Big Brother is Watching........... : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I found this at GN's site today........Pretty scary stuff

This is from WORLD NET DAILY (Nov. 23).

* * * * * * * * *

. . . The federal government wants banks to investigate you. Soon your banker will know more about you than anyone else in town. Banks must not only determine your correct identity, they must also know how you make your money, and how you spend it. Once you establish a pattern of deposits and withdrawals, banks must inform federal agencies when you deviate.

Bank customers may soon find themselves explaining to the FBI, Internal Revenue Service, and the Drug Enforcement Agency why they made a $15,000 deposit to their bank account. According to current Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation plans, banks will soon establish "profiles" of their customers and report deviations from those profiles. . . .

A recent announcement by the FDIC provides for citizen comment prior to implementation of their new banking regulations. The deadline for comments is Dec. 27, 1998.

"The FDIC is proposing to issue a regulation requiring insured nonmember banks to develop and maintain 'Know Your Customer' programs," according to a recent FDIC information package sent to Congress to provide notice of proposed rulemaking, and to banks for comment.

"As proposed," the 29-page FDIC document begins, "the regulation would require each nonmember bank to develop a program designed to determine the identity of its customers; determine its customers' source of funds; determine the normal and expected transactions of its customers; monitor account activity for transactions that are inconsistent with those normal and expected transactions; and report anytransactions of its customers that are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the FDIC's existing suspicious activity reporting regulation. By requiring insured nonmember banks to determine the identity of their customers, as well as to obtain knowledge regarding the legitimate activities of their customers, the proposed regulation will reduce the likelihood that insured nonmember banks will become unwitting participants in illicit activities conducted or attempted by their customers. It will also level the playing field between institutions that already have adopted formal 'Know Your Customer' programs and those that have not." . . .

The FDIC is selling the planned regulations by pointing out the need for prevention of financial and other crime.

"By identifying and, when appropriate, reporting such transactions in accordance with existing suspicious activity reporting requirements, financial institutions are protecting their integrity and are assisting the efforts of the financial institution regulatory agencies and law enforcement authorities to combat illicit activities at such institutions," says the FDIC.

The proposed regulation is, according to FDIC spokesperson Carol A. Mesheske, authorized by current law. It comes from the statutory authority granted the FDIC under section 8(s)(1) of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act (12 U.S.C. 18189s)(1), as amended by section 259(a)(2) of the Crime Control Act of 1990 (Pub. L. 101-647).

The FDIC claims that the law requires them to develop regulations to require banks to "establish and maintain internal procedures reasonably designed to ensure and monitor compliance with the Bank Secrecy Act. Effective 'Know Your Customer' programs serve to facilitate compliance with the Bank Secrecy Act."

The proposed regulations will mandate that all banks insured by the FDIC must maintain an intelligence gathering department that screens out customers and keeps an eye on existing customers. Before you decide to move your money to a credit union, you should know that the FDIC is not the only federal organization making such plans.

"Each of the other Federal bank supervisory agencies is proposing to adopt substantially identical regulations covering state member and national banks, federally-chartered branches and agencies of foreign banks, savings associations, and credit unions. . . .

Current customers will be subjected to the new regulation in the same way new customers will be scrutinized. The FDIC does not wish to permit any loop hole which would leave any bank customer unidentified or unsupervised.

Each bank will create profiles. The first profile will determine the amount of risk a potential customer might present by opening an account. The system of profiling potential customers will be different from one bank to the next, since the FDIC does not provide a uniform program. The purpose of the profile is to identify potential customers who might use a bank account for funds obtained through criminal activity.

The next profile will be one that is used by automated computers to determine when suspicious activity is taking place in an account. When activity in the account does not fit the profile, banks will notify federal authorities so they can investigate.

Banks are expected to identify their customers, determine normal and expected transactions, monitor account transactions, and determine if a particular transaction should be reported.

The FDIC has sent copies of the proposal to all banks and is asking for input. The questions asked by the FDIC in the proposal do not ask whether the regulations should be put into place, only how to implement them in the best way. None of the questions in the proposal are directed to bank customers. . . .

"If 'Know Your Customer' programs are required, insured nonmember banks can more easily collect the necessary information because customers cannot turn readily to another financial institution free of such requirements," stated the proposal.

Comments from the public may be sent to Robert E. Feldman, Executive Secretary, Attn: Comments/OES, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, 550 17th Street N.W., Washington, DC 20429 or faxed to (202) 898-3838 or e-mailed to


-- Craig (, November 23, 1998


Here's the link: shtml, November 23, 1998.

click here

-- Craig (, November 23, 1998.

This cannot possibly be true, can it? Let's get the facts on this -- ASAP. It needs to be verified or refuted - and quickly.


-- Arnie Rimmer (, November 23, 1998.

If true, TEOTWAKI can't come soon enough.

-- fly . (.@...), November 23, 1998.

See my post above on 11/23 FDIC worried. The person stating that things will soon change drastically is a FDIC supervisor. I do not know if the contents of your post was in part what this FDIC supervisor was referring to. I do know that this FDIC superviosr has moved completely out of stocks, 401K and IRA's. Has also paid down their debt.

I sold the last of my stock today and closed out my IRA. I must say from what I have been hearing I have no regrets.

Regards, Ed

-- Ed Stevens (, November 23, 1998.

Wonder if we could encourage big brother to watch big brother instead.

Is this a hidden Y2K benefit?

-- Diane J. Squire (, November 23, 1998.

Ain't living in a free country great???

-- Dave (, November 23, 1998.

This definitely is not good! As I read the article I kept having visions of a new government agency - the "Ministry of the Interior". Do any of you have ideas on how a person can go to a cash existence prior to Y2K?

-- Ken D. (, November 23, 1998.

Ever read George Orwell's "1984" - well, he was about 17 years ahead of himself.

And the new cashless society roller coaster gathers momentum...

Yo mama!

-- Andy (, November 23, 1998.

Ken: If by 'going to a cash existence' you mean taking all of it out of the banking system be careful of how you do it. There already are cash reporting laws. For example, all cash transactions of more than $10k must be reported to the Treasury, not by you but by the bank. This is for a cash only transaction, not checks. Who knows what Treasury does with the info.

There is also structuring which is also illegal. This is if you take $6k out one week and $4k out the next, for example. They consider this 'structuring' in order to avoid the cash reporting law above. Whatever you do don't get yourself in trouble. With Y2k, there's plenty coming for all of us.

-- Robert Michaels (, November 23, 1998.

Robert: Thanks for the info. If the government turns the banks into snooping organizations then I, for one, definitely will exit the bank with my money and my business. Now, what about cashing one's paycheck at one of those "Mr. Cash It" type businesses? Has anyone gone this route? Besides the obvious logistical problems are there any difficulties in paying all of one's bills with money orders? With cash?

-- Ken D. (, November 23, 1998.

Yep, it definitely ISN'T good. In fact it just plain sucks.

I am writing to the email address given at the end of the article (to the FDIC) and also to my senator/representative about this one. We cannot allow this to happen. It is just plain BAD.

They got us over the barrel though, or so they think.

What about those "check-cashing" services? Although way up here in the boonies I doubt we have any of them. We cannot cash our checks at local stores either (too large for them). Banks are something we all use and take for granted I guess.

Besides, what good will this do? Do they really think that the "big bad druglords" actually put their money in American banks? LOLOL....Switzerland, Zurich, the Carribbean, but not here.....duh. I mean really, come on now....

This is but another attempt to control us, to make us dependent upon "big brother" to the point of stupidity. A way to keep "tabs" on the masses. It's just plain disgusting. This is even more horrendous than the "seizure" laws are.

Solutions anyone?

This really steams me up........

-- Bobbi (, November 23, 1998.

I read this article earlier today, and two things in it stand out. The good news, as I understand it, is that these plans go back to at least 1996. So, these plans could have been conceived without Y2K in mind.

Bad news...looks like they could go into effect in early 1999...

-- Kevin (, November 23, 1998.

Yep. All we need next is a national id card.

-- Robert Michaels (, November 23, 1998.

> > html > > Colombian government declares economic emergency to stem banking > losses > > Copyright ) 1998 Nando Media > Copyright ) 1998 The Associated Press > > BOGOTA, Colombia (November 17, 1998 02:15 a.m. EST > -- Colombia's president declared an > economic emergency Monday night, unveiling a $1.6 billion bailout plan > for the country's ailing banking system. > > President Andres Pastrana said in a nationally broadcast address that > the measures were needed to protect small depositors and stave off a > more serious financial crisis. > > "If we don't act immediately ... the financial crisis could become a > catastrophe and the country could be paralyzed as if a hurricane had > hit," he said following a daylong meeting with Cabinet ministers. > > The measures must be approved by Colombia's constitutional court, > which in 1997 struck down the last attempt by a president to invoke an > economic emergency. > > Colombia's banking system lost $63.2 million in the first ten months > of the year as sharp interest rate hikes and rising unemployment led > to widespread loan defaults. In October, the government was forced to > take over one of the country's largest savings and loans. > > To protect depositors and shore up troubled financial institutions, > Pastrana announced the government would: > > -- create a new guarantee fund to insure deposits in troubled savings > and loans; > > -- provide mortgage holders with 10-year, low interest loans to help > them stay current on homeowner debts; > > -- temporarily cover mortgage payments for people who lose their jobs; > > Pastrana said he will finance the measures with a new tax on > withdrawals from savings and checking accounts. > > Note the last sentence...they " will finance the measures with a new tax on withdrawals from savings and checking accounts " The disclosure law in US banks may just be the tip of the iceberg.

-- a (a@a.a), November 23, 1998.

As I have stated before, i have no $$$ in bank no mo. And BTW, one "must have" to be watched. p.s. whatta about that stock market>?

-- consumer alert (, November 23, 1998.

If you have automatic payroll deposit, stop it now. Keep your current checking account, but deposit only enough to cover your mortgage, rent, utilities and keep the rest in ready cash and pay for everything in ready cash. If you need a money order for something, just go to the post office and get one. I am serious when I tell you all to get rid of those ATM, Safeway, Costco and credit cards. Every transaction is recorded. This is what the banks will be looking at, all daily activity of spending. If you deal in cash there's no way for them to know what you are spending your money on. If you have the money, pay down credit card debt first. There's no paper trail with cash, and no one knows how much cash you are holding. If you have some bucks in the bank, start withdrawing it slowly until your account is almost depleted. Businesses like cash because it costs them money everytime you use a credit card.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.comcom), November 23, 1998.

Robert Michaels-- here's something on the national I.D. card. Apparently our "honorable" state governors are putting together a deal with Clinton, with the privacy of the citizenry as a bargaining chip.

"The National Governors Association would like to have a national ID system, and plans to work with the White House to reinstate Executive Order 13083 to make that a reality."

Governors push national ID plan

-- Max Dixon (Ogden, Utah USA) (, November 23, 1998.

What a lot of bullsh**. I am so sick of (our?) government pressuring citizens to spy on each other. We're losing more and more of our freedoms slowly over time, because (It's the patriotic thing to do... have to fight that drug war, and gotta win it...that's more important than our freedom and our right to privacy)And what astounds me is the majority of people BELIEVE this crap. Sheesh!!!

-- Alive in 2001 (, November 23, 1998.

You already have the number.

Social Security. And it is now assigned when?

All you need is the card to be issued - and gotcha!!

Ya gotta love it folks. Ya just gotta.


-- sweetolebob (, November 24, 1998.

Sweety, I agree, this is in fact all leading up to one world order, scarey stuff huh? "if" Bill gets his way they will install the card, next come the "mark" . I am curious bardou, why are you so afraid? So what they know what we got anyhow. BTW I do agree with getting liquid. But, NOTHING can STOP the coming New World Order. It is prophecy in the making. While we "all" are concerned with y2k, we need to be concerned as well with "Where will we stand?" How many will be willing to take the mark for that needed sack of groceries. ???? Here is some food for thought...

IS it possible the y2k is a government plan to bring us into the new world order and cashless society?

I am not a fanatic, or am I paranoid, but I know prophecy fulfillment when I see it. Keep your eyes on the middle east...all is NOT well.

-- nofanofnwo (, November 24, 1998.

IMHO, Y2K is not a government plan. But, a national ID/debit card would make food and fuel rationing easier. Rights disappearing in the name of efficiency.

What are the odds that the Social Security Administration will absorb the I.R.S. and become the country's (flat tax) collector as well?

-- Kevin (, November 24, 1998.


I would put the odds at 50/50.

But, really that's looking like it will be a moot question, since neither one will get y2k compliant in anywhere near time, and will therefore become a part of yesteryear.


-- sweetolebob La) (, November 24, 1998.


The Social Security Administration just got an "A" again on Congressman Horn's Report Card. They are the largest government agency likely to take Y2K in stride.

Don't count the SSA out yet. They will be a player in however much federal government we still have in 2000.

-- Kevin (, November 24, 1998.


I don't count them out since I never under estimate my opposition in anything.

However, they must also interface with all 50 states and their respective individual computer systems in order to be effective. Then, each state must indivually interface down to county and/or city level for compliance with the directives and guidance from on high.

Since chaos will reign supreme, in that scenario, I don't really expect too much from the top tier guidance types. There simply isn't enough muscle power (military, guard etc.) to enforce much of eny thing, and even they will have concerns of their own and will therefore be less effective or cohesive in actions.

It could of course get most interesting at times, but over all i'll bet with Joe Six-Pack on this one. He has the guns, the rdios, the homefield advantage etc.

Don't sell tim short just yet.


-- sweetolebob (, November 24, 1998.


I don't count them out since I never under estimate my opposition in anything.

However, they must also interface with all 50 states and their respective individual computer systems in order to be effective. Then, each state must indivually interface down to county and/or city level for compliance with the directives and guidance from on high.

Since chaos will reign supreme, in that scenario, I don't really expect too much from the top tier guidance types. There simply isn't enough muscle power (military, guard etc.) to enforce much of eny thing, and even they will have concerns of their own and will therefore be less effective or cohesive in actions.

It could of course get most interesting at times, but over all i'll bet with Joe Six-Pack on this one. He has the guns, the rdios, the homefield advantage etc.

Don't sell him short just yet.


-- sweetolebob (, November 24, 1998.

# # # 19981124

Social Security Administration ( SSA ) depends on Treasury to WRITE THE CHECKS! Treasury is still doing lousy! They, in turn, are dependent on the power grid ( non-compliant ) and telecommunications ( non-compliant ) to function. Ergo, SSA is "toast," too!

Without the grid and telecomm, the rest doesn't matter!

Regards, Bob Mangus # # #

-- Robert Mangus (, November 24, 1998.


The SSA may pay few benefits in 2000, but it does have the personal information needed to set-up a National I.D./debit card system.

-- Kevin (, November 24, 1998.


Are you expecting power and phones to go down, and stay down?

1890's living? Deserted Cities? Unfortunately, it could happen that way. I try not to think about it too often, though.

-- Kevin (, November 24, 1998.


I agree that the SSA has the full data, but it is stored in mostly unuseable format in non compliant computers. They aren't really as ready as is presumed. And I personally feel that the fun will commence in earnest by Mar-Apr of 1999. The resultant uproar will surprise even the whips up at the top i think. We shall see at any rate. My handy -dandy little count down clock show 128 days to April 1st 1999. That is my personal "witching hour". Lord, I sure hope that I'm wrong.

I'm getting too damn old for this war crap. And I'am tired of it too.

I will be one upset native if it happens. Very upset with our elected/appointed leaders. Who won't lead us.


-- sweetolebob (, November 24, 1998.


128 Days until April 1st, 1999

Six weeks until January 4th, 1999 (1st business day of 1999).

Alan Greenspan *may* be able to keep the market afloat awhile longer. I don't think even Greenspan, though, can stop the market from taking a nose-dive in April, 1999. Y2K will be discussed near water coolers at work by then.

-- Kevin (, November 24, 1998.

Strangely enough the front page article in the UK Computer Weekly was entitled "Banking's Big Brother Option". A new system can monitor the telephone numbers dialled by customers, the places they visit and who their friends are to "build up a customer profile". These profiles will enable the bank to determine whether customers finances are out of control, their hobbies, shopping habits and lifestyles etc. It is a report on a system used by Nedcor (one of S Africa's top 5 banks). Apparently the UK hugh street banks "liked what they saw". If this information is held by banks, its only a step away from making it available to the state.

-- Richard Dale (, November 24, 1998.

I don't get all the New World Order paranoia at all. How could the NWO function if their computers don't work? Look at Russia -- no one there is worried about the government controlling their lives anymore, now they're too pre-occupied with getting enough food, not freezing to death, & not being victimized by crime. THAT's the future guys. NOT the government putting identity chips in our wrists. Wake up.

-- Ben Dair (, November 24, 1998.

You would not believe what people from all walks of life have to me for decades. Therefore I've come to expect anything from them. My conclusion is they won't quit exploiting or mistreating each other but use every tactic and new invention to do do.

Early on, I have devloped an extra-sensory perception for survival. Call it instinct or guidence from God. I started to prepare for something like Y2K more than 20 years ago without much planning on my part. About 5 years ago I told a friend that I was wondering why I moved here into the boonies, without having a job, etc. Now I know.

-- fly . (.@...), November 24, 1998.

We aren't the only unhappy campers regarding Big Brother. Opposition to Big Brother

-- Robert Michaels (, November 24, 1998.

The link above doesn't work. If this second try doesn't work I will post the url in text. Opposition

-- Robert Michaels (, November 24, 1998.

Ken, Cut up all your credit cards, except one, do NOT use unless its an emergency. (Theres a whole industry evolving around studying the credit card purchasing patterns of individual users). Keep one checking account open to pay all bills by check, deposit only enough money to cover those bills. Do not have employers direct deposit to your account. Any checks you receive from anyone, cash at their bank, not yours. If you have to have cash insurance, even to travel domestically or internationally, carry AMEX travellers checks. Encourage clients to pay in cash and receive a discount for doing so.

If your comany requires you to travel, you require a credit card in their name, have them make and pay for all the arrangements, and give you a cash advance for expenses. Cash the advance at their bank.

Begin to study the advantages of organized or personal barter systems.

nofanofnwo , But, NOTHING can STOP the coming New World Order. Y2K can.

-- posting and (, November 24, 1998.

Ok. Second try worked.

Max Dixon: Thanks for the national id card link. Worth a print.

-- Robert Michaels (, November 24, 1998.

E-mail a copy of this thread to Jesse Ventura.


-- Diane J. Squire (, November 24, 1998.

In the referenced article, the quote by the banking executive:

"He says he expects new laws prohibiting any cash transactions between individuals or companies in excess of $100"

This is unbelievable to me. But, I *do* believe it. :-(

Hubby and I are going to compose our email tonight and send to the FDIC asap.

People! Send your comments to them. If we just sit back and let them, before you know it we will all be nothing but "electronic numbers" being tracked by Big Brother.

Scarey stuff here.

I truly hope that Y2k takes care of all these idiots and their idiotic stupid un-American tactics. I truly do. This is a VERY sad day for America. My heart hurts. :-(

-- Bobbi (, November 24, 1998.

To: posting and

Now, at long last I have found someone who really understands how to conduct their affairs in private. I have played the game using these rules for years now and I can't understand why everyone else doesn't too.

I'm glad to see someone else say it too.

It really does work, and boy, does it ever screw up Big Bro.

Keep it going. Just keep it going. Maybe there is hope for this race after all.

FWIW; I'm not concerned about the NWO for now, Y2k is the primary threat to us one and all. I was just being "Devil's Advocate" and pointing out the stats as I see them now. The system is there, but the system is gonna break before it gets it's chance to work. I hope.

One war at a time: A. Lincoln


-- sweetolebob (, November 24, 1998.

"He says he expects new laws prohibiting any cash transactions between individuals or companies in excess of $100"

Sorry, that's quite a leap from the proposed FDIC action. I can't see this happening in the foreseeable future.

As a matter of fact, I don't think any of it is very workable right now. Banks have enough problems complying with current regulations that require them to report large cash transactions ($10,000+) in order to hunt down drug transactions. And from my interactions with the Feds, even when the large cash transaction reports were sent to the feds, they only had the resources and time to investigate a very small percentage of them.

If these regs go through, the problems with complying with them are another matter. Banks are not equipped with the necessary databases or software to track and report this kind of information -- it would be a major investment of money, time and man/womanhours. Nor is a bank going to turn away a good customer just because he/she refuses to tell the bank where the money came from. Plus who's to say whether or not the customer is telling the truth?. Let's pretend a bank spends lots of money to get this stuff in place and a year or two to make it work. Suddenly, the feds start getting a mountain of information every day that they are not equipped to handle. What would they do with it???

Think about it for a minute. Can you imagine getting reports on every financial transaction that falls outside of the very narrow parameters that have been defined here? Every person who loses a job will have less money flowing into their accounts and therefore get reported. Everyone who gets a raise or better job suddenly has more money flowing into their accounts and gets reported. Every investor who liquidates a stock or bond and deposits the funds gets reported. Everyone who pulls a few thousand in cash out to take that dream vacation will get reported.

Simply put, the fed would get so much information, they wouldn't have a clue as to what to do with it. They don't have the resources. Computers may be able to identify a set of parameters, but it takes people to track down and evaluate the information after it appears on a report.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason this reg has been sitting around since 1996 is because it is just too unworkable. Banks are not prepared to spend that much money to make it work and believe me they will have a say as to whether it's made law or not. I saw MANY regs get shot down just because of implementation costs.

Bottom line . . . I wouldn't worry about this one folks, at least not for now. Y2K is still the top priority for banks and the feds. Everything else will have to wait a few years.

-- David (, November 24, 1998.

Anonymous: Thanks for the suggestions. I will follow them.

SweetOleBob: What rules? How does one conduct his/her affairs in private? Are there relevant web sites describing this? Thanks in advance!

-- Ken D. (, November 24, 1998.

This is nothing new...Banks have served as arms of the IRS for years now...I have not done business with banks, or as little as possible, for about 5 years now. I don't miss them, and find them an inconvenience. Banks can still ask for more than one ID when cashing a check drawn on their banks, tender I might add...merchants at least in CA can't do this...only driver's is this possible...? Banks get away with murder. What puazzles me is why people keep submitting to their tyranny.

-- Donna Barthuley (, November 24, 1998.

* Banks get away with murder. What puazzles me is why people keep submitting to their tyranny. *

The power of brainwashing and continuous noise-like "music" to eliminate your independent thinking. Read somewhere several years ago that banks steal about USD100.000 from the average family over a lifetime.

Makes you wonder who else is doing it to you.

-- fly . (.@...), November 24, 1998.

Donna: We will not be free of tyranny until people fear slavery more than they fear the responsibility that comes with true freedom.

-- Rob Michaels (, November 24, 1998.

Matt Dixon (or anyone else?)--- Could you post the url for "Govenors push national ID plan"? Thanks.

-- Donna in Texas (, November 25, 1998.

Governors push National ID shtml

-- Laurane (, November 25, 1998.

Here is a hotlink. Laurane's works if you take out the extra space right before shtml. shtml

-- Gayla Dunbar (, November 25, 1998.

When I read that U.S. banks have to report withdrawals of $10,000 or more, I found THAT hard to believe. But this latest sounds to me more like (that dreaded-in-the-past word) Communism at its most enthusiastic! Here in Canada, the government doesn't care how much you deposit or withdraw as long as you are not withdrawing money for which you have received a tax exemption -- to my mind, as fair as any tax law can be. No wonder Canada is more sanguine about having the military called out for Y2K than those who live in "the land of the free". I just hope Big Brother doesn't take it into his mind to watch Little Sister.

-- Lois Knorr (, November 26, 1998.

Who's the dingbat that said to "mail a copy of this thread to Jesse Ventura. What would that moron do with it?

-- Anti-Chainsaw (, November 26, 1998.


Correct me if I missed something in the last election, BUT, I understand Jesse Ventura is about to be a Govenor, and it is the "Governor's" who are pushing the National ID issue. Jesse is beautifully positioned to disrupt that intention. Get it???

-- Diane J. Squire (, November 26, 1998.

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