As Jim Lord, Ed Yardeni, and others have stated, we have a Y2K leadership vacuum, both in the U.S and worldwide. President Clinton and Al Gore (Mr. Technology) have only given one Y2K speech each, and that was back in July. Oddly, we've heard more from Prime Minister Tony Blair before the G8 summit than after it. This was the same summit at which leaders mentioned urgent action on Y2K being needed.

Some attribute the 'blanket of silence' from our leaders to the fact that the world's financial markets are already on the brink of collapse, and the truth about Y2K would cause a panic and spread to the banks. Others site other reasons, though most of them involve not wanting to start a panic. In 1998, effective leadership would not have prevented Y2K, but it certainly could have lessened it's impact on all of our lives. Panic remains a possibility, many say inevitability. There is going to be a heavier price to pay later for this trade-off made today.

During Y2K and afterwards, we have speculated about the potential breakdown of Federal and State authority, and the subsequent rise of local leaders taking control. Is anyone capable of stepping up and making a difference now? Is it too late even for that?

On a lighter note, should the forum start thinking about nominating members for important positions in the future? President Yourdon? Vice President Cook? Senator Deedah? Secretary of Health E. Coli? ( I admire you all)

Is it mostly up to us, as it seems to be now... are WE the leaders?

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 20, 1998

Answers

Would that be Vice President Robert or Karen Cook? Any relationship? We would seem to have more than one cook in the kitchen.

-- David (David@BankPacman.com), November 20, 1998.

If as leaders, we are re-writing the rules, then why not Both. .

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 20, 1998.

My nominees:

Prez - Uncle Deedah (He seems like a hands-off kind of a manager, and won't that be a pleasant change!)

VP - Robert Cook, P.E. (In the techno-tradition of AlGore: our VP a P.E.? Hoowhee!)

State - Richard Dale (OK, so he's a Brit, so sue me! Richard's well-travelled and who could resist all those limerick-laced position papers from State?)

Energy - Don Kulha (Home Power Magazine dude and occasional denizen of this here saloon)

Defense - R.D Herring (Ably supported by a staff of Jack [sprat] and Bardou and Chuck and many others)

Commerce - Jim Abel (Of GLITCHPROOF fame. E-commerce maven of the first water)

I yield the floor (and part of the back wall) to my colleagues...

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.com), November 20, 1998.

I thought of Uncle Deedah having limerick chats the way FDR had fireside chats, only they would be netchats. Hardliner can be a limerick advisor unless the ambassadorship to Iraq is open.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 20, 1998.

I catagorically deny any knowledge of having two many Cook's in the kitchen - though I have had to replace a sink and fix the garbage disposal in a little room upstairs next to the garage with a microwave and peanut butter and jelly in it. Could that have been the kitchen?

I had to fix the oven somewhere close by that area, and the ice maker needed a valve job, the cabinets got refinished, and I'm making new shelves up there ..... but me?

Work in in the kitchen?

I'm not smart enough to actually work there.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 20, 1998.

[James_Carville Mode ON]

Now, Robuht, if yah gonna be VP, if ya gonna be effective, ya need to work on yah denials. Short, tuhse, to the point:

"I don't recall." "I can't remember." "I'm uncertain on that point." "Not that I recollect." "I'd have to refresh my memory."

Deny, deny, deny! That's the ticket! Then we staht in accusin' the other side of all sorts a' mischief 'n' mayhem and we home FREE, y'see? We in like Flynn, y'get it?

[James_Carville Mode OFF]

Here's hoping that Carville and his ilk are stuck some place most unpleasant when some serious Y2K failures crop up. "Hey, James, I got yer scorched earth policy right here, baby!"

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.com), November 20, 1998.

There are no leaders, we are just further down the learning curve than most. We look to Oprah to be the messenger (see Oprah thread), or Jerry, Sally, Jenny. Heck we even have Jessie "the Brain" Ventura maybe he can provide the leadership we need.

Provide information to friends and family, help them prepare. That is real leadership, on a grassroots level.

-- Bill (bill@microsoft.com), November 21, 1998.

In Buddhism Without Beliefs, by Stephen Batchelor, the Buddha is quoted (translation from Kalama Sutra):

Do not be satisfied with hearsay or with tradition or with legendary lore or with what has come down in scriptures or with conjectures or with logical inference or with weighing evidence or with liking for a view after pondering over it or with someone else's ability or with the thought "The monk is our teacher." When you know in yourselves: "These things are wholesome, blameless, commended by the wise, and being adopted and put into effect they lead to welfare and happiness," then you should practice and abide in them....

As you said, Robert, "it's mostly up to us."

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 21, 1998.

Prime Minister and Poet Laureate - Richard Dale

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), November 21, 1998.

"Provide information to friends and family, help them prepare. That is real leadership, on a grassroots level. "

Bill: That's what I and so many here have done, are doing now, and will continue to do. But there are those who feel that we shouldn't be telling folks... that it's potentially dangerous is one reason I've seen posted. You know, people coming after you for what you have since you told them and they didn't prepare. They have made their choice and it's right for them. I don't feel that way. There is always risk, and good leaders take on more than their share. We can't be leaders and hide at the same time.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 21, 1998.

Secretary of State: Robert(s) Mangus/Michaels - 2 be better than 1

Secretary of the Treasury: Nemo

Ambassador to the UN? Diane S.

Department of Education: Gayla

Secretary of Defense: Hardliner

Ambassador to Canada: Tricia (she's already there so there are no travel expenses. She seems determined to take over this place anyway so this keeps her at home.

Roving Ambassador at large? Me of course.

S.O.B.

-- sweetolebob (La) (buffgun@hotmail.com), November 21, 1998.

I suppose this means we have to divulge our "youthful indiscretions". Deedah first.

-- R. D..Herring (drherr@erols.com), November 21, 1998.

S.O.B., "Ambassador to the UN? Diane S."

That caused me to almost spray my morning coffee on the keyboard! I suspect they're as "lost" a cause as our government leaders!

I choose to be the media's "biting fly" in the Y2K ointment. I vote for grassroots, internet, Oprah, Jesse Ventura, Martha Stewart, John Glenn, Rosie ODonnel, Brad Pitt, Jane Seymour, Will Smith, etc., etc. ...

Personally I'm working on a strategic (uh, visionary) mobilize the media and luminaries plan over the next few quiet weeks, as are LOTS of other people. Everyone here and digital citizens around the globe are all playing their parts in the exponential growth of Y2K awareness repercussions.

Diane *Create Community, Prepare To Share, Be Y2K Aware*

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 21, 1998.

S.O.Bob, the whole point of having Canada take over is so that we have some place *warmer* to move to. I strenuously object to being the one required to live here. Let Craig do it, he started it all anyway; or even Chris, since she wants to move back... On the other hand, it made it back above freezing today and if the financial renumeration is good enough, I suppose I could become Tricia the Yank in Canuckland. Alright nomination accepted (just this once).

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), November 22, 1998.

Tricia, it's even COLD in Texas! Got down to 52 degrees last night. Finally got to turn off the air conditioner! :-) On a more serious note, how is your daughter?

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), November 22, 1998.

Warm climate?

Eh, is that all? I thought it was something important or difficult to do.

Just get Sasketwhatyoucallit to swap place with Mexico. Problem solved. New Brunswick can go down next to the FL coast to intercept hurricanes, Quebec can cross the Atlantic to join Europe where it really belongs, and there's lots of wasted space in Montana and North Dakota - so we'll move North Dakato over South Dakota (there redundant, so nobody important would notice) and you can slide something down to fit in there.

CA would have to go north a bit, but we'll swap you say BC for New Mexico or AZ.

Deal?

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 22, 1998.

S.O.Bob, Such kind accomodation. I don't think either Dakota is much warmer than here, though. I'm holding out for R.Cook's GA. Gayla, thanks for your concern about my daughter. She is slowly recuperating. She's 5'10" and weighed 130lb before she took ill. She lost 15lb, but she's back up a couple. She still has some collapse of her lung (a common complication to abd surgery), but that will likely resolve on its own. She's back to school, but not up to walking the 2k (approx 1 mile) to get there yet. Hopefully she'll be fully recovered by Christmas. BTW, for any who remembers my concern about my Mom being overseas when TSHTF, she's returning next month! (Yippee, hurrah!) All in all, life is looking up. Except for that huge black cloud on the distant horizon... 8-)

-- Tricia the (Yankee)Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), November 22, 1998.

I vote we annex Canada, Mexico, and the rest of Central America. That way we have plenty of fresh water (Canadian snowpack) and tropical coastline (nice weather down there), and we get Panama back. South America will be next, then we will be the United States of America.

-- Jon (jonmiles@pacbell.net), November 22, 1998.

I second the suggestion from R.D. Herring on full disclosure of "all youthful (and I'll add mature) indiscretions" from all nominees....Or else they must hold their peace on everybody else's. :)

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), November 22, 1998.

No, no, not GA - it's cold here too - got down to 38 last night.

Now, close your eyes and slowly repeat after me:

GA is cold is and wet, Saskatchewhateveryoucallit is warmer and drier, GA is cold and wet, Saskatchewhateveryoucallit is warmer and drier .....

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 22, 1998.

Robert A. Cook (P.E.)

You might as well give it up. They will never believe you about Georgia.

Whatever you do - don't let them get a copy of Ray Charles singing about the place, or let any of them hear that soft sweet accent that your ladies have. If you do, you're lost.

They live in the land of the "snow snakes" and "ice worms" and it does strange things to them. They even talk in strange (Greekenese?) sounding terms sometimes.

Try to cut a deal. They get the Dakota territories(both), and we get their Rockies, including Banff, and a few of the potatoes from the Dakotas, and they stay home. Everybody wins this way.

S.O.B.

-- sweetolebob (La) (buffgun@hotmail.com), November 22, 1998.

I gotta believe your expertise in mountains alright - being from Lousiana and all - so Dakota's go north, Banf flies south - or do we just leave it up there?

(Or is it Dakotoes ? What's the plural for something that isn't really there - a place that exists to just hold two other places apart - like OK or AR does.)

Now, what about Idaho? They have potatotes and rocks too. Which do we leave behind? Would the Canadianains find out if we didn't tell them which was still there? If we left the rocks "planted" how long before they noticed nothing was growing except more rocks? If we swapped the space in ID for the beaches in Cacun, would the new arrivals in ID worry about not having beachfront property?

Or would they just stand there in their bathing suits and say "Boy, This is some of a beach!"

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 22, 1998.

As a matter of academic interest, what's the best part of the States to live in, taking into account jobs, wealth, house prices, climate, (lack of) crime, countryside, (lack of) earthquakes/tornadoes etc etc.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), November 23, 1998.

Richard: I haven't seen anything on the net, but each year either Money Magazine or Kiplinger's Magazine (or both) runs a lead article about thissubject along with ratings that consider the items you mentioned. Perhaps you can look online for them, or at the library, or contact them directly.

Hope this helps.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 23, 1998.

Richard, California of course. We have it ALL. (And often take it all over the top, but one good earthquake settles us down again).

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 25, 1998.

From what I hear, Richard, it's the Pacific Northwest...Oregon and Washington. At very least I'd consider N. California...

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), November 25, 1998.

Uh - Diane, check out the Drudge report web site - he has a link to the earthquake report - you guys are averaging 58 quakes per day, and are getting a new volcano up near Yosemite.

CA? Been there, Donner that, not there anymore. (6 years Vallejo, just south of Napa.)

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 25, 1998.

Richard Dale - Where is the best place in the U.S. .... What about action, excitment, fun? To get relocated properly might take you a year. Just in Time. Any of the big cities in Texas have equal numbers of hispanics, blacks and whites. Lots of resentment and plenty of guns so take your pick, come on down and be sure and bring all your money(cash).

-- Bored now but not in 1 year (guess@where.com), November 25, 1998.

Richard, I second what Donna said: the Pacific Northwest. The weather tends to be cool and cloudy with frequent rain showers, but conditions are generally mild. The hills are green, rivers and streams are abundant, and there are vast evergreen forests. Most anything is easy to grow there in the valleys. Orchards and dairies are common.

BTW, I've met more ex-pat Brits there than anywhere else.

-- Max Dixon (Ogden, Utah USA) (Max.Dixon@gte.net), November 26, 1998.

As a Canadian, I emailed most of our politicians no response other than the Mayor of Calgary and 3 of his staff. The provincial government has a disaster plan and their head guy even suggested I call him. If a politician comes out now with this "crazy y2k talk" he pisses on the parade, low unemployment, over-valued stock market, anon. When it is fashionable say next May, these cheeseheads we elect will shake off the mold.

To all you Americans, we ain't trading any territory. I go next week to find my y2k retreat and I have a lot of great places to choose from within 5 hours from home. What a Country this Canada.

-- Rick Reilly (rreilly@shaw.wave.ca), November 26, 1998.

Oh come on, Rick, Yukon do it....8<)

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), November 27, 1998.

Robert,

"Uh - Diane, check out the Drudge report web site - he has a link to the earthquake report - you guys are averaging 58 quakes per day, and are getting a new volcano up near Yosemite."

Yep. Mammoth, I hear. Makes Y2K look like a little speck on the horizon. That's why so many out here wear roller blades -- keeps us moving with the ground, uh, times. There are, however "islands" of peace in CA.

Not in pieces yet. (Give me an earthquake not a tornado or hurricane any day -- just not today -- she says, coffeeeee cupppp rattlingggg).

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 27, 1998.