Best ( priced, make & caliber ) multi-purpose long rifle? : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

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Best ( priced, make & caliber ) multi-purpose long rifle?

I'm considering a ( lightweight ) .22 caliber. Lightweight ammo, easy to find, and least expensive. Will I be able to take down decent sized ( <= 200 lbs. ) critters, though? ( Something my 102 lb. wife could handle gracefully? )

Best bang for the dollar is what I'm looking for.

I want to make thise gun purchase quickly. The government is on a Big Brother rush to register all future gun purchases. In the Y2K worst case scenario, declaration of illegal Martial Law could confiscate ( registered and unregistered long ) guns -- nullifying the Second Amendment, our last line of self-defense.

The first part of the item below is TRUE, the second part is JUST A SPOOF. Nevertheless, the "Bastard in Chief" is really doing this. The next thing you know, he will be try to control the private gun sales we conduct at our kitchen tables -- pre- & post-Y2K.

Regards, Bob Mangus

Clinton Directive Targets Gun Show Loophole

Associated Press Sunday, November 8, 1998; Page A07

President Clinton set in motion yesterday a tightening of the Brady law aimed at stopping 5,000 gun shows around the nation from becoming "illegal arms bazaars" for criminals and gunrunners.

The government estimates that 5 million people a year attend gun shows. The Brady law requirement for five-day waiting periods and background checks does not apply to gun show purchases.

In his weekly radio address, Clinton said he ordered the Treasury and Justice departments to recommend executive actions within 60 days that will close that loophole.

Florida voters overwhelmingly approved a ballot initiative last week to let counties require background checks or impose five-day waiting periods for the purchase of firearms at gun shows. The federal government should now follow suit and require a so-called "Insta-Check" of the buyer's criminal history, Clinton said. "I believe this should be the law of the land: no background check, no gun, no exceptions."

Sarah Brady of Handgun Control Inc. issued a statement applauding Clinton's action but also pushing for waiting periods to apply to gun show sales. Brady is the wife of former White House press secretary James Brady, wounded in the 1981 assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan.

Clinton said gun shows are popular in his home state of Arkansas. "They're often the first place parents teach their children how to handle firearms safely," he said.

"But at too many gun shows, a different, dangerous trend is emerging," the president said. "Some of these gun shows have become illegal arms bazaars for criminals and gun traffickers to buy and sell guns on a cash-and-carry, no-questions-asked basis."

On Nov. 30, the Justice Department is to implement the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which will give law enforcement officials access to a wider array of records than is now available.

Also as of Nov. 30, the background checks will apply to purchases not only of handguns but also of rifles and shotguns, and to firearm transfers at pawn shops. With that system in place, the number of background checks for gun purchases will increase from an estimated 4 million a year to 12 million, Clinton said.

) Copyright 1998 The Associated Press


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Clinton directed his government Saturday to find a way to close a legal loophole that allows speakers/journalists to express their ideas at public places with no questions asked.

In his weekly radio address, Clinton said a ``dangerous trend'' is emerging at seminars and radio talk shows because the First Amendment permits people to express their ideas without background checks.

``Some of these talk shows have become a haven for criminals and hate-speech mongers looking to sway people on a no-questions-asked basis,'' Clinton said.

He directed Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and Attorney General Janet Reno to report back to him in 60 days with a plan to close the loophole in the Bill of Rights and to prohibit any free speech without a background check.

``I believe this should be the law of the land: No background check, no free speech, no exceptions,'' Clinton said.

In a fact sheet, the White House said that every week about 35 million people regularly listen to an estimated 50 conservative radio personalities such as Rush Limbaugh and G. Gordon Liddy.

On Nov. 30, 1999 the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System is set to take effect to allow quicker checks and approve speech license sales within minutes.

In addition, on Nov. 30, 1999 the law will be strengthened in two ways: purchases of all speech licenses, not just political, will be subject to Reno background checks as will Kinko's printing services, which are four times as likely to involve prohibited printed opinions.

Overall, the White House said, it is estimated that the number of background checks conducted nationally will increase from 0 million to between 10 and 12 million. Unregulated speech is ``an open invitation to criminals and right wing crazies,'' said Janet Reno, who chairs SpeechControl Inc. The Clinton law was named after the President, who was wounded in verbal attacks first launched by radio personality Rush Limbaugh in 1992.

California and Maryland regulate ``hate speech'', said Reno. Florida voters passed a constitutional amendment Tuesday giving counties the power to require a waiting period and a background check for speeches at political rallies and other public places.

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-- Robert Mangus (, November 08, 1998


Ruger 10-22 - real standard, cheap, lightweight, will kill larger animals.


-- Mitchell Barnes (, November 08, 1998.

If you plan on the purchase or possession of just one gun a Ruger 10/22 22 caliber rifle is a good gun. I have one which is custom. It has a bull barrel and custom check rest stock. It is equiped with a 4X scope but a 4X to 20X would be better. I can put 10 shots in a quarter at 25 yards. Our 11 year old son can put round after round in a 5-6 inch circle at 100 yards in a rapid fire mode. The ammo is cheap. Do however get the higher speed ammo as the slower speed ammo is more prone to jam in a semi auto gun.

Do not purchase a gun and then just put it in a closet until needed, hopefully never. Pratice pratice at different ranges. Learn how to take care of a jam quickly. Buy extra clips. Same for ammo. Find a local gun club with a range and pratice. If you live in a city and have the means get out of Dodge.

Respectfully, Ed

-- Ed Stevens (, November 08, 1998.

Hmmmm. That's sort of like asking, "What's the best screwdriver?" Do you want to drive Phillips or slot, or is it a Torx? How big is the screw?

A rimfire is good for small game hunting and pest control (small fourlegged pests like rabbits in the garden that is). It isn't an all purpose rifle. It can be made to do a lot of things in a pinch, but it will only do a couple of things _well_. Putting down medium sized critters reliably (your 200 lb. definition) isn't one of the things it will do well. Before everybody starts hollering, let me say that 1. yes, a .22 will kill lots of things totally dead 2. no, I would not want to be shot with one. And yes, the Ruger 10-22 is an outstanding little rifle- I have a couple of them myself.

I spent six years of misguided youth as an EMT. I have treated a number of people shot with all sorts of various stuff. A .22 is not a reliable stopper, period. Don't count on it for self protection. Its power is too limited. Its range is too limited. Yes, it is better than nothing. But it is _not_ better than a lot of other things that are available for self defense. You should consider that carefully.

Now, I don't have fantasies about holding off a kamikaze charge of the Fourth Mongolian Horde single handedly. I don't have an M2 .50 cal dug in in the front yard either. But I would be derelict not to tell you that serious social work requires a serious rifle. Lots of people like various 5.56mm carbines (Mini 14, AR15 etc)- they're OK. Lots of other people like various 7.62X39mm's (SKS, AK47)- they're OK too. So are the various 7.62X51mm's (M1A, FN FAL, HK91 etc). An M1 Garand is good. So are any of the GI bolt guns (M1903 Springfield, M1917 Enfield). Even a good commercial centerfire sporting rifle (preferably in .308Win) is a better idea than depending on a rimfire.

If your budget will handle an extra $175 plus ammo you can get an SKS and be a credible threat out to 300 to 400 yards. Anyone who can shoot a rimfire can handle a 7.62X39. It wouldn't be my first choice but I still have a couple (for the in-laws who show up empty-handed).

A while back a friend of mine was worrying about pretty much the same thing. He mentioned that he had his granpa's 1903 Springfield in the closet. He dug it out and I helped him fieldstrip it and clean it well- it was in very good condition and is quite capable of handling current ammunition. We scrounged up a few stripper clips for it and he bought a few hundred rounds of .30-06. He's comfortable shooting it, is good with it and feels quite happy now, and with good reason. I should mention he shot smallbore competition in high school (that was about 20 years ago) and the discipline is still there though the skills needed a little polish.

I think that if you think you need a rifle, you need a good centerfire. Chances are you won't really need it. But I could be wrong, and your place could be the nearest thing to Hogan's Alley for miles around. You pays your money and you takes your chances. I think you're wise to get whatever you're planning to do done by 1 Dec. And good creative writing on the spoof above also.


-- nemo (, November 08, 1998.

Mr Mangus, Based on your criteria I feel tht Ruger 1022 is your best bet. Wal-mart has them on sale all the time. Go and get a variety of ammunition and see what your gun likes best. As a caveat, I don't think the .22lr is at all adequate for 2 legged predator control. Since you live in MI(By your servers address) I would suggest you also get an SKS which uses the 7.62X39 round and is very common and inexpensive. The 1022 should be available for around 165.00 and the SKS should be available for less than 300.00. Ammunition for the 1022 should be available locally at good prices. The ammunition for the SKS can be had for about 11 cents via mail order out of The Shotgun News which you can pickup at the news stand. Follow the venders instructions out of SGN and they will ship to you. At this time you can get russian hollowpoint ammunition for the SKS in thousand round cases for 99.00/case if you look(Shipping not included). It is equavalent in performance to the old 30-30 deer round which has taken game animals for the last 100 years.

Don Williams

-- Don Williams (, November 08, 1998.

I agree with the comments on the Ruger and the SKS (I own both). I would add to your consideration a 20g shotgun. You can use slugs which will knock down deer easily. I recommend Remington Copper Sabot. Your wife should be able to handle a 20G without a problem. Obviously, you can use other loads as well and so could hunt everything from rabbits to deer. Furthermore, a pump shotgun is probably the best self defense weapon available when loaded with 00.

-- R. D..Herring (, November 08, 1998.

Thought of something else. There is an outfit out of Kentucky called Centerfire Systems, INC (800-950-1231) that sells copies of some British WWII rifles. One of them is the Enfield #7 Jungle carbine which is a conversion the 2A No. 1 Mk.III Enfield. Chambered in .308 Winchester, 20.5 inch barrel, 12-shot mag and weighs 8 pounds. Cost is $135. Can get a scope mount for $40. Lot of gun for the money.

-- R. D..Herring (, November 08, 1998.

My wife, a high school letter winer with a Mosberg .22 in target work, has lost the use of her normal support shouldeer. Can't get the weapon uip or support it. She was b emoaning the fact that she now has to go to a "ladies gun". We were at a local gun show and we ran into a short(er than some) barrel 9mmP rifle which is a MP5 lookalike, by Hi-Point Firearms out of Mansfield, OH (Beemiller Inc).

Haven't fired them yet but we have 2, with some accessories, and spent under $425 out the show. Basically, we chose them because of the lightness, she can shoulder it, and I can get a reasonable sight pic.

Will let you know as we are going to a range this week which can handle this size piece, inside.


ps stripped, the price was $134 but apparently lists about $165.

-- chuck, night driver (, November 08, 1998.

I like my .22 and my SKS, but if I only had one gun to choose, a 12 or 20 ga. shotgun. With slugs and various shot and loads you can use it in so many situations. From small game to deer and most home defense situations. I vote for high capacity shotgun.

-- Bill (, November 09, 1998.

Will someone come over to England and shoot all the deer, foxes and rabbits, or at least reduce them to reasonable numbers. They are destroying the countryside, eg the deer have eaten all the endangered plant species, rabbits have no natural predators (and they are breeding like only rabbits know how) and foxes are a menace to poultry, also carry rabies. Trouble is the people they're cuddly. Bambi and Thumper have a lot to answer for. PS at least we don't have cane toads (that aussies use to extract halucenogenics from).

-- Richard Dale (, November 09, 1998.


OTOH, you won't find Thumper in Oz. . .

-- Hardliner (, November 09, 1998.

Richard, I thought hunting is all the Royals do. Don't tell me, they gave up their guns, too? Back to the safe room, lock it up tight.

-- Bill (, November 10, 1998.

You can have a gun licence in the UK and own them, not sure of the exact procedure regarding security of weapons but you are registered with the police. Many people use guns for sporting purposes.

-- Richard Dale (, November 10, 1998.

The security man accompanying the Royals will have a gun, he's easy to spot, gray flannels, blue blazer, worried expression when people get anywhere near them. Thye'll have lackeys to carry/look after their weapons when hunting.

-- Richard Dale (, November 10, 1998.

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