yeah, we deserve y2kgreenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
I just listened to one of the most horrible stories I have ever heard in my life. I am shocked, angry and saddened to the core of my soul.
A father, not wanting to pay child support, has injected his toddler in an effort to kill him. The father injected his son with the HIV virus. The little boy now has AIDS. What is wrong with this father? Where are his priorities? He didn't want to pay child support so he destroys the life of his son? He should have killed himself.
Sorry, I know this is off topic. But, in a way, it's exactly why y2k could be the best medicine for our society.
-- Michael Taylor (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 02, 1998
Something tells me that this sort of thing will continue regardless. Whenever you see poverty and lack of education, you see theft, murder, drug use. Will Y2k bring more or less poverty? Better education? There's something not quite right with the "discipline and punish" panacea. Some people say that if God punishes us, we will be more humble and contrite. I say we will just turn around and kick the dog.
-- E. Coli (email@example.com), December 02, 1998.
Fear not , there is a place already prepaired for him ,and that is why GOD has place many people like me to expidite there trip back to the mother ship.
he will get his , we cant see the big picture , but i am sure that it is already in motion.
-- Ron (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 02, 1998.
Hey, E, where ya been?
Michael, that is pretty disgusting. However, it does not mean that "we" deserve Y2K or anything else. And you know that, you're just bummed out. So, turn off your computer, go outside, take a walk, have some munchies, whatever. You'll be back to your more cheerful and caring self fairly soon. I promise. Humans have always done disgusting things individually and collectively. And some beautiful things to...
-- pshannon (email@example.com), December 02, 1998.
You usually make a whole lot of sense but you just made a ridiculous statement.
There are a whole lot of places on earth in which people are poor and uneducated and there is a helluva lot less crime/violence/drug use there than there is here. I submit that you'll be unable to directly link poverty and lack of education to criminal behavior as a universal maxim (i.e. spanning all cultures and time periods).
Crime such as we see unfolding in the U.S. has its roots elsewhere.
-- Franklin Journier (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 02, 1998.
Just remember, you, are a good, loving and caring father. Most of them out there, while human, are good father's. Don't judge or condemn the human race on the one's that forgot their humanity.
No. We do not deserve Y2K. Nor do you, nor does your child. Like it or not, we have it. You KNOW in your soul what choices we have to make here.
Meanwhile, I second shutting off your computer. Walk on that Southern CA beach. Take a "timeout." Remember you've been hugged before by those who love you. We love you. Your child loves you.
-- Diane J. Squire (email@example.com), December 02, 1998.
ps, Diane, I took your advice and gave myself a "timeout". It felt good. I listened to my son laugh. I did some work with my hands. I have faith again. Thank you from a man with a strong heart who's passions have a hair trigger.
Even so, I can't help but look at society and it's backward ideals. A few years ago, when I worked full time for the corporate world, it was easy to see how twisted sensibilities were. I used to get the strangest looks for saying that we should change the work week to three days, with four days off : )
When I see stories like this I think of my father who would have loved to be here right now, playing with his son and his grandson. He's been gone almost 23 years now. At 13, it's tough to lose a father.
When I see stories like this I react.
I feel a shift coming. Leo brought up a "Golden Age". In a way, I view this shift as very positive. A new, less technical "Golden Age" where respect for all life is foremost in all peoples minds.
-- Michael Taylor (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 02, 1998.
I think we can create that if we all, or at least most, of us choose to Michael.
We can certainly do it for ourselves. As a consultant, I would often work one week on, one week off. (And in Southern California, I refused to "do" traffic). I choose to run my life, not have it run me. We all can.
-- Diane J. Squire (email@example.com), December 02, 1998.
Nobody seems to have noted that this father, if he exists, is not only a criminal lunatic, but a witless fool as well. HIV is not like cyanide. It takes, usually, several years to develop into fullblown AIDS, followed by a long period, often years, of increasing debility and illness. He hasn't gotton out of child support -- he's only guaranteed it'll be more expensive for quite some time.
-- Tom Carey (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 02, 1998.
Franklin - man oh man you missed the mark that time. The reason crime looks like it is less in the poverty stricken countries is very very simple - first - the criminals are usually running things. When the criminals get to make the laws - what laws are there for them to break? Second - crime is very seldom reported by the truly poor in such places - the local gang lord will certainly revenge himself on you in a big way. Third - much of what we call crime is totally ignored in places like Haiti - for example it is very common to be accosted by prostiutes in such places - much more common than in the US. Finally - if you bother to check out the stats on China (for example) you must either believe they magically are able to breed only for sons - or that they have been killing off girl babies at a rate of about half a million plus per year. The occasional murder of a child by a parent is news here - over there it barely rates as neighborhood gossip.
Or perhaps you were thinking about places like Singapore or Malaysia? News flash - they are very modern countries - we import chips and VCR's from them for crying out loud. Friend from Malaysia tells me they don't have a drug problem for a simple reason - anyone found with illegal drugs more than sufficient for a single dose is assumed by the courts to be a drug seller - and executed - normally within a week. The single dose guys get caned for the first offense - calling it a caning is silly - imagine getting beaten with a broomstick as hard as possible by a burly cop who intends to make the blood fly. If they come back for a second offense - they are executed. Stop and think about all your friends and relatives and their kids who have had some kind of drug trouble - then imagine they are all dead. Do you really want THAT solution to the drug problem?
Look around people - it is not that much better anywhere else - and it never has been any better here either - we are just talking about it more.
Incidentally - I would probably execute that father in the original post as quickly as possible - preferably painfully as possible. But one bizzare crime does not make a crime wave.
-- Paul Davis (email@example.com), December 03, 1998.
This is the old "society is to blame" argument. Do you think the man is not responsible for his actions. You think it is "our" fault therefore we need to be "punished" by y2k. Obviously it is just cold-blooded murder but where the child will die a slow death for years. What was the man's fate, there have been other instances where AIDS has been deliberately transmitted (sexually) I expect they were all let off.
-- Richard Dale (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 03, 1998.
"Stop and think about all your friends and relatives and their kids who have had some kind of drug trouble - then imagine they are all dead. Do you really want THAT solution to the drug problem? "
We're off topic here but -- Yes, I do. I don't know any druggies personally. I have the distinct feeling that most of them would never be missed, & society would benefit greatly from the end of the "war on drugs." Singapore has the right idea as far as I can see, so long as the person is really guilty.
-- Ben Dair (email@example.com), December 03, 1998.
Wild shots sprayed over the landscape; none hit the mark.
Murder of Chinese girls is not motivated by poverty. Most Chinese families could support more than one child, especially if they had personal freedom to pursue maximum personal productivity. But they are ordered by an oppressive regime to have only one and so they X the girls and any excess boys. Neither poverty nor lack of education lies behind this; tyranny (sp?) does.
Not sure how the examples of Singapore and Malaysia address the point. Which is it? Are they rich enough to nearly approximate the West and so don't serve as an example of poverty/lack of education (if so, why did you bring them up)? Or are they poor enough to count but nevertheless have a very low rate of crime and drug use (blowing your use of them as an example)? Actually I'm not against corporal punishment for criminals; to contend that imprisoning a person with a bunch of moral degenerates is somehow kind and gentle while caning him and letting him go is brutal is bizarre thinking.
I'm far afield in a Y2K forum. I submit again that it would be impossible to demonstrate as a maxim spanning cultural and historical lines that poverty and lack of education are directly linked to the crime rate. By all means cite the studies if there are any, but the burden is on you.
-- Franklin Journier (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 03, 1998.
regarding ben's statement - "...I don't know any druggies personally. I have the distinct feeling that most of them would never be missed, & society would benefit greatly from the end of the "war on drugs." Singapore has the right idea as far as I can see, so long as the person is really guilty."
Sort of contradictory...and I suppose it depends on your definition of "druggies"...I smoke pot occasionally and have done other recreational drugs, and if I were killed because of that (or for any other reason) I would certainly be missed. I promise you that. And so would 99% of the other "druggies" in this world. Why? Because we're all HUMAN BEINGS! The contradiction is the part that we would greatly benefit from the end of the "War on Drugs" which I happen to agree with. It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on black people and certain hispanics, and an excuse for local law enforcement agencies to buy all sorts of way cool expensive toys.
And what the hell do you mean that Singapore has the right idea, as long as the person is guilty? Spoking pot in the privacy of my own home is at worst a victimless crime, and only so because William Randolph Hearst wanted to get rid of the hemp paper mills so that he could cut down his forest holdings in the northwest and make a huge profit. For that I should be caned? If I were to hurt someone else or steal to buy drugs, well those things are already crimes...
I don't know, it's like, I feel that cats are horrible disgusting creatures and I manage to get a law passed that says anyone who owns a cat will be beaten to within an inch of their lives. Naturally, there are millions of people out there who secretly own cats, and occasionally one of them is caught and beaten. A great black market in cat food emerges, and prices skyrocket, and people are forced to sell their kids and steal from the till in order to buy cat food...whatever, stupid comparison. Just as stupid as soft drugs being illegal. Its just a power trip thing, and really nobody elses business. Alcohol and cigarettes are by far worse than pot. I'm ranting. I'm gonna shut up now...
Oh, and we DON'T deserve Y2K, or to be beaten...
-- pshannon (email@example.com), December 03, 1998.
Laws on drug use/abuse should not disrupt a person's life more than the drug use itself. This should be obvious.
Don't throw the "baby" (person) out with the "bathwater" (the drugs).
-- Kevin (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 03, 1998.