Y2K in the Bible???greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Is it possible that Y2k was foretold in the bible?
The prophet Daniel wrote over 2500 years ago of a end time world ruler, I believe yet to come.
Daniel 7:25 states ...."and (he shall)think to change TIMES and laws".... The "he" refers to this end time global ruler.
I have studied the word for years and never understood what was meant here. Could it be that this end time world ruler will somehow provide an answer to Y2K.
Could the term "change times" refer to some type of calender change which could affect the way hardware works.
I know that this sounds far out but was wondering if anyone else had heard of such an interpretation.
-- WAYNE WITCHER (WWITCHER@MVTEL.NET), October 26, 1998
Oh dear Wayne, don't get a "religious" thread going here. I don't mind personally debating the 'fire and brimstone' crowd because I used to be a fundie until I discovered the truth.
Anyhow, very basically, those prophecies spoken by Daniel were all completely fulfilled about 2000 years ago. The "end times", as you put it, refers to a broad period of time that started in the first century and will continue until the end of this age, which could be a few thousand or few million more years.
If you want more detail, let me know and I'll point you to a good URL where you can study this issue more fully.
-- Craig (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 26, 1998.
Y2K is not specifically mentioned by name in scripture...but its effects on the world can certainly be construed if a worse case scenario develops. The 4 horsemen in Revelation for example have ridden many times before, as they are a cycle that war brings. False prophets or beliefs in saviors that are bogus, war, followed by famine and death. Every war has had the ride of these horsemen.
As far as a world ruler...it is possible that to hold onto what is left, sovereign nations and people submit authority to a world- government. The dream Nebuchadnezzar had in Daniel of the statue that had the feet of iron and clay mixed, I always believed was symbolic of a reunited holy Roman Empire, or United Europe. Ten toes representing ten kings or nations that form this alliance. Because the alliance is iron and clay, they don't mix and shortly fall apart after about 3-1/2 years. They would have to be formed quickly and in desperation to have that kind of union. Y2K come to mind? Europe has been trying to unite for many years, but never really can of it's own political and sovereign hang ups. Y2K may be the desperation nations give in to to remain viable. It is possible that this world ruler is not one man, but a system of government or a governing body that would cause all who would buy or sell to submit to its authority.
Bible prophecy is pretty clear to me as to the fate of the United States and Britain, If Y2K is the catalyst that sets it off, we will get the blame for it and our captivity mentioned in Daniel and Revelation will begin.
As far as changing times and laws, you may have a speculation of worth. My understanding is that the Beast or false prophet will definitely change the laws God has set down in His word. The 666 mark of the beast thing that everyone speculates is a bar code or ID card is ridiculous. Symbolically, scripture refers "forehead" to the way a person thinks, and "Right hand" as a symbol of action. So the mark of the beast may be the way people think and act, and if you do not agree with this "mark" you will not be able to buy or sell in this new system. Remember that this end-time ruler actually convinces the world that the returning Messiah is actually the Anti-christ and gathers 200 million horsemen (soldiers) in Armageddon to do battle with Him in the Valley of Hinnom.
Yup, some that are convinced TEOTWAWKI will be caused by Y2K may actually have some prophetic writings to back their claim. But your speculation may have some validity. I suppose we will find out in just over a years time.
-- Mike Deering (email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
Thanks for the advise. I think you will find that there are a lot of us
OK let try that again,
Thanks for the advise. I think you will find that there are a lot of "us" out here. Not looking for a religious debate.
Still you almost draw me into one, but na, me thinks not.
-- WAYNE WITCHER (WWITCHER@MVTEL.NET), October 26, 1998.
And have you ever wondered, Babylon is fortold to be destroyed in Revelation. Babylon in old test. represents, among many things, a confusion of language. Remember the tower of babel?
Will we see a further confusion in languages (computer languages) when Y2K and our financial systems (babylon) are brought down?
-- wayne (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 26, 1998.
My bible doesn't mention any of that...the wording is quiet different...(I musn't be of the right religion)
But what you both said...hey wait...some things and numbers jump out of the screen at me...
"Could the term "change times" refer to some type of calender change which could affect the way hardware works." - Didn't Dan Quayle offer that solution already? "Turn the computers back to 1950!" (Not exactly a ruler, but hey, even a prophet could miss the bullseye by a couple inches shooting from 2500 years...)
"Ten toes representing ten kings or nations that form this alliance. Because the alliance is iron and clay, they don't mix and shortly fall apart after about 3-1/2 years." - Wasn't that the ten horns? An eleventh horn sprouting up and uprooting 3 horns or somthin'? Well in any case, we already have the G8, I'm sure a couple more is going to be added in the group soon, they started with 6 not that long ago.
"Bible prophecy is pretty clear to me as to the fate of the United States and Britain, If Y2K is the catalyst that sets it off, we will get the blame for it and our captivity mentioned in Daniel and Revelation will begin." - It's pretty clear to me that it's those dang Americans who've invented the first computer and started this technological revolution, don't need no prophet to point out to me that it's thier fault we're in this mess, eh..
"The 666 mark of the beast thing that everyone speculates is a bar code or ID card is ridiculous. Symbolically, scripture refers "forehead" to the way a person thinks..." - Heh wait...ever thought maybe Daniel saw the number upside-down in his revealing dream? 999...9/99....get it? ewww...I'm shivering now.
"Remember that this end-time ruler actually convinces the world that the returning Messiah is actually the Anti-christ and gathers 200 million horsemen (soldiers) in Armageddon to do battle with Him in the Valley of Hinnom." - hmm...only thing this can mean is, Dan Quayle is going to convince us that IT'S ALL BILL GATES' FAULT! That's right! He whom we revere and look-up to in high hopes that he will deliver us all from this Y2K technological glitch! Every american(except 60 million onlookers cheering the rest onward) rush to the Valley of Silicon (Daniel misspelled it Hinnom, or the right spelling got lost in subsequent editions of the bible.)
"Yup, some that are convinced TEOTWAWKI will be caused by Y2K may actually have some prophetic writings to back their claim. But your speculation may have some validity. I suppose we will find out in just over a years time." - You forgot to mention that a thousand years of prosperity and peace would follow...That would come about because of the Darwinian effect. Only the smart and beautiful people would survive Armageddon a la Y2K and reproduce...Oooh baby. Nirvana. NO MORE WINDOWS '95-LIKE STOOOPID INVENTIONS!!
I can't wait for the trouble to start anymore! All this suspence is DRIVING ME CRAZY!! Who's right? Who's wrong?!
-- He who mistook his prozac for Skittles (email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
A quite ancient Chinese I Ching, Book of Changes, far older that the Bible -- approx. 3,000 to 4,000 years old, give or take a millennium - - talks about whenever there is an ending, there is a new beginning.
The Chinese ideogram for Crisis is Dangerous Opportunity. Another interpretation is a combination of ''opportunity'' and ''dangerous wind.'' Any crisis is an ''opportunity riding the dangerous wind.''
Could we all please link hang gliders together here and focus on a positive future, rather than assuring that we all sink?
Dare I say it. Could we please try to prove the bible WRONG guys!!! Last time I looked it was written on paper, not etched in stone.
P.S. Got your computer-nerd plastic pocket protector with pencils and erasers ready? Now class, erase, and start over. Slide-rules step front and center. The abacus still works too.
-- Diane J. Squire (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 27, 1998.
The End Of The Age ..a novel.. 1995..by Pat Robertson is a blend of SF and revelations with a meteor hit and survival behavior ... ending with the last days and the ultimate battle between good and evil. It is an interesting read. I just don't want to "give away" the ending on who the winner is.
-- ronbanks (email@example.com), October 27, 1998.
I have no idea if this has anything to do with Y2K or not, but Revelation 16:10 says:
"The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness."
-- The D.J. (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 27, 1998.
Let it go Diane. We've been down this road before.
-- Buddy Y. (DC) (email@example.com), October 27, 1998.
Diane, you're really in your element, now that you've found this forum.
-- Richard Dale (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 27, 1998.
The kingdoms mentioned in Daniel are very simple:
1st - the one Daniel was in at the time he wrote it - Babylonian 2nd - the Medes and Persians (ie Darius the Mede mentioned in the bible and the book of Esther during Persian rule) 3rd - the Greeks and Alexander the Great 4th (the next kingdom to come was the iron/clay) Roman Empire Daniel clearly states that the 5th kingdom would come while the 4th one was still in existence and it would put an end to all other kingdoms (ie John the Baptist and Jesus begin their ministry under Roman rule by preaching the "kingdom of Heaven is at hand")
I don't see how you can make a hyperjump to the G8 or something like that. The Roman empire did change the calendar system just like Daniel predicted.
-- James Chancellor (email@example.com), October 27, 1998.
Some of you might enjoy reading this guy's interpretation of the book of revelation. APOCALYPSE FROM THE STATE CHURCH TO MODERNITY; The history of the Old World predicted by prophecies?
-- (o)(o) (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 27, 1998.
Thank you James for that accurate and concise answer. I certainly wish that I had understood that many years before I finally did, but each in their own time I suppose.
I would recommend that anyone out there in greenspunland who still believes that the "Antichrist" is still coming with his branding iron needs to diligently study the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in the year AD70 and get a grip on the reality that all the prophecies were fulfilled through Christ.
A sign that you have probably gone over the edge and need help is if you are viewing Y2K as a scriptural event. If this is you, may I urge you to wake up to the truth before you find yourself in need of major psychological help. Y2K is a serious situation brought on by a combination of factors, none of which involve a God who is p*ssed off because He hated COBOL and Assembler.
Hey, perhaps COBOL is really scripturally significant. I mean it just couldn't be a coincidence that it is the acronym for "Curse Of Babylon On Languages" could it!
-- Craig (email@example.com), October 27, 1998.
Whatever happens, I for one will be very glad when the millenium has passed and the current spate of end time novels is done and over with. Most of them are awful. Even Stephen King has done one - The Stand for Pete's sake.
-- Paul Davis (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 27, 1998.
Oh yea, the Bible,the literary book that was rewritten 4 times and changed for the good of the Catholic Church at the times it was needed to keep all the peasants beliving in that there is a real meaning behind the words. Perhaps we need to contact author; Michael Drosnin who wrote: The Bible Code and see if Y2K is mentioned in it to verify if the BIBLE is really a coded message, who knows ???? Might be worth the effert. To satisfy some of the readers who think Y2K is part of a Bible message for salvation.
-- Furie (email@example.com), October 27, 1998.
To say Daniel was already fulfilled 2000 years ago as Craig did is very problematic as the last chapter states that the time prophesied will be a time of trouble such as never occured before. To say that day has come means all will be very good forever even in our nuclear world as the worst has already happened.Christ quoted Daniel and made it clear that the prophecies of the "end"refer ultimately to the time preceeding his return.Christ speaks of a time unparalleld in man's history.There can only be one such time and to say that man has seen that day already doesn't wash.
-- Dennis Chornomaz (Dchorno@aol.com), October 27, 1998.
Diane, you're really in your element, now that you've found this forum. -- Richard
Methinks thats not exactly a compliment.
At any rate, could you point me to sites that are offering solutions on positive contingency planning? Somehow I suspect you might know where they are.
-- Diane J. Squire (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 27, 1998.
Buddy Y, you are SO right!
Furie, if you will look down in the older threads under the Misc. category, you will find a thread titled "Y2K encoded in the Bible." In it you will find info. about the Bible Code (plus a lot of arguing just like here. sigh) Here is one link:
-- Gayla Dunbar (email@example.com), October 27, 1998.
o.k. class. Here is THE article that puts y2k and the Bible in the right perspective:
-- bbrown (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 27, 1998.
What this all boils down to is several interpretations of what several of you think is what the Bible says. The fact of the matter is, no one knows. Why do you think there are thousands of religions out there? None of them can even agree to disagree! We'll all be surprised at the outcome of TEOTWAWKI. Until then, I'm living each day as it happens.
-- Just Living Each Day (EyesWideOpen@quant.com), October 27, 1998.
dianne-if you go to the Beyond 2000 discussion board, maybe you'll find what you're looking for....?
-- Damian Solorzano (email@example.com), October 28, 1998.
Diane-have you ever visited the Beyond 2000 Discussion Board? It might be a place you'd be interested in, as it concentrates more on envisioning tomorrow, rather than just surviving the immediate. ( hello, to a fellow native Californian. I am in No Ca.)
-- Damian Solorzano (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 28, 1998.
Anyone have comments on Revelation 16:10?
-- The D.J. (email@example.com), October 28, 1998.
Let it go Diane. We've been down this road before. -- Buddy Y. (DC)
Yep. Im an optimist. And youre right Buddy.
Furie, thanks for trying. Theyre not interested in Truth. If theyd been living -- probably were -- 2,000 years ago, theyd have nailed a lot more people than Christ to a cross.
Damian, greetings to a native CA-er. No I have not been to over to Beyond 2000, but I will. Thank you!!
Richard, Im still interested in those additional links.
-- Diane J. Squire (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 28, 1998.
Despite firm resolve not to do this I'm gonna...:
My honey and I were just sitting around last night reading the old testament of the bible...(don't ask). We have fundie friends forever trying to save our sorry heretical asses, we thought we'd have some fun.
Most religious texts have been manipulated for millennia for the purposes acquired by ruling, usually priestly elite, in order to change the dominant theological/spiritual beliefs of the people they were in the process of conquering. The strong men came in with their gods of war, and gods on mountain tops, and their priests said..."oh my gosh...look...see our god says it's okay to do this to you..and you better not buck us...cos OUR god will get you if you do...or we will, and besides,...you god is evil or doesn't really exist," which ever comes first, OR applies best.
"Theology is ultimately political. The way human communties deify the transcendent and detremine the categories of good and evil have more to do with the power dynamics of the social systems which create the theologies than with the spontaneous revelation of truth from another quarter."
And another quote:
"Judging from the production of religious mythology of the royal scribes and priests found in the archives of palaces of the Indo-European-ruled nations of the historic periods, often in the language of the conquered populations, we may surmise that political aims, rather than religious fervor, may well have been the motivation. The prevalence of myths that explain the creation of the universe by the male deity or the institution of kingship, when none had existed previously, strongly hints at the possibility that many of they myths were written by priests of the invading tribes to justify the supremacy of the new male deities and to justify the installation of a king as the result of the relationship of that king to the male deity.
Uncle, if you read this,...I always try at least once to teach the singing of melodies to all creatures...before throwing up my hands...mea culpa.
-- Donna Barthuley (email@example.com), October 28, 1998.
Damian,..thanks for suggesting our Beyond 2000 discussion board. I might add though that it is a place for people who are "preparing for the present" and "envision the future now".
Please come by, everyone,...come with your creativity and your visions of what we will make of our lives on this beautiful Big Blue Marble in space.
Find us at: http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb134913
-- Donna Barthuley (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 28, 1998.
Let us all now remember what Thomas Jefferson said about The Book of Revelations.
-- Paul Davis (email@example.com), October 31, 1998.