If we shoot a looter will we be arrested?

If we are just defending our homes and family will our fine government see fit to arrest us?

-- Gary (gnb@co.clark.nv.us), December 04, 1998

Answers

You may only shoot WHITE looters. Otherwise Al Sharpton might launch a rally and march outside your home. This shouldn't be an issue though since looters are usually BLACK!

My opinion: Go for it!

(you might want to dig a small trench ahead of time for proper body disposal)

-- Dick Hertz (dickweed@aol.com), December 04, 1998.

I think you should continue to follow the laws in your area. Some states allow lethal force in property protection, others do not. Keep your shotgun handy, always shoot from behind cover. Just seeing your shotgun will deter most casual looters. "Studies show" the shotgun has the most powerful psychological deterrent profile of ANY weapon. Same applies to the characteristic pump action sound. (though that part doesn't apply to my Benelli S90 autoloader, but on the other hand, the Benelli can fire 12 ga. slugs (.75 cal!) almost as fast as a machine gun.)

-RC

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. - Matthew 5:39-41

-- Runway Cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), December 04, 1998.

Gary,

Some state laws that allow Shall Issue Carry Conceal deadly Weapons Permits, require that you be "In imminent danger of injury or death to your person".

This means if you "believe" you are about to be harmed you may shoot an intruder.

You may not, under the law, shoot someone for stealing your property.

In some cases you cannot even shoot someone who is harming another person. Too many lawyers I think.

But as I say...Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6. If a looter is taking what my family and I need to survive, he is harming my life and will be shot.

Hey DICK!! LOL and ROTFLOL!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Isn't sarcasm wonderful?

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), December 04, 1998.

Why not booby-trap your domicile/property and use firearms as a last resort?

Beats using landmines :-)

-- Home Alone (enter@yerownrisk.org), December 04, 1998.

A policeman once told me to make sure you shoot the intruder from the front and then make sure you drag the body inside the house because it is easier to claim breaking and entering and self defence.

-- Texas Terri (TYSYM@AOL.com), December 04, 1998.

Everyone, everywhere is free to do anything they want to do. The consequences are determined locally by the individual police officer, prosecuting attorney, the skill of the defense lawyer, the mood of a judge, the mood of a jury, who you are, what you look like, how you present yourself and a myriad of "soft" influences inlieu of hard rules.

-- PNG (png@gol.com), December 04, 1998.

Not if you get rid of the body. If an intruder comes into your home, shoot to kill. If they are trespassing on your property ask them nicely to leave, of course with your 12 gauge Mossberg in your arm to let them know you mean business. If they are destroying your personal property, shoot to kill and have a big hole ready for burial.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), December 04, 1998.

Generally it is assumed in a looting situation that life is in danger and self defense is necessary. Besides that - do you really think the courts are going to be worrying about looters lives when they have so many other things to think about if it is bad enough that looting is common?

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), December 04, 1998.

If you really care for your fellow man, you will probably give everything away anyway. RC's quote (Mt 5:39-41) says it all.

We are attempting to stockpile extra to share with the DGI's when they come knocking. By the way Dick, I think you need to rethink your comment about all looters being black. I live in a mostly white NW city, and could imagine looting occuring if circumstances got bad enough. Beneath our skin color, we are all the same anyway.

-- Bill S. (Bill_S3@juno.com), December 04, 1998.

Oh yeah, I am white.

-- Bill S. (Bill_S3@juno.com), December 04, 1998.

Dick,

Almost wet my shorts laughing at your post! Sarcasm is indeed wonderful.

-- Anti-Chainsaw (Tree@hugger.com), December 04, 1998.

Someone enters my land, "fuck off, asshole." "You fuck off. Land mine now." "I got gun, you mine now." BANG! "ooh, I got a body. Hey, doggie! dinner time!"

OR, if they got own guns, "oi, lez kick his door in!" "hello!" (from behind) "wha-?" BANG! BANG BANG BANG! BANG! BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG "goodie, I got me new guns AND lotsa dogfood!"

-- Jerry (jerry@me.com), December 04, 1998.

In most states they will allow you to shoot if you are in immediate danger of loss of life. If they are in your home, make sure you shoot them from the front (for obvious reasons) and don't let them leave your property alive after you have shot them. If they get away there is a good chance you will spend lots of time in jail.

Now in a Martial Law situation where the cops are already over their heads being busy, they will most likely pat you on the back and take the body away saying "thanks, one left for us to have to deal with" With th state of the courts these days *MOST* cops would probably look the other way thankful that they would not have to see this puke again after the judge let him out for no good reason.

-- Excop (excop@police.com), December 05, 1998.

The one phrase that is missing from all these explanations is "reasonable" If you shoot someone because you have a "reasonable" belief that your life, or the life of another is in danger, go ahead and shoot. It would not be reasonable to shoot a looter while he runs away with your tv set. If he is in your house with a gun, it may be reasonable to shoot him but not always. If he has his gun in his waistband and you have the drop on him, it is not reasonable to fear for your life. On the other hand, if you see him make a move towards his waistband and you have a reasonable belief that there is a gun there, go ahead and shoot. Just make sure that his gun cannot be traced back to you. (bad cop joke) In the academy we were taught to define the word "reasonable" as a 12 headed dragon, one head for each member of the jury.

Bill in South Carolina

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), December 05, 1998.

I lived in Iowa one year. During the time I was there a homeowner was arrested and charged with murder. He had set a boobytrap to protect his home while he was away, having experienced earlier breakins. The booby trap killed the next thief who broke in. The homeowner was convicted of murder.

That was Iowa. Better check relevant statutes where you live.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), December 05, 1998.

Of course I cannot speak with certainty, but, I would think if we are dealing with TEOTWAWKI scenarios of various intensities, all bets are off...and that "law" will be defined differently.

I'm favoring the voice out the door: "If you want to live go away", prior to the shotgun blast. Could save a lot of time and energy necessary for digging holes in the frozen ground for burial purposes.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), December 05, 1998.

Will this turn the bold off?

-- jjjj (jjj@jjj.com), December 05, 1998.

Uh...the bold was OFF...

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), December 05, 1998.

On the booby trap question, As I recall Traps of any kind are illegal because they don't discriminate who they catch and as no life was in danger the courts will rule against you almost every time.

-- Ex-cop (excop@police.com), December 06, 1998.

Sorry DUH DUH Donna! The posts after your screw up were all bold. Not anymore. I fixed it.. hee hee

-- jjjjj (jjj@jjj.com), December 06, 1998.

This is a very unsetteling subject. To kill or not and possibly be killed because you didn't. Seems like the ultimate survival question to anyone not so inclined.

As far as a warning; the sight of a 12 guage is a deterent and the noise of a 12 guage going off is a further deterent.

What about getting hit in the chest with a packing wad from a blank cartridge. Would that just make someone mad?? Personally, I would look for food elsewhere.

What about salt as a load? Put people out with a real good reason not to come back?

What about wounding? Bird shot in an arm or leg allows them to leave under their own power and you don't have to start a grave yard.

Shooting someone dead would give you all kinds of problems such as legal, disposal (or smell and disease), the dead guys brothers, and lastly your own conscience.

I'm sure that in a y2k senario, in the middle of the night, in my own home, knowing it was not another family member, I would be able to pull the trigger.

But; if you have time for alternatives??

Me.

-- Floyd Baker (fbaker@wzrd.com), December 06, 1998.

But if you shoot a looter in the arm or leg, won't s/he come back with her/his buddies for revenge? Why not capture that person and make them your slave. It's better than killing someone, and they deserve imprisonment if they're out there stealing. Put them to work for you and keep them in chains. Also better than some countries which cut off their hands.

xxxxxxx xxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), December 06, 1998.

Floyd wrote: >Put them to work for you and keep them in chains.

But if we do that, then we gotta feem 'em, clothe 'em and take care of 'em. Better to use 'em as fertilizer.

Bobbi +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "It's fun to do the impossible" ---Walt Disney--- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Y2k? http://www.buzzbyte.com/ Got water? Got Beans? Take the Y2k Preparation Quiz!

-- Bobbi (volfnat@northweb.com), December 07, 1998.

Was the question 'looters"? as in 7-11, etc. ?

Maybe I've misunderstood, I always knew that looters headed for little farms in the boondocks... dang!,.... I knew I was missing something.......

If you are not a 7-11 owner, or a Korean 7-11 owner in sunny LA, or were a Korean shopkeeper in the Rodney King riots in LA, you may possibly %not% know what to expect WTSHTF.

Now I know what you are saying.

Mobs, armed or not, will be after your supplies and could posibly be construed as "looters". Though not technically:)

Fire a couple of warning shots. If they are so foolish as to advance, Plan B ensues.

Pick the ringleader off with your night-vision scope and rifle. The rest is up to you - hopefully the mob will have passed by for easier pickings, less one or two thugs.

Simple stuff - we don't like to think about it, just go back a little while in history... Sarajevo, Beirut, Belfast...

That's why we're in this mess, we don't learn from history.

-- Andy (andy_rowland@msn.com), December 07, 1998.

Floyd,

I know this is a disturbing subject but if you point a weapon (rifle or pistol) and discharge it (wading or otherwise) it is considered assault with intent (the intent will be decided by the arresting officer). If the police are called you will be arrested (whether warranted or not). Also if you discharge the weapon and wing the person it is Assault with intent to kill (or commit bodily harm(according to your local statute)). In many of these cases, the criminal can come out the winner and the poor home owner the loser due in part to the way our justice system works (or doesn't work). Remember, 9 times out of 10 they will not take into account your intent, most of the time your actions are what speak for you.

-- Excop (excop@police.com), December 07, 1998.