Take a look at salad dressing that you buy in the store. The face of the bottle looks several times bigger than its side. Why? Now read the ingredients of "low fat" mayonnaise: Water, Corn Syrup, Soybean Oil, ....

-- ignorant (headin@hole.net), October 19, 1998

Answers

Well, of course no one anywhere "deserves" suffering. But I think your point is that a lot of things in our world are silly, duplicitous, and of little intrinsic merit. As I see it, however it all turns out, y2k has certainly given us an opportunity to reexamine the quality of our lives and make new choices, according to our real values rather than those our commercial culture has attempted to impose on us. This, in itself, gives me hope that we'll emerge on the other side of this challenge a strengthened and better people. Sort of the "new and improved" version--and certainly "fat free"!

-- Faith Weaver (faith-weaver@usa.net), October 20, 1998.

The highschool in our little village has a full time "recourse officer." He is a sheriff's deputy in uniform who drives a patrol car. Will this nonesense stop only after we experience the equivelant of the Chinese Cultural Revolution? Or will y2k do it?

-- sucked down (he@d.incommode.com), October 20, 1998.

Faith Weaver, I do enjoy your posts so much! Folks, if you read the literature of every age, there has ALWAYS been evidence of the silliest of silliness, and there have always been people questioning the status quo and the cultural values that have built up over time. People that question, like us, are the force that propel us to new eras. I also have feelings that Y2k or whatever could be a good cleansing agent for a society that needs to turn off the TV and take a good look at itself, but the most powerful insight I ever had was that only I can change the way I live my life, and that by living as an example of what I believe, I do a lot more to change things than all the talking in the world. This may make a lot of people challenge where we got ourselves to - the sad thing is that a lot of people, the same ones who are always the most vulnerable, will very likely suffer the most hardship and no - I don't think they will deserve it, as individuals.

-- Melissa (financed@forbin.com), October 20, 1998.

So Melissa

Nobody answered your Q about non-lethal force, so I shall take this very lame thread off subject and try.

Pepper spray- effective sometimes, less so if the spray-ee is on dope (Not potheads, their eyes cannot stand more drying) check for a LONG stream ahead of time, shoot them way out in front of you, then RUN.

Electro shock thing a ma-jigs, -Spotty performance in LEO experience, Rodney King was hit with more than one, and was still able to be beaten (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more) with his senses intact. Seriously though, if you anticipate a dirty awful nasty happening, these two things rate just above a wet noodle on the torture scale.

An evil doer with force needs to be met with force, history is full of examples of this.

If you do decide to pack, train, lock-up away from kids, USE YOUR HEAD. God gave it (your brain) to you for a reason.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 20, 1998.

The family of a sophmore in the high school in our village owned me some money. When I asked him to pay me, he asked me how much? I played dumb, although this is very difficult since I look so intelligent. I said to him: Well, how much is $7.50 x 10 hours? He couldn't figure it. I said, I think you move the decimal. He still didn't get it. Then he took his calculator and concentrated as hard as Thomas Edison to finally get his answer. This kid is not stupid. He, as well as all others, had too much money thrown at him by the educational system. You can check the histrical graphs, the more money for "education," the lower the scores. Will y2k stop this nonsense?

-- sucked down (he@dincommode.com), October 21, 1998.

What do you expect when men (those with external organs) wear ear rings and women wear shoulder pads and cuss like ...?

-- sucked down (he@dincommode.com), October 22, 1998.

Hey sucked

Whats wrong with an earring on a guy? I've got one (in my LEFT ear, thank you)a simple, small gold hoop. Do not be deceived by appearences, book by the cover, what's inside that counts, etc. Some folks razz me aboat (Canadian pronunciation) it, but not those who KNOW me. Remember pirates? Weren't they manly enough for you?

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 22, 1998.

Uncle Deedah, you just revived a funny memory! I shook up the Pastor of my church YEARS ago when he was talking against men with earrings. I just pulled open my Bible and showed him Exodus 32:2, "And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me." The look on his face was priceless. Guess he forgot about that scripture. He never mentioned it again.

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), October 22, 1998.

Gayla

Good thing I don't have a tattoo!

Lev. 19-28

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 22, 1998.

In his "Tragedy of the Commons" Garrett Hardin quotes Alfred Whitehead:

We may well call it 'the tragedy of the commons,' using the word 'tragedy' as the philosopher Whitehead used it:

"The essence of dramatic tragedy is not unhappiness. It resides in the solemnity of the remorseless working of things."

Let's just say, we're looking at unintended consequences of communal acts. Quite analogous to Hardin's analysis of "The Tragedy of the Commons." Full text available at here

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), October 23, 1998.

Ah, yes, dieoff.org.

The preferred website for connoisseurs of headshots of dead people.

Forget Y2k--we're all dead anyway.

-- BellaVita (red@tablewine.com), October 23, 1998.

BellaVita writes----"we're all dead anyway."

We know that. Who lives forever? Here we're just haggling about when, and the terms and conditions thereof. I figure most of us would pprefer to keep on keeping on for several years yet. That's what we're talking about here.

Dieoff.org takes a dim view of virtually everything. Not necessarily a bad move. It takes a ball bat upside the head just to get some mules to listen to you. But this pessimism is pretty unproductive as a mode of life. (Neat shot of the bar stools on that page though.)

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), October 23, 1998.

Let's try two tag closes...

Caramba! (making real cute Bart Simpson face.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), October 23, 1998.

I couldn't resist responding to this thread when I read "Requiem", by Jay Hanson on dieoff.org. "Requiem" is a philosophical essay on the natural disintegration and hopelessness of society, and Jay has done a masterful job in describing man's inability to survive apart from the sustaining power of his creator, Almighty YHWH.

Of course, Jay doesn't see it like I do, because his eyes are blinded to the truth of God. He sees man as a product of his environment... of cause and effect, and therefore there is no logical reason for him to survive and flourish. But, God placed man upon this earth to fulfill His own divine purposes, and set in motion certain principles which are designed to bring sinful man back into a right relationship with Himself. For those who submit to His Lordship there is eternal reward, and for those who don't, there is eternal punisment.

I firmly believe that y2k is a part of God's plan to perfect those who have bowed to His authority. This may include suffering which is a vital part of divine purpose which can only be fulfilled by man's obedience to the will of God. Suffering is growth stimuli that's been promised to those who love God: "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His sake" (Phil. 1:29).

"For God has not given us the spirit of fear, but (rather) of power, and of love, and of a sound mind" (2 Tim. 1:7). The sound mind spoken of here is not necessarily a prefect brain, but rather the mind of Christ, and I believe it is given to believers to be used to discern between good and evil. Therefore, y2k is not to be feared by those who walk in union with Christ. It's just one more opportunity to minister confidently to the needs around us, and to demonstrate to the godless world that Jesus Christ is the only hope of mankind.

Respectfully,

Arcy

-- Arcy Williams (arcy.w@usa.net), October 24, 1998.

Yikes! Sorry I messed up the closing tag back there.

Once that happens, how can it be fixed?

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), October 24, 1998.

Yo, no problem Tom.....after I submit a post I go back and check out IF it posted and how it came out...sometimes finding embarassing typos...if you left a tag open, post again...close the Tag with left arrow-foreward slash-tag letter-right arrow...then type a little something and submit it...if you were successful in closing the tag you will get plain font no bold, italics or blockquote formatting.

...Tom,I apologize for nitpickiness...Funny, from time to time I read posts in this place and others thinking "wow, this person (or that person)has way too much time on his/her hands"...AND this morning reading my plea for closed tags I realized "I" was one of the somebodies with some times WAY too much time. Ain't insight grand? LOL.... Gotta stop taking me so seriously. I know this but forget from time to time. Y2K drain bamage!! ROFLMAO

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), October 24, 1998.

What the HECK RU all talking about?

sign me, dumb

-- what? (no@aol.com), October 25, 1998.