I don't know about y'all, but I am reaching my saturation point real fast. When all of this discussion is boiled down, it turns into how are we'all gonna die. Will we starve? dehydrate? freeze? be nuked? gassed? shot? or poisoned? Will it be y2k? Global depression? Terrorists domestic or foriegn? If we are lucky, we may be able to live a little while longer in some sort of nightmareish God's little acre or Aushwitz existance. Then some say that we will probably die in bed with a smile on our faces. Our Gurus change their positions as often as they do thier shirts so we can't even trust them. I have prepared all that I am going to. I have urged my family and friends to do the same. I am done. I think it was Shakespere who said, in "Julius Cesar" "The coward dies many times before his death. The valient die but once." Even if old Bill did dress funny, he spoke like John Wayne on this point.

Bill in South Carolina.

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), October 31, 1998

Answers

Bill...I think that many have already reached the point where you are. After reading what you wrote, I sat here and thought about a man I knew who went to the doctor and was told he had cancer. How long would he live? Could it be cured? Would he suffer a great deal? Many questions. But from that day on he lived life to the fullest. Sure he went through some really rough times with surgery, chemo, radiation and spent many days and nights in the hospital. He recently died, leaving his family behind. This man never had to face y2k. Life is so unpredictable. A person can be here one day and gone the next. You say that you are done. Many have not even started yet. You are ahead of the situation, right now. Get on with your life. Enjoy it to the fullest. Do all the things that you can possibly do that will give you the best memories should you face some of those scenarios that you mentioned. You don't want to find yourself down the road wishing you had done this or that but instead you were so wrapped up in y2k that you wasted what precious time you had. Once again I am reminded of a verse "When times are good, be happy. When times are bad, consider that God has made the one as well as the other." Right now the times are still good...might not be for very long though as some say after the New Year '99 gets here, things will begin to change. To get out and enjoy however much good time we have left is vital!!! Worrying about our demise or how we will live or die only takes away from the precious time that we have left for living a still normal life. No, I am not in denial and I don't think that this is a form of denial. I am fully aware of y2k and the wide range of scenarios that could lie ahead of us, next year and after 2000. Like I said previously...I refuse to let y2k rob me of any more precious time (life) than it already has and will before long. Spending a lot of time now fearing what lies ahead isn't going to change it. Please try to enjoy life to the fullest right now, especially since there is plenty of food, water, heat, gasoline to drive anywhere you desire, etc. This gives me much comfort right NOW. Blondie

-- Blondie Marie (Blondie@future.net), November 01, 1998.

Bill

Can I have shot if it's not already taken? But not in the gut, I want it nice and clean from ear to ear.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 01, 1998.

Uncle Deedah.... That is brutal and not very encouraging to say the least! :( I don't think that Bill was looking for that kind of response, do you? Maybe a different one would be of help! :-) Blondie

-- Blondie Marie (Blondie@future.net), November 01, 1998.

Blondie

My tongue was planted firmly, shoulda used an emoticon for effect. Having said that, and gotten it out of the way, I could think of many, many, many worse ways to 'bite it'. We will now explore this using the old "Ben Franklin close".

On the upside:

No pain

No warning (fear)

No suffering (falls under pain also, but I'm tipping the scales in my favor)

It is quick and easy

On the downside:

It's messy

PS, I could never, ever argue with a woman named Blondie. I do not know why, and it does not make any sense in light of the fact that I only know you in a cyberworld. Still there is something about that "Blondie" thing that makes it impossible for me to attack you, or to ever wish you anything but the best. Perhaps that old male knee jerk response is bred deep in me.

Best wishes to you for ever and always, the male cybernistic pig Deedah.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 01, 1998.

Bill, I agree with Blondie. Enjoy every day as much as possible.

Blondie, I think that was just Uncle Deedah's "John Wayne" impersonation. :-)

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), November 01, 1998.

I hear ya. Some folks think I'm a real Gary North-style doomsayer and pessimist when I tell them "Look, even if by some huge miracle we did completely fix Y2K, in the end it just doesn't matter because everyone on this planet must still die sometime." But it's true, I swear. You can trust me on this one. I'm not making it up. I've seen it for myself. It's a game of solitaire with 51 cards - a shell game with no ball. Sooner or later, your number's up. End of story.

But more seriously and, hopefully, more to the point, Y2K saturation is real and it needs to be acknowledged and dealt with - take a couple of weeks off and focus on more enjoyable things. Get away from it - especially if you've already been preparing for a while now.

A lot of different outcomes are posssible; the potential for danger is quite real. The precise outcome is yet to be determined. I keep reminding myself that many people are indeed working on the technical side of this and they will most certainly do everything they can in the time remaining. Others are busy with contingency planning (some of it is realistic, some of it not). Awareness is increasing albeit slowly. Will everything get fixed? Not a chance. Should these people stop working because it's hopeless? Not a chance. Will it be enough to avert a serious large scale disaster?

I think there's a good chance if...

If maybe, the really critical stuff like electricity gets fixed or is able to 'hobble along on one leg', and,

if awareness continues to grow in businesses, homes and community organizations, and,

if we all don't assume 'this is somebody elses problem and they will fix it', and,

if we get additional strong leadership on Y2K, and

if we all share in the responsibility for solving this, and

if we are prepared to live without 100% dependency on these systems working well 99% of the time.

Then maybe, just maybe, large scale disaster can be averted.

But I do believe it will take all of us though - not just the techies and/or the contingency planners.

-Arnie

PS: Also, here's my personal recipe for Rum-Soaked Y2K Sugar Remediettes (quite yummy). It's a wee bit complicated but well worth the effort:

"Combine 2 parts faith (non-blind style only), 20 parts hard work, 20 parts community and personal preparation, 5 parts attitude, 5 parts responsibilty, 3 parts good humor, 8 parts healthy skepticism, 12 parts research and investigation, and 9 parts independent verification into a large pot. Add a dash of good fortune and a drop of sweet bitters. Add rum and sugar to taste. Stir over a slow flame for 12 months, taking frequent breaks when saturated. Pray as needed and make sure to skim off the denial, corporate PR statements and the lawyers as they float to the surface - left in, any of these can quickly ruin the entire batch. Then pour the mixture into individual molds and bake at 2000 degrees (F) and work together until disaster is averted."

(Jack Daniels may be substituted at any time for equal amounts of rum)

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), November 01, 1998.

Bill;

I'm glad that you have reached your saturation point (even though I am a little envious of you as I still have about 45-50 ((guess)) days left to go. I hope that I finish on time. Does this mean that we will have a full year for testing? Just kidding.

I intend to follow the Blondie Marie school of thought when I reach my SAT point. I can't imagine where it all will go so I also can't imagine just what I'll miss out on. So I will try to see/do as much as I can.

As for the options: My high up favorite is of course to outlive everyone else and to do so in perfect health and without want but I guess that isn't an available option after all. So my next best- this thing is all a dud, no one gets hurt by it, and I get to keep on keeping on for awhile so I can see all of everything that I missed on the first pass and then to go quietly into the night very quickly and without pain.

S.O.B.

-- sweetolebob(La) (buffgun@hotmail.com), November 01, 1998.

A birth certificate is nothing more than the first number on a death certificate. No matter what discoveries are made, even if we learn to replace every cell in our bodies with nano machines, death will still occur. The universe itself will die at some future date - ain't that a bummer. So if you don't try to enjoy life while you have it - you are wasting it.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), November 01, 1998.

I am an old retired homicide detective from L.A. I have seen more dead people up close than most. To die is not very high on my list of things to do. Suicide is usually stupid and always painful for those left behind, however There are occassions where suicide might be appropriate. An old homicide text book said that the investigator should try to walk in the dead man's shoes. I have had cases where me and my partner were the only ones at the funeral. One case where we found an old couple in bed with plastic bags over their heads. Looked like a murder until we found the note and the literature from the Hemlock Society.

To go back to John Wayne. How many of us would deprive a neighbor's kid some food just to live another day unless the cavalry was on its way? Hell, if the cavalry was on its way that might be even more reason to give the kid some food at your own expense. I saw a documentary on the history channel about one of the ceasars who imprisoned one of his sons and left him to starve. The man had eaten the straw from his bed. It must really hurt. Hell, I don't even like to diet. One of my responders on this thread said he would prefer one through the ears. You should know that many of our brave pioneers have bitten the big burrito in exactly that manner if they haden't sold their gun for food by that time. By the way Deedah, You remind me of the psychologist with the dirty mind who was always drawing dirty pictures with those ink blots. My first posting said nothing of suicide.

Please excuse my spelling. My spell checker, (Theresa) is still asleep.

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), November 01, 1998.

Bill

I would like to see your drawings. My post said nothing about suicide either. Your first post incuded the following-

"When all of this discussion is boiled down, it turns into how are we'all gonna die. Will we starve? dehydrate? freeze? be nuked? gassed? shot? or poisoned?"

I looked at your list, and decided that out of the options offered to me, that being shot (depending on placement) would mean the least suffering. I am in no way ready to add an extra hole to my noggin, so all of you may relax. If the thought of your own death makes you (not you in particular, Bill) uncomfortable, don't think about it. If you ignore it long enough, it will go away. Don't worry, be happy! I am.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), November 01, 1998.

Pushed by a series of events to my bookshelf, I chanced to pull open my battered copy of "Leaves of Grass" this morning. Thought I'd share a few of Old Walt's words about death with you--

What do you think has become of the young and old men? And what do you think has become of the women and children?

They are alive and well somewhere; The smallest sprout shows there is really no death; And if ever there was, it led forward life, and does not wait at the end to arrest it, And ceas'd the moment life appear'd.

All goes onward and outward--nothing collapses; And to die is different from what any one supposed, and luckier.

------

And here in the fine hours before we find that out for ourselves, how right you all are! There's juice to be sucked from these days and savored. Sometimes it's just a matter of how you look at a thing and whether you've had a good sleep. But when you find one fruit is squeezed dry or tasting bitter, a good thing to do is find yourself another one to wet your whistle. (Personally, those rum-soaked remediettes did the trick for me!)

-- Faith Weaver (faith-weaver@usa.net), November 01, 1998.

Bill,

IMO, this thread is without doubt the best evidence of the sanity of the participants here and the best justification of the existence of the entire forum that I have encountered. Thank you for initiating it.

Y2K aside, the objective reality is that the only thing separating any of us from whatever comes next is a single heartbeat--and none of us knows just which one it might be. I do not intend for my last thought to be, "I wish I had. . .(whatever).

I too am up to my eyeballs in Y2K. I have to say that I simply feel better after reading this thread than after reading any other.

Even though, as Deedah says, it's only a cyberworld, it has its advantages and this thread is one of them.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), November 01, 1998.

This is for Bill and anyone else out there who is struggling with our future and what lies ahead. We are perseverers...we have been preparing for the worst, possibly for some time now, since we really don't know the full extent of what is to come. We need to hang in there and keep on going. Some days when things seem so overwhelming, it is comforting to come here and be encouraged and relate to one another what we are feeling. It is still an everyday thing for me to run across people who don't even know what I am talking about when I bring Y2k up. Makes me want to run here for moral support! :-) At least here we can express our fears and not have to look at bewildered people who don't have a clue as to what we are "venting" about! I am so thankful for this forum and have made good friendships because of it. It is odd that in a world with so many people...I come HERE for friendship and understanding. Doesn't matter what anyone looks like, (we could be sitting here in our pajamas or underwear!)it is about relating and caring for others. Yes, sometimes we do get into debates and disagreements...after all, we are human! Remember back to Gayla Dunbar's great post "What about you?" We have already been through the introductions. Everyone enjoyed reading about each other and getting to know them. I hope we can continue on through '99 and for those of you who have come aboard since her post...maybe she will start a new one!?! Gayla???? Keeping the Faith, Blondie

-- Blondie Marie (Blondie@future.net), November 01, 1998.

I don't know why, but the posts on this thread reminded me of an old joke: Seems this fellow was concerned about his health, and so went in for a check-up. Some days later, his doctor called and said, "I've got some good news for you, and some bad news." The man immediately said, "Tell me the good first." So the doc said "Your tests show that you have a terrible disease, and only three days to live." The man said, "Holy moley, if that's good news, what's the BAD?! Whereupon the doc said, "Well, I've been trying to reach you for two days!"

Six months into this, still telling people we have a terrible disease. Still heartsick at the lack of action. As for myself, I have no option as to how to go. I have a Down Syndrome son who is the light of my life, therefore have no choice but to prepare, no choice but to survive. If I don't, then this beautiful, loving, gentle soul may cease to enrich this particular world. Perhaps we should re-examine our motives, one child at a time. We each have those who depend upon us, (or will soon) and therefore, we each have the same motive to survive.

I go daily from frenzied preparations to sobbing-in-the-dark despair. Thanks for the words from Walt, as for me and Kit, we'll see you in the new Millenium. (Uncle D, Kit prefers root beer, by the way.)

-- Lon Frank (postit@here.com), November 01, 1998.

I understand. It can be a bit overwhelming. But the human race isn't going away. It just looks like the pot is going to get stirred a bit by the hand of Fate. This isn't something new. Remember, Creation has never really ended. Have some faith. You'll get by with a little preparation, a little help from your friends and family, and a little luck.

There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune: Omitted, all the voyage of their life Is bound in shallows and in miseries. - Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

-- R. D..Herring (drherr@erols.com), November 01, 1998.

My oh my! For the first time, this forum has brought tears to my eyes. Lon, I will be praying especially for you and your precious child. Before reading your post, however, it suddenly dawned on me what is different about the folk on this forum, compared to our governmental "leaders"...HONESTY! Often I have disagreed with various people here, but I have also been greatly encouraged by others. And I have found much practical help here, too, as well as being activated to alert family, friends, neighbors, local AARP chapter, my church, anyone who will listen. Does anyone sense that, as time goes on and our politicians are seeing the "handwriting on the wall," there is possibly a holding back of the truth in order to maintain control? Or am I being paranoid? This makes me all the more thankful for this forum, Ed's/Jennifer's Book, etc. Where would all of us, who have already made some good preparations, be if we were depending upon our "leaders?" I'd be months behind, for sure! I'm going to miss all of you when the time comes. Maybe someday, we can meet in the center of this land (Chicago?) for a reunion!! God bless all of you!

-- Holly Allen (Holly3325@juno.com), November 01, 1998.

Gosh its nice to see others in a tizzy. I 'achieved' saturation about last Thursday. Had a crummy couple of days and then a new sense of reality set in. What I realized was that even if all the 'bad' stuff happens, at least 98% of the infastructure will remain.

The Y2K Bugger is not going to eat all the copper and fiber that's been laid. Nor is it going to eat up all the asphalt and concrete that is poured. Yes - we are going to take hits in a lot of ways. But if most of us keep _most_ of our wits about us, the infastructure is just there waiting there to be used.

Computer based phone system goes in the toilet, welcome back to the switchboard. Yes, I've read that this sort of thinking in not a viable option. I tend to agree but offer this thought : I can build a fire either using a lighter or by rubbing two sticks together - and they both result in fire. It is mostly a matter of will whether we choose to step back a few paces to continue the journey.

If you feel the urge to flame, please don't - we have too much to do than play one upsmanship. Thanks.

-- jd (hemwat@bellsouth.net), November 01, 1998.

I think I'll print out the responses to this thread, and in my darkest moments of living, I shall get out the pages and read, then comtemplate what I have read, read it again, tuck it away, and enjoy the present moment until the next time. Thanks to you all!

-- Bardou (Bardou@baloney.com), November 01, 1998.

Yes, I will miss the X-files. Yes, I will miss instant hot showers. I'll even miss this forum, but life will go on. Food, water and shelter are the basics, the rest we can live without. Cover the basics in your plan for survival, and hope for the rest. Learn a skill for a de-modernized world. Sew, fish, cut wood, fix bikes, etc... Chips will be replaced, code will get fixed, power will come back on. We have survived plagues, world wars, Bill Clinton, etc... Y2K will be like a mud slide taking out a section of the 101, may kill a few, piss a lot of people off, disrupt our trip but a detour will be found and we will continue on. Keep on truckin!

-- Bill (bill@microsoft.com), November 02, 1998.

To get completely off topic and look up a little -- frankly I dont know whos who any more -- not sure I wanna know, I tried to offer a link.

It appeared in todays Sunday, San Jose Mercury News, under the Perspectives section, page 3P, by Paul E. Wagner titled: Triumph or Travesty? A pioneer reminds us to reach for the stars.

It brought tears to my eyes. I'm trying to search on the web-site for it and can't find it. (Sent the Merc an e-mail about it). Ill just type in (groan) the parts I liked:

This is about dreams and the human spirit. It is about looking to the stars and wanting to touch them, rather than pull them down. ...

... On Thursday, John Glenn, the man who road an Atlas rocket into orbit on Feb. 20th, 1962, restored our nations pride and our belief in heroes. He did it with the humility and the courage that embody this countrys ideals, once again reaching for the stars for the sheer thrill of it. ...

... We dreamed again. We needed to. It felt good. Then it was back to our earthbound lives of family, work, tawdry dispatches from Washington, senseless military conflicts and reliance on the technology Glenns flight helped bring. ...

... But how can they measure a dream? ...

... But let the astronauts walk on the moon, or struggle for life in a crippled Apollo 13 craft, or stand on the end of a robotic arm and grab a spinning satellite with a gloved hand while the Earth circles below, or float free in space with a jetpack the only lifeboat -- and we are slack-jawed.

The pictures of stars being born brought to us by a repaired Hubble Space Telescope, the images of comet fragments slamming into Jupiter delivered by the Galileo probe, or the stark landscape shots of the surface of Mars shot by the Sojourner rover and posted on the Internet have only added to the wonder. ...

But there is no other government endeavor, short of war, that can capture the imagination of this country and the world like the quest to fling off our earthly bonds and find our destiny. ...

My grandpa and grandma, poor dirt farmers in Missouri, who lived in a house with no indoor plumbing, got out of bed on July 20, 1969, to watch a fuzzy black-and-white television transmit live video as Neil Armstrong stepped onto the moon.

The dream is in our soul.

So to those who look to the stars and see something to drag down, there is but one response. Godspeed, John Glenn.

Post-it Note: I just observe that all of you on this thread are discouraged and tired of Y2K. Youve been at it so much longer than any of us newbies has any concept of. Thank you for trying to blow the global whistle. Actually, you have. Small comfort, I know.

Try, as you take time out to smell the roses, to think of us as all in a connected race. A relay race. One team passes the baton to the next one, and so on -- yet we all keep sprinting. There really are so very many smart people out there who have no idea of the ramifications of Y2K. As they get jolted, some will get scared, some will get thinking, others, like the ones on the global stage, who have a large public following, will take action. Each in their own way. If we all pull together we just might shift the richter scale around significantly.

Call me an optimist. Thats okay. My Dad, before he retired and later passed on, used to work for Lockheed Missiles And Space Corp. in Sunnyvale. I remember him telling me once that over at Vandenberg or I forget where, he had had the opportunity to just put his thumbprint on one of the Apollo rockets that later carried an Astronaut into space. (My cousin once was in the Astronaut training program). It was a very small thing, for my Dad to have touched, but it meant a lot to me. We just never know what we could touch until we try. Maybe we can all touch on some hope. Or a star. Like John Glenn.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), November 02, 1998.

Great string of posts here... JD is very accurate in pointing out that copper and fiber is not going to disappear, even the water pipes will still be around. The infrastructure is not going to vanish overnight. The apocalypse scenario is so deeply ingrained in the Judeo-Christian belief system that some forget that we are creating our world and we have free will to create it however we want. If you find yourself in a violent neighborhood, it's about time to set your priorities and find a place where you are surrounded with people who want to live the way you do. People on a path of evolvement are used to shifting gears and seeking a higher ground. People who are either stuck in a rut or complacent with their situation can either wake up now and make positive change in their life or wait for the alarm and have a rude awakening.

-- Jon (jonmiles@pacbell.net), November 02, 1998.

Dear Diane,

I've traveled the world. Up the Mississippi River, down the Rhine River, around Hong Kong harbor.

What brings tears to my eyes is at what cost we blast into space. The poverty in vast areas of US is unbelievable. We have to change our mindset to redirect our priorites and brainwashing. But there's no one left to teach us how to do this, and we would not understand any way.

Gotto go

-- Creature (animal@zoo.net), November 02, 1998.

I really disagree that there is no one left to teach...consider the buddhist saying: "When the student is ready, the teacher will arrive".

More accurate your next statement that readiness of those who need to learn is the key. The rules for being human posits just that...the answers are all around...only need to pluck them from the air....only need new eyes, the jog in perspective that permits one to "see".

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), November 02, 1998.