"It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination."

and,

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."

Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), December 11, 1998

Answers

I don't suppose the revolutionary method is spelled out anywhere? We should go by the books to throw the book at the dithering Neros.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 11, 1998.

Leska,

I seem to remember something about throwing tea into the harbor and refusal to pay a stamp tax or something?

Come to think of it, unless there's been a major book burning that I missed, there's probably lots of documentation around. . .

I'm sure that Chuck the Night Driver has access to a library with all the details. It's that big building on the square. . .

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), December 11, 1998.

I'm about to fire off this e-mail to as many newsmedia Letters To The Editor that I can identify. Suggest you each do the same. As I collect the links, Ill post em. -- Diane

A pox on both your houses! -- William Shakespeare

I am throughly disgusted with the continuing hot pants politics being practiced in Washington D.C. Every single one of you, Republicans and Democrats, Congress People and Senators alike, are selling America down the drain with this impeachment nonsense.

You are way off topic!! The Y2K, year 2000 millennium bug consequences and potential repercussions, that may well trigger national and global States of Emergency just next year, are far more important! We DEMAND that you wake up and prepare a nation. Help us all get ready for the biggest uncertainty to hit humankind in millennia!! If it was my choice, Id FIRE the lot of you for gross mismanagement, of this country and, by default, of this world. Shame on you!

Pay attention to what is important! So, what. Clinton LIED about an extra-marital affair. Minus 10 points for integrity and honesty. Hopefully, he has learned a great lesson about being truthful. And will start being so, right now.

For the rest of you, minus 100 points. You are all LYING to your constituencies, and the people who elected you, by remaining silent. You are all sent to your chairs, facing a blank capitol corner, until you can come to your senses. You work for We The People, not yourselves. We, ALL the people, in this country and around the planet need you to re-focus your gutter-like attention, this minute.

This is a Y2K wake up call!! Ring-g-g-g. The San Francisco Blackout is just a foretaste of things to come it you dont listen, and take immediate action.

Im exceptionally annoyed with all of you! Get real. Otherwise, Y2K will fire all of you, only the rest of us will be too busy trying to survive, because of your complete lack of foresight!

Diane J. Squire Silicon Valley, California *Create Community, Prepare To Share, Be Y2K Aware*

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 11, 1998.

Diane is going to let Y2K do the firing for us.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 11, 1998.

My sense of humor doesn't come across real well in print, but I'll try anyway...ahem!

Diane, tell 'em they're gonna die and throw in a few buttheads while your at it. :)

MVI

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), December 11, 1998.

I kinda think we ought to stock up on maps, shovels and ropes as the impeachment mechanisms for the whole miserable bunch.

Just wait until about mid-January, when the general populace is really frustrated. Hand out maps showing the locations of all the underground bunkers where the politcos are spending Y2K, along with shovels and ropes. The masses will go forth, begin digging and seek to implement "impeachment".

Crude, cynical, politically incorrect, possibly humourous method to solve the problem.

Check six! WW

-- wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), December 11, 1998.

"I'm sure that Chuck the Night Driver has access to a library with all the details. It's that big building on the square. . ."

Hardliner, you have the Library of Congress at your fingertips.

Library of Congress

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 11, 1998.

MVI, I try, however it's not always easy to be a lady. Butt I must say, their heads are stuck, up, somewhere in a dark, stinky place. -- Diane

Anyone know where I find a the e-mail addresses to "Our" Congress members?

Letters To The Editor:

San Jose Mercury News -- Letters To The Editor at letters@sjmercury.com http://www5.mercurycenter.com/resources/feedback/

San Francisco Examiner & San Francisco Chronicle http://www.sfgate.com/select.feedback.html Letters to the Editor (Examiner) Letters to the Editor (Chronicle)

Los Angeles Times http://www.latimes.com/HOME/TALK/ Letters to the Editor If you want to make a comment about our Main or Metro news coverage and have it considered for publication in the newspaper as a letter to the editor, send it to letters@latimes.com. (For the Orange County edition only, ocletters@latimes.com.) You must include your full name, street address and daytime phone number. Letters should be no more than 250 words.

New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/subscribe/help/letters.html To e-mail a letter to the editor, write to letters@nytimes.com. Letters to the Times should only be sent to the Times, and not to other publications. We do not publish open letters or third-party letters. When writing be certain to include your name, address and a daytime phone number. We do not set a limit to the length of letters, but we advise the shorter the better.

The Washington Post Letters to the Editor Respond to a Post news story, an editorial or another reader's letter by using our exclusive e-mail Letters to the Editor form. Editorial Policy: Letters must be exclusive to The Washington Post, and must include the writer's home address and home and business telephone numbers. Because of space limitations, those published are subject to abridgment. Although we are unable to acknowledge those letters we cannot publish, we appreciate the interest and value the views of those who take the time to send us their comments. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/edit/letters/letterform.htm

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 11, 1998.

You can probably find it on the congress' website.

U.S. Legislative Branch

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 11, 1998.

Thanks Chris.

The White House http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/Mail/html/Mail_President.html

Overview: This World-Wide Web form provides a graphical user interface for sending email to the White House. Please take a moment to answer the following questions. We require certain information in order to process your message; other fields are optional, as indicated, but will expedite handling and provide useful information about the customers of this service.

Note: This is an HTML form. You must have a browser that supports forms in order to use it. If you do not see text editing areas below, your browser does not support forms. In that case, send mail directly to president@whitehouse.gov instead.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 11, 1998.

Congressional leadership is determined to impeach the President. This is not in the best interests of our country. We face real economic and foreign policy challenges. A besieged President and distracted Congress will not address these issues.

I'm participating in an Internet campaign to tell our representatives that we've had enough. The President should receive censure from the Congress and we should all move on. It's time for the public interest to come first, and for our representatives to show real leadership.

Will you help? Just go to http://www.moveon.org to sign the petition and take action. It only takes a minute. And then if you send a message on to your friends and colleagues, the ball will keep rolling. It's up to us.

Please feel free to forward this message to anyone you think would be interested. Don't send this message indiscriminately. Spam hurts the campaign.

-- S.Rathers (srathers@hotmail.com), December 11, 1998.

Rathers,

You and those who believe as you do are sadly deluded.

There is absolutely nothing that will be better for this country or the people who live here if Clinton remains in office than it would be if he is impeached, tried, and punished by removal from office.

None of the problems that this country currently faces even approach that of having him remain in office.

He should be locked in a closet with Gary North!

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), December 11, 1998.

"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery." --Thomas Jefferson

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), December 11, 1998.

Hardliner,

It doesn't matter that Clinton is a Y2K wimp. What matters is this idiot Congress spending all their time next year focusing on Clinton when they need to focus on Y2K.

It possibly won't matter, in the short-term, but e-mailing 'em is something I, and the rest of us, can do before next Thursday, then ignore the lot of them if they go through with this. They may well be toast! Burnt toast.

Chris, thanks for the link to Congress, E-Mail Addresses for Congress are at http://lcweb.loc.gov/global/legislative/email.html -- problem is, they don't make it easy to do a "global" send.

Seems like a good site for individual contact is CitizenDirect (ISI) A direct, unfiltered, confidential link to your elected officials. To use this service, you must first register with the service. Using this secure Internet connection, you can send your questions and opinions directly to their offices. http://www.citizendirect.net/

And...

Mr. Smith E-Mails Washington (InfoSearch) A forms-based e-mail directory for U.S. Senators and House Members. Also includes links to "Mr. Smith E-Mails the Media," a "graphical interface to let you send a 'Letter to the Editor' to a variety of publications." http:// www.mrsmith.com/

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 11, 1998.

1) Hardliner and Deedah you are both correct in that his continued presence will only help continue the conspiracy of silent, smiling, misleading, people. All dedicated to the re-invention of the US of A as Something not quite Democratic, not quite willing to let anyone make a "mistake" or take a risk.

2) Diane et al. The Impeachment timetable is fairly short, with the Imnpeachment vote set for before Thursday Evening, I believe. The Trial timetable, while it has not been determined, will, in all probability, be equally swift. I would expect a final decision before 1 Feb 1999. The senate will first try to sidestep the smelly fish, and then will try to rid itself of the problem as fast as possible. I don't think they will even give lip-service to appearing "seemly" (pun WHOLY unintentional)

On a more pesimistic note, I suspect that, barring some REALLY bad/good evidence from the Justice Dept (which has been indicatred but not presented) we will have the same President, saying the same things on 1 April 1999 as we do today.

Chuck

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 11, 1998.

PS Hardliner:

My own copy of the relevent histories has the details, but, since it wsa all done under Tyle my keys are sealed.............

CR

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 11, 1998.

Strong words Uncle from Jefferson the oppressor, Jefferson the slave owner. Hypocrisy stretches deep in the sands of time on the shores of the American landscape.

Cheers

-M.C.

-- MC Davey (UFOskyBlue@aol.com), December 12, 1998.

The government of the United States does indeed have an instrument that can bring about its termination. It is called a Constiutional Convention. If two more states vote in favor of calling a CC then we will have one. And the Constiution will be rewritten. Wonder what will come out of that?

BTW - the Constiution is really a very open document. If we passed an amendment that set the United States up as Hell, ruled by the Anti-Pope - it would be perfectly constiutional. Look at the Prohibition Amendment - not desired by anyone but a handful of extremists - it passed.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), December 12, 1998.

MC

You are correct sir! Many of the Founding Fathers owned slaves, and Jefferson was one of Virginia's largest slave owners. That did not stop him from attacking it and debating its role in American life. He understood economics and saw that he could not compete with his contemporaries if he freed his slaves alone. He also knew that the southern states would never join the Union if it was forbidden by the Constitution. Slavery began in America as a punishment for crimminals, slavery also proved difficult to abolish. You may have heard about a little skirmish fought over the issue. ;)

Does the fact that he owned slaves make his statements about its evils hypocritical? Yes. But that does not change the fact that he was one of the Enlightenment's greatest thinkers.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), December 12, 1998.

interesting discussion,

Gotta admit I agree with you Deedah - though I don't recall seeing anyone post another bit written by Jefferson, Adams (no relation) and Franklin, to wit:

"that whenever any government becomes destructive of these ends it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it"...

That being said, one needs to also recall that reaching agreement on a national scale in this country is almost impossible in any case...too many diverse subcultures, which means if the system crashes and burns, there wont *be* one country in the current federal sense...and are folks really ready to go back to something along the lines of the Articles of Confederation?

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), December 12, 1998.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Constitutional Convention was held in secret! Could you imagine something like that being attempted today? I dont think so.

My ideal for Y2K would be for it to cause just enough problems to get people upset at the way our government is run, and then to see them change it at the ballot box. This would depend on the bump in the road scenario happening. Anything too much worse, and folks will beg for the government to step in and take care of them. This is what I think of as the Depression scenario. It will be interesting to see how a technologically crippled bureaucracy will deal with a huge influx of cries for help.

I sure hope we can come out the other side of this mess a better nation.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), December 12, 1998.

Well, Deedah my friend, I don't really suppose the only alternatives are TEOTWAWKI and BITR. Perhaps we would have a result whereby the govt. was limited to providing information and whatever services it could, but without the means to commit interference in peoples private matters. In that case, the whistle might be worth the penny.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), December 13, 1998.

There is a great e-mail address for writing your congressman. CONGRESS.ORG/ELECMAIL.HTML All you do is type in your zip code and it automatically sets everything up for you. I've sent a couple of messages about "Know Your Customer" and my views on impeachment.

-- note taker (note.taker@whocares.com), December 14, 1998.

# # # 19981214 * CORRECTION *

note taker takes sloppy notes ( LOL ) ... That URL should be:

< http://legislators.com/congressorg2/elecmail.html >

Regards, Bob Mangus # # #

-- Robert Mangus (rmangus@mail.netquest.com), December 14, 1998.

Nothing like a shrill woman to whip ME into action.

<> -Hardliner

Now that's funny!! Couldn't let it slip through.

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@worldnet.att.net), December 15, 1998.

He should be locked in a closet with Gary North! - Hardliner

funny no?

Whatever

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@worldnet.att.net), December 15, 1998.