Just musing outloud amoung the few of us. SHHH.... now listen. It is just possible that this coming New Year could be a bit exciting. It hasn't been discussed much, but ... The one hard electric utility plant failure (testing) that is public knowledge was the Swedish nuke incident in August http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,25392,00.html?pfv

That was a problem which was from a rollover to 1999 NOT 2000! Remember that the use of "99" was often a special flag for programs (like end of data). Now just imagine.. This January, 10 nuclear plants go down hard and say 20 or 30 conventional plants. At the same time, a couple of the Baby Bell's have severe problems. Lets say one grid crashes, but everything is back to normal in 7 days after a few million people have been in the dark for just one week. Tell me what you see as the likely public/govt response.

-- R. D..Herring (drherr@erols.com), October 13, 1998

Answers

r.d. (whispering)

I think you're right!<--heightened whisper

I remember the sweedish nuke. they said that because of that failed test the would plan a shutdown of all their nukes at the rollover...

but... it was a 99 problem!

wow... our time is even shorter than the short time we thought we had.

I think the whitehouse/fed gov knows, and they're preparing as fast as they can. I think they're (whitehouse) getting ready to play the trump cared big time... and that's why there will not be elections in 2000 (suspended), and that's why there is a power struggle right now between the parties.

more to this than meets the eye : ) ____________________________________________________________

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), October 13, 1998.

r.d. sshhh...

i'm sitting here...working...and I have cnbc on...the news with brian williams. they're doing a story on south carolina this past september. "'operation: urban warrior', training for the war of the future'. they're showing a platoon of armored marines going into an office building. they're cream of the crop marines, battle tested. it was a surprise infiltration exercise. no one knew about it or that it was going to happen. it went just as 'they' had planned. oh, and then there is the excercise in Chicago. they actually show civilian resistance. who is 'they' and why are they doing this in our wonderful, peaceful u.s.?

sshhh...i have my theories...have you ever heard of 'cyberterrorism'? it's gonna be big soon. real, real big news story. not y2k, mind you. no...'cyberterrorism'. it's a threat to our way of life. they'll tell us that much. you know...disinformation. "the threat is coming up, we think it's gonna be in the urban environment." funny, I know they have facilities for just this kind of training. "but the marines say it's the battlefield of the future".

maybe 'cyberterrorists' will take down a couple o' nukes and some power stations on 01/01/99. you know...pesky hackers. they wont stop there, they'll go after communications too. they've already shut down a couple airports, right? pesky little no good hackers. they're out there. they live in the systems you know...just waiting for the right time to strike! _______________________________________________

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), October 13, 1998.

Funny you should mention the drills - last spring we had the FBI out here at the Corp doing mock attacks and terrorist drills on some of our large boats. Was kept pretty quiet (papers mentioned it but very low key) until some kids swiped a van left outside a diner and took off with a bunch of grenade launchers and (real) assualt rifles with a ton of ammo. That got into the news in a big way. Was pretty funny but I felt sorry for the agent that forgot to lock up the van.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), October 14, 1998.

"Don't you see, Scully?" said Mulder excitedly "It's that Art Bell thing. He's somehow tied to the alien autopsy tape and now the secret FEMA government wants to silence him. The alien cyberterrorists planned to shut the power off deliberately a year early just to balance the utility budget and Art found out. He was going to tell the nation but then the Men In Electric paid him a visit. So he had to quit. It's all clear to me now. Don't you see? Howard Stern is the key to all this, Scully. 30 years ago he convinced the programmers to plant this computer bug in computers all over the world. Last year he convinced the CIA to plant Monica in the White House. Now he's prepared to spring the trap. It's all a coverup. A distraction. A plot planned and executed at the highest levels of a governement within a government. They created the Internet to hide what they were really doing. Alan Greenspan is one of them, Scully. I'm sure of it now..."

Scully looked at him sadly and said "Calm down, Mulder".

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), October 14, 1998.

Arnie,

ROFLMAO! I just watched the X-Files movie again tonight so I could catch the one obnocious scene about Mulder's sister (it couldn't have been left in the blasted theatrical release?) and during the FEMA part I just kept giggling for some reason.

Rick

-- Rick Tansun (ricktansun@hotmail.com), October 14, 1998.

If the problems with the '99' roll over are not very severe, I worry that those who are lulling the public will use it as an example of how little need there is to worry. 'See, all these y2k fear mongers said that the 99 could cause problems, and they were wrong. They're wrong about 00 too. Don't worry, be happy.' I still plan for TEOTWAWKI and hope I'm wrong!

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), October 14, 1998.

Arnie,

In the back of my mind I always new Stern was behind this... right there... in the back of my mind... hey...wait... I feel some...thing... right... wow... wait... ouch... whoa... gasp... it's a chip... it's a little embedded chip!!! who am I? where are we? uh... what IS a y2k? _________________________________________________________________

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), October 14, 1998.

No, there is no "secret government." Iran-Contra was a corporate merger. Ollie North wasn't an architect of the post-Carter FEMA, he's the mascot of a hamburger franchise. And FEMA doesn't have a black budget; it makes it's money by selling cookies door-to-door. World dominance is no longer an attractive object for powerful people, and totalitarianism could never happen in America. Ever, ever, ever. Facism isn't a troubling dark manifestation of basic human nature, it's a "demon" that WE banished forever by winning WWII. In fact there are no "powerful people." And no one "conspires" against anyone (ha-ha-ha "conspiracy"! What a laugh!) We're all on the same team. One big, happy, New World -uh- family. So just go back to sleep little chuckleheads, and leave the t.v. on...

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), October 14, 1998.

Okay fellahs. You like to laugh at "conspiracy theories." Well maybe this will amuse you: The following quotes are from Bill Clinton-mentor Professor Carrol Quigley, author of "Tragedy and Hope." He admitted openly that the establishment of Central Banks would be a key to conspiracy control of the economies of the world's peoples. He said: "the system is to be controlled by a feudalistic system of Central Banks of the world acting in concert ... and by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences." Even more revealing is Quigley's description of the conspiracy's aims and financial controls: .... "nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands - - able to dominate the political system of each country.... and the economy of the world as a whole."same book, again: "The individual's freedom and choice will be controlled within very narrow alternatives - - by the fact that he will be numbered from birth....and followed as a number through his educational training - - his required military or other public service - his tax contributions - - his healthand medical requirements - - and his final retirement and death benefits".... Quigley explains his knowledge of, and attitude toward this scheme: ... "I know the operations of this network because I have studied it for 20 years ... and was permitted for two years in the early 1960's to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to many of its instruments" ...

Got that? When you stop laughing, check out this quote from Clinton's inaugural address. Clinton discussed John F. Kennedy's acceptance speech, and mentioned that he had "heard Kennedy's summons to patriotism."... Clinton went on to say, "As a student, I heard that call by John F. Kennedy clarified by Professor Carroll Quigley"

The tripartate globalism described in Quigley's book has since come to pass. Barry Goldwater has recognized this undermining of U.S. sovereignty to advance internationalist goals, and wrote about it in his memoirs. Soon there will be no U.S. constitution; it will be superceded by unconstitutional global treaties like GATT and MAI. And this country will be just another colony for the bankers, there will be no third world - it will ALL be third world except for their gated communities - and you will be every bit a slave as are current residents of Burma, or Peru: up to your ass in survelliance and secret police death squads. THATs how the same bankers that run those countries are planning your future, here, now. Not according to the goddamned "X-files", but according to their academic and trade magazines.

Now did I mention pod people? Did I mention UFOs? Subcutaneous transpoonders (chips in people) ARE USED BY THE MILITARY, ON PEOPLE. Their use is routine in pets, and has been suggested for preschool children. It's no secret. Now compare that to what Quigley wrote, about tracking people from cradle to grave. Are you clueless, or a slave at heart? I don't see any alternate explaination for hilarity on this topic, under these circumstances.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), October 14, 1998.

E: Lest you think my chuckles are a total dismissal of all conspiracies, let me state for record that conspiracies most certainly exist. The exist in government. They exist in the corporate board room. They exist in smokey back rooms. They exist in cab franchises (ever try working as a cabbie at a major airport as an 'independent'?). They exist in the construction industry. The exist in our court rooms and in our sanitation services. They exist in small towns and in large ones. They exist in churches and social groups. They exist in legal offices and in patent offices. They exist in hate groups and in political parties. They are everywhere and, as far as I can see, they always been. They have existed since human time began. They simultaneously threaten and stablize. They destroy and they create. They are sometimes legal and often times not. They are created for both moral and immoral reasons. They are frequently misguided and often misjudged. They can have good intent and yet take bad action. They can be seen in the dark or they can hide in the light. They are uniquely human and they are as 'everywhere' as Y2K itself. This will not change. This is who we are.

Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), October 14, 1998.

E,

I am sure there have been, still are, and always will be conspiracies. How much they really affect the world as a whole is speculation. But there is one thing I definitely agree with you on. I believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and if anyone were to try to abolish them I would fight to the death.

-- Buddy Y. (DC) (buddy@bellatlantic.net), October 14, 1998.

Arnie, first, I appreciate your serious reply to my crumudgeonly party-pooping. You have a nice philosophical approach going there. I would only say that history is not predestined, only forshadowed. You sum it up by saying "it's who we are," sort of like "bankers will be bankers - what can you do?" but I can't resign myself to that. It's not "who we are," it's who they are. I'm not willing to betray my humanity for a temporary illusion of power or wealth (which dynamic is really driving this horror).

Buddy: I've tried it both ways, and, crazy as it sounds it really is better to die on your feet than live on your knees. Just don't let any government amputate your legs incrementally and then tell you that, technically, you're not really kneeling...

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), October 14, 1998.

I absolutely believe there is a secret group of power/money players and they do have an agenda of conspiracy. Many were just "outed" when LTCM got bailed out by the fed. Their pants are down.

There is an agenda out there that we are simply not privy to, and right now, they're scared. _________________________________________________________________

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), October 14, 1998.

They're not scared by our little mob of torches and pitchforks. They have other things to be scared of.

Sometimes I think they're so charmed they can wear their pants around their ankles all day with impunity, merely setting a new fashion - such is the trance we labor under. Other times I think the world is a coil of rope, given them to hang themselves with.

It won't be rebellion that gets them in the end, but indigestion.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), October 14, 1998.

My point is that we've all been dealing with the consequences of conspiracies since our births. No, I don't believe in fate or I sure wouldn't be participating here.

Do I believe that there are conspiracies within many governments and corporations to keep quiet about Y2K issues? Yes. Do I believe there are people in the DoD who understand the potential threat Y2K poses and, as a result, keep quiet for the specific purpose of not giving some twisted group a weapon to use against us? Certainly. Do I believe there are people in the world who lust for power and would stop at nothing to obtain it? Yep, I could even name a few.

Did Y2K start as a conspiracy? Nope. Has it become a massive conspiracy of deliberate silence? Maybe in a 'de facto' sense but certainly not as a result of highly coordinated planning by thousands of people. They are just frightened.

But frightened people often do stupid things which can make the problems worse for the rest of us. This is one reason that I've called for and support '3rd party verification' of utilities. If there is a conspiracy of silence that threatens our lives, we collectively need to address it.

I don't think I'm under any illusions here. Frankly, the potential for riots and death on an underprecedented scale frightens the daylights out of me. But in reality, it is only one of many possibilities and I know that by choosing the appropriate actions now, that possibility and many other equally negative ones can be prevented. This is where I differ from Gary North. Can all the computers be fixed in time? Nope. Should we all just give up and accept our fate? Even the Titanic had its survivors.

Keep in mind that not every conspiracy succeeds. Conspiring is tough work and success is never guaranteed - too many people looking out for their own self interests. Never grant a conspiracy more power than it would otherwise have.

Possibilities are never fixed in stone. They need not necessarily become realities. They need not be tradgically accepted as the only possible outcome. It's the choices that we make today, both concious and unconcious, that will determine history tomorrow. Fate is an illusion born from our unjustified fear of insignificance.

These are indeed dangerous times. What will we collectively do to face that danger?

Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), October 14, 1998.