For those who have spent time in really third world countries (mexico doesn't really count in this case), there probably isn't new info here. for those who haven't and are preparing for a truly infomagic possibility, read on. I know that most, including me, are stockpiling toilet paper, but if the S really HTF, you won't be able to stock enough. I spent a while in India (Calcutta, mostly), and asia. Most, (75 %, approx.) of the world's population does not use toilet paper. You may say ick, (probably will), but read and put it in your mind to dig out later, if necessary. I brought tp with me to India, saying i would never resort to the alternative, and not quite believing that there really would not be any. Well, lets just say, that it is difficult to believe, but toilet paper has a way of just disappearing, and bodily functions do not. I was finally forced to admit that there was no more anywhere in the country to be had. I was not about to use my towel, so i had to use the alternative. In these countries (and if the SHTF, this country too), a bucket of water is usually placed next to the pit toilet (it's far worse when there isn't any bucket, or someone forgot to replace said water, believe me i know). After said bodily functions have functioned, take a handful or scoop ful of water and wash. Get in the habit of using only 1 hand for this function (harder than you would think), and the other for shaking others hands, eating out of communal food bowel etc. (i think most of these countries, hindu, muslim etc, use left hand for body functions, and right for social/eating functions, and neither the twain shall meet. Try eating chapatis with the left hand in an indian restaurant and see the looks!). You could also bring a squeeze bottle of water with you into the toilet, though you would have to make sure nobody drank out of it afterwards!!!! yuck. Oh, wash your hands afterwards! Hope this doesnt gross anyone out, but these little things are some of the realities if the situation becomes as bad as some of us are thinking it might. :)

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), December 05, 1998

Answers

Hi Damian:

I think the method you described is called "sluicing" You are right. Most of the world does use this method. That is why when a thief in a moslem country has his right hand cut off he becomes an outcast in society. Nobody wants to have him over for dinner. My question for you and any other medical people is this: Can contaminated water be used for this purpose? Can you get sick using suspect water in this manner? Perhaps a more sophisticated procedure can be implimented by using sponges or rags? The squeeze bottle ain't bad, kinda like a portable bidette.

What a world: Bill in South Carolina

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), December 05, 1998.

Why not just stock up on toilet paper?

-- Anti-Chainsaw (Tree@hugger.com), December 05, 1998.

Damian: Your method is by far the best for getting your butt clean after pinching a loaf (ha, just some humor). Instead of using a squirt bottle, simply fill up a douche' bag and use the tube that has the holes in it. Hang it by the toilet. All douche' bags have clamps attached to the hose that will help conserve water. Douche bags come in handy for enemas, and a hot water bottle. If your worried about the water, just boil it for 10 minutes, and of course cool before using YYEEEEEEOW!

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 05, 1998.

Another part of the hygiene is to make the latrine itself as sanitary and isolated as possible. Flys are a problem, they can go directly from latrine to the food prep area, and that is a major disease vector. I have read that some 60's communes suffered disease due to lack of sufficient distance and sanitation.

-- Mitchell Barnes (spanda@inreach.com), December 05, 1998.

Just go and take a shit in your neighbor's yard.

-- Anti-Chainsaw (Tree@hugger.com), December 05, 1998.

I got a hold of some very large phone books. You know , the kind with 'see through' thin paper. I tied it out and the truth is that it works more than adequately. They can be gotten for free and I have stocked up about two dozen of them with more than a thousand pages each.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), December 05, 1998.

* Why not just stock up on toilet paper? *

I've lived TEOTWAWKI and I feel sad about all the innocent people who may have to suffer.

May I suggest to save newspapers instead of toi paper. It has multi- purpose uses. Be careful, it's very flammable. I had to use propaganda papers for years. The only store in our village folded papers into cone bags to package foods as they were bought, such as sugar, flour, etc.

-- TTF (trying to forget) (seenit@ww2.com), December 05, 1998.

"My question for you and any other medical people is this: Can contaminated water be used for this purpose?"

Any water that you can swim in is safe enough for this purpose. Stream/river/lake/pool water. Men can even use water that was used for lundry if the clothes was average/lightly soiled and depending on the type of soil (normal everyday wear; sweat, food stains etc.) But women's anatomy is more..shall we say, sensitive to the water used, so I wouldn't recommend using used water.

My advice, as a nurse, is to emphisize on stockpiling on soaps instead of toilet paper. Any paper can be used to wipe in a pinch, even tree leaves and other such softer material, but you always must wash your hands thoroughly after using the toilet, no matter what you used to clean up. Even if you used your hands, a good throrough cleaning with soap and water will rander you as harmless as before ;)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 05, 1998.

Thanks, Chris, for the clarification. Hey Paul,..been saving phone books for a couple years....

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), December 05, 1998.

You people have to make a federal case out of everything. Just buy the fricking toilet paper. Whats the big deal?????????? I've been blessed with the agility to stick my head between my legs. Think I need to brush afterwards???

-- wipe it (asswiper@sniff.com), December 05, 1998.

Well that's lovely, wipe it...I bet we're all pleased for you....In the meantime what does it matter how the rest of us prepare to wipe?

Thanks for sharing.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), December 05, 1998.

* I've been blessed with the agility to stick my head between my legs. *

You reflect upon yourself.

-- fly . (.@...), December 05, 1998.

Leaves .. Washcloth ... Water ... Soap ... Learn how to make more soap naturally.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), December 05, 1998.

Before we had disposable diapers and little wipes for diaper changes. we had cloth diapers and flannel washcloths.

We also had a diaper pail to soak the diapers in. You used a pail, a little detergent and if you wanted a drop or two of bleach.

It was not difficut or horrible. The flannel washcloths went in the diaper pail. no problem!! no rubber gloves even.

If caught out in the woods -- look for big burdock leaves -- Nothing so cool and soothing than a big burdock leaf. Does burdock grow where you live????

I don't plan to stock up on toilet paper -- What you going to do with that after it is used?? especially if the sewer is plugged up with a football (see earlier thread??)

Get small 2 quart bucket,(the size icecream comes in) soap, bleach and plenty of washcloths. (if you have delicate bottom --make flannel ones).

Some of us have done it before.

-- alurker (nobody@nowhere.com), December 05, 1998.

"Get in the habit of using only 1 hand for this function (harder than you would think), and the other for shaking others hands, eating out of communal food bowel etc. (i think most of these countries, hindu, muslim etc, use left hand for body functions, and right for social/eating functions, and neither the twain shall meet."

Ummm... maybe it's just me but, I'll be dipped in sh!t before I eat out of ANYBODY'S food bowel!

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), December 05, 1998.

Old poem a WWII survivor told me was in every latrine in Europe

Don't sit near or on this seat Crabs in here can jump three feet

In other words - if you have to choose between lice killer and TP - buy the lice killer. Maybe I ought to start a thread on this kind of thing.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), December 06, 1998.

Heh Donna, that was funny! We need more humor like yours! Thanks for the laugh!

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 06, 1998.

Well I'll tell you what, my butt is itching already just reading about all these different ways to wipe my butt! If you all just use the damn douche bag like I told you to, you won't have to worry about toilet paper, magazines, newspapers, Ma Bell.....Just plain old water and a douche bag! A couple drops of antibacterial soap in the water and you have got one clean butt! No muss no fuss.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 06, 1998.

Just dont wipe your ass.

-- smith (treehugger@antichainsw.com), December 06, 1998.

These postings are rising to an ever higher intelligence level. In a week or two we'll dicover ionization propulsion and anti-gravity machines. All compliant.

-- fly . (.@...), December 06, 1998.

"You people have to make a federal case out of everything. Just buy the fricking toilet paper."

Wipe It and others who may wonder; this forum is for learning practical tips on preparations. Latrine hygiene is hardly a federal case, although as fun to learn as one, but is basic Boy Scout knowledge. Anything you learn here will someday come in handy, Y2K or no Y2K. Toilet paper is a luxury many westerners never had to do without in their lives, especially younger city people who have easy access to the internet. Perhaps someday you'll go on an adventure trip to India or Zimbaway and oops...where's the toilet paper? Oh man, what do I do now?!

Well now you know :) And I forgive your childish reaction, just glad you could learn something ;)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 06, 1998.

Isn't it amazing how even the most intelligent (or think they are intelligent) people can be sucked into a disgusting conversation.

Slap to the little piggy who used my handle.

-- Anti-Chainsaw (Tree@hugger.com), December 06, 1998.

But this is a very important subject, especially since many people seemed to have unlearned, or never learned to properly wash after potti. Ever notice the instructions in public restrooms, with pictures, on how to wash after potti. This wasn't needed some years ago. We were smarter then.

-- fly . (.@...), December 06, 1998.

What about the new little stickers on packages of meat telling you how to properly handle meat, and what about the stickers on coffee cups warning you that the coffee may be hot, and what about weather people telling you it's going to rain and to be sure and carry an umbrella, I AM tired OF PEOPLE TELLING ME WHAT TO DO! I want to know why I am treated like a 2 year old? Are we really all that stupid? PLEEEEEASE! I guess when the time comes when someone, some where runs out of toilet paper, they'll figure it all out, do you know why? Because they have to.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 07, 1998.

This is a very popular thread, wonder why!

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), December 07, 1998.

This is a very important thing to know. Because a dirty butt leads to other diseases. Did you know that some bladder infections are caused by the E. Coli bacteria. E. Coli is found in human waste. I think you have the big picture.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 07, 1998.

E Coli, often wondered where he came from.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), December 08, 1998.

Where's E. btw? Haven't seen him in a while. I miss his ...smearing posts ;)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), December 08, 1998.

Didn't anyone catch my post awhile back where I made reference to corncobs as barter items?

Two sided. Biodegradeable. Some have handles.

Me.

-- Floyd Baker (fbaker@wzrd.com), December 08, 1998.