DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, ANTI-TRUST DIVISION* Anestis - Bloch - Cyrulnik - D'Annunzio - Doak - Hancock - Harris - Isbell

* Harvard Branch

Hope this can serve as our umbrella message to gather our four questions for next week's MIT OS Experts deposition.

-- Anonymous, October 12, 1998

Answers

answers

You may ask questions as broadly as you wish.

-- Anonymous, October 13, 1998

Couple of Questions Before We Start

Before we start coming up with questions, are we supposed to be focused only on the Windows-IE matter, or broader questions of Microsoft's monopoly power? Sould we bring in Java, etc.?

-- Anonymous, October 12, 1998

JAVA Question

Here is an IE/JAVA-related question I have (if someone knows the answer, or wishes to criticize the question, please let me know)

Does MSJAVA, running on IE on non-Windows platforms, operate as well as MSJAVA running on IE on Windows?

Rationale: Microsoft's "expansion" of JAVA utilizes some of the functionality of Windows. Presumably, MSJAVA will run on IE across all platforms (thus potentially explaining the DLL files installed on the Mac with IE). If MSJAVA runs as well on IE on Mac as on Windows, IE does not reflect as large a "tilting" to the Windows environment. Under this scenario, the antitrust investigation may tend to uncover a leveraging of Windows to own JAVA as the platform of the future.

However, if the nature of the "Windows code" installed by IE on other platforms causes IE to perform less optimally on those platforms, MS can be seen to tilt the field back towards Windows. In this case, MS is leveraging the power of Windows to make MSJAVA the standard, to keep everyone on Windows.

These are two different potential motivating factors of MS actions, and they are based on different understandings of the compatibility of MSJAVA "Windows files" on other OS systems. The understanding of MS future goals could be important in understanding their current actions and in fashioning remedies.

-- Anonymous, October 13, 1998

Possible OS Questions

As DOJ, it's not our job to try to destroy Microsoft, no matter how "evil" we might think they are, but it is our job to prevent them from abusing their monopoly power. If the relief we are seeking against Microsoft has the potential to destroy its competitiveness, we must show that any harm was self-inflicted by Microsoft's slow pace of innovation. Microsoft has used repeatedly its monopoly power to fend off rival technologies and slow the pace of their acceptance while it plays catch-up. We want to argue that we are not trying to prevent Microsoft from competing, but that if Microsoft was really the great innovator that they'd like us to think they are, Microsoft would have beaten Netscape or Sun to the market, or at least not been far behind.

And now some possible questions:

Is it inevitable that native PC operating systems will soon become commodities, due to the internet, web browsers, Java, or other similar meta-platforms/OSs, or will there still be a market for application software that runs directly on the native OSs (and thus also a market for native OSs)? Because Java was designed to run on a wide array of products with different capabilities, are applications written in Java at a disadvantage against applications that run directly on the native OS? Does it make sense for there to be a single platform across widely different devices, or should there merely be a common interface and more customized platforms? Is Java a good implementation for a universal platform, or are there some serious deficiencies that could get in the way of its universal adoption?

Are there viable competitors to Java available or in development?

How has the PalmPilot been so succesful running its own operating system ("PalmOS") instead of Microsoft's Windows CE operating system? Is it because PalmOS is better suited to the hardware of the PalmPilot?

I've talked to some software engineers who claim that the Java language and platform is not very well suited for the development of graphical applications. If Windows is a better platform for graphical applications running on a typical PC system, won't programmers and users continue to choose native Windows programs over Java?

Is Java really that big of a threat to native operating systems, or can native operating systems such as Windows evolve and fend off Java?

Is Java really that much better than C++?

What prevented Microsoft from creating their own Java-like platform before Java gained momentum? Was it just because Microsoft was slow to innovate?

Andy

-- Anonymous, October 14, 1998

4 Questions (Strawman)

I thought I would post a strawman of the four questions we are to submit based on our 2 substantive posts. If anyone wants to modify, change, or substitute questions, please feel free. Please comment on these questions by 9:00pm Thursday so that Prof. Lessig will have a final submission by tomorrow morning.

1. Is there a considerable threat that native PC operating systems (e.g., Windows) will soon become commodities due to the rise of the internet & meta-OS solutions (e.g., JAVA)?

2. Does JAVA represent the primary viable meta-OS, or are there other viable competitors available or in development? (Is JAVA itself viable?)

3. Does MS-JAVA, running through IE on non-Windows platforms, operate as well as MS-JAVA running on IE on Windows?

4. To what extent is IE "integrated" with Windows? Is IE any less "integrated" with other platforms OSs when installed on other platforms?

-- Anonymous, October 15, 1998

other ideas

I could use some help with the following thoughts, maybe there's a good question in here:

IE issue: What distinguishes IE (integrated in the OS) from an "application" (on top of an OS), and would it be possible to "integrate" any application into the OS? In other words, why should IE not be considered an application?

Other stuff: Is there a good API question that we can ask?

-- Anonymous, October 15, 1998

Good IE question

Here is my take on IE and APIs:

I think Jim's IE suggestion better embodies the core issue and could replace strawman question #4. (And the answer to this question should apply to the old #4 as well.)

As Jim asked, is there a really good API question we could ask? Here are two questions I see, but I am not sure they reach Jim's standard:

1. How functionally extensive are the APIs in JAVA? 2. How easy/difficult is emulation of MS Windows APIs by a knockoff OS?

I think the first API question above could be incorporated into the overall JAVA viability question.

The second question would get to the heart of the viability of making Schmindows 98. My guess (pure guess) would be that APIs are difficult to emulate with the "up-to-date" MS functionality (even w/o copyright restrictions). Since ISVs would presumably write for the installed base (and the latest version of the prevailing OS within that base), some network effects would still apply. To run the latest software, you would need MS Windows. This answer would tend toward MS's "natural monopoly" and not the abuse of MS's power to extend or maintain its position. (I have made several logical transitions in my argument which everyone should feel free to challenge)

-- Anonymous, October 15, 1998

Four Questions Revised (Twigman)

Here's four questions.

Combine Strawman #1 with Strawman #2:

1. Is there a considerable threat that native PC operating systems (e.g., Windows) will rapidly decrease in importance (perhaps even become commodities) due to the rise of the internet & meta-OS solutions (e.g., JAVA)? Does JAVA represent the primary viable meta-OS, or are there other viable competitors available or in development? (Is JAVA itself viable?) Strawman #4b could be incorporated into Strawman #3 to create a broad question about IE and MS-JAVA operations on non-windows OS that relates both to technological "integration" and performance.

2. Is IE either less technologically "integrated" or less functional on non-Windows OS platform? Similarly, how does MS-JAVA perform comparatively across these platforms?

Question #3 can be the Part of OS vs. Application question:

3. What distinguishes IE (integrated in the OS) from an "application" (on top of an OS), and would it be possible to "integrate" any application into the OS? In other words, why should IE not be considered an application?

Finally the Smindows question touches on replicability, APIs, and JAVA:

4. How difficult would it be to create a copycat OS emulating Windows and its APIs? Would the existence of Java, or the of MS-JAVA make this more or less difficult?

For my next trick I will pack 7 days-worth of clothes in an over-night bag.

-- Anonymous, October 15, 1998

Proposal to Submit Questions

Jim, I like your formulation of the questions.

Unless anyone has any objections tonight, I propose that Jim submits the 4 questions on behalf of DOJ to Prof. Lessig tomorrow morning.

-- Anonymous, October 15, 1998

I concur

I have no objection to submitting them in their current form. Question one is a little complex for my tastes, but I'm willing to deal with it if necessary.

Given my druthers, we would edit it to read:

Q1. Could Windows rapidly decrease in importance due to the rise of the internet & JAVA? Is JAVA viable, and are any of its competitors better?

Mike d'A

-- Anonymous, October 16, 1998

Four Questions Ultimate Form (Brickman)

The Department of Justice submits the following four questions for Monday's expert witness testimony. We believe the discussion that will ensue from these questions will buttress many of our arguments regarding the continuing anti-competitive nature of Microsoft's behavior:

Q1. Could Windows rapidly decrease in importance due to the rise of the internet & JAVA? Is JAVA viable, and are any of its competitors better?

Q2. Is IE either less technologically "integrated" or less functional on non-Windows Operating System platforms? Similarly, how does MS-JAVA perform comparatively across these platforms?

Q3. What distinguishes IE (integrated in the OS) from an "application" (on top of an OS), and would it be possible to "integrate" any application into the OS? In other words, why should IE not be considered an application?

Q4. How difficult would it be to create a copycat OS emulating Windows and its APIs? Would the existence of Java, or the trumping of JAVA by MS-JAVA make this more or less difficult?

These questions have also been e-mailed to the powers that be (and have threaten contempt proceedings).

-- Anonymous, October 16, 1998