CBS had a short intro concerning Y2k to be aired on the evening news Monday night. "Eyes on America" segment. Maybe this is a trend.

Martin

-- Martin Thompson (Martin@aol.com), November 29, 1998

Answers

Maybe a trend to feed us a tantalizing, progressively more open byte every few nights? Problem is, that dribble may desensitize sheeple so they don't pay attention. Or maybe it *will* begin seeping in. Can only watch the barometers and see as we prepare ... xxxxxx xxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), November 29, 1998.

Two weeks ago, Dan Rather's people called me at home and asked to come out to my farm and film a Y2K piece for the evening news. They said that they had to set up a schedule and call me back later in the afternoon. Later that day they called back and said, thank-you but they were going to use Scott Olmstead in the piece because he had been a programmer. As if, being a programmer means that you understand the consequences of Y2K any better.

Unfortunately Olmstead is only 'playing ' at being serious. Yes, he has pprepared. However he has ONLY done it as a precaution. He does not REALLY believe that it will get that bad. In my book, he is still a closet pollyanna.

What they needed was someone who would unabashedly look in the camera and say "If you live within five miles of a 7-11, you're toast." And support it with the facts. Olmstead will never do that. He is as wishy washy as they come and does not in the LEAST help to influence folks to seriously prepare. To him, it is not even fifty/fifty that a disaster will occur.

But that is the way of the media. Not enough are being warned of the catastrophe that is going to happen. It will always be in the realm of a 1% 'possibility'. And that is why so many millions are going to die in this country alone.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 29, 1998.

Mr. Milne,

"If you live within five miles of a 7-11, you're toast." And support it with the facts."

AND, the facts are, Mr. Milne?

-- Bob Walton (waltonb@kdsi.net), November 29, 1998.

Milne, I am sincerely interested in hearing what you would have said to the country if Olmstead had not been selected.

Keep it to network, prime time standards..you have 2 minutes.

GO!

MVI

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), November 29, 1998.

Personally, I think Olmstead was out of his mind. Anyone who isn't going to be part of the "group" when TSHTF, should be persona non grata in the mean time.

Paul, You should be thankfull CBS profiled someone else. They would have turn you into a 10 second sound 'byte' and made you look crazy.

Bob

-- WAAHOO (bobb@mtjeff.com), November 29, 1998.

Bob,

Here is the link to Milne's postings. His "facts" have painted an extremely clear picture of the situation for at least the last 5 months I have monitored him.

http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=*&DBS=2&ST=PS&defaultOp=AND&LNG =ALL&format=terse&showsort=score&maxhits=100&subjects=&groups=comp.sof tware.year-2000&authors=fedinfo*&fromdate=&todate=

-- a (a@a.a), November 29, 1998.

To Bob Walton: If you don't know the facts by now, I would not waste my breath on you.

To MVI: I don't jump through hoops, Bozo.

-- Paul Milne (fedinfo@halifax.com), November 29, 1998.

Mr. Milne, I have read your posts on the last couple of threads. I have done a significant amount of research on Y2K and although I find it very disturbing, I don't see any guarantee of disaster. Perhaps you can let the rest of us in on your sources of information. Your posts have not provided anything new. If you feel the need to wager your lifestyle on the destruction of society, then by all means continue milking cows. If the world doesn't end, you'll just be another dumb ass churning butter and bitching about how stupid everyone else is. I also find it strange that you quote scripture and then move to childish ranting and name calling in the same breath. If you've decided to be a bastard you should at least be committed to it. Be a full time bastard, it pays better.

-- Kilgore Trout (ktrout@fakeurl.com), November 29, 1998.

"To Bob Walton: If you don't know the facts by now, I would not waste my breath on you." Wow, I'm sorry Milne. I guess you really are serious about informing people. I never should have considered you a hypocrite. To think, only seconds ago, I thought you were a rediculous blow hard trying to justify you own extreme actions. Now I realize how rational you are. You do a real service by claiming Christianity as your religion. I'm leaving right now to go join a church. I hope I meet others there just like you.

Bite me, K. Trout

-- Kilgore Trout (ktrout@fakeurl.com), November 29, 1998.

Milne, I WAS a fan.

As far as you jumping through hoops:

"Paul Milne was a successful commodities trader living in Somerset County. He had a Cadillac in the garage, three children in private school, and a Little League team he coached on weekends.

Today, he lives on a 10-acre farm in rural Virginia, where he raises cows, hogs, and rabbits. He grows vegetables, churns his own butter, and makes his own soap. He has enough food to feed 20 people for two years."

The first paragraph reads like an obituary.

The second sounds like you not only JUMP through hoops but hold the patent and manufacturing rights for them as well.

You can kiss my gun toting, rice storing, ex-programmer ass.

MVI

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), November 29, 1998.

Let's see. When in doubt, attack, attack, attack. And by all means let's throw in some name calling like: Moron, Namby-Pamby, etc., etc.

Darned if I can figure this out. Mr. Milne moved to "the farm" five years ago. Was that in anticipation of Y2K, Mr. Milne? You must have been a buddy of De Jager at that time unless you were clairvoyant.

Mr. Milne, a few of my friends are very interested in your bio and they suggest, perhaps, it would be wise for you to seek some counsel.

I think I have my "facts straight", Mr. Milne. Now about that 7-11 that will be toast. Would you like to back that one up?

-- Bob Walton (waltonb@kdsi.net), November 29, 1998.

Calm down - both (all three ?) of you guys...

MVI, Sir trout, you jumping all over somebody you don't know - think about it dispassionity for just a minute. If Mr. Milne - who can as obnoxious as he chooses to be - it's his right -chose to give up the "comfortable stockbroker life - to accept one for himself and his family that's much less convenient, much more difficult - doesn't it prove his attitude? He takes it seriously. I'm not making as serious a preparation - in my opinion, based on the very small, very close-knit neighborhood _and_ city _and_ county where i live, I don't think its needed. Also, my county and city water, sewage, police, and power seem to way ahead of the game compared to national circumstances. So, why a place that appears to "a ragged point of light"?

Your mileage may vary. Make up your own mind. You are a big enough person to decide - with your family - what level of troubles you think will occur. If Paul's rough surface doesn't appeal to you, live without it. He won't mind. But you're cutting yourself off from a good, sincere source of knowledge. A person who lives what he forcasts.

And right now, the truth is in such short supply nationally - that I welcome knowledge from anybody who I trust. And the only people whom I trust I measure by their actions. I never promised to like the messenger, or "love" the mailman - but I'd read the mail if I were you.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 30, 1998.

*sniff sniff* why do I smell sour grapes?

Rick

-- Rick Tansun (ricktansun@hotmail.com), November 30, 1998.

Mr. Cook, for the most part, I agree with your position. There is a great deal of valuable information available here. I have been lurking quietly for some time now and I greatly enjoy the reading. However, I find it extraordinarily unfair to single out myself and MVI for "jumping all over" Mr. Milne. I mean, for God's sake, he calls everyone who doesn't agree with him a moron or some other ridiculous name. If anyone has ever deserved to be flamed, it's him. I despise pretentious and pompous individuals. This guy obviously can't get over himself. Should we all be impressed that he bugged out and left society? Why are you defending him? If you have read his posts, then you know that he considers you a panty waist for not trading your car in for a mule.

"You are typical of the mollycoddling morons that we read so much from. It is sickening. Ooooh don't inflame people. Don't harm their delicate sensibilities. Carefully word your message so that they will 'accept' it."

Those are Mr. Milne's words, not mine. He obviously doesn't have any problem dealing out the insults, he should be able to take a few too. By the way, who says this guy has any valuable information? I get my info from the GAO, Yourdon, DeJagger, CSIS, and other reputable sources. The only good info I've gotten from him is the location of a significant amount of stored food and that Dan Rather calls him. Also, I have made up my mind as to the extent of my preparation. I'm not a "newbie" on the topic of Y2K or survivalism. Milne's attitude does a disservice to people involved in Y2K and survivalism in general. The last thing any of us need is some arrogant ass ranting at people who are genuinely interested in learning more.

-- Kilgore Trout (ktrout@fakeurl.com), November 30, 1998.

Point taken - But understand, I never said "I liked 'im."

I think he'd get a lot more attention selling something (information) people would feel good about buying, and would feel good about being around. A salesmen who shoots (figuratively, verbally, or literatally ?) the first they they said "no" won't get any customers coming back when they chage their mind.

Word of mouth gets around faster than anything - and we need as many "salesmen" as possible - people who people will listen to. You (and Paul) have to remember that the ones (the few) who "get it" early are very rare. They have to be trained in how to train others to think for themselves - an extremely difficult task that re-programs everythng the speaker and the listener have been taught since first grade. Anything that gets in the way of the message getting out has to get shut off.

Now frankly, I know I'm not going to get Paul to change - his business, our loss perhaps, but his buisness. And he has toned down a bunch.....

But you're an unknown quantity to me so far. So, if I can get you focused on getting a clear, clean message out there - and if I can keep you and MVP (?) talking so I can learn from you, h**l, I figure I've done my part.

More clear?

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 30, 1998.

Now now ladies - handbags at the ready.... and......... BEGIN!

(apologies to the fairer sex but you know what I mean :-))

OK, you've finished verbally smacking each other around the mush with you're "purses"...

Listen up a bit...

Paul Milne is a breath of fresh air - check out the previous link where you can read his thoughts on Usenet - yes, he is abrasive (understatement...) - so what??? Get used to it - it's his TM style! He is obviously sincere - do a little reading...

This comment got to me; "Should we all be impressed that he bugged out and left society?".......

Whooooaaaa - that's a little condescending don't you think? I think it's actually quite admirable - takes a little courage to do that.

And before some Nimrod says I'm kissing Paul's arse (*not* ass -)), he is needed in this ongoing debate/evaluation/unravelling? of Y2K just as much as the de Jagers and Yardenis and Norths and Imagics of this world.

Don't shoot the messenger - don't be so sensitive.

Course if you want the truth just listen to CNN and Koskinen and, uh, ... uh....... Gore.

Felicitations, Andy

-- Andy (andy_rowland@msn.com), November 30, 1998.

Robert - "They have to be trained in how to train others to think for themselves - an extremely difficult task that re-programs everythng the speaker and the listener have been taught since first grade. Anything that gets in the way of the message getting out has to get shut off. "

Normally I don;t have many complaints about your comments, but this one made NO sense. You can not teach one to think for themselves, it has to be a self-reliation process. If I was to "teach" someone to think for themselves, they would end up with some tainting from my thoughts on the subject. Not a huge argument, but your comment made no sense to me.

Andy - "I think it's actually quite admirable - takes a little courage to do that. "

And I might even admire him if it had been for Y2K. Instead he bugged out in the early 90's because of a stock market crash he saw coming. Not quite sure why one "bugs out" because of stock market problems, but that would be Paul. If it was strictly due to Y2K I might think differently, but that is neither here nor there because that is not the situation.

Rick

-- Rick Tansun (ricktansun@hotmail.com), November 30, 1998.

Mr Cook, my handle is MVI not MVP. It is an IBM assembler OP code meaning 'Move Immediate'.

I felt it was appropriate for this forum.

MVI

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), November 30, 1998.

Mr. Milne, Thanks for your opinions. I hope you will continue to post (and not hold back) as there are some of us who are relying on truthful information that will prepare us to make (costly) decisions to come through y2k safe and sound. Truth is sometimes hard to come by and not for the faint in heart.

-- M.Doe (M.Doe@usa.net), November 30, 1998.

I hope Milne and everyone else continues to post also.

Geez, if anyone is a GI it is me. I share Milne's, Cory's, Infomagic, and even Norths sentiments. But I am not a Bozo.

Can't Milne kiss my ass and still continue to post. LOL!

I agree with almost every word that Milne says. I just don't want him to be the messenger to my DGI friends and relatives.

MVI

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), November 30, 1998.

Mr. Milne,

Maybe you should try Viagra

-- Anti-Chainsaw (Tree@hugger.com), November 30, 1998.

Thank you for the correction.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 30, 1998.

Really folks, isn't Milne-bashing the biggest waste of time ever invented? Talk about re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. We have 396 days left till the ship disappears beneath the waves. So get on with your preparations & let the doom-sayers do their work.

If ya don't like Milne, just scroll past his posts. How hard is that?

-- Ben Dair (not@aol.com), November 30, 1998.

Kilgore, et al - You are right, no one can guarantee that Y2K will be a disaster. Problem is, no one can guarantee that it won't be. You pays your money and you takes you chances. Paul Milne has placed his bet. Thats all there is to it.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), November 30, 1998.

Rick - I knew he bugged out back then, that's not the point I'm making - Milne saw a complete stock market crash followed by "bad thing" back then and moved to where he could be self sufficient. So what?

The point is he made his mind up and did something about it - I repeat, it takes a little courage to do something like that, no?

Those who see a worst case scenario should logically do the same thing.

I wonder just how many will follow through, and how many will still be analysing this situation up the kazoo when the clock ticks towards the witching hour in 396 days time?

Quite a few I bet!

Changing the subject, MVI, I luuurve your handle, but did you ever think some of the following would be more appropriate? :)

MVCDK do you have a place in mind?

MVZ maybe another state?

STD got enough supplies?

STM then get more!

and when the shit hits the fan, wait for it..............

EAR (boom boom)

BWWAAAAAAHHAAAAAAAAAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAAAHHAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAHAAAhaaahaa

"I crack myself up sometimes" :-)

Assembler translation:-

mvcdk = move with destination key

mvz = move zones

std = store

stm = store multiple

ear = extract access

I'm a sad bugger aren't I?

-- Andy (andy_rowland@msn.com), November 30, 1998.

Andy: It's been about 20 years since the bare metal days, but I still remember the following mnemonics:

RSD - Read and Shuffle Deck MCF - Mangle, Crease, and Fold IA - Illogical And PS - Print and Smear UER - Update and Erase Record BAH - Branch and Hang SSD - Seek and Scar Disk LSPSW - Load and Scramble PSW AII - Acknowledge and Ignore Interupt PLSC - Perform Light Show on Console WWLR - Write Wrong Length Record MST - Mount Scotch Tape

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 30, 1998.

Andy, I've been thinking about starting all over again. I seem to be a little misunderstood in this forum. My offbeat sense of humor and tendency to explain myself in too few words is the probable reason.

How about ZAP?

ZAP=zero and add packed.

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), November 30, 1998.

Rob - haven't heard of most of those!

MVI - ZAP sounds cool, I may go for STM myself!

Later, Andy

-- Andy (andy_rowland@msn.com), November 30, 1998.

Thanks a lot guys - you got me on those. The memories of typing card decks and "overnight batch processing."

Grad students got first dibs on the first CRT I ever heard of - we has only one on campus, but "you could type the command and actually "see" the letters on the screen." Everybody else = card decks.

Never may they return.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 30, 1998.

Never is right. Put the IBM 029 keypunch machines in the same never-never land too. Ever drop a deck without sequence numbers? shuuuddddeeerrrr.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 30, 1998.

It was bad enough when the rubber band broke _with_ sequence numbers.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 30, 1998.

ROFL. I used to put three on, and some decks were so big you had to 'cut' them. Then there would be six rubber bands.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 30, 1998.

ROFLMAO,

Our first CRT's had a 40 character per line display. Drove me nuts.

Anybody ever wire IBM 407 Accounting machines?

My first shop in the army consisted of 407's, 026 keypunch, 083 sorters, etc. Lordy Lordy, where has the time gone.

Can you say vacuum tubes and mechanical relays? I thought you could.

MVI

-- MVI (vtoc@aol.com), December 01, 1998.

Rob Cook my fellow Southerner,

Much as I respect, and have respected, your opinion; when you advocate Milne as "a person who lives what he forecasts"; man, that's bogus.

Adolph Hitler lived what he forecasted. So did the Heaven's Gate cult. Living what one preaches may preclude one from being a hypocrite, but it certainly doesn't automatically make one wise. That all depends on the wisdom of the presuppositions governing the person's behavior. And the jury's still out on Milne's presuppostions, and will be for some time. I myself am betting against what he says pretty strongly, and I ain't no idiot.

I've said it before, and I'll say it now again: Y2K is as much a matter of philosophy as it is anything else, before the fact (i.e. before it really occurs on 1-1-2000 and whatever other dates are germane). We all have pretty much the same facts, within reasonable parameters. This Internet global community has seen to it that the dissemination of information has proceeded really pretty well for those of us who want to know, who are genuinely interested. So that puts us all on a fairly level playing field, knowledge-wise.

So why the great disparity in opinions? We all have basically the same facts. I answer, it's a matter of philosophy, of world view.

Look at the argument that rages over the theory of evolution vs. creationism. Both camps have identically the same facts. But they arrive at radically different views. I see the Y2K argument in similar terms. Paul Milne and Gary North have basically the same facts that you and me do. Yet they see TEOTWAWKI (10+), and I see some pretty significant difficulties (4.5 - 6). Am I a Pollyanna? Heck no. Am I ignorant? No way. Are Milne or North ignorant? Nope. We just have differences in philosophy and world view. The same facts filter into our minds in different ways due to the divergent ways we view things in the first place.

When people understand this, there might be a bit less argument about what might happen (and it's all "might"). It'll happen as it will, regardless of opinions; actions taken will make the difference (of course opinions affect actions too, it's a can of worms).....and I don't even know how to end that sentence. (^_^)

Anyway, it's a matter of philosophy is the main point I was after....whether you think it's the Absolute End, or No Problem, or Something In Between....the facts are the facts, but there will be varying conclusions regarding them. That much is for sure, and ain't gonna change real soon.

Fighting, arguing, and name-calling will accomplish pretty much nothing -- as always has been the case

-- John Howard (Greenville, NC) (pcdir@prodigy.net), December 01, 1998.

**Anyway, it's a matter of philosophy is the main point I was after**

Philosophy won't fill your stomach. If Paul is right at least he'll eat.

-- Tired of it all (noone@home.now), December 01, 1998.

1) We used to use the seq col's for ID not seq YUCK!

2) Anyone remember 1440 running compatibility for the tab machine

3) or a 360 running 1440 compat.??

4) ZAP isn't Zero and add positive? Gee my lil green card mus be wrong......

5) NONE of you guys did HCF.............Halt and Catch Fire

Chuck

I once did something other than drive.

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 01, 1998.

PS I would, right now give my right . ... . . .. . . .... arm (had ya goin there) for the following dead or disapeared tools:

1) REAL TELCO (MA BELL) wire scisors (-2)

2 A card saw or 3 (So many uses, so few card saws)

Chuck

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 01, 1998.