My wife, children and myself are of the working class and we barely make it week to week financially. We realize the implications of Y2K fully and are believers in the Richter 12 "Earthquake Scenario." With this in mind, we realize that we must get out of the suburbs before TEOTAWAKI. If anyone has any info concerning squatting on national or state land, we would appreciate this greatly. Thank you for you time. Sincerely, Gary and Andrea Powell GPo2836837@aol.com

-- Gary Michael Powell (GPo2836837@aol.com), November 24, 1998

Answers

I'm sorry, but this kind of post bothers me.

Gary, please, think about what you are saying. Now, I don't know what suburbs you live in, what part of the country, etc. Do you really, REALLY believe you and your kids will be safer squatting in the WOODS? I know that there's a lot "head to the hills" rhetoric out there, but you don't have to take it seriously. I don't know what your neighbors are like, and whether or not y'all like each other, but if you're worried about them, worry more about whoever else would be out in those woods with you. Yeah, the idea of an extended camping trip may seem appealing compared to the "unknown familiar", but I'm sure the kids won't be all that happy about it after two days.

You may be one of those very rare resourceful families who have the skills and patience to survive for long periods of time in the wild, but I sincerely doubt it. Stay where you are. Get to know the neighbors. Save all those empty soda bottles. Buy a couple dollars worth of dried beans everytime you go shopping. Pool your resources with friends and family. Buy some non-hybrid seeds and tear down the fences between you and your neighbors. Read "Nightfall" by Isaac Asimov to see what it would be like in those woods with all the other suburbanites who try to "live off the land." Don't assume that "heading for the hills" especially if you don't know where you're going, is the only option. Believe me, Gary, you'll most likely be better off staying put.

(I must however, qualify this by saying that I DON'T know where he lives He may actually have the right idea, but I doubt it)

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), November 24, 1998.

I do not believe I was specific enough in my question-my apologies. We were planning on building a small cabin with everything to survive (drilling of a well by a friend, help in constructing the cabin and fireplaces by a friend (using stones from the surrounding area), purchasing solar if financially feasible, propane. The following was going to be donated to me by my father who still owns a fully functiong farm: some cows, chickens, pigs,3 horses and feed and hay for the animals. I served in the Rangers for eight years and my wife served in the air force for four years. I and myself were raised on farms and our children love the forest as we camp out often. My father taught me to live off of the land and I have no qualms, nor does my wife out using guns or any other types of weapons. Again, any information would be appreciated. Thank you, Andrea, Gary Powell GPo2836837@aol.com

-- Gary Michael Powell (GPo2836837@aol.com), November 24, 1998.

Check out the "mining rights" provisions for "public land." If properly homesteaded, prospecting a claim gives the right to put up a building.

Your background will help, but I won't say it could be easy. Might be better [given YOUR conditions] than covering in a downtown apartment. Different for others though.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 24, 1998.

I know you said you were a working family - looking for squatters rights, etc. - but have you considered looking in the paper for inexpensive land? Occassionally I peruse the farming/land for sale in the real estate section of the local paper (Sunday). I always see land for sale at $500 an acre. I know someone in Wisonsin who is going to look at $600 an acre property this week-end. Might be another avenue????

-- Christine A. Newbie (here@now.gone), November 24, 1998.

Do consider what close community you would like to live near, climate, resources, etc. and be sure to make new friends, if moving. Otherwise make better friends of your existing neighbors.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 24, 1998.

If I might make a slightly skewed suggestion here - have you thought about the Oregon alkali lands? They are so alkaline that not much grows - and go for $25 to 35 per acre some few years ago. All the land needs is acid - might I point out that Kentucky has a great surplus of acid in gob pits etc. from coal mines. (gob is sulfur bearing acid rock found with coal) Just get a couple of hopper cars full (gob would probably be free, send me an email and I will call a few people and try to help arrange this - I would like to see the experiment tried, and the mine owners would generally love to see someone haul the stuff away) shipping should not cost much - and then just spread and till like liming an acid soil. This might well be the cheapest way to buy land you will ever find.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), November 24, 1998.

Have you thought about setting up the cabin on your father's farm? Seems like a better place, unless there is an overarching concern. He's willing to donate teh livestock, how about letting you help him run the whole thing for an interest in the food produced, or something similar?

this would also have the advantage of providing the ability to help HIM with the farm.....

Just a thought.

Chuck

-- chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), November 24, 1998.

Paul, do you have a general location for this area in oregon? Any contacts? Sounds interesting and not too awful far from where i am now.

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), November 25, 1998.

Damion - I don't know the exact location in Oregon - it is an area of the state not a single spot. My information came from a Mother Earth News article 10 or 12 years ago, written by a fellow who moved up there and homesteaded. Bought quite a bit of alkali land for building and so on as it was so cheap - bought some better land for a garden. When I read the article I thought at once of the monster gob piles (I have actually helped build a small mountain of this stuff) in KY and figured spreading gob over the land would bring the PH down to something more neutral. I will poke around the web and see if I can find anything more about it.

Just a note: One of the best ways to make a fortune is to turn someone's garbage into someone elses' treasure.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), November 25, 1998.

How about the "kompound" in Florida.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), November 25, 1998.

One of the best ways to make a fortune is to turn someone's garbage into someone elses' treasure.

Seems like the antiques business. Interesting scam, on my Sotheby's antiques course we reviewed an auction of fine art. One picture caught my eye, a "British Impressionist" estimate $4-5000, needed cleaning $500, new frame say $1000 tops. Saw it 3 weeks later in the "International Olympia Fair" (London) for $24,000.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), November 25, 1998.

To Gary and Andrea, depending on the sort of work you do, you may be better off in y2k than those in business or "professions" who may lose their jobs more easily. NB This is not meant to be condescending.

Best Wishes

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), November 25, 1998.