SOMETHING YOU 98'ERS SHOULD READ...greenspun.com : LUSENET : 1998 Guam Elections : One Thread
You 98'ers are failing to realize the big picture. All you do is run around trying to find someone to attack, in this case, former Gov. Joseph Flores Ada, the same man the people of Guam elected to lead us back in 1986 and again in 1990. Ask yourselves one question, in the midst of seeing the corruption going on with Carl T.C. Gutierrez, the scandals, and not to mention the mishandling of the duties of Governor along with the mishandling of govt. funds, WHY DO YOU STILL SUPPORT CARL. Joe ADA did not cause loadshedding. Joe ADA could not control immigration, the FEDS did. Joe ADA did not control the population boom, it came with the economic boom. Joe ADA did not control all the infrastructure(buildings) that were built, which required more resources, such as power, again they came with the economic boom. Do you all remember the Pacific Star Hotel, when it was completed back in 1986, during the ADA administration, THE FIRST 5 STAR HOTEL ON GUAM! Soon after came the HILTON, HYATT, and so forth. Joe ADA went to Korea personally, and soon after 2 Korean Airliners and more tourists came to Guam. Ask yourselves (98'ers) something, did Joe ADA control those influx of visitors and their demands on the infrastructure. Did Joe ADA control the legislature, of which was very uncooperative in getting things done during the ADA administration. ONLY THE LEGISLATURE HAS THE POWER TO APPROPRIATE MONEY, NOT THE GOVERNOR. We had 21 senators, of which Carl T.C. Gutierrez happened to be the Chairman of Ways and Means, yet he passed a SUPER EXENSIVE legislative budget, costing tax-payers millions of dollars, yet you 98'ers seem to overlook that. Yet, while these people were "STILL HAVING FUN", GPA did not get the needed money, to upgrade it's facilities. During the ADA administration, we were hit by more than 5 major typhoons, 1 major earthquake, an economic recession in Japan. 1 typhoon, named SUPERTYPHOON OMAR, took a number out of our infrastructure, mainly power. Then the next year in 1993, the earthquake sure shook us up. Why don't you 98'ers look up the public records for yourselves and see the real truth. Why do you 98'ers use selective memories, and block out every single BAD THING ABOUT CARL, the same way CARL USES SELECTIVE PROSECUTION TO PROTECT HIS INTERESTS. Do you realize that GovGuam lost nearly $20 million dollars per year from the Department of Defense because Carl wouldn't work with the elected school board(the same one CARL was so proud of in the 94 elections, claiming he and Madeline introduced that bill), causing the FEDS to build their own schools here to educate the military students, instead of reimbursing GovGuam $5,000+ dollars per military student. Do you 98'ers realize that YES, Tommy Gutierrez(the son of Carl) does in fact use drugs, I know because I used to work at GPD, and have close personal friends with the Gutierrez kids, who even used to do ICE with Hannah and Carla Gutierrez. Do you 98'ers realize that Carl is running the govt. unfairly, giving contracts to a select few businesses/individuals, instead of doing a sealed bid, JJ Moving, Bob's Nursery, GMP, to name a few. Do you 98'ers realize that Carl hired all his relatives and close friends for big salaried jobs, yet many of them don't deserve it and are doing nothing. Take Evelyn Gutierrez Ybarra, all she does is sit down and do nothing, yet makes $65,000 a year. Do you 98'ers realize that CARL T.C. GUTIERREZ DID IN FACT ADMIT THAT HE DID HAVE SEX WITH HIS UNDERAGE NIECE, COMMITTING NOT ONLY INCEST BUT STATUTORY RAPE. Do you 98'ers realize that your UNCLE CARL has given out millions in free power/utilities connections, yet IS SPENDING YOUR HARD-EARNED TAX DOLLARS TO CONTINUE DOING THAT AND WILL NOT GIVE OUT THE LIST OF PEOPLE WHO RECEIVED IT TO THE PUBLIC. Carl claims Joe ADA was not fiscally responsible, yet CARL HIMSELF WAS THE CHAIR OF THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE DURING THE ADA ADMINISTRATION. So why the hell do you people still support CARL and his corrupt ways. You know that saying Carl always brings up during election time, "NEVER FORGET WHERE YOU COME FROM." I think Carl has forgotten a long time ago, he's now a multi-millionaire living the good life and enjoying the POWER AS GOVERNOR, yet he screws over the hard-working individuals of Guam who deserve and honest governor who is fair and impartial, and one who doesn't hold predjudice, and runs the government in the best interests of EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN OF GUAM, and not only in the INTEREST OF HIMSELF...
-- Frank Cruz (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 16, 1998
Frank makes some very good points here. Do you 98ers have any good responses that will address the issues? You haven't had any in my "challenge to Karl supporters". I'm guessing you won't here either.
Frank's info brings new light to Karl's klaim of ending loadshedding and Karl's charges that it was all Joe Ada's fault. Now that those charges have been answered, will Karl answer the charges against him? Let us all watch and see.
-- Lighthouse Keeper (email@example.com), October 16, 1998.
Carl says he is not GIVING the line extensions (power poles) away for free (that would violate the bond agreements) but the general fund is paying for them. Why, then hasn't the general fund made a SINGLE PAYMENT for those poles? Why, then did the governor hit up GPA for 2 million dollars to recover from Paka? It's like a shell game. You've got to keep your eye on the bean (money).
-- Truthkeeper (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 16, 1998.
Boo Hoo, Frank Cruz. Stop licking your wounds and listen good. You say JOE ADA couldn't control development and immigration and that's why we developed loadshedding -- you're partially right, he could have PLANNED for the changes, but HE DIDN'T. He just sat back, ate snails, and let our island go to the birds. Now, in the face of military downsizing, KAL, supertyphoon paka and the Asian Economic Crisis ,Guam is doing fine.. you know why ?? Because Carl Gutierrez is a smart Governor who knows how to run a government, who knows how to look ahead and plan, and who knows how to work with the private sector, something JOE ADA didn't do in 8 long years.
You say the legislature controls appropriations, you're right again. BUT read the organic act, it doesn't matter what the legislature appropriates, it is up to the GOVERNOR to control spending. TODAY, the 24th Guam Legislature has appropriated more than $20 million dollars more than we have, but is the governor blindly spending... NO. That's because Carl Gutierrez is an effective manager. Joe went out passing out money, $5440, $1000 rebates, borrowing $850 million that our children and grandchildren are going to have to pay off, and then didn't have enough money to give us realiable power or pay for our tax rebates. BAD PLANNING, frank. And that was during the good times. Imagine Joe Ada now... our poor island would never survive.
Then you say joe had Omar and an earthquake. Boo Hoo again. Carl had PAKA which was a much worse storm, but again, simply compare. I was without power for 2 months and 3 weeks after Omar, how about you ??? After Paka, I got my power back in 21 days. Real leadership that made my life better. And then look how quickly our island recovered, concerted effort, good managment and PLANNING, frank, PLANNING. Then, remember the earthquake that ADA had, frank... Joe Ada decided we could handle the impact and didn't pursue federal funding. Why not ??? It certainly wouldn't have hurt ??! Maybe because he couldn't even handle the close-out for OMAR funds which were left in shambles in 1995 when Carl came in and had to clean up the lost records. We could have recovered a lot quicker, but JOE ADA had the brilliant idea that he would rather shun federal money, and look at how much we lost. For what, because he doesn't get along with the feds. TSK, TSK.
Then you whine about losing $20 million in DOD money. Why don't you listen to the teachers. The $20 million was a pittance, when you compare it against the additional costs of more teachers, more supplies, and the crush of overcrowding as we attempted to accomodate the DOD kids. When they took them out, all of a sudden, we have enough space to provide a better learning environment for OUR kids, and more money for supplies. And don't talk about Carl not giving kids books, because we all know that the Board of Education is in charge of that puppy, and besides, it wasn't like there were books during Ada's time either.
As for your libelous lies about the governor's children doing ice, you will eventually spend time in jail for making those statments. The internet is not as anonymous as you think.. the FBI has the address and existing law holds that defamation is defamation. Your desperate attempt to win by lying about some really nice kids is rather pathetic, and it won't wash with the voters. Angel and Mark are already in the throes of defamation suits, and no matter how they wiggle through the mud claiming senatorial immunity, they won't get away.
As for the rape, that was libel too. Those lies were launched in 1994, the voters didn't believe them, and did the right thing voting for Carl Gutierrez. They will vote for him again despite the lies being brought up this time. And if you don't believe it was a lie, then why oh why did Chris Torres hold a big gathering for Carl Gutierrez last week ?? huh !
Finally, you know why Felix Camacho is dying for a list of the hundreds of people who have been helped with power lines??? Because this is a small island, and of the hundreds of people helped, hundreds of poor people, of republicans, of hita supporters, of tom and lou people...... there will invariably be a few '98 supporters or distant relatives of the governor. Felix will seize on those few names and use his own SPIN to try and make the governor look bad. Now why would '98 want to play his pathetic little game???
I know none of this will have an effect on your vote, but I hope that the other people reading this forum will come away a little more informed.
As for the debate, it was sad that after Joe's performance, the only two chants were ABC, and 4 more years. I didn't hear anyone jumping up and down for Joe. This election comes down to a simple vote.. those who like carl gutierrez and those who are jealous of carl gutierrez. And hopefully, the wise and just people of this island will once again light up the island with sunshine and overwhelmingly vote for Carl and Madeleine.
-- Spotlight (email@example.com), October 17, 1998.
Don't try to scare us spotlight, your claim that the internet is not as anonymous as we think is a lie. If you understand how this board works, you'll know that what you said is a bunch of bull, bet you only play with Windoze95, or even worse Windud98. Again, the debate, get real, the 98 boys stuffed 80% of the seating with their goons. They were pretty obnoxious with the signs, guess the brash rudeness fits the candidate. johnny bravo cruze
-- johnny bravo cruze (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 17, 1998.
Just because ADA wasn't focused doesn't mean that it has a total bearing on being governor. You 98'ers seem to have a show-off and a "think you know it all" type of attitude. You people again are so materialistic when it comes to this whole election. Oh, I want to look good, that's why I'm voting for Carl is pure bullshit. Look around you, you know that Carl's corrupt, yet you're still voting for him. Is this the same crowd, who is against corruption, the same kind that screwed the Philippines over. Carl T.C. Gutierrez as the Chairman of Ways and Means already screwed Guam over millions of dollars, in addition to creating a deficit that even up to decades from now, the children of Guam will be paying for. And you 98'ers, don't give me this bull that it was Joe ADA again for the deficit, ONLY THE LEGISLATURE CAN APPROPRIATE MONEY. In addition, the same influential legislatures, the 21st/22nd of which terms occured during the ADA administration, was spearheaded with the financial irresponsibility of the man who approved their super-expensive budgets, Carl T.C. Gutierrez. YOU 98'ERS HAVE YOUR HEAD SO FAR UP CARL T.C. GUTIERREZ THAT I MYSELF ALONG WITH THE OTHER PEOPLE ON GUAM WHO HAVE THEIR HEAD STRAIGHT CAN'T TELL WHERE YOU BEGIN AND HE ENDS.
-- Frank Cruz (email@example.com), October 17, 1998.
Again you BIG MOUTHS think that your small talk solves the whole equation, think again. You guys provided the silliest of answers to my question, it proves the level of 98 intelligence is full of it. As for the person claiming that I am making libel and slander against the governor, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT TOMMY DOESN'T DO DRUGS. I have come into contact with more than 20 people of whom, I know them personally and they put themselves on the line for giving me that information. A high-ranking person in the fire department, several police officers, several people in their early 20's, in addition to a former member of the police force and narcotics division. Not only that, Gutierrez can't even have his children along with himself tested for drugs in the blood and hair, because he's guilty. Take the truth whatever way you want to, whether you believe it or not, the fact of the matter is, TOMMY IS A DEALER. Ask your leader Gutierrez to have his kids tested with private funds by a private testing group, that is overseen by a 3rd party not associated with Carl or his Cronies. I WILL GUARANTEE THAT YOU'RE PO-BOY OF A GOVERNOR WILL COME OUT WITH A MORE THAN TARNISHED IMAGE...
-- Frank Cruz (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 17, 1998.
Perhaps some people have big mouths, but for sure you have a fility and dirty mouth. Must be the mugleg way.
-- (Mouth@kuentos.com), October 17, 1998.
I'm not a Joe Ada supporter, I'm an ABCer, because I can't stand the korruption. I feel no need to defend Joe. But nevertheless, I can't resist pointing out the usual errors in Spotlight's thinking. If I may:
* Spotlight says: "Now, in the face of military downsizing, KAL, supertyphoon paka and the Asian Economic Crisis ,Guam is doing fine."
This is false, in a major way. Guam is not doing fine. Major companies are laying people off. Unemployment has skyrocketed. Crime has skyrocketed. Drug use is rampant. Education is as bad as ever and textbooks are lacking. Corruption is everywhere.
If you mean GovGuam is financially fine, this is way off. GovGuam is taking is way less revenues than expected, and Karl is spending his booty off. He is hiring thousands of people (and no, not just police, fire and nurses like Karl lied about at the debate -- I see lots of new, unqualified people being hired in agencies all around me just to buy votes). He is paving roads like crazy, giving out free power hookups like mad, campaigning on government money relentlessly. Tax rebates were way late, and he had to transfer lotsa money just to get those out. Speaking of transferring, he's taking money from key departments like GPD to avoid payless paydays at DPW -- which coincidentally has has SO MUCH money it could pave roads and do other political favors all year long, not to mention hiring.
So no, neither Guam nor GovGuam are in good shape, and it's not because of disasters -- it's because Karl is spending like mad despite not having any money. Check the deficit numbers now. He won't release them?
* Spotlight states: "TODAY, the 24th Guam Legislature has appropriated more than $20 million dollars more than we have, but is the governor blindly spending... NO. That's because Carl Gutierrez is an effective manager."
I've already proven this way wrong. Karl is blindly spending.
* Spotlight states: "Joe went out passing out money, $5440, $1000 rebates, borrowing $850 million that our children and grandchildren are going to have to pay off."
So Karl was the main sponsor of these appropriation bills, and he is going to blame Joe for this? Yes, Joe did all of the above, and if you think the actions are bad, he deserves part of the blame. But so does Karl. He can't write the 5440 bill and say it's all Joe's fault. The ways and means chairman, if he is doing an honest job, should be aware of revenues and should not appropriate more than the government can afford. Joe should also not spend what the government doesn't have. But Karl is doing that now, and does anybody point that out?
* Spotlight states: "Then you whine about losing $20 million in DOD money. Why don't you listen to the teachers. The $20 million was a pittance, when you compare it against the additional costs of more teachers, more supplies, and the crush of overcrowding as we attempted to accomodate the DOD kids. When they took them out, all of a sudden, we have enough space to provide a better learning environment for OUR kids, and more money for supplies."
This is a load of something. So we lost $20 million -- but have we fired any teachers because of it? Because of Karl we have $20 million less to pay for the same number of employees.
And more money for supplies? Show me one teacher who says she is getting any more supplies now that DOD pulled out its $20 million. Teachers are getting LESS supplies now, not more.
* Spotlight said: "And don't talk about Carl not giving kids books, because we all know that the Board of Education is in charge of that puppy.
The Legislature appropriated money for books. Karl is not releasing that money to DOE. How is that the board of ed's fault? Karl is passing the buck again. Where did he say the buck stopped? In his pockets?
* Spotlight states: "As for your libelous lies about the governor's children doing ice, you will eventually spend time in jail for making those statments."
There is a witness who has already sworn on the record that she saw Tommy and Roy doing ice. Frank is right that anyone who knows GPD officers knows that those charges are true. Anyone who knows Tommy and Roy knows that the charges are true. I personally know people who have done drugs with Tommy and Roy. I would swear to this in court, and so would many others. Statements are not libellous if they are true.
* Spotlight says: "As for the rape, that was libel too. Those lies were launched in 1994, the voters didn't believe them, and did the right thing voting for Carl Gutierrez. And if you don't believe it was a lie, then why oh why did Chris Torres hold a big gathering for Carl Gutierrez last week ?? huh ! "
Again, not libelous if it's true. Check the ethics complaint documents at the legislature. Karl admitted to having sex with Missy (he said it was consensual). He was married. She was underage -- thus, the statutory rape allegation was true.
And your statements about the voters ... again, Spotlight, you don't seem to realize that voters electing someone doesn't prove anyone innocent. All it proves it that Karl has manipulated people enough to fool them into voting for him.
As for your Chris Torres statement ... this does not prove Karl's innocence, especially since he already admitted to it! A relative of Geri's who has been given a nice govt job by Karl and has already stated he's supporting Karl -- that does not prove innocence in any way.
* Spotlight says that Karl won't tell us who he gave free power hookups to because: "Felix will seize on those few names and use his own SPIN to try and make the governor look bad. Now why would '98 want to play his pathetic little game???"
If Karl has nothing to hide, he wouldn't hide the list of power hookups. If Karl has done nothing wrong, he wouldn't worry about how Felix would spin things, because Karl would have the truth on his side and could easily refute Felix's misleading statements. Unfortunately, Karl does have many things to hide, so he witholds information from the public.
* Spotlight sez: "This election comes down to a simple vote.. those who like carl gutierrez and those who are jealous of carl gutierrez."
No. The election is split between those who are against the korruption in Karl's administration, and those who would rather look the other way because of jobs, paved driveways, free power hookups, govt contracts and other freebies on taxpayer money that Karl has given them. Which category do you fall under, Spotlight?
To conclude: Spotlight's statements are all either misleading or highly inaccurate. It's nothing new. But to all those reading who might be swayed -- don't believe these kind of arguments until you have all the facts.
-- Lighthouse (email@example.com), October 17, 1998.
Spotlight is right and you can go with the mualeg way.
-- (Right@kuentos.com), October 17, 1998.
Lighthouse, if you think you are being objective here when asking for "facts" from people to prove their statements, your are wWRONG. It seems that you only threaten to omit those statements against Joe Ada, and the vicious lies about the Governor and his family remain on the forum until this very day.
Take for example you removed the statement that the ADA administration made the Bank of Guam rich by giving them over a BILLION Dollars in bond money, while other banks offered a better deal to the people of Guam, from the forum. Tony Leon Guerrero from the Bank of Guam is WORRIED about the way he involves the Bank of Guam in an outright attempt to influence this upcoming election.
Then, why won't you ask for proof regarding the allegations about the Gutierrez administration, and his family. This election will be over, and I pray that you will able to look that "man" (or whatever sex you are) in the mirror every single morning when you wash that filty mouth of yours.
I also think that you, as well as Frank Cruz, should go to church and just meditate (if you have trouble praying). I don't know who you are, but I pray for people like you, who work hard to divide this community. Be a part of the solution and not part of the problem.
Also, I am not a "cyber banker", so don't dismiss my statements as someone from the '98 team. I am speaking out because your lies does no good for our island community.
-- Speaking OUT (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 18, 1998.
Dear Speak Out,
Thank you for your concern about my spiritual well being, but don't worry about it. I am doing great.
As for your questions about my policy regarding evidence of potentially libelous statements, I have followed the policy as best I can. All the potentially libelous statments against Karl that I haven't deleted are backed up with witnesses and documents.
If you have any specific allegations against Karl that don't have evidence, please point them out. I've said in the past and I'm saying now that if anyone points out a specific statement, I will apply the same standard to it.
You have posted the same potentially libelous statement against Ada and Tony L.G. without citing any evidence. I've already warned everyone about this, so if I don't see any evidence cited within a day, I am going to delete all references to this allegation until there is evidence cited.
-- Lighthouse (email@example.com), October 18, 1998.