I ran into someone that I was telling about Y2K a few months later and asked about what he was doing (he was interested in finding out more). His answer: 'I left my wife (and two kids) after meeting this wonderful girl and am now living with her.' In talking to him more he said that since Y2K is TEOTWAWKI, he wants to have as much fun as possible! I wanted to puke. He is 41 going on 14. My reaction to him (after I settled down a bit) was the old saw 'what goes around, comes around'. He didn't like that at all. Good. I have talked to many people about Y2K and have had many different reactions but this one really was bizarre... using Y2K as an excuse to run away from whatever problems he had and leaving three ruined lives in his wake. If you have experienced any really strange/sad/funny reactions would you share them here?

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 13, 1998

Answers

I have given up warning people. Some of the responses : "If the year 2000 comes and nothing happens I will laugh at you!" "Now I know where to go (my place) if it's really bad!" "Are you insane?" "You are so naive!" Much eye-rolling, caughing, looking at the floor, don't bother us with that stupid y2k problem again attitude. I could go on and on.

My succes rate would be about 5% for now. A big problem is that here in Belgium the problem is ridiculed. * News items about it are announced with a smile (The same smile you see when there's an item about ufo's or mad monks). * Economical, political, sociological forecasts never mention y2k. * Nobody talks about it, thus nobody talks about it.

Frustrating ...

-- Koen Samyn (koen.samyn@barco.com), November 13, 1998.

The problem was ridiculed by managers/politicians and others who make decisions, thats why it wasn't solved years ago. Mind you the designers still have a lot to answer for.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), November 13, 1998.

I would have preferred ridicule to him saying 'I'll look into it and then finding out a few months later what happened. I wish that when I told him he ROTFL, although there is no doubt that he would have done this anyway eventually... Y2K was just one (of several) excuses. Correction: I posted three ruined lives... it should have been four to include him. He just doesn't know it yet.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 13, 1998.

Koen, When they say "they will know where to come", they aren't kidding. Keep your mouth shut or be prepared to shoot the people you tell about your preparations.

I have read about marriges failing due to arguments over what to do for y2k, but not to leave for a younger piece. I am guessing you friend was taking advatage of your concern for y2k when he told you the "reason".

My wife says 200lbs. of rice is enough, but at $11/50lb. bag, I can't help myself when I am at Costco. Other than that, she's fine with the preparations we have made.

-- Bill (bill@microsoft.com), November 13, 1998.

Koen: Congratulations on a 5% success rate, you are doing as good or better than most (sad). Stock up on those wonderful chocolates!

Richard: There is plenty of blame to go around.

Bill: You may have a point about 'taking advantage'. Isn't Costco wonderful? Generac 6250 5kw for $479.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 13, 1998.

Robert,

maybe we will see more of this escapism in the next months. It has some dangerous side-effects ,IMHO. Crimes could go up, more social conflicts (work, home, ... ) This could build up a lot of tension before the main event.

-- Koen Samyn (koen.samyn@barco.com), November 13, 1998.

Robert,

When you see your 'friend' again, ask him to convey to his new girl friend our pity, and a warning to think to her future. His wife is better off without him, although it surely doesn't feel that way now. It's a terrible thing to discover such an odious creature lurking in the person of your husband, but better to find out now than when she's really depending on him.

Ick!

-- Arewyn (nordic@northnet.net), November 13, 1998.

"Crimes could go up, more social conflicts (work, home, ... )" Interesting Y2k could become the latest excuse for crime, instead of its a fair cop "but society (or racism or whatever) is to blame" it'll be y2k's fault or those bl**dy geeks.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), November 13, 1998.

Koen: I think you may be on to something too with this relationship between escapism/crime. All tension has to be released, which can manifest itself in countless ways. If folks are in a full panic there is a higher chance IMHO that they would behave irrationally (not that most people behave rationally now). The pressure to do something... anything... can be powerful as the tension builds.

Arewyn: "Ick"... I couldn't have said it better! I have nerver met this 'new girlfriend' but I do know the wife and kids - mine are the same age and they have played together... they are all really nice folks and don't deserve what's happened. I called her to console her and she told me that they were 'in the middle of preparing' when he left... She now has an antique (and functional) woodstove that he left partially installed (they can't use it yet). She knows that she is better off without him but is mainly concerned for her two beautiful kids. Laywers and school couselors... God what a mess. What do you say to a child when they ask questions for which there aren't good comfortable answers... like when mine asked "Daddy, is the President a liar". Sorry, i'm starting to loose it. If I ever do meet the other woman (which I doubt) you can be sure I'll let her have it.

Richard: Scapegoats are always needed. If a valid one does not exist, it would most likey be necessary to manufactuer one. "There's some IT Managers - Off with their Heads".

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 13, 1998.

I was talking to a friend last night who is the Captain of a corporate jet, and I asked him if the GPS unit in the aircraft was going to work after the roll-over next Aug. He was not aware of the GPS problem, and said "..we pay thousands of dollars to xxxx to make sure the unit works....". I then asked him if he was going to fly after 1/1/00, if his computer laden bird wasn't compliant, and his response was "..this 2000 stuff is just scare tactics, it's not going to be as bad as everyone thinks, and I'll just fly the s.o.b. by hand if I have to. Besides, if it gets that bad, I can just retire!" I didn't even try to explain that there just =MIGHT= be no business =flying= if his company has no =business=, or that retirement $$$$ may not be there in 2000. He is a dear friend and I don't want to see him run out of ideas, altitude, airspeed, and computers simultaneously, lest the ground rise up to meet him, but what can you do when denial gets in the way? This is an educated man, on an acreage waaaay out in the country, has his own well, a paid-for home, an arsenal, and I'm guessing here, no food stored, based on his statements about scare tactics, etc. I try to get through, but denial sets in, and it's like talking to a wall. Nothing new here, just venting...my spouse is of a similar mindset, and thinks it will all be fixed by then......413 days and counting.... \/\/illis in OKC, OK @ 10:11 am cst 11/13/98

-- Willis Thomason (BANDIT1@ontheroad.com), November 13, 1998.

Willis: I too have a good friend who is in a similar position... lives out in a rural area, has a well, small-time agriculture etc. and does not get it. Like your friend, he is frequently on airplanes (due to business) and spends weeks, sometimes months in the far east and the UK. The only thing that comforts me is that he and his family are in a great area so when TSHTF at least that part won't be of concern. FWIW, most of the few times I have gotten through to folks is when I use the insurance example (we insure against uncertaiinties like a car accident or house fire, so why not prepare some Y2K insurance since the year 2000 is a certainty... barring Divine intervention. Anyway, I would not categorize your friend's reaction as bizarre, Fact is, it's typical. I started this thread in the hopes of finding other examples of non-typical reactions, especially ones that are unusual. As far as our friends, since they are good friends, let's not give up. Pushing won't work, but patience may. Only problem is patience, by definition, takes time.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 13, 1998.

Some of the people you think should be interested in learing about Y2k are the ones who show the least reaction and those who you think have read nothing on the computer, often instinctively know that something is wrong and can be potentially dangerous to them. There are those who really think and worry and prepare and there are those who don't want to change anything about their lives, which might force them to think and make decisions. Some are natural cynics about how poorly government accomplishes anything generally and they tend to take more responsibility for themselves. Others who could be natural leaders like my nextdoor neighbor who is a pastor, only say "God will provide - he has done so in the past", are shirking their roles by not thinking and only relying on their God, who has already given them many examples in the bible or self-reliance.....Strange who listens and who doesn't - is not logical - does not compute.

-- Laurane (familyties@rttinc.com), November 13, 1998.

Laurane: You make a good point regarding being surprised about who we think will get it and who actually does. It isn't logical, but neither are so many things in life. someone said truth is stranger than fiction. Guess that applies with Y2K too, in spades. For most folks, Y2K is fiction. When I listen to what I'm telling people even I think it sounds like fiction... science fiction. So, not only can we be surpised (or shocked) by a persons reaction, but we are sometimes clueless in even our anticipations regarding who may/may not get it.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 13, 1998.

I have a brother-in-law I've been trying to get motivated and interested in preparing for y2k but I've come to realize it will take disruptions to get that done.

The man is an educator currently teaching high school. He's been a successful football and baseball coach and recently he began working some nights as a "casual" long shoreman in the Port of San Pedro here in Southern California. Yet, all I ever get is "they'll fix it", "they wouldn't let this happen", etc.

The last conversation I had with him regarding y2k was the most interesting. I had tried to touch upon the fact that y2k may well disrupt the school system, disrupt his income, disrupt the state and local governments... his response,

"Well, IF it happens, hey I can always just work down at the docks! You should see all the ships that come in there every day. Thousands and thousands of containers with stuff from all over the world."

I didn't have the heart to go into shipping and manufacturing. He'll get it eventually.

Mike ==========================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), November 13, 1998.

Mike: Your brother-in-law may have given you a Y2K clue as to how to get through. Some people respond best to things that they are personnally familiar with (shipping). Have you considered printing out a couple of North's shipping category links and getting them to him in a roundabout way? His reaction is also pretty typical. At least you have 'sensitized' him to the subject so that "eventually" may be sooner rather than later. Just for grins, if you post again would you tell me if, before you ever talked with him, you thought he would get it or not.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 13, 1998.

My boss said, and I quote:

"If you get caught up in the Gloom and Doom, you lose track of what's important."

errrrr HUH!?!?!

He's clearly from the YupYup school of management

C

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), November 13, 1998.

I consider this truly bizarre.

I have a "been there, done that together,without hesitation die for" friend from times past in southeast Asia. He has knowingly chosen to spend his life as a hard core, case-and-a-fifth, everyday, all day alcoholic. I'm sure his liver resembles a mass of golf balls and he often seems as disconnected from reality as he'd like to be.

With a great deal of trepidation, I broached the subject of Y2K last March. To my utter and everlasting astonishment and gratification, he listened to every word, asked for explanation where appropriate and accepted it all as a working assumption. I was sharing quarters with him at the time, and I was truly amazed to see him scrutinize each news broadcast and newspaper for evidence that I was wrong. About a month later, he took me to his tool shed and showed me a two man logger's saw and asked me if I thought it might come in handy. He could hardly stand up, but there was clearly intelligence and understanding in his words and in his eyes.

He still lives in beer cans and whiskey bottles, but the knowledge of Y2K is surely in there with him. Even the booze has not dulled his wits and he currently staggers through each day as before, but usually, he does some small thing, like telling his wife (another hard core alky), "This is for when TSHTF, can't neither of us touch it!"

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), November 13, 1998.

I don't see this reaction as escapism. Denial in the face of such a profound ontological challenge is quite a different matter. Many people simply cannot conceive of the possibility that the world they are used to may disintegrate. No doubt some few subliminally do recognize that possibility but can't bear the idea of presiding at the disassembly of their internal world-- which is exactly what those who are getting ready are in process of doing.

I don't like this situation, it's giving me fits in a subdued way -- but we're in it. I'd a lot rather feel a little foolish on my 75th birthday ( May, 2000) if nothing too disastrous has happened, than realize I could have done something but now it's too late to try.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 13, 1998.

Chuck: ?!?!?!?! is right. Isn't there a Y2K DUH site that posts quotes. Seems like you have at least a viable candidate with what your boss said.

Hardliner: Interesting post. Why does he get it? I don't know either. Is it because he is sometimes 'as disconnected from reality' as he wants to be that he can listen to you about Y2K... after all,when first hearing about Y2K most folks would not consider it as part of reality... it's too nuts and sounds really crazy . Bizarre is right.

-- Robert MIchaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 13, 1998.

On reading Tom's reply, I realized that I'd not made clear that my friend did not become an alcoholic in response to Y2K, he has been there for years.

BTW, Tom, I agree with you, if he had started drinking in response to Y2K awareness, I'd not think it escapism either. I see becoming an alcoholic as a "somewhat" more rational response to Y2K than denial.

Or, have I completely misunderstood you, Tom?

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), November 13, 1998.

Talking to people about Y2K is like telling people who smokethat smoking causes cancer. Some people will listen and some won't. As for the guy who left his wife and 2 children for some sweet honey, I wish the worst for him and his love.

-- Bardou (Bardou@baloney.com), November 13, 1998.

Keep trying folks. I know people who looked at me like I was crazy a month ago who are now asking questions. Of course, it could be because they have appointed me Y2K "czar" of the company! Today on my way out I was talking to our Oracle DBA and our Senior Systems Analyst. They're "getting it" but they haven't quite gotten there yet. I see it in people's eyes now. Alot more people are mulling it over.

-- Buddy (DC) (buddy@bellatlantic.net), November 13, 1998.

I think that the thing that's weirded me out the most so far have been the number of folks who are seeking to remain intentionally ignorant - they wont even bother to read the information and think about it for themselves.

....also have had several folks simply *stop* associating with/ talking to me - especially after they discovered that other folks I'd talked to had begun to take the problem seriously - it seemed as though they were attempting to avoid 'contamination' or something...again, intentional ignorance.

now I think I know a little of what Jeremiah felt like. Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), November 13, 1998.

Bardou: Buddy makes a good point. Even though some get it and some don't, more and more will start getting it. My cousin has been an accountant for 20 years. I talked with him about Y2K in the summer. He shrugged it off. Two weeks ago he told me how he entered a date in his sw package with a year of 99 and his pc locked up. He contacted the vendor who sent him a newer version. Point is, now he gets it. Big Time.

Maybe we should add another category (ED Yardeni won't mind hopefully) called forget it's...people who llisten and shrug it off, forget it for a while, and then turn into get its. Then we'll have get its forget its and don't get its

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 13, 1998.

Arlin: Jeremiah had plenty of company as I recall. Noah comes to mind. I have also experienced "intentional ignorance". It hurts. Especially when it's someone you really want (or need) to get it. One friend told me that at least in some cases, people who didn't get it are scared because they are in no position to help themselves (no money for example) and so they just turn it off... and it's always easier to do nothing than to get motivated, think, plan, and do the hard work that we call preparation.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 13, 1998.

>> Jeremiah had plenty of company as I recall. Noah comes to mind. I have also experienced "intentional ignorance". It hurts.<<

Come on, now, don't you get it? You are Y2K evangelists! You've been converted and now wonder why everyone else cannot immediately see the light. The process and the results and the feelings are very similar to speaking to someone about Christianity. Perhaps some of you now have just a glimpse of the Christian's motivation.Your Bible will also tell you how to deal with the feelings and those who reject your message.

-- Elbow Grease (Elbow_Grease@AutoShop.com), November 14, 1998.

A friend of mine (who 'got it' right away), said "Won't it be a cheese-off if the 'eat, drink and be merry' folk were right all along?" I guess the message to me is to enjoy the journey NOW whenever now might be.

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), November 14, 1998.

Feeling like Noah?? - couldn't have a better example.

ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED FROM NOAH'S ARK

1. Plan ahead. It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark.

2. Stay fit. When you're 600 years old, someone might ask you to do something REALLY big.

3. Don't listen to critics -- do what has to be done.

4. Build on high ground.

5. For safety's sake, travel in pairs.

6. Two heads are better than one.

7. Speed isn't always an advantage. The cheetahs were on board, but so were the snails.

8. If you can't fight or flee -- float!

9. Take care of your animals as if they were the last ones on earth.

10. Don't forget that we're all in the same boat.

11. When the doo-doo gets really deep, don't sit there and complain -- shovel!!!

12. Stay below deck during the storm.

13. Remember that the ark was built by amateurs and the Titanic was built by professionals.

14. If you have to start over, have a friend by your side.

15. Remember that the woodpeckers INSIDE are often a bigger threat than the storm outside.

16. Don't miss the boat.

17. No matter how bleak it looks, there's always a rainbow on the other side. Sent By Mailto:nancyb@enol.com

-- Laurane (familyties@rttinc.com), November 14, 1998.

I find it easier to grab someone's attention by going in the back door. My Mom is good at bringing up the subject. Last time I commented that the actual money in the banks only adds up to 1-2% of what's on paper. Then I said, Just 'what if" enough people start to hedge their bets in the last quarter of 99. Most will be out of luck when the cash dries up. So, I said I was taking an extra ten or twenty and putting it in the drawer every time I went to the grocery or money machine. After all, what could it hurt? Got a lot of head nodding on that one. Mostly, though, I just say that I am not at all comfortable that everything will get done. I say that I have serious doubts about the supply chain interruptions causing panic, and then what will I have? I just kinda play it like, what choice do I have? Gosh, it could be awful. I just have to do something. Then more people than not will have some sort of light go off in their eyes. Low key, covering my behind seems to work.

-- margie mason (mar3mike@aol.com), November 14, 1998.

My favorite reaction, while visitng a friend: "Art, sit down a minute; look, we're all startin to worry about ya. First, you become a vegetarian; next you get a divorce, and now you're talkin about this y2k shit. We're startin to think you're going off the deep end! Now look...(reaches over and flicks the light switch)..How many times in your life have you not been able to do that? ......When I started laughing, he lit a cigar and blew smoke at me...he knows they make me sick............................Another one I noticed is the 3 steps back response. If you are talking to more than one,sometimes one will step back to get a wider scope...

-- Arthur Rambo (buriedtreasure@webtv.net), November 14, 1998.

I'm part of a Y2K task force at work. (They actually call it that.) Most of these people have a hard time believing that any of OUR stuff will stop working. When I read a letter I got from the Mayor about the city's Y2K preparations, half of them just grinned and shook their heads like I was some kind of an idiot for writing to ask. One other guy in the group is preparing - he got the message at church. One of our managers is straddling the fence. The rest of them don't have a clue, other than thinking it might cause some minor problems, or be a legal hassle.

I've been in similar situations before and learned form them. I've overcome the urge to go out and tell the world. If they ask, I tell them what I think. Otherwise, I'll take care of me and mine, and let them figure it out for themselves.

Maybe I'm lucky. Every time I test a PC and watch the clock roll over from 1999 to 1900, I think how serious the whole thing could be. How many people get to see that time after time like I do?

-- Mike (gartner@execpc.com), November 14, 1998.

when ever I am at a family gathering and having conversations , some one always seem to make an opening for me to talk on the subject of Y2K. one time me and my brother in-law were talking about Y2k and then were joined by three other family members, with in a few minutes they all turn on me, telling me that this is a bunch of baloney, and how easy it going to be to solve all the problems that will arise, etc. Talk about a lonely feeling... then something miraculous happened , all the information,from articles I've read and tapes I listen too, started to pop in my head and then I turn the tables on them and started asking them questions and putting taughts in there minds which I could see by the looks in there eyes and by there silence that they did not have the answers to my questions. Well I noticed that one family member slip away then another before you know it , I was only talking to one person and then he proceded to walk away but I followed him and I was able to talk to him for another half hour and give more things to think about, I believe he will be joining the ranks of Y2ker's very soon. I also have able to share Y2k with some co-workers at the big P.O. and I have been surprised by the response. A small following is developing and people are asking for more information. people are listen to tapes,coping web-site info., target practicing,purchasing gold and silver and reevaluating their retirement plans. That has really been an encouragement to me and it has given me a great feeling inside and by the looks in their faces I can tell they really appreciate the info. I've given them , but some carriers are too macho to show it. Thanks! Dave

-- david (pingpongdave@dreamsoft.com), November 15, 1998.

Even though my husband now believes and is going along with preparations here at home, I still can't have any meaningful discussions with him (it's Sunday and he's spending the day praparing the old fireplace for the insert that will be installed next week.) He's not balking at anything I propose for preparations, he just goes along but keeps quiet. It's very lonely feeling for me. I think I was right, his previous denial was a way to shield himself from the pain, and now his keeping quiet and not discussing it serves the same. But at least he's acting, at home and at work. He's hired a new y2k consultant 2 weeks ago, a consultant also hired by the university that is his main construction client. Up untill then he kept saying he was y2k compliant and explaining what he had done. I could see that he was nowhere ready, with no contengency plans etc. I kept on firing at him all I had learned about business compliancy and it finally reached him. I think the fact that the university sent him a letter questioning him about his compliancy probably was the 4x4 that hit his forehead about his work, but I had him prepared. Otherwise I'm sure he would have responded to the university the same responses he had given me, instead of re-evaluating what I had warned him about and hire one of the consultant they use. He's upgrading all computer equipment and software now. I haven't gone into details with him, i'm just trusting he's following this consultant's recommendations and that this guy knows what he's doing.

-- Chris (Catsy@pond.com), November 15, 1998.

Hardliner asks

Or, have I completely misunderstood you, Tom?

Actually, you have. Also actually, I should have specified what I was answering. It was not your post about your alcoholic friend, but the topic proposed for this thread, Strange Reactions When We Tell Folks.

You made it clear that your buddy's condition started long before, and had nothing to do with Y2K. That reminds me though-- there'll always be a demand for poteen -- I wonder if anyone is thinking about setting up to produce the home-made version?

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 15, 1998.

Tom Carey: I agree with your very eloquent (first) posted answer. Perhaps I was not very clear myself. He is trying to escape his family obligations and responsibilities. Period. Y2K was just an additional reason (excuse) that he is using to justify this abhorrent behavior to himself. He is not in Y2K denial, and 'got it' very quickly.

Regarding your astute remark that people 'cannot conceive of their world (as they know it) disintegrating': I am not a psychologist , quite obviously, but I know that people do not like change. Ironically, human nature itself does not change IMHO. This exacerbates trying to deliver a message of significant change affecting many, if not all, areas of what we have taken for granted as normal. Denial.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 15, 1998.

Just had a cafe latte down at the local coffee hang out. One customer had a nifty new toy, a wireless unit, attached to his laptop computer. He was online playing a game of chess with some remote person. I asked him if he was relatively internet proficient, He said yes and proceeded to discuss his computer and Silicon Valley credentials. I then asked What do you think of the Y2K situation? After giving me a blank look, he said I havent looked into it. Isnt it just a lot of hype and scare? I proceeded to explain some of the things Id discovered over the past month, including military preparedness actions of Canada and the U.K. memo leaks. No reaction. The only thing that caused a glimmering of interest in him was concern over the nuclear arsenal. Otherwise, at this timing, this internet and computer savvy person, thinks Y2K is a No thing.

*Sigh* -- Im still convinced that upcoming events and the medias reaction will determine the level and kind of Y2K public awareness and preparation that can occur in this country. At least we can continue doing our Y2K homework and preparation, to be ready, and to help people when they finally start asking for it.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 15, 1998.

Strange responses: I casually brought up the subject of y2k (non)compliancy to a friend a couple of weeks ago. Told her to look it up on the internet. Today, I ask her if she ever had the time to do so. Her response was immediate laughter. Additionally, she mentioned that she brought me up in other conversations that she had - all in joking concern. Perhaps I have found and joined a new cult? will be moving to northern new mexico? all of this in laughter - of course.

-- Christine - a.newbie (vaganti01@aol.com), November 15, 1998.

I find that people who blow off my initial approach and warning regarding y2k, don't seem to continue with that attitude for very long. Once I have brought it to their attention, they seems to become mentally keyed into noticing the subject when it appears from other directions. When they have it stuck in their face once, they start paying attention. You prime them to be responsive to things they would normally have passed up. The y2k panel shows for example. Or those newspaper articles about the "extremists" preparing. They stop chuckling, very quickly, once they have the "other" version in their heads to compare against.

Don't let fear of riducule stop you from helping friends become aware. I'm sure they will soon come to thank you for doing so.

Me.

-- Floyd Baker (fbaker@wzrd.com), November 15, 1998.

Diane: I have noticed something that I think is interesting about folks that earn a living working with computers (or are otherwise computer savvy) and thier Y2K reactions. IF they are actually working on Y2K then chances are that they are'get its'. If they are dinosaurs (like myself) who have been programming 20 or more years they also tend to 'get it'. On the other end, the techno-weenies just out of school for a few years, at least in my experience, do Not usually get it. In telling others about Y2K, including leaders in my church and community, I make it clear to them to ask for others opinions and look into it for themselves. I also make it clear who they should/should not ask.

Cristine: I have heard that when people are uncomfortable they may laugh as a response. Ridicule is something else entirely .' Wipe the dust from your feet' and go to the next person. If they change the tune they are singing and you think you can help, then help.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 15, 1998.

Robert,

I have had the same experience as you've had with regard to the "Newbie Techno Weenies".

My previously referenced alky friend has a son who is a recent (2 years ago) honors graduate of the aeronautical engineering program at the university he attended. He is currently employed by an aerospace/defence contractor and is heavily involved with engineering/programming in C.

He listened to his dad and me, simply because he'd been taught to respect his elders and grant courtesy as the default.

But, he didn't believe a word and he still doesn't. (It may have something to do with his age, inexperience and the fact that he still thinks he's bulletproof. . .)

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), November 15, 1998.

Hardliner: Glad to see that someone besides myself has noticed this... maybe there really is something to it. Seems like it. As far as being young and inexperienced: yeah, you don't get middle aged people to charge across a battle field when the kim chee is flying, you get 18 year olds candy butts - they are immortal.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 15, 1998.

Why should anybody believe what you say about y2k, when their fantasy figures, substitute heroes, national leaders, corporate officers, et. al. appear to be unconcerned about.

So, why are most of are our leaders so quiet about this? What is their motif? Guilt, conspiracy, fright, lawyers?

-- Creature (animal@zoo.net), November 15, 1998.

Creature: The most often cited reason that I have heard is that they are afraid of a panic. Most folks are followers, not leaders. So, when the leaders say jump, the repsonse is 'how high'. When they say 'don't worry, Be happy, many if not most listen... it's also what people WANT to hear, as opposed to what they NEED to hear. But reality does not care.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 15, 1998.

Some of the things I've heard people say aren't "strange" reactions, but are interesting on how denial works. One friend of mine didn't want to talk about it because, as he put it, he doesn't know anything about computers and wouldn't understand what I said.

Another friend really didn't want to talk about it because, he said, there wasn't anything he could do about it if they were behind in getting the computers fixed. I asked him if he'd do nothing if he knew a hurricane or tornado was going to hit his area.

Another common reaction I've seen is the people who say the problem has already been taken care of. Why do they think this? Because their credit cards with post-1999 expiration dates always work now.

Then there was the guy at the county clerk's office--a programmer who had recently fixed the 9/9/99 glitch in auto registration. He thinks Y2K is a non-event because, in his opinion, the only way Y2K could hurt the electric utilities and phone companies was in billing. He was absolutely positive that Y2K will not impact the flow of electricity or the ability to make a phone.

As they say, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.....

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), November 15, 1998.

Robert, in other words we don't have any leaders? We only have overpaid illusionists, tricksters and smoke and mirror experts?

No wonder Hitler came to power.

-- Creature (animal@zoo.net), November 15, 1998.

Creature: No ,there are always true leaders, and sometines heros. Past and present. Ancient Rome had Cicero. America has a long list, as do the other approximately 180 countries now on the planet So who is leading now? let me think............ still thinking.............. stilll thinking......................still............

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 15, 1998.

Robert

(To you, In a sort of bastard Haiku)

Good Times loves politicians,

Tough times beget leaders.

Now is good times

The surplus of politicians.

And the lack of leaders

Some leaders

have their own agenda,

however.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 15, 1998.

Uncle: I am honored by your contribution, and am pondering the poem.

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 15, 1998.

I am of the same age as this "techno-weenie" generation you speak of, though not a techno weenie myself. You are absolutely right that the general members of the tw generation does not see y2k as a problem. More specifically, they cannot comprehend the problem. What, in our lifetime, has occurred of any major catastrophic importance? Everthing is made plastic, disposable - not to mention cheaply replaced. This dreaded millenium bug should be a no-brainer fix too. (Not my beliefs but those of many of my generation).

Okay, so I'm a little cynical about people in general. Don't worry, I don't have much dust on my feet. I've got too far to go to stop and gather dust. Besides, where would I put it? I'd rather use the buckets for my food storage.

-- Christine - a.newbie (vaganti01@aol.com), November 15, 1998.

Cristine: No bout adout it, tiimes been good. I don't like generalizations usually, but I have been surprised at the number of folks (like my parents) who grew up when the pendulum was at the other end..... THEY GET IT. They told me about the Great Depression and I listened. Heck, I'm telling mine now about it (since they don't teach history any more... they are too busy re-writing it to make it politically correct. Uh Oh... where did I put that flame retardent suit?

-- Robert Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), November 16, 1998.

OK

REAL HAIKU:

Why 2k forum

Seeing beyond what most do

Fall ends, winter soon.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 16, 1998.

The snowflake patterns

Big man comes out, to take charge

All is as it was

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 16, 1998.

The ones who know best

Tell us all not to worry much

Go back to sleep now

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 16, 1998.

Eternal resting

Head on pillow, snuggle deep

Like rest of world, sleep

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 16, 1998.

Stirring as I wake

Oppressive clouds above sink

Thinking No way out

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 16, 1998.

A cage for man fits

His mind if not his nature

Free your love up now

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 16, 1998.

Awareness prospers

Effort has not gone in vain

Sinking in, minds open

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 16, 1998.

Hand of god, waiting

Mix-master of messiness

see's who is ready

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 16, 1998.

Deedah's been bitten Poetry bug strikes again Help! need asylum

And so do we all Y2k looms hugely Will it bring darkness?

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), November 16, 1998.

Simple man of good

Listened, and heeded foresight

Guided by reason

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 16, 1998.

Now he's overcome / Poetry bug dead and gone / Deedah safe and sound Help! I greatly fear / poetry 'flu here abounds / I am in its toils!

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), November 17, 1998.

A squirrel busy

Ready soon for the harsh storm

Dreaming of rainbows

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 17, 1998.

The toiling ant slaves

Cannot see the foot looming

Change comes to their world

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 17, 1998.

Borrowing from my wife who I believe borrowed from Alan J. Ram from Westfield Academy:

the Spoor

of an Elephant

is Relevant

Only to an Ant

or a Sycophant.

cr

yeah it's a repeat but I don't do rhyme or reason, unless it the rime of ice in season.

cr

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), November 17, 1998.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me,

Than a frontal lobotomy.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 18, 1998.

Back to Haiku:

The chilled mug sparkles

At an angle, pour gently

The bubbles rising

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 18, 1998.

When called by a panther, don't anther - Ogden Nash Too bad this won't work on Y2k.

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), November 18, 1998.

Uncle Deedah who was once thought/

in posting rather fraught/

has now succumbed to it/

and become another poet /(ouch)

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), November 18, 1998.

Yesterday in the early morning sky/

A large meteor falling I did espy/

It shot through the air/

like a carnival flare/

It lasted only a brief time/

An arc of colours sublime/

I wonder who else apart from me/

Happened to look up and see/

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), November 18, 1998.

The clearing mind sees

That which was hidden from view

Take time for your life

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 25, 1998.