interesting excerpt... : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

...from William Greider's new book, "Fortress America."

Imagine Fort Hood after the Techno Ambush...

-- pshannon (, December 04, 1998


pshannon, great post!

Interesting eye on the might of our nation.

Personal debt is a big problem for many soldiers.

I wonder if, like the Navy, the Armys payroll computers are not mission critical? How would that change likely mobilization scenarios?

A modern battle tank, for all its speed and sophisticated power, is oddly delicate and vulnerable to soaring expenses. An M-1 burns nearly two gallons of fuel per mile. Its tracks and complex operating parts are subject to perpetual wear and breakdown, even from routine travel. Operating a tank in the field, the Army calculates, costs $147 per mile in fuel and repair bills.

Tax dollars at work. When the fuel runs out or the parts breakdown, theyre just so much, heavy expensive metal. Who drives them, machines or humans? Wonder what the humans would do poised in front of a mass of people, women and children, many their own families, friends and relatives, and ordered to fire. Would the under orders rank and file pull the trigger on fellow Americans and children? Will they see red, white or blue?

The parking lots of armor reflect, crudely, the great national dilemma we are evading. America is experiencing a deep confusion of purpose at this moment of history, holding on to a past that is defunct, but unable to imagine a different future.

So many people around this country, and this world, see a different dream.


-- Diane J. Squire (, December 04, 1998.


You must have never dated any GIs! I've known thousands of them from all branches of the service and even the "dirtballs" wouldn't shoot American women and kids! "Slick Willie" has a problem though. When he "visits the troops", no GI within range is allowed live ammunition! Why is anyone so willing to believe that the military is full of people with no moral values?

Check my posting in the "Government has all the pieces in place for a total takeover.." thread. I put it together mostly with you in mind. . .

-- Hardliner (, December 04, 1998.

Hardliner, truthfully, I don't think they'd shoot. I actually think they'd walk away from the heavy metal. I also suspect their Petagon leaders know that one too.


-- Diane J. Squire (, December 04, 1998.

I think it would depend on the individual GI and the situation as to whether they would shoot. If the mob was armed and charging at them, I'm inclined to believe most would. If it was a passive, peaceful protest, I don't think many would.

Walk away from the armor? If it was TEOTWAWKI, I'd consider an M1 a very useful thing to have on hand!


-- Leo (, December 05, 1998.

In China, Tian An Men, the local Beijing area troops wouldn't accept the order shoot to kill live rounds on the students. Eventually, Mongolian and Manchurian troops from far out of town, pure peasant boys, were brought in and had absolutely NO qualms about firing with gusto, early and often, picked 'em off like chickens.

This kind of troop psychology is well-understood. Keep in mind, there are serious racial and philosophical divisions with the US Armed Forces. We may be training the future factions of our next civil war. Robert E Lee was the finest student who ever graduated from West Point (not a single demerit in his student record).


-- Run W. Cat (, December 05, 1998.


" G.I. is allowed within range with live ammunition..."

I've noticed not only that, but I've also noticed that no G.I. close to him is allowed a weapon. Even the officers have empty holsters for their sidearms. Have you noticed?


-- LP (, December 05, 1998.

I'm with Hardliner and Diane on this one...My nephew is in the army...When he became Y2K aware his first thoughts were about what they would try to make them question in his mind that he will desert.

Speculation is not fact, and sometimes there is learning from history.

-- Donna Barthuley (, December 05, 1998.

When our fearless leader came to visit the installation I worked on a few years ago, it was natural that the place was abuzz about it.

The first question asked was frequently "You going to see him?"

The single most common response from uniformed people was "I have to. It's orders." They had to FORCE support of the man, and every soldier and officer was given a copy of a Memo of Instruction on what sort of behavior would NOT be tolerated.

They had to tell them they couldn't call the Commander in Chief nasty names.

About the concept of using 'non-local' troops against the angry mob of villagers. Kind of an old idea, isn't it? Wasn't that a common practice in ancient Rome? Use out-of-towners for local units, and send Roman boys out to tame the Empire?

Maybe I've been watching too much of the History Channel.

-- Arewyn (, December 05, 1998.

Ooh, just thought of something else, too.

On said installation there are many, many Army families. If the soldiers want to protect their own family inside the gates, I imagine they will do as told outside the gates. Think?

How could someone hold onto their morals when their family is being held hostage?

Just wondering.

-- Arewyn (, December 05, 1998.

Ruby Ridge/Waco

Enough said!!

-- More Dinty Moore (Not @this, December 05, 1998.

Traveled through Europe. In some countries there are no oil spots in parking lots because the cars are so new. Whenever I saw an old junker, it was almost always driven by an American serviceperson.

-- Traveller (traveller@jet.set), December 05, 1998.

Arewyn, If their family was being held hostage, I wouldn't want to let them outside the "fenced in" perimeter, if I was military brass. Suspect the brass-faced ones would be the first to "disappear." Don't think the rest of us would have to worry at all, in fact, many would probably join up with the "rank and file" and help them against the brass!


-- Diane J. Squire (, December 05, 1998.

Don't you DARE even suggest that the military had ANYTHING to do with Ruby Ridge or Waco!

Look to the ninja suited, masked cowards who permeate American federal "law enforcement".

-- Hardliner (, December 07, 1998.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ