Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged

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What happened to the "Atlas Shrugged" thread? I've looked in every category and couldn't find it.

Just wanted to thank whoever started that thread. I wonder how come I hadn't heard of that author or book before.

I'm only a quarter into the book and I'm completely captivated. Rand's right about people. What a brilliant mind. I can comprehend her logic, philosophy and psychology and perceptions, but I couldn't come up with any of it (well maybe some of it) myself. Certainly not in such eloquent depth, yet simple and in your face in a way. Gosh I wish I could write like that *sigh*

The book even has some titillating romance :) But more importantly, it opens up one's eyes on the true nature of "life as we know it".

It's a must read. It should be in everyone's private book collection, next to the dictionary on the shelf.

Gotta go! Have to find out how that John Galt train line is going.

-- Crhis (catsy@pond.com), December 07, 1998

Answers

As big Ayn Rand fan, who has read Atlas Shrugged a couple of times, plus all kinds of other stuff of hers, I must caution: please do not take her stuff too seriously! I really don't want to say any more, so as not to spoil anything for you, but eventually, IMHO, you'll come to realize that the world and the people in it are not as one-dimensional as she portrays. That's all...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), December 07, 1998.

Advice well taken Pshannon. Like I said, I'm only 1/4 into the book and it's the first time I read anything of hers. I'm just captivated at the moment ;)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 07, 1998.

Glad to see you like the book, Chris. I'm quarter through my third reading. (if I'm right..you're about to get to the high point of the first part of the book. Things go downhill very fast from there, until...well, won't ruin it for you).

Yes, the characters are one-dimensional. I don't mind that. In fact, I've thought that if I ever met a real life equivalent of Dagny Taggart as she is portrayed in the book, I would find it almost impossible not to fall very seriously in love with her. What's wrong with being one-dimensional? (anyway, I think they're more 1.5-dimensional. Dagny has a slight hobby -Halley's music- and I can understand her work mania because I have that myself. There's a lot of me in Dagny, except of course that I haven't yet acquired an executive position that lets me work that hard.)

By the way, I'm also halfway through the fountainhead. IMVHO, it's nowhere near as good as Atlas Shrugged.

--Leo

-- Leo (leo_champion@hotmail.com), December 07, 1998.


One of the problems I have with Rands philosophy is that not everyone is perfectly capable of taking care of themselves under all circumstances. That, in turn implies one of three things - starving people - help organizations well funded by the good will of the people in general - or govt. funded aid. You get what you pay for - always - whether it is in taxes or it is in donations, or it is in bodies - all bills are always paid by someone.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), December 07, 1998.

um...Paul...if I understood what you said, why do you have a problem with "Rand's philosophy"? It's exactly the way it is. Most people in general do expect handouts of some form. Paid by taxes, charity, freebees somewhere/somehow, wellfare, bribes, bailouts. We're all guilty. Only problem for me is that I've never personaly met anyone perfectly capable of taking care of him/herself the way Rearden and Dagny are portrayed to be. It's a fiction novel. Ofcourse they're one-dimensional in the story. Could anyone you know have enough self-reliance and guts as building material for skeleton character such as them? Perhaps such people exist. Most of us just wish we were. That's the beauty of Rand's perspective she gives us. From true unwavering purpose and goal, focused righteous ambition, we can observe society.

Gees I'm ranting. And I'm still only 1/4 through the book.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 07, 1998.



The single most depressing piece of literature I've ever experienced. Rand drew me into her world & at the same time deeper into my own - my spirit slowly spiraled downward until ... the crash!

-- Bingo (howe9@pop.shentel.net), December 08, 1998.

Bingo- how in God's name can you find the book depressing??

Even in the darkest moments of the book, which I won't discuss because I don't want to ruin it for Chris, there is always hope. There are Dagny and Hank, standing up and doing what they believe in and keeping society going until the very end. There is Ragnar, beating the Peoples' States at their own game (direct force)- my kind of guy. There's Eddie, who does his job conscientiously and well even though it's becoming increasingly pointless to bother.

And against the highly negative backdrop, of people like Mouch and Larkin and James Taggart and all the other scumbags, against a backdrop that begins as grey decay and becomes black destruction, they stand out like beacons. Their goodness is a brilliant light visible BECAUSE of the darkness.

And when Dagny gets to a place that for Chris's sake I won't name or describe directly, but that everyone who's read the entire book will know what I'm talking about (sorry, Chris, but I don't want to ruin it for you! :) ), the feeling of purity is IMO brilliant.

As someone who's spent the last five years surrounded by student lefties and greens, who has been inunduated by society to virtually believe essentially what Scudder and the other scumbags think -that greed and money are evil and success is bad- that moment, the feeling I had then -and as I read the book in general- was..great. Light in darkness. This was a magnificient purity; a brilliant feeling. The complete opposite of depression.

Depression, people, is when you're surrounded by people who think that Mao and Marx were the ultimate unselfish people. Who think that capitalism is evil. To believe that wanting to be rich and successful was just plain greedy. To be inunduated by people who make you feel bad about everything you do, every cent that you spend, because it should have gone to charity. That is depressing.

Chris, how far through the book are you now? (I'm not going to refer directly to anything you're yet to read.. except to say one thing. EVERYTHING in the book has purpose. Pointless-sounding events -like that railroad worker Eddie likes to speak to- DO have logic. The electrostatic motor is more important than it looks. Francisco is NOT a metaphor or an anomaly. Try to figure out the question, Who Is John Galt, before you're told..I was kicking myself for not realising earlier ;) )

--Leo

-- Leo (leo_champion@hotmail.com), December 08, 1998.


Do any of you think Ayn Rand was psychic? I actually saw her on "The Phil Donohue Show"! For an all night, can't put the book down read, please get "We the Living" also by Ayn Rand.(about a society in total collapse) It'll give you goosebumps!!!!

-- S.Rathers (srathers@hotmail.com), December 08, 1998.

Do any of you think Ayn Rand was psychic? I actually saw her on "The Phil Donohue Show"! For another all night, can't put the book down read, please get "We the Living" also by Ayn Rand.(about a society in total collapse) It'll give you goosebumps!!!!

-- S.Rathers (srathers@hotmail.com), December 08, 1998.

Leo thanks for not giving away the book for me :)

I've just started chapter 7. I only read it for about 1/2 hour or less at night before turning off the lights, so I'm slow (every spare moments during the day I spend it on the net.)

Nothing is pointless events in this book to me Leo, every word she writes has a purpose, brilliant writer. About John Galt, my hunch at this time is that he's a legend, someone with a different past and meaning to each person who refers to him. Not a real person. I can't pinpoint what I'm thinking, it's just a hunch. But bite your tongue and don't tell me until I figure it out ;)

And I agree with you on capitalism. That's why I love this story so much ;)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 08, 1998.



S.Rathers, I have a feeling I'm going to be reading all of her books, heard only great reviews about all her books on this forum.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 08, 1998.

S.Rathers- psychic? How do you get that impression? (this is prob. going to be something highly visible that I am an utter moron in not seeing. I'm having one of those days.)

Chris- won't comment on what you said, just so I won't ruin it.. except that by `pointless' I meant metaphorical. Probably the best advice I can give for someone reading the book is to quote D'Anconia; "when something seems impossible, check your premises."

We The Living..must acquire that book. One book that I got halfway through and then effectively quit reading was The Fountainhead. The main character in that, Roark, is crazy. I know what Rand's saying, but Roark's actions are just so unbelieveably stupid for a clearly-intelligent man, that it makes the whole book seem absurd.

--Leo

-- Leo (leo_champion@hotmail.com), December 09, 1998.


"We the Living" and "Anthem" are both very good. The thing that she wrote that actually impressed me the most was an article titled "Philosophy: Who Needs It?" The premise was that we all live by a philosophy, most of us just don't know what our philosophy is. It remains unarticulated and therefore is subject to major contradictions. If we would each just take the time and effort to articulate our philosophies for ourselves, we would understand ourselves and our actions much better and probably be happier people.

Actually, now that I think about, I'm not sure if that was written by her or by Leonard Peikoff.

You might also enjoy:

The Fountainhead - A Parody

as well as

The Ayn Rand Random Quote Generator

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), December 09, 1998.


oooh! I clicked on random quotes and got this:

"Rationality is the recognition of the fact that existence exists, that nothing can alter the truth and nothing can take precedence over that act of perceiving it, which is thinking..."

This one should be the moto of this forum :)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 09, 1998.


I like that quote- it's good.

Oh, and that Fountainhead parody- it's very good ;) ("To show how far superior we are to the common people, I'm going to get into your house and rape you.")

-- Leo (leo_champion@hotmail.com), December 09, 1998.



"To show how far superior we are to the common people, I'm going to get into your house and rape you."

Allow me to rephrase it for this forum:

"To show how far superior we are to the common people, I'm going to get into your brain and give you a mind-f***"

shhhh...don't tell anyone I said that ;)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 09, 1998.


Don't quite get that..but it's 12:02 at night and I probably wouldn't get anything right now ;)

-- Leo (leo_champion@hotmail.com), December 10, 1998.

Well, it's probably because I wrote it past midnight myself. I was suffering from a bout of posteritis, which started to flare up after reading Lester's spew that infected my brain.

So, I didn't get the parody, instead a literal meaning jumped at me, in this forum's context. If you explain to me the parody, I'll spare you the meaning of what I wrote above ;)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 10, 1998.


Context of that parody-quote:

Roark, the main character, is an architect who is really creative, really skilled, but totally off the mainstream. He is working in a quarry as a laborer. A highly-educated female columnist named Dominique, who is beautiful and also very intellectual, is walking one day (her family owns the quarry; her dad is a famous architect who hates Roark), comes across the quarry, and notices Roark. They don't exactly talk; they just look at each other. The next day she goes back. She tells the quarry manager that she wants "that red-haired man" to come fix something in her house, a slab that she has deliberately broken. The manager sends the wrong red-haired man. He fixes the slab and goes home. The next day she asks for Roark, specifically pointing. When his shift is up, he goes to her house and basically rapes her. Due to some sick figment of Ayn Rand's imagination (I imagine she was simply having a stressed day or something), this is what Dominique wanted. He then re-smashes the slab and leaves it broken, for some metaphorical reason I don't entirely understand.

It's nowhere near as good a book as Atlas Shrugged.

--Leo

-- Leo (leo_champion@hotmail.com), December 10, 1998.


Finished reading the book for the second time.

Chris, the following should not ruin the book for you. It's generic and vague.

What would have happened to Eddie at the very end? He was a good guy..not a Larkin or a Stadler but a definite good-guy who also turns out to be a competent leader and a very good ---- (for Chris's benefit I'm leaving a few blanks and being as vague as I can..hurry up and finish the damn book, Chris, so I don't have to censor myself about it!). Anyway, when the train breaks down and all the other passengers/crew go, and Eddie stays, I know this symbolises some kind of futility...but does he get to inherit TT (Dagny having ---- ---- ----- ----- ----- -----, and James ---- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- --- ----- ----)? Or simply die eventually?

--Leo

-- Leo (leo_champion@hotmail.com), December 11, 1998.


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