PLEASE BE GOOD SPORTS AFTER THE ELECTIONgreenspun.com : LUSENET : 1998 Guam Elections : One Thread
NOTE TO ALL:
As I write this, supporters of both sides are cheering on their candidates at the camps now that the polls have closed, and the early gubernatorial results are in with the race very close right now.
I'm writing to ask everyone on this forum to be civil and kind to others once the results are all in. If your side wins, don't rub it in the face of others -- imagine how they feel and put yourself in their shoes. If your side loses, don't get mad at the other side -- congratulate them and move on. Either way, handle it with grace.
As for me, I plan to continue this forum, and I encourage you to keep coming back and to encourage others to participate. I think it's vital that people on Guam continue to discuss the key issues. I will continue to push for clean, intelligent government, whoever wins. If Karl wins -- and he's ahead right now -- I will not go away, as some of his supporters are hoping. I refuse to be hateful, but I insist on being civil and honest.
Thank you all for participating and please come back often.
-- Lighthouse Keeper (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 03, 1998
In the true spirit of this page, and in light of the tone of the discussion these past few weeks during its existence, I submit the following....
We're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one, we're still the one....
-- Spotlight (email@example.com), November 03, 1998.
Steal the funds
Impeach Karl '98.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 03, 1998.
It is time for Carl to get back to the real task in hand and start helping the people of Guam. The people have spoken and want Carl to continue the good work for the next four years. I pray that Carl will set Guam towards success and economic prosperity for all the people. The triple alliance of contempt and hate waged by Angel Santos, Tom Ada and Joe Ada against '98' shows a lack of vision and understanding of the polticial process. A campaign of love and peace will always win in the end. I will always love Ricky's Guam.
-- (email@example.com), November 03, 1998.
Joe Ada - if there's a run off election I would encourage you to go for it. The margin was small and there's a good chance for you to win. Don't give up just yet!
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 03, 1998.
Hey Love Too bad you dont know that Ricky's Guam never included Carl. Ricky hated Carl. Dick Taitano knows that and so does Barbie Doll. Pigo cemetary is turning graves and Guam is doomed for 4 more years. Joe Ada is a humble guy! Can you imagine after Carl had his victory rather than be nice he had to thank Mark? Talk about an a**
If I was the winner, I'd thank the people of Guam and not stoop to such a low life comment. Then again, We elected a KID! A SPOLIED BRAT!
-- Juan (email@example.com), November 03, 1998.
Juan, so what. We're still having fun.....
-- Jane (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 03, 1998.
We're not having fun yet and Karl hasn't officially won. I hope Mark does get in and shows karl a nice middle finger!
-- (email@example.com), November 03, 1998.
Yes the fun begins now and 98 will be the Ones to get into the political pork barrel. You hita, maulegs and time can just watch as we steal it all and you may line up at the food stamp line with Angel and Mark. We will be just be having fun because we are still the Ones.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 03, 1998.
Civil? Throwing harsh, insulting and totally uncalled-for comments to the supporters of the opposing team is definitely not implying that this administration is going to work to make this island a safer and better place for me or anyone else. 98ers who are responsible for such actions on election day at the different precincts know who they are...we definitely do. Oh! and Robert Underwood's remark about the 'beautiful people' present at the Gutierrez/Bordallo rally on election evening...I think not! How 'beautiful' can they be with such nasty mouths? By the way, catch the worried look in Carl's eyes and Maddy's shaky stance and quivering voice. And Carl, what was wrong with Ada/Camacho's concession speech? Was there something wrong with the message that you should now take care of ALL the people of Guam, including those who may have not supported you? That's your job as governor! Or were you preoccupied with plans to really abuse your power since this will be your last four years?
-- c/o 45.45% (GOOD_CLEAN_GOVT@hotmail.com), November 04, 1998.
rub your face in poo poo!
anyways, congratulations to mark charfauros for giving it his best and the best of his supporters. unfortunately, mark was up against a visious media campign against him orchestrated by george "im slowly dying of aids" bamba and paul "master editorialist" calvo. hard to overcome media bias. power of the media is strong. congrats to ada/camacho for overcoming strong media bias to get as far as they did. of course carlw ill fight a runoff with his lawyers because he's scared of his chances. ada/camacho closed a thirty point gap in a little less than a month. carl knows with fbi investigations and oversight hearings someone will eventually have to show up to, his charming media image may not last too much longer. sonny shelton was at the 98 rally and he sdai the following:
"the streets will be flowing with the blood of ada/camacho from the wounds of their loss!"
mr shelton needs to take a big humility pill and remember who is paying for his big salary and his tinted green cherokkee with private plates. that's what i dont like the arrogance of this adminstration. people saying "i know the governor" or "he in charge of the whole damn island" or things like directors not showing up for oversight hearings. or how about driveway paving? why dont you hotshot reporters ask how much the dirveways have cost? where are they getting the money to pave driveways? the driveway funds are not appropriated, so carl has to shift money from agencies (like DOE) to win votes by going on a pving spree. anther one is the way this admin has bought so many luxury vehicles. and they put private plates on them! why? how many white expeditions and black exploerers? how about givng away $2.5 in free power poles? people and mike reiedy need to wake up becuse gutierrez/bordallo is flushing our tax dollars down the toilet!
and pleez don't even say i'm full of "hate and contempt for the 98". try and dispute or denigrate my arguments.
-- RSNB (email@example.com), November 04, 1998.
The PDN published the results of Merill's poll in an effort to discourage Gutierrez-Bordallo supporters from voting by thinking it would be a landslide victory. If the election were held again, which I believe will not happen, I think the Gutierrez-Bordallo margin of victory would be much larger.
The intelligent voters of Guam realize that the only reason the FBI is investigating the governor is because Angel Santos and Mark Charfauros made allegations of corruption and the FBI has an obligation to investigate whether or not those allegations are true. Nobody's been indicted and no one will be.
I agree that Sonny's comments were too harsh. We all know what it feels like to lose and the "Lighthouse Keeper" is right, we need to be respectful of eachother.
-- I love you all (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 04, 1998.
Let there be a runoff election. And let it be known that the real choice of the people was Ada/Camacho. The 98 camp spoke some harsh cruel words during their victory speech. It was clear to see the vindictive attitude that they had toward the other party. But, they spoke too soon. The people have seen it. The people have heard it. Now let the runoff begin. Ada/Camacho will be the ones to help the people of Guam. I voted for 98. But after those speeches were made. I felt like crawling under a rock. I have never in my life seen such arrogance. You should of been humble! Thank the other party. Not rub things in their face. I know now that this is a self serving administration and it is time for change.
-- Voter (Runoff@election.guam), November 04, 1998.
Well it seems that the only people that will be running will be the lighthead and the hate mongers. It is a done deal.
-- (email@example.com), November 04, 1998.
I never heard any kind words coming from Joe Ada's mouth during his speech. He didn't even bother calling Carl and Madeleine. What happened to all that integrity? Why would Carl thank Ada? Ada used whomever he could to destroy the reputations of the governor, lt governor and their families. I don't blame him for being bitter at Mark, Angel and Joe. Ada/Camacho were the ones allowing Mark Barfauros to rant and rave at all their village meetings about the governor's family and alleged corruption. Didn't you see the ad with Joe and Felix smiling in the background as Mark Barfauros asked the governor to fight? Mark has paid the price for his evil, lets just hope he is able to let go of the hate. When is the last time you saw Mark smile? There is more to life than Gutierrez bashing.
-- On the High Road (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 04, 1998.
Don't you wish the FBi was investigating because of Angel and Mark! The FBI investigations stared way before the primary election! Your 98 spin is pathetic!
You have not argued intelligently in this forum 98 supporters!
Even if we throw Carl's corruption out the window, he has FAILED as governor in the last four years!
He sued the board of education, used education money to pave driveways, triggered the start of DOD schools because he wanted even more power. Unemployment is the highest of all time, yet the number of H2 workers on Guam is higher than ever. Crime is up, Ice is up and thousands of criminal cases are being dismissed while the AG sells fundraiser tickets.
Not to mention FBI investigations.
98ers how could you support Carl? He hasn't done aything in the last four years. He did not end load shedding or build 8 schools, so what has he done?
-- (outKast@maximillan.com), November 04, 1998.
X-cellent you deserve break today I agree with everthing you say. Go ahead post some more breaking news we need more bull.
-- (email@example.com), November 05, 1998.
The latest issue, does a blank ballot count as a vote cast or not. 98 feels that a blank ballot does not count, because it will take away his immediate win. It also seems that he's worried about going through a run-off election. He's lack of confidence is showing through his camasola. Don't think you could win again. Be like Mike (Tyson) in his haydays, and invite a rematch. Nah, Chicken. I say these things because he and his spin-doctors sure came up with some really lame reasons of why a run-off is not required. I really have accepted the fact that we be stuck with the crook for another four, but this is what I have to say to Phil C., his lawyer. A whole bunch of us who honestly did not like either one of the Gubi-Candidates, and decided not to vote for either one, are now essentially being told your vote does not count. Yes, yes, yes, we did vote!!! Our decision to not make a mark in either oval space,in essense tells both candidates that we don't want either one of you to run the govt. We voted NO!. And if anyone, Phil Carbullido, or Joey Duenas or any other 98 appointee in the Election Committee, pushes to disregard, throw out, discard our vote, our U.S. Constitutional right to Vote, you better be ready for a Legal Fight, because I will not stand for it. My right to vote, which includes my right to not choose the choices available, are my birthright under the Organic Act, which gives me my U.S. Citizenship. I am argueing for my rights, not for another chance for Ada. Doubt he'll win. But this is another example of 98's complete disregard for what's right and his complete arrogance to the people he is suppose to be representing while in the Office of Gov. 98, Phil, Election Commission, Cha ge ha (Just try to ***k us)
-- justjoe (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 05, 1998.
As we await for the Guam Election Commisison's legal decision on the election, can't help to ponder, pray with delight for the possibility of another defeat of smoking Joe Ada. It would be a pleasure to watch a second smoking Joe Ada cry baby loser speech very soon. Come on Joe Ada hit us with your best shot... fire away see if the voters care.
-- (email@example.com), November 05, 1998.
I think the voters do care. The election showed the race is a LOT closer than Karl and you 98ers thought. I seem to recall many of you predicting a landslide. But Joe closed in on Karl fast, and in another couple of weeks I think he would pass Karl. Contrary to what someone else on this thread said, I think the PDN article about Karl's lead in the poll actually scared Joe's voters away. Why should they vote when Karl had it locked up? And I think the election night speech by Karl and the comments by Sonny "blood in the streets" Shelton will turn even more voters over to Joe.
Karl can't keep the truth from coming out forever, and neither can the Kalvos. I don't know if there will be a runoff election, but Karl seems a little scared at how close the election was and I know he sure doesn't want another one. Let's see how hard he fights against a runoff happening.
-- Lighthouse (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 05, 1998.
98ers - enjoy your fun while it lasts because when your utility rates and taxes are increased and your children are hooked on ice and cannot hold a job and you or your family become victims of criminals (God forbid)who were not tried and prosecuted, "you're still the one" who will suffer.
-- Che'lu (Che'lu@Yahoo.com), November 05, 1998.
Its obvious King Karl is afraid of democracy. First, his campaign strategy was to paint himself as a hero who rose from humble beginnings and "never forgot where he came from" and is now "helping the people of Guam". He released as little information about quality of life changes for the average person over the course of his term. Second, he portrayed people who talked about the real issues as hate- mongerers who are impugning the reputation of everyone on the island and threw out frivolous lawsuits at many of them. Now we see him desperately fighting to prevent giving the people a chance to make a clear decision. If, as Paul Carbullido says, the "people have spoken" and they gave King Karl an "overwhelming [49%] majority", what's he afraid of?
-- RTT (Ratt@tat.tat), November 05, 1998.
Once defeat is completly accepted, it ceases in a sense to be a defeat.
-- (email@example.com), November 05, 1998.
Guess the decision to not have a run off is certain so let us all sing the song : ready?...... YOU'RE STILL THE ONE WHO STEALS THE FUNDS....
Guess I better remove my Ada/Camacho sticker and put a 98 one on my car so I can get the perks that come along with it: ie driveway paving
You 98ers are so blind to corruption, It's there (like it is all over the world) but you don't want to see it. But like your 98 governor said, "Your past always comes back to haunt you" So I am going to assume that his past will soon catch up to him (hint f b i)
I just have to ponder on the question : What would it have been like to see 98er's lose?.....
-- OH WELL (full firstname.lastname@example.org), November 06, 1998.
I was looking forward for a rematch between Joe the Crybaby and Carl the Mauleg Crusher. But the legal expert ruled that it is not legally possible to stage a rematch. Now we have more problems the election workers can't count and Joe is broke and begging for money. Lets mail in donations to Joe Ada he really needs the money.
-- (email@example.com), November 06, 1998.
Shades of Ferdinand Marcos. Doesn't what we heard today about the ballots not matching up with the signatures remind us of the elections we read about in those dictator-ran countries, the old Philipines, Cuba, some South American countries, now Guam. Stuffing ballot boxes or disposing off opponent's ballots?! It better not be happening. This is almost as bad as protecting ice-using relatives from prosecution. If it smells like rat, and you see rat dropping (Joey Dueanas for one), then its gotta be a rat. Too many coincidences. Too many!
-- justjoe (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 06, 1998.
This fishy business with the power outage on election night and now missing ballots and extra ballots ...
The people of Guam should demand the election be done over. I can't believe the Election Commission is going to conduct its own audit?!?
How can we trust the results now?
Speak up and demand the sacredness of our votes be kept sacred!
This election has become a travesty!
-- (email@example.com), November 06, 1998.
No "legal expert" has ruled that a runoff is not legally possible in this situation. If you mean Phil Carbullido, who Karl pays to say what he wants, then you should know that Phil's opinions have no legal weight in this case. Neither do any other lawyer's opinions. Neither do court cases in any other jurisdictions, unless it's the U.S. Supreme Court. No such ruling has been made, and I'm guessing people will demand that this issue be taken to the courts. I don't want Joey Duenas, Fred Horecky or Phil Carbullido making a legal decision this important.
-- Lighthouse (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 06, 1998.
People of Guam, we are not still the one!!! Why is it that only this election we have discrepencies in ballots, 30 of 70 precincts. I do smell a rat. This is a typical Ferdinand Marcos election. It's so sad. If, and I do say if, there was any ballot tampering whomever did this must be very deperate!! I am so disgusted and feel so let down by all this and ask yourselves who can we TRUST!! Can we even trust the election commission. I certainly wouldn't trust Joe Duenas only because he is a 98er appointed board memeber. Why is it that we can't trust anyone. Alot of the Directors for certain agencies can't even do their jobs and some of them are drug users. And don't come back and tell me that I have hate and contempt because I'm not trying to push hate in this forum I'm just trying to get this frustration out. That's what I have for this administration, FRUSTRATION! Can we trust any of these Gov't officials? SENATORS, please protect us from all the wrong that is going on. I know there are many people like myself who feel the same. Who can we trust? Can we trust the media? Can we trust these Directors to run the Government of Guam efficiently and effectively? Can we trust the Election Commission? Does the governor rule the Laws of the land? And is he above the law? Are any of you above the LAW?
-- decieved (email@example.com), November 06, 1998.
Here we go again the mauleg malfuncions posting obvious conclusions illogically drawn, attacking respected people that they disagree with and offering no opportunity for an intelligent discussion. I guess we need to turn to Joe Ada for legal guidance. Joe says that we should have a rerun beacause the Organic Acts says so. We agree so let the sideshow begin with a battle between Carl the Magleg Crusher and Joe the Still Crying Baby Loser.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 06, 1998.
Can we trust Joe Mesa the Chairperson of the Guam Election Commission Board to perform his job? Mr. Mesa is a Joe Ada supporter and the most powerful official at the Guam Election Commission. Joe Mesa give your buddy Joe Ada a rerun it's the mauleg thing to do for the cry baby loser.
-- (trust@.kuentos.com), November 06, 1998.
Attorney Joe Ada
Please find the section in the Organic Act that says majority is '(50%) plus one'. I will give you 6 months to find it and when you do find it please post section in the election forum and I will vote for you. Come on Joe you got up to 6 months to define one word, surely you can do it.
-- (email@example.com), November 06, 1998.
Joe Mesa and Torres of the election commisssion I feel can be trusted! They have been at the election commission forever!!!!
-- trustworthy (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 06, 1998.
Hello? Senseless!! I am offering you room for intelligent discussion. I just asked if the Governor was above the Law? If we can trust anyone of the Directors hired to run these Government of Guam Agencies. I dare the Senators to come up with a law that requires all Dept. Heads to take RANDOM drug tests. Did you say respected people. Come on. You must be one of the many that are corrupt as well. For your info I am not a mauleg supporter I wan one of those 1,000 plus who left my ballot blank. So put up or shutup.
-- deceived (email@example.com), November 06, 1998.
Legal is right. It is important to come up with the actual manifest on the law of 50 plus one vote. Could we subpoena Joe Duenas for saying it on that night, that the Organic Act provides that the winning party must have 50 plus one vote and Carl, (that night) had more than that number. We don't have to go that far, I've recorded it just like other Republicans and Democrats.
Now I think the issue here is this: Are we going to accept the actual tally, or catalyst that was provided to us to determine our Governor? Quite frankly it would be absolute ignorance to accept this count. Incredibly, ridiculous. However, if they come out and say there was no descrepancy, I think the time limit on the run-off has been greatly affected. This has pushed us back no less than 5 days in deliberating a run-off.
Another issue is this: If they say there was no discrepancy; Are we going to accept that, regardless what they say- there must be an another election. The whole election has been compromised, there is no arguement to that.
Now one thing has gotten to me this Friday. The ADA/CAMACHO team informally announced to its supporters a fundraiser this Sunday. What a coincidence that an A/E tells me that she gets a call that night, to run in productions a new 98 ad. Guess? A thank you party on the same day? Same time? So out of angst I ask my neigbor, a 98 campaigner, "Why would you do that?" She innocently gestures; "It will help prevent them in their fundraiser" I add "And bring the attendance down" she replies "Its not uncommon."
Of course you can take this with a grain of a salt. The issue however does exert itself, there is still a profound defense against an unpronounced threat. I'll admit that I was at that meeting Friday at the ADA/CAMACHO camp, and I'll tell you this I don't know if its bravery or just arrogance that would bring the 98 supporters to bring their vehicles and park it in the front areas, places closest to the meeting. I'm worried about the events this Sunday, of course if violence was to be truly avoided then maybe next time we shouldn't plan to have two big parties on the same day, at the same time, in the same area. That tells me what the real concerns of the 98 camp is. One more thing, if any of you dare to tell me that the 98 camp planned this way before the ADA/CAMACHO camp did, you can kiss my a**. Not only was I told first hand by the 98 team, that preperations for the 98 thank-you party came after the ADA/CAMACHO announcement but I was there when the call for the ad came. In addition the media people have their little cliques and what a coincidence the other stations get the same request after the informal announcement for the ADA/CAMACHO team to raise money. Now is safety an issue for the people? Is it to the 98 camp? They're the ones that chose the same day, and time. Unrefutedly.
Earlier, I read your comment about a triple alliance against Guiterez. Calling the alliance a compostion of hate and sourness. I'd like to challenge you on that. Shall we begin with this in 1941 the Grand Alliance, or Triple Alliance, was formed to take on the world's greatest threat. I'll give you a hint as to who it was, in 1933 he created the Enabling Act allowing him to deviate from the constitution that oversaw the country, and manuever him from answering any allegations in regard to his actions, executed or in its execution. After 1941 the 4 years that followed was called the Holocaust.
-- third party (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 06, 1998.
Don't you know that Joe Ada the cry baby loser needed your vote? Can you explain to the forum people why you left your ballot blank for the governorship? Who do you think you deceived when you did not cast your vote for Joe Ada? Please explain in full details your reason(s) for not voting for Joe Ada? Joe Ada was counting on your support and see what happened he lost and is crying like a baby. Why did you deceived Joe Ada? Shame on you.
-- (email@example.com), November 06, 1998.
Lighter, it is none of your business why I did not cast my vote for the gubenatorial race the fact remains I was decieved and so were thousands of people because of THE OUTCOME OF THIS ELECTION!! Have we any official results, NO, so there is the deception!! Just because I did not cast my vote for governor does not give you the right to say I have no right to complain. I am a citizen of this territory and I have the right to vote any which way I please. I told you to put up or shutup.
-- decieved (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 06, 1998.
This election is a travesty! It should be done all over again. Missing ballots, power outages. The election has been compromised!
-- (email@example.com), November 06, 1998.
Thank you your posting it was informative and filled with fresh political insights. In my humble opinion the triple alliance had a chance of beating Carl... had they campaigned on the problems and issues of governing the people. The voters as evidenced by the legislative voting results desired for Republican new bloods and effective law makers. How sad these Republican votes did not follow Joe Ada. Perhaps, Joe Ada's failure is that the center campaign did not make sense regarding the eight years of power and economic planning problems, leadership incompetence and so on. Second, he permitted Mark C. Charfauros, Angel L.G. Santos and Felix P. Camacho to make deceitful personnel attacks and fabricated facts designed to cast suspcion on the key supporters of 98. Third and in closing had Joe Ada been more faithful and loyal to the Republican Party he could have won the people's mandate for a third term. How bitter for Joe to finally lose and how sweet for Carl to win. A campaign based on love will almost always win in the end.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1998.
I think that the election commision has been taking way too long to come to a decision on the election. My concern is that if the federalies get involved all hell will break loose. But that's what it may have to come down to. I would like to know where the who said that there were discrepancies with the ballots. Was it the GEC itself or was it a media leak?
-- (email@example.com), November 07, 1998.
Yes I agree the Guam Election Commission should have been able to come to terms with this problem a long time ago. Perhaps we can ask our friend Angel Santos to call up Janet Reno to check this matter out.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1998.
I implore all of you to think pensively about the election. Every part of it has been compromised, regardless what is decided remember that if we accept the GEC's final result and they stick by their findings; We have not elected any official with the sanctity of democracy uninterrupted, in fact we have accepted our executive and legislative staff on a basis of interpretation and selective deduction.
Bottomline this election has completely forfieted its vailidness.
-- Third Party (email@example.com), November 07, 1998.
It would be premature to come to conclusions until the Guam Election Commission completes the election work and we get a chance to review the matter this coming Monday the 8th day of November 1998. So suspend your judgments and stop casting suspicions the facts are incomplete.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1998.
Let me make it simple. The election has been compromised, without a doubt we know that much. To what extent we don't, these are not assumption but as we talk certain individuals are checking the results of the election (the time allowed after the election, another issue). In the process of them checking, the sanctity has been lost. Obviuosly the factors that create an election have been broken, and to question these factors; well this act on this own is sufficient enough to constitue a compromise. Now, even you time, though I've never met you I trust, that any individual can come to terms with this. That no matter what happens, if we accept the GEC's position in accepting the current poles, we will accept everything that has been applied to it. And quite frankly there are few things to consider, and several of them are questionable; now for me to argue each point will be me getting into a pissing match with you. Now when I say I'm a third party, I mean it literally. I attend both sides and have reason to be nuetral. Just until recently when the act of performing the appreciation party disgusted me, because the safety of the people was disregarded for political manuevers. Though a riot, or fight might not occur on the day examined stiil the disregard for the safety of the people has been ignored. Now where is the provacation in that, it details from the 98 camp itself.
So time, simply the questioning of the election by the GEC themselves four days after the election is a form of compromise, in addition I suggest you find out how the whole election process is done. Perhaps in your elightment in the methods utilized in the structure of the election process from precinct to certification, the venues of understanding that the election has been compromised might bring you to more concrete terms.
-- Third Party (Thirdparty@gov.guam.org), November 07, 1998.
Everyone who is coming out in this forum to say the election went okay and just give it to 98, will be the same people who be complaining jsut as loudly , if it was the other way around. If Joe Ada had 49% to a 98's 46%, and upon hearing that the ballot count did not match the signature count, would be storming down the Elec-Comm's Office (use the words storming down cuz its really evident there is a fction of the 98 camp who are truly violent and hateful in nature).
What about the fedaralies getting involved?! Might be more believeable to have them check on these discrepancies, than the old adage "The fox guarding the hen house" or "the dog guarding the steak". I dont know about the Elec-Comm checking on themselves. I think GovGuam is in for a giant lawsuit, and we, the concerned, have already contacted civil-rights lawyers about the possibility of representation.
-- (email@example.com), November 07, 1998.
If you think the election process has been compromised then I suggest you contact Voting Intergrity Project (VIP) at 888-578-4343 and guard the integrity of our elections. VIP conducts independent investigations of alleged election frauds and is dedicated to eradicating election fraud. At this time it is not possible to measure the election voting damage. The first step is for the Guam Election Commission to audit and explain the issues. If there is evidence then a complete investigation may be warranted. Time will tell us if it is negative pregnant.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1998.
Joe Ada the cry baby
You better not cry anymore because Santa is donating money for the election rerun. Joe buddy... Why not have a rerun with Angel L.G. Santos? Hita vs. Mauleg would be an excellent rerun for the governorship. I tell you the truth and donate to your fund raiser.
You see those stars in the sky, one of them is you Felix. I don't know which one but one of them is you Felix.
-- (email@example.com), November 08, 1998.
Give it up ABC people, there will not be another election. Stop the trash. And you Lighthouse, stop deleting other's opinion, stop making this forum look like a ABC meeting. There is enough insults in here that makes Ada look good.
98 supporters, stop talking in this place, we already know who won.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 08, 1998.
Dear King Karl
Please stop giving contracts to your friends and family.
Please put government plates on ALL the government vehicles, take off the private plates. I understand if you leave private plates on an undercover cop car.
Please burn the incinerator contract so the people don't have to pay $9 million to your old employers GMP.
Please do something about unemployment. I know you've hired just about everyone you can, but release the Labor stats.
Please get your agency directors to show up to public hearings and oversight hearings.
Please stop hiding information from the taxpayers.
Please disband the Komitea Para Tiyan. They aren't doing anything, and two of your brothers are on the "committee" making a combined $95,000 a year.
Please have another election. This one is just too fishy. As fans of the democratic process, I'm sure Gutierrez/Bordallo will call for another election, one without timely power outages and missing ballots.
Please remind people like Sonny Shelton and Ginger Cruz and Gil Shinohara that they ar public servants. We pay their salaries. This administration is arrogant and many of its higher-ups need to take a big swallow of humility.
-- Dakta Ziegfried (OU812@ziegfried.edu), November 08, 1998.
Get use to it Carl will rule for four more years. If you think there is a problem with that then find the facts and turn it over to the FBI. Why do you continue to recycle the same trash that started before the primaries?
-- (email@example.com), November 08, 1998.
"Why do you continue to recycle the same trash that started b4 the primary ... "
A brilliant quote by the person who posted above.
Sorry, "Four@hotmail.com" ...
I'm bringing it up becuz it is still a legit issue. I bring it up because we will probably get 4 more years (or until the Feds krack Karl's ass) of the same korrupt ways. Just becuz the election is over doesn't mean the korrupt ways of Karl and his Kronies will stop. Doesn't mean we have to stop being vocal about it.
Thats just what you 98ers want ... people to stop exposing the administration's krooked ways.
Sorry, You can't shut me up!
-- The Dakta Is In (OU812@ziegfried.edu), November 08, 1998.
Now we have 571 unregistered voters, for a fact no less than a hundred duplicated social security numbers. We have an individual who has voted for no less than 180 people, (which will be discussed this Thursday), and Atty. Horecki who knows better that anyone in the election committie that you don't need a consesus to subpoena anyone, but doesn't want to (As stated in the laws, Guam annotated). You have a deadlock of two parties, a committie of even numbers. And a debate on when the actual fourteen days kick off for the run-off. If I ever saw a bomb with a malfuctioning clock this has to be it.
-- Third Party (Thirdparty@gov.guam.org), November 09, 1998.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, OUR GREAT GOVT AT WORK. KIDS, PAY ATTENTION, THIS IS THE REAL WAY GOVT WORKS, WITH DOUBLE TALK, HALF TRUTHS, BEATING AROUND THE BUSH...ARRUUGH!!!
Its people like these lawyers, and their bosses (98) who can screw the truth and righteousness to hell and back. This is their plan, make the process so unbearable, so as the opponent will quit. There are those who have the fortitude to go on till righteousness overcomes.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 09, 1998.
real voter and third party
You and your buddy Joe Ada are still crying like babies from the 3,000+ rejection votes by people of Guam on election day the 3rd of November 1998. The reason that the election results have not been certified is due to Mesa & Moyland boys are playing childish games and the whole island knows it. Joe Ada better get use to it, you may not for the rest of your life win another election after all the stupid things you have done before and continue after the 1998 election. Who cares about the certification of elections life goes on for the people of Guam The mauleg group are a bunch of narcissists wrapped for the desire for power and glory. Keep on dreaming mauleg boys like Joe Mesa and Doug Moyland ... you look and think like a bunch of morons on TV.
-- (email@example.com), November 09, 1998.
No matter how you try Joe Ada, Tony Sanchez, Doug Moyland, Joe Mesa, and Lee Webber to destroy the creditability of the Guam Election Commission a rerun will not happen. Joe Ada can climb Mt. Lamlam and cry some more but it will be all in vain. The Guam community realizes that Joe Ada is a sorry loser and does not have a job or a real business that can keep him busy so he is trying so hard to get a job that he can't handle. Hurry up because November 14th is a done deal soon. Keep on crying you bunch of losers the mauleg childish brand. It is fun to watch your desperation in these boring times.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 09, 1998.
Joe Ada you gotta stop this madness before someone gets really hurt. Lets keep our island a safe and civil, call your dogs back into the doghouse. The President is not coming to Guam becauce of your inability to accept the fact that you lost to Carl. The community is getting restless as you can't come to grips with your situtation.
-- (email@example.com), November 09, 1998.
Oh yeah 98ers, let's just forget about all the fishy things that happened in this election. Forget about power outages that did affect the counting of ballots, let's forget about 571 non-US citizens voting, let's forget about ballots being put in an envelope, let's forget about 171 people conspiring to fraud the election by using the same SS number, let's forget that the Election Commission has broke the law by not counting the write-in ballots in a timely and LEGAL manner.
You 98ers obviously DO NOT CARE that someone may have tried to rig this election. You obviously don't care that the election process, the most sacred thing in a DEMOCRACY has been fu**ed with. You 98ers probably have no problem with the way the Election Commission AUDITED ITSELF and made most of the problems with discrepancies in 49 of 72 precincts go away. The senatorial race would be affected by the 571 non-US citizens and the 171 fraudulent SSN voters.
I listen to the radio, and it's sad to see the Ginger Cruz/Carla Gutierrez 98 Phone Bank hogging the lines. Makes them look guilty of something. Bob Kelley and Ron Teehan need to get to work. Stop "spin- doctoring" when the People pay your fat-ass salaries. "Just give up," they say. Okay. Let's just not pay attention to election fraud. Let's forget that Guam is turning into a little banana republic under Karl Gutierrez.
Let's see. The administration has made a habit of withholding information from the public, much like a dictatorship. Politically- connected people don't get prosecuted, like a dictatorship. Karl does whatever he wants, circumvents bid and procurement laws, bypasses the legislative appropriation process by giving away power poles and paving driveways for free. Our people don't know what's going on because Karl and Kompany are HIDING. Hope they wouldn't try and rig an election.
King Karl's world must be falling apart right now. Even though he gave his buddy Bill Clinton $600,000, old Bill won't even come out here and stand by Karl and tell him he's "Steal The One." Bill know something we don't? Best thing is that Karl had a big press conference at Adelup yesterday, and he didn't even KNOW the Prez wasn't coming. Burn! Look at these pathetic little spin-doctor 98ers trying to blame Joe Ada for the Prez not showing up. Maybe the FBI gave Clinton a heads-up.
-- The Guam News (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 09, 1998.
Joe Ada you are the reason that the President is not coming to Guam. Why don't you and Tony Sanchez, Doug Moyland, Joe Mesa, and Felix Camacho tell President you are sorry and would like him to visit Guam. Come on it is the least you could do for all the damages you have done to the people of Guam.
-- (Joe@hotmail.com), November 09, 1998.
It doesn't matter who was responsible for the compromise in the election process, whether it was Joe, Carl, Angel, or people from Mars. The point of the matter is that the electorial process has been compromised and it is making us look bad. The international media is going to make Guam look like a damn third world country. The damage is done. Let's stop playing the blame game and get on with business.
-- (email@example.com), November 09, 1998.
Thank you cry baby loser Joe Ada now the kids are going to suffer because the President will not be visiting Guam. The children were asking if they could see the President. Now, I have to explain to them that because of all the games that the adults are playing we will not have an opportunity to see the President. And who is responsible for this...I will tell them it is Joe Ada the cry baby.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 09, 1998.
who cares if the president is coming to Guam or not!! Blame it on klinton himself, he wasted some federal taxpayers money too, flying all those advance team people over to Guam, but we don't pay those taxes here. Uncle bill is a lecher, just like karl, a loser just like karl. karl kan't sleep peacefully knowing that this election fiasco is by his own doing, even if there was no runoff election, it wouldn't have been a kleen sweep victory for him! Now if he were to take a win stained by all the controversy, that is what I expect from karl krook krony klowns.
-- johnny bravo cruze (email@example.com), November 09, 1998.
Now you guys are blaming Joe Ada for the Prez not coming? Guess Karl and Billy aren't that tight. Maybe Karl should donate another $600K, so he can get a limo ride with the Head Fed.
Tell the kids this:
"Sorry but if we didn't have a banana republic leader like Karl Gutierrez, we wouldn't have all these problems surfacing and Bill Clinton would come here."
It is clear that the fishy ballots, totalling near 800 in number, DID affect the senatorial races. An invalidation of the results and a new election are the only steps Guam can take to restore the voice of the people.
I wish you 98ers would open your eyes. Stop insulting and think for a moment: We are talking about an ELECTION. If someone can rig and election, what's next?
Also, gettin tired of Ron Teehan and Bob Kelley on the radio saying "Please don't worry about all this fishy stuff, let's just name a winner so we can have our high-paying jobs back for the next four years."
-- Dakta Democracy (OU812@ziegfried.edu), November 09, 1998.
We've been together for far too long
I am so tired of hearing that stupid song
But we want you to know
After all these years
You're the one
Who made Carl a millionaire!
Because he stole the funds
Stole the funds
Are we still having fun?
-- Critical Thinker (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 10, 1998.
Really@kuentos, If I took your vote, stomped on it, and threw it in the trash can, then you'll know how I feel. Take personalities and feeling out of what's going on, and if you dont care if the election process has been truly compromise, then its your own fell. Suck it up when the truth comes out. At this point, I dont care who wins, but dont ***k with my rights!
-- (email@example.com), November 10, 1998.
FWIW, THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary ______________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release November 9, 1998
PRESS BRIEFING BY JOE LOCKHART The Briefing Room
1:26 P.M. EST Q Joe, why did you cancel Guam on the front end of the trip? MR. LOCKHART: We rescheduled Guam, as I said this morning, because of the tightness in the governor's race there. Under Guam law, if a candidate does not receive 50 percent of the vote there needs to be a runoff. There are issues now that I think Governor Gutierrez has got something like 49.7, something very close to 50, but just short of it. So we expect that there will probably be a runoff; it would take place just after our visit. We thought it would be better to go after the election is decided so as not to inject ourselves into the race. Q The President has been injecting himself in races all across the country for the last several weeks. You think he wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to help the Democrat win office. MR. LOCKHART: Well, we've had this discussion before about the President's philosophy and whether he should go and whether he shouldn't. I think this trip to Guam is very important to the people. Presidents don't get to the territory that often. This is not like New York City or Chicago. I think it's important to the people, we'd rather go once the political situation is resolved, the election results are known, and that it can be done in a way that isn't seen as political. Q Will he do a fundraiser while he's there?
MR. LOCKHART: Interesting idea. (Laughter.)
YMMV, johnny bravo
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 10, 1998.
Joe F. Ada, Felix P. Camacho, Dou A. Moyland, Joe P. Mesa and the mauleg hita mohons
You have a long history of hate and disrespect for the people of Guam with your concerted efforts to destroy the people's confidence of all elected officials and their supporters in your efforts to gain power and control on Guam. Do you really think that the people of Guam are unaware of your efforts to destroy the creditability of the Guam Election Commission. Already Joe Ada, Felix Camacho, Angel Santos, Mark Charfauros have met their doom because of the hate and contempt of 98 and its supporters. Whatever makes you think that Joe Ada and Felix Camcho will ever win a single election in the future? People's opinion of Felix is quickly changing to a vision of an angry hita boy via his words and actions. We really can't understand why Felix Camacho is acting like Angel Santos, but that's another story. We however understand Mr. Honesty & Intergrity's motivation for spearheading the destruction of the Guam Election Commission because he is simply not use to losing. You folks should do some reading to give you some enlightment to the political process and dynamics. I suggest as starters Jean-Jacqus Rosusseu's First & Second Discourses, How to Wind Friends by Dale Carnegie and Machiavellis's Prince. You may be able to realize why you keep losing elections or may not! You maulegs are simply unaware of the real world and are falling like flies.
-- (email@example.com), November 10, 1998.
You site classical political philosophy texts and you can't even spell "MAJORITY". Sounds like a feeble attempt from a 98er to sound smart. No wonder why you support Karl. Get a life and a edumakashun.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 10, 1998.
Majoriety, (Try harder)
I enjoyed your generalization; in regard to the applications of the Elightment in relevance to our current administration. Your venues in producing Rousseau or Voltaire is duly noted. However I am quite confused on the matter on how the anti-98 leaders would seem to study their works. Rousseau himself was passionately committed to individual freedom, especially from logic and rationale. As you know in 1762 he wrote The Social Contract, and in its contents denounced the ability of the current administration that held power then and also expressed the general will does not need to be held by the majority but could vibrantly held as the minority on a long term basis. I guess the comparison here would be for the, MAULEG team to act as Roussea had acted in against a common deterrent. In addition you also spoke of Voltaire, an enabler of The Philosophes, again another individual upset with the corruption and abuse of power of the Kings of France, and the first estate, the clergy and nobles. He had spent his time in the Bastille before leaving to England and returning home. In his return, his agenda was quite simple; to bring down a corrupt and abusive power. Again, Majority, you empower the Mauleg team to deem witness to shifts in society that became a catalyst in prevailing against a corrupt and abusive power. I find the use of Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince, to be quite extraordinary you have summed up our current administartion in a nutshell, and how incognito of you to entail such a fragrant comparison. Yes in his letters to Lorenzo de' Medici, a banker and employer also to Donatello, he does give such a theatrical example of our current administration, as stated in the Prince "...he need not embarass himself in escaping the scandal of those vices, but should devote his whole energies to avoid those which may cause him ruin..." or another, please I insist you read on "...I think if it necessary to make a selection, that it is safer to be feared than to be loved..." just one more majority, hold still "... there are two ways of deciding any contest: the one by laws, the other by force. The first is percuilar to men the second to beasts; but when laws are not suffeciently powerful it is necessary to recur to force..." Now majoriety (sic) all you have come to implicate on this matter is that the current administration is binding and well exepmlifies the forces laid to wager against Rousseau and Voltaire. In your passage of The Prince, again you are victorious in an outstanding effort in delivering the character of the current administration.You however forgot to mention Locke, and Montesquieu whom unlike Voltaire was real pessimistic or perhaps not so self-righteous. Now have we had enough of History 142, or would you like to discuss matters that garnish a sharper edge like Cobbans Volume on Modern France, 1715-1799 or would you like to interpret other works much more pivotal like Brintons work on The Anatomy of the Revolution. In essence we can compare and contrast the works of both Montesquieu and Machiavelli its relation to The Courtier, and its application on this election and its running candidates. But you are right in regard to interpreting and taking an absorbant nature on these individuals from the Enlightment Age, unfortunately Machiavelli was from the Rennaisance not the Elightment Age you so vaguely jotted, but in its prime introduction they all focus on the fradulent abuse of power and the reactionary methods in overcoming that curropt agent. So in a sense I do agree with you, the current administration is everything our real heroes fought against, and everything The Prince says leader should deviously run such a nation, and its people.
Majoriety (sic) your basic History 100 has real no properties we could, as adults, enlighten truly to the intricate recramations that have been set forth. Its good for chaser but the elephants have wider appetites.
-- Third Party (Thirdparty@gov.guam.org), November 10, 1998.
Yeah, what he said. Except, although I'm with them for this election, I don't agree with the end comment about "the elephants", I'd place myself with Rosseau on the extreme left (in the American version of the political spectrum). I'd also add Adam Smith and Aristotle to the reading list. Its clear we don't have a meaningful democracy here and we won't until we get rid of King Karl. We need a lot of work after that but its an important first step.
I also just gotta say I think the 98ers are soooo cute when they try to sound smart. Is that you Petey?
-- RTT (Ratt@tat.tat), November 10, 1998.
I apologize, I thought you mentioned Voltaire. You may exclude him from my deliberation, if you feel that his mention does not warrant any relevence to your predominate intentions. But to announce a Philospohes, one such renowned like Rousseau, seems remotely unacademic to not mention Voltaire. Again my sincerity sympathizes most with my endeavors of apologizing in matters I promote to be modest.
-- ThirdParty (Thirdparty@gov.guam.org), November 10, 1998.
If you are going to approach me about crying let me list the things to utilize against me because this "Narcissist wrapped for power and glory." seems like an oxymoron. Considering the fact that in old Greek lore, one commonly associated with Homer/Iiad, Narcissus could not draw himself away from himself (reflection) even when the promise of power and glory were presented to him, (and many other things) but still he did not budge. So it seems paradoxial that a Narcissist would seek, or wrap, himeslf in these endeavors when his main assembly is to ignore all other desires, except himself. But it is a poetic attempt, Really. I applaud you.
Now for you to approach me on a much more educational scale. Therefore we can both have a worthy debate; I have presented the following numericals.
1. Nov 08, 98 All precincts have been checked and though some have been rectified there are still several with them upholding no answers. (More ballots than signatures/ more signatures than ballots)
2. Nov 09, 98 It is a fact the FBI is investigating the case.
3. Nov 08/09 98 It is a fact that 5 non-eligible voters have casted their votes. Though it hasn't been mentioned there are an additional 9 that have been confirmed. From the top.
4. Nov 08, 98 Without a doubt duplicate SS numbers have been utilized because they have been signed on.
5. Nov 08, 98 The commision has a confession from several people who have signed for other people (which is illegal). Though it is present the committie will not entertain it until the other problems have been solved.
6. Nov 08, 98 A large amount of absentee ballots were not counted in the election.
Now, Really. I have provided you with some structure that you can base a lucrative reply on. Now if you want to be reply to me, and attempt to produce a message with cognitive recipes. I insist you read Aristophanes, or Euripedes; they both take an insight into Narcissism. You could interpret their approach in the manifestation of Echo's lover, Narcissus, and perhaps defame me. In addition, I keep reading how you constantly mention episodes of crying. Again, I implore you to read several articles; one recently written in last months issue of Self-Psychology; Now I'm no psychologist but I bet the last drop of water on earth- your messages parralels one of their research studies. Read it...and then you can e-mail if you are really having problems with your self-esteem and sexual orientation. Don't be upset, this referral is soley based on scientific consideration, and a humanistic approach to helping one another.
-- Third Party (Thirdparty@gov.guam.org), November 10, 1998.
Joe Ada, Felix Camacho, Doug Moyland, Joe Mesa, Tony Sanchez, Fred Castro and the Mauleg Mohons.
The President postphones his visit citing a post election glitch in the gubernatorial race by presidential Press Secreatry Joe Lockhart. The reason for this is that Joe Ada continues to try to destroy the creditability of the elections so he can have a rerun. Hey cry baby sorry loser Joe get use to it you and your maulegs have been rejected by the people of Guam. No matter how you twist and turn the people are aware of your motivations and will not support you in any election what so ever. Joe you at last tasted defeat and it will always be in your mouth. Bye cry baby losers
-- (email@example.com), November 10, 1998.
You have used 98er fallacy #6 (see the "Common 98er fallacies" thread for more info). Appropriate response: There you go again, Karl, blaming everything on everybody else. Where does the buck stop? (see how much time the 98er fallacy list saves? :)
In addition, you have again made reference to "cry babies" (and yes, we all know it's the same person posting the same insult on this thread). I think Third Party has addressed this psychological problem.
-- Lighthouse (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 10, 1998.
Joe Ada finally won something afterall... the President is not coming to Guam. As a result Carl is crying like baby and we have two cry babies. Joe is the cry baby loser and Carl is crying because buddy won't be here. Indeed a sad day for Guam.
-- (email@example.com), November 10, 1998.
Now you have ventured into, lashing at 98. Again I'm not a psychologist but perhaps some consistency might be more approachable. There is a book on sale "Nights of the Zodiac." (or someone they had beleived to be the Zodiac Killer) Its a documenatry on the "Zodiac Serial Killer", ironically he has extreme questions about his sexual orientation, and at one point in time levys the toils of the electorial season. He himself was a turncoat, fully supporting one side of a force (in many different forms), and then lashing out at that which he supported. Even his detremation in forcefully calling everyone a "wuss", "crybaby", and a "wimp" was duly recognized. Of course the suspect was profiled but never detained, so in some ways you sprite me; perhaps I have tumbled onto something much more vigorous than I anticipated. Also your toddling efforts to sustain the domain "Kuentos" with a different application on the login name is commendeble, in a parental way.
Your slipping CRY. Come on lets pick up the pace here, and be at least proud in your own agendas. If you are going to be repetitive, uncreative, and general in your lashes; at least be obedient to that medium you started. We all await your colorful efforts, child.
-- Third Party (Thirdparty@gov.guam.org), November 10, 1998.
These people who are using the term "crybaby" are in fact crying themselves, probably because they have something at stake by having this runoff. Any intelligent person can see that the President is not coming because HE DOES NOT WANT TO INTERFERE WITH THE ELECTION, because there are UNCOUNTED BALLOTS, REUSING OF S.S, NUMBERS. etc, etc., etc. Step into reality people and listen to thirdparty and the lighthouse because the facts are written right before you!!!
-- hello (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 10, 1998.
Joe F. Ada, Felix P. Camacho, Tony Court Sanchez, Doug Moylan, Joe Mesa, Curly Castro,
I guess the forum is no longer interesting and it is time to seek a new life... four more years. May I recommend a book... the Joe Ada's book on How to Win Friends & Influence People. Forget Rousseau, Plato, Machiavelli and so on, your fearless leader Joe Ada was not able to understand and apply these concepts against 98.
Thank you and goodbye.
-- (email@example.com), November 10, 1998.
Edge, Cry, Really whatever it may be this time; (I am proud by the way how you have used the "Hotmail" insert as your domain name; Bravo! Bravo!)
Don't jump the gun here. I insist you stay but maybe if you want to play more of a masquerade. Here are somethings to consider; It was the structure of your sentences that gave way to how you were determined of being a person with a hundred names. Again I'm not a psychologist but the assertive move into using "hotmail" as your domain name shows progress. And the constant mention of "crybaby" obviously captured the basics of investigating properties. I hate to be comprehensive on matters that require opinion, but your actions again remind me of Joey Duenas (perhaps this has become a fetish for me) and how he announced "50 plus one votes needed" and now says otherwise-basically he jumped ship on this one and Edge, Cry etc. you shouldn't jump ship here. I encourage you to stay in this forum. Again child I await your good humor. I am upset with myself however, I think of my 2 "discourses" as a truck running over a dog's hind leg and I a witness as it limps away. Your last message seems like a bark before the scurry. I apologize.
-- Third Party (Thirdparty@gov.guam.org), November 10, 1998.
With your many names, we tip our hats to your political discourses and in my humble opinion impressive. Just not prepared to dust the old school books to refresh the mind and present another twist. No matter, Realvoter best of luck in your efforts, however it will all be in vain without a spirtual guide. No matter how bleak or evil things appear you must arise above and try to concentrate on the good. Carl is cunning and he knows it is much safer to be feared than loved, a hard gifted worker capable of doing both good and bad. I admire Carl for he excels in the political arts and in my opinion more worthy then simple Joe to rule Guam. Nevertheless there are many that will disagree and that is fine, but we must all fall within the respected bounds of civil conduct and duty. I do enjoy Machiavelli's writings they are concerned with things as they really are and not as they ought to be... verita effecttuale, the effectual truth. Thank you and best of luck.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 11, 1998.
I am apologize if I have led you to believe that I am "RealVoter". I assure your assumptions have no substance. I am myself, and if its glory or reprimends I take all with reponsibility. If you paste, and compare both Realvoter and my messages, you will find a difference in structure and content. I am however, saddened, that you might feel its the dusting of old books that has come to light, when in fact they are in constant use; academically and socially. Thus; never collecting dust. Also my apparel on political philosiphy has no true value as being appreciated, as you humbly suggested, but a modest closure is offered for they are simply replies to other sources who have warranted its discussion. It is just ironic that it would be a 98 supporter (as I have assumed) that has brought up factors that work, or can be interpreted as a frictional alloy against the current administration. And in regards to the prevailing of perceived truth.... "Donna koto ga atte mo watashi-tachi wa keshitte akiramemaisen. Akuma e dekakemas" (No matter what happens we'll never give up. The devil will leave.) Again, take this with a grain of salt.
-- Third Party (Thirdparty@gov.guam.org), November 11, 1998.
May we join your third party? So where do we go from here? Who do we listen to? Who is your leader? What is your social security number? Do we qualify? Who are you? Can we sign up? Is this fun to do? What is the overall objective? mission? What books do you suggest we read? What is evil? Where is the evil? Who is with us? Who is not with us? What philosophy is acceptable and not? Does spelling count? What are the sources of knowledge? Can you explain why things are as they are alleged to be? What party do we follow? Is civil disobedience acceptable? Do you think the legal safeguards assure fairness? Do you have a name? What race do you represent? Are you religious? Is there danger from censorship? How do we preserve freedom and justice? How do we enforce morals? Should we shoot those that resist us? Is it proper to impede civil functions? Do we suspend judgment until all evidence is in? Why do your stay hidden? Shall we rationlize and find reason or arguments for our believe? Should we go to church? Should we eat meat? Can we follow the 10 comandments? Can evil exist alone? Can good exist alone? Is there dualism or naive realism? Is there a raional view of man? Can we validate knowledge? Was buddha enlighted? Is Islam peace? What are the problems of Hindus? Is analytic Locke and Hume a correct view? Are the Japanese rich? Is it okay to be atheistic? Can sex be fun? When can we stop? Is it okay to be mad? I see we are going nowhere and therefore I stop. I really can't follow your way of life; one direction and the gates ahead are locked. Don't give up I have been through that road before.
-- (email@example.com), November 11, 1998.
Biba Joe F. Ada, Felix P. Camcho, Joe Mesa, Doug Moylan, Tony Sanchez and the Mauleg Mohons
With our deep appreciation thank you for the assistance on the certification of Carl by the Guam Election Commission. Let that be a lesson forever learned, you must be smarter, crafty and more cruel than the devil to win. You must use your edge like Niccolo Machiavelli's Prince the 'effectual truth' to win. The foresight and shrewdness in political matters was the key. The Civil Principality chapter may help explain how Joe Ada was dommed by the 98's foxes and wolves. Adios and goodbye cry baby losers.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 12, 1998.
Has is occured to you 98ers that the President may have been cautioned about his appearance here on Guam when election funds and election results are in question? Perhaps the "birds of a feather, flock together" theory comes to mind.....
Interesting too how the election was certified today. It's scary to think about another 4 years of this type of dictatorship. God help us.
-- cathy (email@example.com), November 12, 1998.
I truly enjoyed your questions, but relevance? My answers are aimed towards discussions, if you feel I've been parental I apologize. I didn't mean to submit that feeling upon you. I meant not to disturb you but I do hope the further readings in this discussion may help to assist you in your endeavors. Judging from the questions, I'll assume that you know that most of them (your questions)are answered by your own interpretations. Quite honestly, a cup of french roast and some chips is how I appropriate my replies, so the many questions I encounter are..."Sugar and Cream? Barbeque or French Onion Chips? Donunts or Muffins? And the idea, to encourage me that I don't give up, well I could never find myself instructing someone how to apply themselves and then conceitedly consort to comparing myself to them. A man of hundred questions is no better than a man with a hundred answers.
Now it wouldn't be proper for me to insert myself in this discussion, if I at least did not pay tribute to the core substance. So people I was cruising today and I heard this great song...well here's a piece of it........Now that you have seen the light, stand up for your rights. Get up. Stand Up. Stand up for your rights. Get up. Stand up. Don't give up the fight.
-- Thirdparty (ThirdParty@gov.guam.org), November 14, 1998.
Thank you certification;
Now is there anyone else who would like to comment on the abilities of our incumbent as potrayed in Machiavelli's (sic) "The Prince?"
And Idea, I probaly mislead you in saying that I could never see myself telling people how to apply themselves, I think I've done it but never have I compared myself to anyone, and in conceit place my advantage above theirs. (Just to clarify things.)
And I thought I'd bring this up...the fact that you question me, and my thoughts, is enough because all these thoughts circle around the core agenda, so as you get of this computer and think one way or another....well lets just say you've joined the third party...So welcome new member, in a musing sense of brotherhood or sisterhood.
P.S. the Question on was Buddha enlighten...hilarious, simply hilarious. I thought that was the best. The other I have heard before. Thank you.
-- Third Party (ThirdParty@gov.guam.org), November 14, 1998.