When I was 16 I was propelled head-first through the windshield of a speeding car, smashing the bottom part of my face and almost killing me. While I was unconscious and the medics were prying apart the wreck, I had the first part of what is now (not then!) the common-place "near death experience". I was up there, looking down, and I felt FINE.

I wonder how many people on this forum, whether from religious or any other perspective, really KNOW that we are not our bodies ? Isn't all the y2k fear really a displacement of our real fear, just fear of death plain and simple ? It's gonna come anyway. How many know that a life is just a day in the greater life of the soul ?

Here's a "sniglet" for the y2k dialectology thread: RIP

-RC

-- run way cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), December 09, 1998

Answers

Aaaacckkies, RC, your post & subject pushed all my buttons, wheeeheee!
Control, control, deep breath, ok.
Check out this wonderful URL:

http://www.Near-Death.com/

Something for everybody in there. Happy discovering & thinking.

RC, death, before, during, the moment of, and afterwards, is our specialty, our niche, our job, our expertise.

Enough for now, restraint, another deep breath. BTW, the *breath* is the cord that ties the soul to the body.

Thanks for bring this up!
Ashton & Leska in Cascadia, hospice caregivers, who KNOW we are not our bodies, and have no fear of death, but would prefer to avoid Y2K-related suffering and torture

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 09, 1998.

The question is will there be life after y2k. Or what sort of life will it be. Your experience seems to be common with many I've read about, no personal one though.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), December 09, 1998.

Relax, Leska, relax!!! Cleansing breaths!

Runway, if we were talking instant annihilation here, your point would be ... well, more to the point.

However, (I think this is what Leska might be thinking about), Y2K will NOT be instant death. No painless mortal coil shuffling, no sirree!

Y2K will bring global hunger, violence and terror. Many will die quickly, but many, many more will die slowly and in fear. Starvation/dehydration may not be the most painful way to die, but if you have to watch your children doing it at the same time...

I think the fear we all hold in our hearts is not of death or the 'meeting of the Maker', but of not dying. Sometimes, death would be kind.

Leska, you are my hero. Thank you for the things you do.

-- Arewyn (nordic@northnet.net), December 09, 1998.

Arewyn, Lamaze posting help, thanks! ;-D

Exactly, unless Y2K unleashes the nuclear "mistakes," massive terrorism, or biblical armageddon, we will probably not be lucky enough to simply pass on easily. Times like this, find myself wishing a Rapture was immediately real, and nigh.

I have read that the most painfully stressful tragedy is to witness the suffering death of a child. I pray this does not happen to anybody. Preparation of both individuals and communities is a necessity. We come to Y2K from a natural disaster emergency prep (originally gearing up for earthquakes) background, and believe it is incumbent and prudent upon all to be prepared.

I believe Runway has a valid point here. If the crash is all-encompassing and simultaneous, during the cold cruel depths of Winter, it is possible that many people will die by the end of the first week. If Infomagic is correct, won't 4 Billion people perish in short order? Then death would have to be dealt with on a large scale, and I think people are afraid of such a macabre horror. It would not be a sanitary, odorless, disease-less, corruptless process. The modern machine has enabled society to whisk death out of sight and mind to untouchable obscurity. Y2K will undo the magical vanishing.

A long endless painful death by freezing starving wandering, subjected to torture, mob rape, twisted abuses, and witnessing the vicious collapse of society -- this fear is blackly submerged in the undercurrent of many Y2K dreads. Degradation of the body, mind, integrity, sanity, personality energy -- the true fear is of these buffeting the flame of the soul.

Ashton & Leska in Cascadia, who find new unexpected subconscious fears when interacting with each new patient

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 09, 1998.

In the past eleven years of metaphysical study, after being hugged by an angel, my life took an unexpected turn into greater understanding and KNOWING, we are not alone. We are All One.

There is something much greater and grander at work here, on our planet, than we have any conception of. Direct, personal experience has taught me that. Ive had so many near life experiences, that my death holds very concern for me. In fact, it would be much easier, and a blessing. The gift of life, of breathing day-to-day, the wonder of it all, is what claims my immediate attention.

For which ever side of the great beyond, we each find ourselves experiencing, come Y2K, to know that we have really lived to the best of our abilities, and to the outer limits of our soul, in this world, is what is of importance. Walk tall and in the moment.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 09, 1998.

Read Stephen King's "The Stand" (the unabridged version). There are lots of unpleasant ways to die, & our guy Stevie outlines several dozen of them. Some parts of that book still give me the shivers. You don't fear death? What about all the nasty things that can happen immediately before...?

-- Ben Dair (not@aol.com), December 09, 1998.

I lost a son last year.

My whole life and perspective of living and dying will never be the same. I've never been afraid of dying, but like most the prospect of suffering, physically or mentally, frightens me. Fear of fear.

What keeps one going? I've asked myself a thousand times in the last year. All my life the single most motivating factor, that thing which drags me to my feet and propels me forward when all seems hopeless and lost is anger.

Anger and indignation directed toward my sons doctor for his incompetence. Infuriated with a legal system bought and paid for by powerful lobbies which prohibit me from seeking and attaining justice simply because my son was an adult. Furious at ex-employers and their incompetence, greed, voracity, and contempt for the law. Hostile and enraged with our government, the news media, and captains of industry for permitting this greed and incompetance to jeopardize our very existance.

Just like the movie Network. "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore".

It's not about living or dying to me anymore. It's about winning.

MVI

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), December 09, 1998.

MVI, you have my heart-wrenched sympathy for your loss.

Winning? Winning what? Please explain.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 09, 1998.

Leska, overcoming the odds of a deck stacked against you.

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), December 09, 1998.

MVI, yes! Right, that is your birthright, all the power of the universe to you! May your triumph bring you enduring strength, peace, and the will to extend your abilities to help others struggling.

MVI, here's a toast to your winning over + over + over.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 09, 1998.

MVI,

A proverb from "Hardliner's Book of Life":

You cannot successfully fight City Hall; the best you can do is to shit on the steps on your way out of town.

I understand your anger and your anguish, your pain and your outrage. All that I can offer by way of comfort is the assurance that the seeds of the system's destruction are inherent in its design. I believe that you, unlike most in our society's history, will see the end of that "system".

What would seem to make the most sense at this point, would be to survive the transition and be a part of the construction of a way of life that will preclude the wrongs and injustices of the old. . .

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), December 09, 1998.

Ben,

Dont read Stephen King. Its not worth draining your energy over. Lots of wonderful things can happen. They did , when I could have died, many times.

Feed a more positive thought flow, and your experience will change. Your fears will change too.

Diane

(MVI, I know you have good reason to hug your anger, I AM sorry. But I really do suggest you let it go. You are not helping your son, and you are hurting yourself. It may sound cruel, but your son is fine. Its you, here, now, that needs all the energy of love and caring and nurturing that you can allow yourself to receive.)

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 09, 1998.

LOL! Thanks Hardliner, that is a definite keeper. Now if we could just get everybody in the country organized, we may be able to trap the rats in Washington with a strategically placed 'ring around the rosie'.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), December 09, 1998.

Leska...Thanks for the words of encouragement!

Diane...Bless your pacific and benevolent heart. But, the moment I let go, will be the moment I give up.

Hardliner...LOL! I would like to not only shit on the steps, but own the manufacturing and distrubtion rights to the popsicle sticks needed to scrape the effluent from the soles of their expensive Italian loafers. Then after selling (for an exorbitant amount) the rights to obtain said popsicle sticks, I would render stiff finds for the mishandling and improper disposal of hazardous wastes.

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), December 09, 1998.

To RC, Leska, MVI, and others who are interested in the afterlife, here are three book recommendations.

Saved By the Light

Dannion Brinkley has written this book about his experience of dying and recovering two times. He died for twenty-eight minutes in 1975 from a lightening electrocution (he woke up in the morgue), and again a few years later, and in this book he reveals what he saw in his two visits to the afterlife, and how it transformed his life, including the psychic gifts he gained and the numerous accurate predictions he has made.

He said the best thing is to help other people, especially when they are near their death. Before the experience he was a commando and mercenary, now he just wants to help others.

Here is the book on Amazon, with reviews
(Customer Review Rating average is 4.5 out of 5, with 4 reviews)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0061008893/o/qid=91323 9130/sr=2-1/002-4880609-1391461

Talking to Heaven : A Medium's Message of Life After Death
by James Van Praagh

This is a good book on the subject of the Spirit World: The author communicates with spirits which are not incarnate and describes this world. He tells of each person having several spirit guides, which are of three types: expert guides, guides which are specifically for assisting you on your life mission, and guides which are ancestrally related.

Webpage with Book description and Reviews
(Customer Review rating is 4.5 out of 5, with 81 reviews)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0525942688/qid=9132379 30/sr=1-1/002-4880609-1391461

The Heart's Code : Tapping the Wisdom and Power of Our Heart Energy
by Paul Pearsall, Lauren Marino (Editor), Linda G. S. Russek

Another good book on the importance of the Heart. The author describes his experience of heart transplant and the research he did including how transplant recipients acquire personality characteristics of the organ donor.

Weblisting on Amazon with reviews (3.0 avg. of 3 reviews)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767900774/qid=9132402 99/sr=1-1/002-4880609s-1391461

-- Jon (jonmiles@pacbell.net), December 09, 1998.

Good choices Jon.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 09, 1998.

Mr. Runway Cat-

I too, have had this type of experience. Having studied metaphysics and practiced certain techniques for 25+ years, I KNOW that they ocurr.... However, there is no evidence or experience that shows me anything about the 'after-death' existence. Just because we discover that we are able to separate from our physical shell doesn't mean that this ocurrs after death. Nor does an experience with a departed soul prove this. Remember, the human mind is vast beyond our ability to fathom and it may easily construct any experience we can concieve of. A 'near-death' experience' is not a 'death experience'. Prove me wrong. :-)

Bertin

-- Bertin Opus (third@hotmail.com), December 09, 1998.

Regarding Dannion Brinkley: He'll be on Art Bell's Dreamland radio show, which airs this Sunday, 12/13/98. He has been on Art's show several times. (see www.artbell.com) Dannion has devoted his life to hospice work.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), December 10, 1998.

I find that additional reading material in one of three areas, depending upon your comfort level, is personally inspiring ... Angels, NDE Near Death Experience or Life After Death, and Past Life.

ANGELS

Due to personal and direct experience, one of my two favorites still remain...

Book of Angels : Reflections on Angels Past and Present and True Stories of How They Touch Our Lives and Angel Letters by Sophy Burnham

Book of Angels Book Description

"Charming, eclectic." ... A BOOK OF ANGELS tells not only the extraordinary true stories of present-day encounters with angels, but also traces the way people studied and communicated with them throughout history and in different cultures, quoting from poets, mystics, and saints. ... An instant bestseller when it was originally published, this beautiful volume tells not only the extraordinary true stories of the present-day encounters with angels, but also traces the understanding and study of angels throughout history and in different cultures. ... Presents modern-day true stories about angelic encounters while tracing the study of angel throughout history and in different cultures, offering insight into why and how they visit human beings. Reprint. ... Believed to be ministering spirits or divine messengers, angels are a part of every culture. From the earliest times, they have fascinated, enlightened, and inspired. ... From the Publisher -- Little did we know in 1990 when we published this book that it would ignite the angel craze that swept this country. Now, with over a million copies sold, A BOOK OF ANGELS continues to be the cornerstone book on the topic.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345380789/o/qid=913320603/sr= 2-3/002-8499567-7236610

Angel Letters Book Description "[A] PRETTY LITTLE BOOK ABOUT MIRACLES. . .Sometimes funny, sometimes reverent, sometimes inspirational." ... Sophy Burnham's name has become synonymous with angels. Her first book about the beautiful presence of celestial beings in human affairs, A Book of Angels, was embraced by readers across the country and ultimately soared onto the New York Times bestseller list. ... So beloved is A Book of Angels that it generated a great wave of heartfelt response. Hundreds of ordinary people have written to Sophy Burnham about their own encounters with heavenly beings. Now, in Angel Letters, Burnham shares some of their moving stories. These experiences of healing, rescue, warning, and comfort, of angelic blessings seen and unseen, will bring wonder, solace, and inspiration to anyone who welcomes a little angelic intervention in everyday life. ...

"Will make the reader stop and think--and believe in a better world." ... In these affecting letters, angels are revealed in many different ways. Ranging from the serene to the mysterious, from the sorrowful to the joyful, from the spiritual to the mundane, these letters share a simple, deeply felt sincerity--true testimony to the power and faith and the ongoing appeal of Sophy Burnham's work. A glorious sequel to A Book of Angels. ... Shares the experiences of individuals who believe that their lives have been affected by angelic encounters, including the story of an angel who folded clothing for a dying woman and another who changed a flat tire at a pivotal moment.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345378660/ref=sim_books/002- 8499567-7236610

NDE NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE or LIFE AFTER DEATH

Loosely under the NDE Near Death Experience topic, I was INCREDIBLY IMPRESSED with the original 1914 version of this book Letters From A Living Dead Man. It has recently been republished as...

Letters from the Light : An Afterlife Journal from the Self-Lighted World -- Elsa Barker, Katherine Hart (Editor); Hardcover

Synopsis

In 1914, former judge David Patterson Hatch transmitted these letters to Elsa Barker from "beyond the grave." Hatch's insights are exhilarating and inspiring, presented as a kind of "astral travelogue," which is more convincing than most of today's New Age channeling. ... This rediscovered spirituality classic is a haunting yet uplifting tale which will appeal to readers of Embraced by the Light and The Celestine Prophecy. Originally published in 1914, this is the story of a man who speaks from beyond the grave with a hopeful message of life and growth.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1885223080/o/qid=913320014/sr= 2-1/002-8499567-7236610

PAST LIFE

Since I also learned how to guide past life regressions, it is a particular topic of interest for me. This one book on the subject is guaranteed to get you thinking and wondering ...

Across Time and Death : A Mother's Search for Her Past Life Children by Jenny Cockell

Synopsis For as long as she could remember, Jenny Cockell had felt she had lived a former life as Mary Sutton. Finally, Jenny acted on her intense need to find her lost family. After years of painstaking searching, she finally reunited with family members from her previous lifetime. This is her startling, true story.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671889869/qid=913321108/sr=1- 1/002-8499567-7236610

Happy reading!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 10, 1998.