoke a lot of little panics now, than to try to keep the lid on as long as possible, which would lead to a lot of BIG panics later.

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), December 16, 1998.

Carlie - I agree with you, please join in more:)

No Spam,

I'm disappointed with you, panicking is clearly off topic here, please take your panicky thoughts to

alt.year2000.panic.ornot

you will feel at home there, panic is elevated to high art...

regards, Andy

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 16, 1998.

Welcome Carlie. You are right about people not stopping to think before they act sometimes. In very stressful situations, they generally do not sit down calmly and rationally decide to Panic, they simply react... and with urgency. How folks react once the Y2K light bulb goes on is one the the biggest wild cards in the deck, and has the potential to in some ways determine the degree of what actually ends up happening.

If you would like to tell the forum a bit about yourself, consider posting to the What about you thread (third incarnation) - It is active now under Recent Answers.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), December 16, 1998.

Fear and Panic, from a Cognitive Science viewpoint

Fear is the underlying motivational force driving the behavior of most people in response to the y2k-situation. Even the desire to profit or prepare for continued well-being is a desire to avoid the fear of the unknown. Fear itself is based on insufficiency and uncertainty (insufficiency of knowledge). The fear of insufficiency is second only to the fear of disease, injury, or destruction, so most of the simple-minded behavior can be attributed to motivations that trace back to the primal fear of death, whether by starvation, disease, or violence. The imagination, fed by uncertain prospects and left to magnify, can fuel the flames of fear, and seems to be what leads to the panic response. The panic response is part of a chain reaction that goes like: computers are going down, the infrastructure is going down, there won't be enough water, food, gas, and money, liberties will be lost, armed gangs will attack, and innocent people will die.

Those who are overly attached to the material world are the most likely to panic in the face of shortages.

Tolerance of free speech is essential and corrective reply comments along with disregarding by non-response will tend to dissipate the occasional flare-ups of online hostility. Participants will tend to adjust and adapt their activity to meet their concept of others' expectations. However, there are examples of both inappropriate posts as well as misplaced criticism, in most all threads of this discussion board. With enough AI a discussion-browsing interface can be developed that allows selective comment view filtering options.

-- Jon (jonmiles@pacbell.net), December 16, 1998.

Carlie,

Great post!

Mike

P.S. how the heck to you spell panic'd anyway? =====================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), December 16, 1998.

Just wait till the UMC housewives go for their next "beauty" appointment and pick up a thin January "Vanity Fair" and read the "Y2K Nightmare" article. Or Joe middle executive gets the Business Week with the "Y2K is Worse than We Thought" article. Get your rice and beans now folks.

-- Bill (bill@microsoft.com), December 16, 1998.

Carlie, good discussion thread. You have put your finger on the heart of the Y2k problem in bringing up the fear and panic that takes place in connection with it. This is the 'people' part of the y2k problem: when faced with adversity and hardship, shortage and outage, does savage competition for scarce resources and the Law of the Jungle dominate the conduct of people and lead to a violent feudal social environment, or will there prevail a more peaceful, informed, mature, cooperative and mutually beneficial relationship. The irony is that any anarchist trend would be met with a freedom-reducing government clampdown response, which is what the anarchist is afraid of. The 'people' part of the y2k problem is the one which tends to be the most feared, because man's self-brutality (not to mention earth-brutality) has historically been known to be very unpleasant. It's not that easy to get a large number of people to live in peace and it seems like there will always be conflict and trouble-makers. Can everybody grow up and act like responsible, civilized, and informed citizens, in the midst of difficulty, or do we have endless factions, sects, and splinter groups, all fighting and at odds over beliefs and laws. The post-y2k political boundaries are likely to have a finer subdivision than the present ones as power is redistributed with more granularity and greater cellularity, such as gated communities.

In the short term is the fear and panic, but for the most part these little explosions of awareness are spread out in a scattered way over time. When it does get really mainstream, front and center, top story coverage, the antidote for fear and panic is served up: information. In this sense No Spam's comment is precisely relevant to Y2k, panic and fear is secondary to ignorance and the best thing to do to improve our situation is getting this thing (y2k-awareness) grok'd (i.e. loosely: grasped) by those around us. You don't want to be the only person around who has a comfortable life, the differential is likely to draw violence. Remoteness and isolation bring vulnerability. Safety in numbers.

The Get-Its see urgent need for greater media coverage and administrative openness and honesty and want more candid and realistic disclosures by the government of what is happening; why is not the President leading the way on this (or is this being naove). At issue is when should we be hearing about the y2k-problem and what purpose is served by propagating or suppressing the information. Apparently, the top dog Mr. Prez, is either not smart enough to realize the importance of full and accurate disclosure (a fact which is abundantly clear in other contexts) or has fallen for the advice to play the no news is good news soft-pedaling and avoiding panic- triggers type of gambit as seen in the movies. If he is just playing back a script, it would be coming from the multinational shadow government. Most likely they do plan to ramp up the attention over the next year, but they may have a particular release schedule in mind. I suppose the EO's are representing the government position. However, the urgency for large-scale individual and group preparation is building, and any country can benefit from the leader ---the point man--- taking this issue out of denial and giving it the consideration and recognition it has coming.

The topic of y2k becomes more visible after the 1/1/99 critical date. Surprise: y2k is referring to 1999 and 2000, and the y2k problems start ramping up in 16 days! It's time now for the administration to level with those it represents and come out with pro-preparation position statements and actions, including contingency planning and triage protocol.

The Y2k problem and effect info is slowly making its way into the mainstream, and will dominate eventually, but as content in the major media, Y2k appears substantially undercovered from the standpoint of most participants in this discussion. Time will reverse the situation, and it has been getting noticeably more ink in the press recently.

-- Jon (jonmiles@pacbell.net), December 16, 1998.

Thank all of you for your comments. As everyone has been saying, that we must prepare for the worst and pray for the best.

All we have to fear is fear itself....

-- Carlie (carlie_scott@yahoo.com), December 17, 1998.

PUKE

-- (@ .com), December 17, 1998.

"All we have to fear is fear itself." Now there is an original thought. I fear hunger, pain, looters, no toilet paper, hungry neighbors and dumb statements.

-- (@ .com), December 17, 1998.

Mike, "P.S. how the heck to you spell panic'd anyway?"

It's panicked. ( I often leave MSWord on to run my posts through the spell checker ;) )

Jon, good explanation of fear. In psychology, one of the explanations is given as the "fight or flight" reflex. More precisely the adrenaline rush one gets when experiencing fear. This reflex when it occurs at a time when one does not have the knowledge of what to do on the spot, right away, will cause panic.

"Fight or flight" is an instinctive reflex necessary for survival. It shows itself in a myriad of situations; from the basic "flight" of running away from a charging bear, to the "fight" of a man or woman protecting his/her child from imminent danger or perceived danger; to the more complex and vague "flight" reaction of avoiding responsibilities, and the "fight" reaction of rushing through a deadline.

It's more complicated than that, but I just wanted to give the gist of it to expand on Jon's explanation.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 17, 1998.

Will they react as Randy did, with hate and panic, because he did not know which way to turn first?

I just think he's like that anyway.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), December 17, 1998.

Good topic for discussion!

I have always told my kids as long as I can remember, "never panic, whatever happens, never panic. Stay calm and think your way thru whats facing you. If you panic, your only gonna get yourself or others hurt." Thats what we're doing here on this forum, we're helping each other THINK! Together we can work our way thru this mess when it hits. Well, at least those of us who are human and have brains enough to think.

By the way, I too am somewhat of a newby to this site. I've been visiting and reading all of the topics for sometime, but haven't commented before. I believe its always wise to run some recon before forging straight into anything.

Will

-- Will (parlay2@hotmail.com), December 17, 1998.

Richard Dale & others, I am NOT like that anyway. :) I was drinking beer that day, hadn't read the subject in 3-4 months, & yes, I did kinda panic. But to ease your minds, may I say, it's been 3 days, & I have already read thru about 100 posts & newsarticles on many URLs & links. I have accessed the problem will probably be somewhere in the middle range of the 2 extremes, IMHO. I also plan on starting with my next check to spend $100 a month to stockpile goods for myself & my mom, and other family members. This may or may not be "enough", but it's what I CAN do, presently(only work part-time). Now, please stop judging me from a drunken posts, ok? I will be prepared when the time comes. And I will help others best I can. I'm getting the word out at work amongst employees & customers. And I ain't no TROLL. I'm also used to the IRC forum,which are in real-time more so than message boards, that have a delay, & are spread out over many posts. Hey, I've survived 3 cars being totaled, 3 divorces, over 40 jobs in 17 years, local & county jails, and I will survive "YAW" too...hehe. I'm a Suthna'h. A country boy can survive. Anyone read any good Piers Anthony lately? Thank you. :)

-- Randy (flembob@usa.net), December 17, 1998.

Randy you asshole I and a few others saw through you from day one - do you think we are all thick on this forum? Go ahead, have your jollies, you are a sad MF.

To the rest of you - wise up.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), December 18, 1998.

Chris: . ( I often leave MSWord on to run my posts through the spell checker ;) )

Do you cut and paste? Or is there a way that MSWORD will work with the posting software........

CR

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 18, 1998.

Ref: Panicking - Last time the government panicked, it was the days then weeks, then month, then years after Pearl Harbor. FDR imprisoned tens of thousands of American citizens and legal Japanese imigrants because they chose to born to the wrong (Asian) parents.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), December 20, 1998.