D-Day -- 1944 and 2000greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
I work on PC's for a living, mostly for the home user. One of my clients is a man who's 82 years young. He was part of the infantry invasion at Omaha Beach, Normandy, D-Day, June 6, 1944. He's seen some stuff. Is a decorated veteran. And he's amazingly computer literate.
Hadn't seen him for a few months until last week. Much to my surprise, he's been following this Y2K stuff pretty closely; what he can glean from the internet, anyway. I'd sent him a few links about the subject several months back, and he had followed up on them, much to my surprise and pleasure.
I asked him what he thought about the subject; he said he thought there were too many people preaching gloom and doom. Said that as far as he's concerned, those who are talking worst-case scenario are just like those in 1943 who were saying we'd all be speaking German or Japanese before it was over with.....
-- John Howard (Greenville, NC) (email@example.com), October 25, 1998
My Grandmother is 78, and while she does not have a computer, I can atest to how up on Y2K she is. (At last count I had used two reams of paper at 500 pages each printing things out). At the end of each day she calls me up or I walk over (she lives exactly 143 feet from my front door) and we discuss what she got through that day.
Her anaylsis is very similar to the gentleman John referred to. Her thinking is that anyone under the age of 50 has not really had hardship (unless you WENT to Vietnam, she is using the concept of hardship here on homesoil), except for the 70's energy crisis. So people 25 to 50 she lists as having some hardship and anyone under 25 has just not known trouble and she thinks we are somewhat borrowing it here. She feels there will be problems, but she said unless you lived through the great Depression and WWII you just have no concept of hardship. Her feeling is that this has been so blown out porpotion that she does worry about panic runs, but actual trouble from Y2K she questions. So I asked her on a scale of 10 what she envisioned...4, 5 tops.
Now mind you, I told you this is her opinion and I learned a LONG time ago not to argue with her (I am 6'4" and she is 4'11"....I am still scared of her!:) and I envision higher than that.
I find it interesting though that people in that age range, for the most part, no matter how well informed, do not envision what we "younger" folk do.
-- Rick Tansun (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 25, 1998.
My mom is very worried about it, she is of that generation. I know more than a few folks that age who see the worst case as all too likely. Again, we shall see, but it is best to be ready for the bad that may happen, is it not?
"It's too late to fight...It's too late to change me...You may be wrong for all I know...But you may be right"
-- Uncle Deedah (email@example.com), October 25, 1998.
John/Rick, I think its admirable that you have good relationships with an older person. Makes me all warm and fuzzy. However, neither post contributed one shred of actual information. Its another he/she "feels" like its overblown. What exactly does landing on Omaha beach have to do with evaluating the technical merits of a computer problem? (However, I am sure he has some experience of surviving on foot in hostile territory. Ask him about his M1 for YOUR sake.) As for granny, stop overwhelming her with reams of paper. Buy her a kerosene heater, build her an extended pantry and make sure she has extra meds. Being older than 45 actually is a disadvantage in understanding Y2K unless they were employed in the computer industry. Their world view was shaped in the pre-digital years. Even though they use them daily, they simply can't "see" the intelligent machines around them. If you REALLY care about these people, make sure they have preparations in place or you may well be the one to personally dig the hole and put them in.
-- R. D..Herring (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 25, 1998.
Hey R.D.! Watch that "over 45" stuff! Hmgph!
-- Faith Weaver (email@example.com), October 25, 1998.
John, Rick, Deedah, R.D., Faith:
Actually, folks older than 100 might have some advantage in dealing with Y2K because they're the ones among us who personally experienced the 1899-1900 calendar rollover!
(OTOH, a coworker of mine put a Y2K bug into the leap year portion of a date routine because he remembered what his grandparents told him about the 100-year rule, but he didn't know about the 400-year rule.)
-- No Spam Please (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 25, 1998.
I also applaud your reverance for old folks. The generation that suffered through the great depression and fought WWII were indeed a different breed than we are today. Propaganda was so intense at the time that we never knew that we almost lost the war an several occassions. When else in our history would a bereaved mother hang a black bordered star or stars at her front window to proudly show the world that she had lost her sons in battle? In those days a high school education was big stuff. We are not of that generation. I do not think we have the resolve or innocence to ever be like that again and I thank God that this is so. I have always been a defender of our national policy until I learned about things like the Pentagon papers and Sec of defense Macnamara's book wherin he confessed to the corruption of the Viet Nam war and the needless waste of lives. People, old and young will often take an intellectual position and not budge from it. Most people will adopt and defend that time in their lives when they felt the strongest and most secure. Old folks, for the most part, will not change. Notice if you will that they stay frozen in time in their mode of dress, hair styles and way of thinking. I by the way, would sport a flat top with fenders if I had any hair left.
-- Bill Solorzano (email@example.com), October 25, 1998.
I too have mother who has been through and understands the suffering of the Great Depression and WWII. I have a great friend of Japanese heritage that was displaced from his family home and put into an internment camp because of WWII. I had a father who fought against the occupation of the Phillipines and who personally saw members of his own family taken from their homes and beheaded in the streets of Manila. This is a strong generation of people who understand suffering.
My mother has lived through a life of disruptions and suffering. She's been a single parent most of her life and she knows how to stretch a dollar. She'll be 71 in November and she is scared of what is coming up. Not so much for herself but for her children and her grandchildren and her great grandchildren. She's the strongest person I know. My father died when I was 13. He spoke German, Japanese, Tagalog, Spanish, English and some French. As a boy, he worked for the underground resistance in the Phillipines and he did things in his young life to survive and keep his family safe that person of my generation could comprehend. His father, my grandfather, was put in a prison camp in Santa Thomas in Manila for 32 months and for the rest of his life he lived sleeping on a cot with a footlocker at the foot of his bed. So, I have a small understanding of what it might be like to live a life under "disruption".
However, what you fail to show is this direct relationtional difference between "them" and "us". After all, just as they have lived through hardship, they have also seen the creation of wonderous things that didn't exist in their youth. They weren't born into the complacency and they aren't as heavily reliant on the comforts we know. They have lived without many of the things we take for granted. If these wonderous things go away then they have a point of reference as to how life would be without them.
But, that time is long gone. We simply don't live in the same kind of country that existed then. Things have changed.
The majority of people who are fearful of the disruptions are those who can see just how much they depend on the systems that are likely to fail (John, didn't you hear? Koskinen himself just said on Nightline that it's a fact that systems will fail). These are the people that appreciate the interconnected relationship they have within all these systems.
WE (the majority of U.S. citizens born within the U.S.) have no idea what it would be like to live without power, water piped in from somewhere and food that comes from somewhere. We have never lived that way. We've never really been self sufficient. Oh, sure, we make money and we go to the store and we pick up our six pack of soda, a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread, a package of lunchmeat, a bag of chips, a head of lettuce, a package of toilet paper, a bottle of aspirin, and on and on and on. How many of these things are in nice packages? How many of them are manufactured? How much do we depend on others to bring these nice packages to us? How much do we depend on this cycle of manufacturing and delivering? If it stops, the ability to sustain the kinds of population within our country plummets. You know, that carrying capacity. This isn't without precedent. It happens all over the world. It's happening right now, all over the world. Anyone who is arrogant enough to believe it is absolutely impossible that this could happen here simply can't see beyond the nose on their face. But then, that happens a lot with people of any generation. The prospect that most of our population will be able to mentally and physically prepare for disruptions is slipping because time is slipping. Soon, the only possibility will be panic. But, John, you've already said before that you're preparing for disruptions so you wont be one who will panic, right?
One last point. Like I said, I believe it is difficult for many of the older generations to understand how the loss of certain systems would disrupt their lives. AFter all, they've live without much of this before. However, did you ask them what they will do without Medicare or Social Security? What about if there are disruptions in those perscriptions they depend on or what if the nest egg they have in the financial industry becomes nonexistant because panic selling and profit taking? I'm sure that might get them thinking. _________
-- Michael Taylor (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 25, 1998.
take great care when you say "we" have never lived without various things. Some of us have. Some of us have voluntarily lived without power, pressurised water, flush facilities, heatg that did not take work before it became heat, etc. There are a number of Peace Corps folks lurking and or posting here, and some of us, in our "checkered past" (read "misspent youth") spent quite some time in communes living "simply". I for one spent a year+ among friends (both "F" and "f" in community in upstate NY in 1970-71. While we did have power, the heat was wood, the water came from a neighbor, "facilities" were dug with the obligatory Chick Sales Building on top (a 3 holer if anyone cares, 2 with seats), food came from surplus and wholesalers since we were vegies per Friends Testimonies, bread was home baked, usually 5 times a week, meals were communal, etc. I strongly suspect that if you scratch the readership of the forum, you'll find more like me. though I will admit that from some of the posts, there may not be many!
-- Chuck a Night Driver (email@example.com), October 25, 1998.
Did you know that you can cook all your daily meals out of an electric coffee pot? Start the cofee at night, throw in some eggs. Hard boiled eggs and coffee for breakfast. Hard boiled eggs and catch as catch can for lunch. After breakfast throw a few pieces of chicken in the coffee pot with some rice. That's dinner.
Did you know that after sleeping on the floor for some time, you get damned concerned about every wiff of gas from the leaking gas stove?
When you NEED to eat what you catch, do you fish with bait or lures?
Are woodchucks good to eat? Have you ever been hungry enough to try one?
We've been poor, and we've been well off. On the whole, I prefer well off.
If it turns as bad as I expect, there are a lot of things I'm going to miss.
-- art welling (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 25, 1998.
"However, neither post contributed one shred of actual information. Its another he/she "feels" like its overblown."
God forbid we ever discuss feelings. Did I ever try to offer up my post as "actual information"? Nope...I said it was her feelings and I said I disagreed with her.
"As for granny, stop overwhelming her with reams of paper. Buy her a kerosene heater, build her an extended pantry and make sure she has extra meds."
Hey R.D., I just wanted to let you know that you are the first Y2K person who has successfully pissed me off to the point I have had to re-edit this sentance from it's first version. Number one, show some respect. Your tone of "As for granny" was extremly insulting she is my Grandmother, and that is not some place you should trend lightly is with anyones relative. As for the reams of paper, she has requested them from me as she does not have InterNet access. As for preparing her, I would have been happy to tell you all of the preparing we had done if this was a thread about preparing older folks, but it wasn't. It was about feelings.
Since that seems so blasted important to you though, we opted a long time ago not to go with kerosene and invested in an extremly good wood burning stove years ago for her. This sucker burns hot enough that she has a $0 heating bill in the Winters and it is usually a balmy 75 or higher in her house from this sucker. As was discussed in another thread she already has an enermous pantry, we are getting her extra meds and I am working with her to break her 60 year old smoking addicition (I used to smoke two packs a day, but quit cold turkey 6 years ago)as that will lower the body temperature in her extremities and she will also eventually run out. Course you didn't ask if we had done any of this, your "feelings" told you that we hadn't.
"Even though they use them daily, they simply can't "see" the intelligent machines around them."
Oh really? Have you spoken to my Grandmother?
"If you REALLY care about these people, make sure they have preparations in place or you may well be the one to personally dig the hole and put them in. "
How DARE you say such a thing in reference to my Grandmother! Where in the world do you get the courage to insinuate that I do not care about her?!?!?!?!? Which is EXACTLY what you were saying! I can not believe anyone would have the courage to say such an unbelievablly cold and unfeeling thing about someones Grandmother. If I didn't care about her do you think I would be having my daily talks with her? Would I be taking the time to make sure she is up to speed and can make some of her own decesions in regards to this? She is my last living Grandparent and am more concerned about her than anyone in this hole screw-up, but I guess that doesn't matter because you have already judged me.
-- Rick Tansun (email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
Rick, I think that the point that is trying to be made here is that Y2K is a completely different animal, and trying to draw on previous experiences -- especially those of so many years ago -- have very limited applicability. We are dealing with bad computer code, and the fact that we have run out of time to fix it. Period. It may be tempting to think "Gee, this is just like such-and-such back in 19xx-19xx, and if we got through that then, we can surely get through this now", but the reality is: bad computer code does not care.
-- Jack (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 26, 1998.
My apologies. I usually try not to lump myself or anyone else into some stereotypical group. But, I think it might be applicable in this context.
I qualified "WE" as the following "(the majority of U.S. citizens born within the U.S.) have no idea what it would be like to live without power, water piped in from somewhere and food that comes from somewhere. We have never lived that way. We've never really been self sufficient." I should have further qualified it as someone of my generation or there abouts. I'm 35. I can clearly see how some people about my age have lived and depended on the systems. It wont be pretty when they get the wake up call.
I should have been clearer about what "we' I was refering to. My apologies.
-- Michael Taylor (email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
John Howard wrote:
--I asked him what he thought about the subject; he said he thought there were too many people preaching gloom and doom. Said that as far as he's concerned, those who are talking worst-case scenario are just like those in 1943 who were saying we'd all be speaking German or Japanese before it was over with.....
Nuff said. --
Thanks John. It's nice to hear some semblance of sanity in this debate. Certainly there will be problems, some of them major. However, we will get through it. It is only prudent to prepare as best as possible and that is what I am encouraging people to do.
Comments such as "We've run out of time" are simply false and overtly negative. Sure, everything won't be fixed in time. So what. However we still have 14 months to keep working away at the problem. It appears likely that we will need some type of martial law before the whole mess is over and there will be some casualties. However, North America is still a hell of a better place to be than most other places.
There have always been wars, diseases and assorted troubles throughout history. Now we have a potential doozy to deal with. I'm a litte tired at the whole TEOTWAWKI camp. Whatever happened to courage and bravery and optimism?
Sure, it is likely that the banks will have difficulty honoring all requests for withdrawals. Do all the doom and gloomers think that the governments will just stand by and do nothing. No, it may be in the form of limiting the amount that can be withdrawn but be sure that there are plans in the works. I read all this criticism of the fractional reserve banking system and agree it definately has its' drawbacks. However, I have not as yet seen a viable alternative suggested by anyone that would work in today's complex economy.
It would do us all well to remember that the world has experienced far worse times than what we will likely face with Y2K and it is still here. Yes, there will be casualties and that is tragic. Let's not forget though, that everyone that has been born will eventually be a casualty and keep things in perspective. I think it is the fear of death that is freaking out some of the more 10 out of 10'ers and that they need to resolve that issue in order to get any peace.
Here's the real irony: I have been quoted quite extensively by our local media about Y2k, and by most people around here am considered to be quite extreme in my views. Heck, I have a generator and started other preparations too...........
However, reading some of the comments I read here makes me realize that I'm a pussycat compared to many of you.
I really am concerned that some of the regulars here won't even make it to 2000. They will die of heart attacks or depression simply out of fear. People, prepare but for God's sake, some of you need to lighten up a little for your own sakes.
-- Craig (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 26, 1998.
"I think that the point that is trying to be made here is that Y2K is a completely different animal, and trying to draw on previous experiences -- especially those of so many years ago -- have very limited applicability."
How is it different though? The only thing I see different is the mode with which we get to the very similar party. Instead of showing up in a Model T, were're showing up in an Explorer. I kick myself for not remembering the original source of this qoute, but it has always beena favorite of mine "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it". So why should I, John Howard or anyone else not want to learn whatever we can, no matter how different you may think it is, from people whom have lived through similar situations?
"We are dealing with bad computer code, and the fact that we have run out of time to fix it. Period."
Unless it is 12/31/99, and I missed a year of deadlines, I don't agree. It is too late to fix everything, but we have not run out of time.
"It may be tempting to think "Gee, this is just like such-and-such back in 19xx-19xx, and if we got through that then, we can surely get through this now", but the reality is: bad computer code does not care. "
Again, my analogy about getting to the party. Yes we are going to have computer problems, I do not question that in the least. A lot of people think it may only lead to a Depression. Wow...I've never lived through one of those. What in the world will it be like? Oh wait...I guess I could go talk to someone whose lived through one. Yes the set-up is different, but a Depression is a Depression. Doesn't matter if you get there via Model T or an Explorer
-- Rick Tansun (email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
Y2K will potentially be many times more serious than anything we have ever seen, because it effectively will affect everything simultaneously, including electric power, clean water, communications, food supply, etc. Today's world depends on a complex infrastructure that is itself completely dependent on technology (read "computers"). This will fail or become unreliable within 14 months. If it were "just" the banking system, or "just" a depression, etc. -- or even if it would happen in a relatively GRADUAL way -- then some of the optimism expressed here might carry more weight. Let me throw out a statement that I believe is highly accurate to make in late October of 1998: If you don't have at least, today, a year's worth of food stored, then you are not understanding this problem. It has not been fixed, it will not be fixed by when it needs to be, and it probably cannot be fixed within any reasonable timeframe afterwards.
-- Jack (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 26, 1998.
and what seems to be missed is that I am *NOT* as optimistic as my Grandmother, and I flat out said that I wasn't in my original post. I simply was adding to the fact that someone else from that age group was. Somehow thi shas gotten turned into I am some sort of Pollyanna for talking to her.
-- Rick Tansun (email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
For Rick -
"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. THOSE WHO CANNOT REMEMBER THE PAST ARE CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT." -- George Santyana
Ain't the Web grand? Figure I'll have to resort to my well-worn "Bartlett's Familiar Quotations" come 01/01/2000, but for right now, websearching saves some serious time...
-- Mac (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 26, 1998.
Thanks! For the life of me I could not remember it correctly when I went to post it!
-- Rick Tansun (email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
Rick, No offense was intended - Butthead.
Granny is what I called MY grandmother. Actually I don't know anyone who calls their grandmother Grandmother. As for talking to your Grandmother, I would love to do that. Clearly, my statement about "seeing" was a generalization (to which there are always exceptions). It was meant as an explanation for a generalized behavior for a particular class of the population.
The "emotional" tone of your post was (to ME) Y2K must not be a big deal if granny, er Granmother, doesn't think its going to be much of anything. Maybe she reads your "reams" just to make you happy. You obviously are trying to convince her on some level. Your posts reveal your frustration. Your posts have a schizoid character (notice I said posts - not YOU). On the one hand you discuss preparations and then you do your best to minimize the probable outcome. Maybe you CAN'T believe it until your Grandmother blesses it.
I never said you don't care for your grandmother. I was emphasizing that (at least in my view) Y2K may well have lethal consequences and it wouldn't be wise to be lulled into complacency. In general, your posts have a pollyanish quality that may just convince someone to NOT prepare. I view that as dangerous. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and you may freely express it - just as I will.
-- R. D..Herring (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 26, 1998.
It would be well for us all to keep in mind that the cumulative wisdom of our species is vested in our old people and that our future belongs to our children.
-- Hardliner (email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
yes there is some Pollyanna to my tone, but I have stressed time and time again that I am preparing as I view it like car insurane or any of the numerous things I carry in my car "just in case". I do not forsee TEOTWAWKI, I do forsee problems, but certainly not that.
Just as you say my posts may be dangerous as I may cause someone not to prepare, I see doomsayer messages to be just as dangerous. It has not happened yet, but I am fully expecting someone to commit suicide over this (Let me stress as hard as I can...I DO NOT CONDONE SUICIDE! I do not want to see someone do this, and I hope that no one does, but I will not be the least bit suprised if someone does). Something you have to understand about my preperations, I live in a flood plain...a tornando zone...an earthquake zone..a blizzard area and so on. I have had some form of preperation ready for as long as I can remember. Maybe what doesn't sink in for me is that there truly are people out there who live from day to day.
"Maybe she reads your "reams" just to make you happy."
I doubt it, but again is opinions. (I doubt it as she is taking intiative in her own research now)
"On the one hand you discuss preparations and then you do your best to minimize the probable outcome."
I have discussed Depression as my best outcome and that is minimizing?
There are varying degrees to any argument RD, but you SEEM (as in my opinion) to think that anyone not prpearing for TEOTWAWKI is just not in their right mind. (and yes I call my Grandmother Grandmother...so sue me. I feel Granny is a little to familiar for someone elses relative though.)
Rick - And yes, I am schizo
-- Rick Tansun (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 26, 1998.
#1. I want THE definitive definition of the term "Pollyanna" on my desk by 0800 sharp 11-30-1999 or I'm kicking keister and taking names
#2. Y2K, for those who have and have not been paying attention, is not merely a technological issue. There are enormous emotions involved here, just like WW2, or WW1, or the War of Northern Aggression, or the Jerry Springer show, or any other conflict which has engaged the nation's (the world's) attention. There is a very high component here that involves and engages the "can-do" or "cannot-do" attitude; same as any war or challenge that has ever faced humanity. Failure to realize that is simply failure to realize present reality.
D-Day in 1944 didn't involve computer code. But it did involve people committed to overcoming a seemingly overwhelming challenge. And they overcame that challenge. Human nature hasn't changed in 54 years. There are people today who have the knowledge of the code, but I just hope their determination to push through the problem isn't undermined by those who say "it can't be done".
Seems to me that the Y2K pessimists could do themselves, and all of us, a favor, by doing a reread of that children's classic, "The Little Engine That Could".
-- John Howard (Greenville, NC) (email@example.com), October 29, 1998.
"There are enormous emotions involved here, just like WW2, or WW1, or the War of Northern Aggression, or the Jerry Springer show, or any other conflict which has engaged the nation's (the world's) attention. "
RODLMAO...I let you guess to which part
"Human nature hasn't changed in 54 years."
Sadly, I have to disagree to some degree with that. It has changed for the simple reason that we have not had anything to challange us for the past 54 years. Hopefully that won't last all the way through.
"Seems to me that the Y2K pessimists could do themselves, and all of us, a favor, by doing a reread of that children's classic, "The Little Engine That Could".
-- Rick Tansun (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 29, 1998.
Since we're going back into history, let's look at a very recent post by S. Borokowski to the csy2k newsgroup. I can see a lot of the behavior Borokowski noted in our press. I can even see some of it in a few of the posts above. You read it and judge.
November 4, 1938 Zycie Warsawy (Warsaw Life) daily gives us a glimpse of denial heads in action 50 years ago.
On that day its been already 3 months since the British and French intelligence had informed Polish government of Hitlers plans to attack Poland.
The main street press presented anyone urging preparation for military invasion as right wing kibitzers, fear mongers and agent provocateurs. They were denounced as destructive to peace and as enemies of the nation. They were ignored by the general population and considered mentally imbalanced. (By June 1939, most people still held out hope that war will not materialize, but started making physical preparations by storing more food than usual. Germany attacked Poland on September 1, 1939.)
But in November 1938, life was still good and nobody believed in the worst case scenario. Zycie Warsazawy writer Jakub Kaszubski was considered an eccentric for urging the government and citizens to prepare for conflict. (After Chamberlains return from Germany, Kaszubski was openly laughed at.) Even Jewish communities did not believe that Hitler would do what he wrote about in Main Kampf. Most Jewish community leaders urged calm and staying put to support communities.
The few Poles and Jews who chose to move to England or the US were looked at with disdain. One year later it was too late.
-- rocky (email@example.com), October 29, 1998.
That is indeed a very informative and intriguing post, Rocky. Thanks. I see some eerie parallels.
In WW2, Europe was much more at risk, as the war was fought on their soil (as well as in the Pacific). It never was fought on U.S. soil. Though the effect here was serious, it was not as catastrophic as it was in other places.
So will be the case with Y2K, if anything we read can be trusted at all. Pretty much everybody who knows the problem agrees it will be worse in other places than it will be in the U.S. There are many other countries which seem to be in complete denial or ignorance about the problem -- the Middle Eastern diplomat who told the CIA lady "we will spray for the Y2K bug when it appears" comes to mind.
Serious problems will occur globally; perhaps catastrophic in places. They won't be as bad here. That much we pretty well know. I still don't think that 6-month power outages, year-long food shortages, and the like will occur here. But that's just what I think. Who knows. The 6-month power outage and year-long food shortage scenario is just what some others think. Who knows.
What I'm getting tired of, though, is the tendency of the Y2K pessimists to take an all-or-nothing view of the situation. If anyone (such as myself) comes along and says, "Hey, things aren't going to be as bad as you say", then the pessimists say in knee-jerk fashion, "Howard says there will be no problem at all! Pollyanna! Pollyanna!"
I might like to point out that there are 99 numbers between 1 and 100. I'm looking for something between 45 and 60. That doesn't mean zero. Just because some of us don't subscribe to the '100' scenario does not make us Pollyannas, and does not make us idiots who preach "no problem". There have been two or three instances on this forum where I have put forth the opinion that things will not be as bad as some say. The responses from some have been in effect, "Howard says there will be no problem." Where these folks have gotten that idea, I don't know. It certainly isn't from anything I've said; that's not what I think at all. The only logical conclusion I can draw is that some who hold to the worst-case idea can't deal with a 'medium-case' scenario; it's either got to be worst-case or nothing. Well that's bogus.
To be quite honest, it is attitudes such as this on the parts of Y2K pessimists that makes me wonder about the wisdom of their opinions in general. If they can't see anything between a 'total meltdown' and 'no problem at all', how wise are they, anyway? The world we live in has a lot more gray than it does pure black and white. But it seems that some folks just plain don't recognize that, or won't.
-- John Howard (Greenville, NC) (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 30, 1998.
uh...woops...there are actually 98 numbers between 1 and 100...lest anyone take offense at bad mathematics
(splitting hairs and going gray)
-- John Howard (email@example.com), October 30, 1998.
Maybe, for some, there isn't a middle ground between a 'total meltdown' and 'no problem at all', because one would allow for absolute denial which isn't prudent and the other would allow for someone to prepare for a worse case scenario and hope for the first. It's that middle ground that consumed my thoughts and kept me depressed and down for too long. So, I decided to prepare my family for the worse, as best as I can, and hope for the best!
What's your take on this?
-- Michael Taylor (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 30, 1998.
I have chosen to spend a great deal of time talking to people about Y2K in the hopes of providing information they can use for community preparedness. So far I have talked to about 400 people. The older people, those who remember the Depression and WWII, are extremely down to earth about Y2K. The people who say we Boomers or younger don't know what hardship is are right. We don't. We can learn a great deal from these seniors about how they lived through extreme deprivation, and an upheaval in the social, economic and political fabric of their world. We need to listen to them. And we need to teach them what we know about the disruption in the infrastructure of our lives. There are so many credible resources available. People aren't stupid. They're scared. The least frightened I have talked to are the seniors. We need them - and they need us.
-- Sharon Schultz (email@example.com), October 31, 1998.