Has the level of discussion improved?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I just wanted to point out that I have been pleased with the kinds of discussion that has been going on on this forum in the last few weeks. For a while there, about a month ago or so, it got pretty inflamed, and didn't seem to be doing much to help us prepare or improve the world. Thanks to all contributors recently for the improved discussion level, and some really great threads. It's always rewarding to be able to use different perspectives of different people to help one test one's own ideas and conclusions instead of just getting bashed by people who don't agree with you. <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>..........

-- Dan Hunt (dhunt@hostscorp.com), September 16, 1998


> For a while there, about a month ago or so, it got pretty inflamed< Why are there now fewer insults on this threads? Is it because people who brought up religion were bashed and therefore quit posting here?

-- know thyself (wondering@USA.net), September 16, 1998.

"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society, the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one."

Thomas Jefferson

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 16, 1998.

Yes... tolerance is always one-sided, not just on this forum, but everywhere in society. Most views are at least tolerated, except those which call men to repentance. Man refuses to believe that he is a sinner in need of salvation, and will not tolerate others quoting the Word of God which declares that he is.

There are many Christians who once posted on this forum. Some openly declared that Christ is the ultimate Y2K Ark of safety and that the soul must be prepared, and some occasionally defended the faith against blasphemers and mockers. But they aren't heard from much these days because their views are not tolerated and they don't wish to be overbearing. However, they are expected to tolerate all the insults and abusive gutter language from the Christ-haters, and even allow their voices to be silenced by without a word.

For newcomers to the forum who may wonder who these people are, I suggest that you follow the responses to this post. It won't be long before they come out snorting and snarling just because the name of Christ has been mentioned. Some have gone, but they'll be back when they hear that "those religious fanatics have started talking again".

But, they should be reminded that Arcy didn't start anything... he was just responding to a post by another. Oh yes, I do want to respond to what was posted about Jefferson's religion.

Thomas Jefferson didn't talk much about 'religion', and for good reason. From the posted quote he appears to have had some sort of private relationship with God apart from the biblical pattern. He was raised 'Anglican' but his views were said to have closely resembled Unitarianism which not only denies the triune God, but also denies the depravity of man.

The posted quote says in part that "if it (his life) has heen honest and dutiful to society, [then] the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one". Now, I can't judge the relationship between Jefferson and Almighty God... before his own master he stands or falls. However, ANY religion which denies that mankind stands guilty before a Holy God, and therefore the ultimate price for one's sin must be paid in Hell unless the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ is accepted, is a false religion, be it ever so useful to humankind and to society. Comments?

-- Arcy Williams (arcy@usa.net), September 16, 1998.

"Among the most inestimable of our blessings, also, is that of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will; a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support."

Thomas Jefferson

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 16, 1998.

One more, then I stop, so as to not undermine Dan's point


I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good ... if a Christian voted for Clinton, he sinned against God. It's that simple. Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country...

-Randall Terry, former leader of Operation Rescue

I do not refer to myself as a Christian because of these types of 'Christians', but I try to follow Christ's words, it is a good way to live, and I do my best.

Christ also poked at and prodded the voices of the 'established religion' of his day.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 16, 1998.

There would never be a problem with religious discussion here if that discussion remained relevant to the Y2K problem.

Arcy says: === "Thomas Jefferson didn't talk much about 'religion', and for good reason. From the posted quote he appears to have had some sort of private relationship with God apart from the biblical pattern. He was raised 'Anglican' but his views were said to have closely resembled Unitarianism which not only denies the triune God, but also denies the depravity of man.

The posted quote says in part that "if it (his life) has heen honest and dutiful to society, [then] the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one". Now, I can't judge the relationship between Jefferson and Almighty God... before his own master he stands or falls. However, ANY religion which denies that mankind stands guilty before a Holy God, and therefore the ultimate price for one's sin must be paid in Hell unless the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ is accepted, is a false religion, be it ever so useful to humankind and to society. Comments?" ===

The above quote is the kind that many of us have a problem with. In one sentence Arcy says that he can't judge Jefferson, but in the next proceeds to judge all religions that don't believe what his believes.

You may interject your spirituality into Y2K discussions if you wish, but please don't subject us to irrelevant thoughts.

I believe spirituality plays a role in any type of preparation for the unknown, but what form that spirituality takes for others is none of your business.

-- Buddy Y. (buddy@bellatlantic.net), September 16, 1998.


I have learned alot here. I have only been participating for a couple of weeks, so I can't judge the current quality of postings as opposed to what came earlier.

Buddy is right - it is difficult to keep discussions on topic. I see this in meetings where I work. It's natural, but distracting. Some of the discussions are very good, but don't really relate to the original posting. If most of the threads start to focus on something other than Y2K, then I won't be heard from too often.

A suggestion - rather than being abusive, if you don't like a topic or comment, don't respond to it. Try posting a new question related to your own interests.

-- Mike (gartner@execpc.com), September 16, 1998.

It didn't take long for critics to attack Arcy, did it? From Arcy's post, I don't think he intended to contend with anyone. He said he was just responding to deedah's post where he quoted Jefferson. I gathered that he was saying Jefferson appeared to be 'religious' in an unbiblical way, (as many are today), but certainly could not claim to be a Christian in the classic sense. Now, what could be wrong with that? I'm sure that Jefferson would also agree... but not Buddy!

In response to the words of Jefferson, later quoted by Deedah: "Among the most inestimable of our blessings, also, is that of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will..", I whole-heartedly agree, but hasten to add that all our liberties end at the point where they conflict with the Holy Bible, the Word of Almighty God. Man is free to do whatever he chooses, but he must be prepared to pay the price for acting apart from the will of God.

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death" (Prov. 14:12). American citizens have liberty to worship anything they choose, even gods of wood and stone, but this cannot be said to be a blessing from Almighty God because it conflicts with His Divine plan of salvation!

There is only one way to establish a right relationship with God and be certain of eternal life, and that way is clearly made known in God's Word, the Bible. Gods of wood and stone, angels, and other created beings, can never bring peace and blessing to a troubled heart, nor can they afford divine protection during the y2k crisis. Any 'religion' which is not based upon the Word of God alone, and in its entirety, will always exact some sort of payment, will only balm the conscience for a time, and ultimately lead the soul to eternal damnation. My hope is that our forum friends will stop fighting those of us who care for their souls, and instead, seek the mind of God on what He would have each of them to do.

I agree that 'religion' has nothing to do with y2k, but Christ has everything to do with it. You see... He's responsible for it! Buddy says it's none of Arcy's business how or what one worships, but he's mistaken. True believers are ambassadors for Christ. They are on assignment continually and have orders to lead sinners to repentance and union with Christ, man's only hope of salvation.

-- Roy (roy@techcomm.net), September 16, 1998.

Oh crap, here we go again!

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 16, 1998.

Why that statement of disgust, Uncle Deedah? You started it!

-- Warren Applebee (warren.a@usa.net), September 16, 1998.

Why that statement of disgust, Uncle Deedah? You started it by quoting a man who apparently denied the authority of the Bible!

-- Warren Applebee (warren.a@usa.net), September 17, 1998.


Not disgust my friend, dismay.

For some reason when posters start crying "No fair, you are (or were) picking on us, just because we pointed out what hellbound heathens you are" I get upset, and feel compelled to respond. "Know Thyself" brought the subject up, after it had been (I thought), long buried after much contention and debate in the past.

I'm not perfect, I don't know everything, and, unlike some others here, I can admit it. Arcy and I have been around the bend before on this subject and I hold no grudges, nor do I believe that Arcy holds any against me. Don't let the bickering fool you. To mention Christ in a post does not automatically draw an attack, as most will agree that Pastor Chris is very well regarded and respected here.

Spiritual beliefs are without a doubt the most personal of all beliefs that a person can hold. To be told by smug self rightious posters that the beliefs you hold are misguided at best, or even evil enough to be sent to hell for at worst, anyone will feel as though they are being attacked in the most very personal of ways. Being an imperfect human, I respond, and fight back.

To Dan who asked the original question, and anyone else who found my response distastful, I am sorry.

To those of you who will still insist on showing me, and others of us how misguided we are for not seeing every passage in the Bible exactly the same as you, do not be surprised when we fight back!

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 17, 1998.

Ahem - folks? To answer the original question - YES, the level of discussion here has been very ggod during my short "lurking" time here. Lots of hard facts about how we can help each other to prepare, lots of support for each other and lots of personal experiences that the rest of us can draw from. I thank you all for it.

I could say more - I really could, but really............

-- Melissa (financed@forbin.com), September 17, 1998.

My thoughts exactly Uncle D! And now for another tasty selection from the good book: "If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God..."-II Corinthians 5:13

-- Connie L. (Cofkee@aol.com), September 17, 1998.

To Roy, a few things:

I did not attack Arcy.

Do not presume to speak for Thomas Jefferson.

Despite what you say, other people's religious beliefs *are* none of your business.

And, lastly, which Bible contains the Word of God? (Rhetorical question, please don't answer)

-- Buddy Y. (buddy@bellatlantic.net), September 17, 1998.

Famous Quotes From People on This Forum: "I wish my family would understand y2k." "Why is y2k so difficult for people to comprehend?" "Whenever I talk about y2k, people look at me like I'm from another planet." "Why me?" "We must get the word out about y2k." "If people aren't prepared for y2k, many will suffer."

Now reread these quotes and substitute "Christ" for "y2k." These quotes sound like something you would hear in church on any given Sunday. Christians know that Jesus (Messiah) will return someday. Those who are prepared will rejoice to see His face. For those who refuse to prepare, there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." Which group would you rather be in? In order to be prepared, you must accept that you are a sinner and believe that Christ died for your sins. "Good works" are not required.

-- Brown (gobigred@lycosmail.com), September 17, 1998.

Hey Brown, I like your word substitution game on "Famous quotes on this forum." How about substituting the words "ANAL SEX" for Y2K? Hee-Hee

-- Connie L. (Cofkee@aol.com), September 18, 1998.

Shame on you Connie. After all, look what a good example we have in the White House. I love those pictures of Bill carrying his bible out of church and only a few hours earlier getting a hum from Monica. Christianity lives! The best examples lie(or should I say liar) within our government. :)

-- Dave (dave 22@concentric.net), September 18, 1998.

Dan: It looks like Arcy was right. Just the mention of Jesus brings the snakes out of their holes.

Dave-22: Why do you identify Clinton with Christianity? He and his handler/spouse are actors, and the bible is part of their script!

Connie: You enjoy filthy talk, but its offensive to me. Why not be considerate of others on this forum and spit your juice at a porno chat room?

Christians: Do you still think that most posters here are your kind? Keep posting 'cause we all need divine intervention.

-- Guess Who (lurker@greenspun.net), September 18, 1998.

Brown writes: === "Good works" are not required. ===

That explains the hypocrisy of the proselytizers.

-- Buddy Y. (buddy@bellatlantic.net), September 18, 1998.

Yes I thought the level of discussion had improved until I saw some of the postings in this thread! Still not enough limericks or song lyrics though.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), September 18, 1998.

Forgive me in advance please, but I ran across this, and, well, I can't resist. I am sitting here with the mouse on the submit button engaging in a contest of will with myself. OOOPS, sorry, I can't stop myself.

"I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. so I ran over and said "Stop! Don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious. "I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said, "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord? "He said, "Baptist Church of God!" I said, "Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you reformed Baptist Church of God?" He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off." -- Emo Phillips

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 20, 1998.

Uncle, I found your post funny, but sadly true. However in the end it won't matter whether your are Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, or Catholic. The only thing that will matter is whether or not you believe that Christ died on the cross for your sins and rose again. No one is good enough to save themselves.

-- F. Brown (gobigred@lycosmail.com), September 20, 1998.


Deedah, you amaze me! In pointing out the hypocricy of 'professing', think-so Christians, which is rampant within organized religion, your message says: "Now, that's 'Christianity' for you! They're all alike... hypocrites and self righteous pretenders trying to tell others how they should live".

Indeed, the great majority of those who claim to be 'Christians', (regardless of the label they wear), are destined for divine judgment at the hand of the Christ they profess to worship. They have believed Satan's lie, that salvation comes through church membership, religious ritual, ordinances, penance, and good works.

Nevertheless, a tiny number of 'true' believers are growing like flowers among the weeds of the religious world. They are caring servants of God whose only agenda is advancing His kingdom and leading sinners to heart-felt repentance and faith in Christ.

I don't expect to impress you with these words, Deedah, but there are lurkers reading this who are genuinely concerned about the destiny of their souls. I want them to know that eternal life is not dependant upon anything that we can do, but upon the finished work of Christ on behalf of repentant sinners who cast themselves upon His mercy.

Personally, I'm not affiliated with any religious institution, and belong to no denomination or church organization. I'm an ambassidor for Christ, and I worship Him in spirit and in truth.

I suggest that spiritually troubled souls (especially church members), request an e-mail copy of "Let's Quit Playing Church", from Maranatha Ministries, . This is a well-written article which makes a clear distinction between those who 'profess' to have faith in Christ, and those who 'possess' it. It gives biblical proof that many professing Christians who are doing wonderful works in the name of Christ, will NOT be among those receiving eternal life.

-- Arcy (arcy.w@usa.net), September 20, 1998.


Actually, I posted that because it gave me a chuckle. I asked for forgiveness ahead of time because I realized that the post would not improve the level of discussion even though I found it humorous. I think the point of the joke was the silliness of dividing into sects. That is one of the reasons why I believe that how you worship is such a private matter.

And no, I dont by any means believe that all Christians are hypocrites, just the ones who are militant about enforcing their views on others. (Am I ringing a bell with you?) The devil offered Jesus the entire world, if Jesus wanted to have Christianity enforced around the world, that would have been the time to do it. But He refused, you see He understood that people must be ready to come to Him in their own time, lest their hearts not be in it, as you pointed out in your phrase heart-felt repentance and faith in Christ.

When you meet OUR maker, I wonder how upset He will be with you for turning away people who needed Him, but did not see Him, because they could not see past the arrogance of the messenger.

Get a sense of humor and laugh once in a while Arcy, it is good for you.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 20, 1998.

Deedah: Surely you don't need me to define 'hypocricy' for you, but just in case... 'Hypocrisy is the feigning of beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not possess". No, you didn't ring a bell with me, because I'm not a hypocrite, nor am I militant about enforcing my views upon anyone. What I offer on this forum is based solidly upon the Word of God, and not upon the opinions of men, including mine.

Jesus never offered a smorgasbord, mix & match plan of salvation, nor did He give men the option of worshiping as they see fit. It was man who corrupted the pure Word of God by creating a socialized gospel where one can do his own thing. Through religious ritual, and the feigning of holiness man tries in vain to appease God's wrath, but to no avail. "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Tim. 2:5).

What you perceive to be 'militant' is simply my refusing to be a wishy washy, anything goes servant of God. Apparently you, (like many others), have the mistaken notion that Jesus was a wimp who went about passing out flowers and preaching a 'let's all just get along' gospel of love and tolerance, but that's not the way He was. The Christians who get along well with unbelievers (and not just on this forum) are generally those who allow others to be comfortable in their sins. They are either silent or they preach tolerance, they are 'anything goes' Christians, or 'wanna be liked' Christians. They care more for the approval of men than for their souls.

You may not like my manner, Deedah, but remember this.... I really care about the eternal destiny of your soul.

The Bible is clear, Deedah, there is only ONE WAY to receive eternal life, and all religious roads DO NOT lead to heaven. Most Americans believe in God, but the devils also believe and tremble, which is more than most humans do! By your own admission, you are not a Christian, and therefore, according to the Word of God, it is impossible for you to understand the things of God because they are foolishness to you. Don't think for a moment that the devil had anything to offer Jesus, and Jesus plan of redemption was in no way connected with what you perceive Christianity ('churchanity') to be. Jesus does not rely upon man to come to Him in his own time. God is not in Heaven wringing His hands hoping that simmers will repent. He has an appointed time for everything He does, including building His church by calling His elect to repentance and eternal salvation.

-- Arcy (arcy.w@usa.net), September 20, 1998.

I remember Emo Phillips, what happened to him? Uncle D, since you seem to have a little knowledge of some of the bible, are you a believer in Jesus (God with us) as the only way to heaven, (ie. a Christian)? Brown: I agree with you. You're not "THE" Brown, are you?

-- Kay P. (Y2Kay@usa.net), September 21, 1998.

So, let me get this straight...

All I have to do is believe and it doesn't matter what else I do? What a convenient religion! Where do I sign up?

-- Buddy Y. (buddy@bellatlantic.net), September 21, 1998.

Buddy: You're already 'signed up', but not for Heaven, simply because you're a sinner! You believed Satan's lie, that, there's some good in all of us, and somehow that goodness will merit favor with God and appease His wrath. You're all set, Buddy, and you don't need to do anything to go to hell. Like the first puff of grass, the fare for the ride is free, for the time being, but the final cost is the loss of your imortal soul. So, just keep doing what you're doing, Buddy!

-- Hopi (hlc50@aol.com), September 21, 1998.


I always enjoy the "your not judged by your works" arguement. It tells me that Hitler, believing in Christ, would go to heaven, but, Mother Theresa, (conjecture) not believing in Christ, would go to hell?

Kay P

See my third post.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 21, 1998.

All this talk of religion, and not one mention of Toaism, or Budhaism, all religious beliefs tha predate Christianity! (and there are alot more of them then there are Christians) makes you wonder?

-- Hoseheadicus Rex (unkmangani@aol.com), September 21, 1998.


-- Mike (gartner@execpc.com), September 21, 1998.

Buddy, Yes salvation is as simple as believing. Because all of us are sinners, we all deserve to go to hell. "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8. When Jesus died on the cross He took upon Himself the punishment we deserved. He loved us that much. If we believe that Jesus died for our sins - We are saved. "For God so loved (Buddy) that He gave His only begotten Son, that if (Buddy) believes in Him he will not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16. I don't care how many good works Mother Teresa did. If she never accepted Jesus as her Savior, she went to hell. As far as Hitler goes, I doubt very very much that he was a Christian. Just calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you one. If you are a true Christian, you are so grateful to Jesus for what He did on the cross that you want to do good works - not to save your skin, but out of love for God.

-- F. Brown (gobigred@lycosmail.com), September 21, 1998.

Mother Theresa was a Catholic.

The Church has rules and an entire bureacracy already in place (since around the 1100's, and you thought governments were bad...) to determine whether a person is qualified to be declared a saint (i.e., can his or her proponents "prove" they made it to heaven by miracles, signs, or other evidence.)

in her case, don't guess. We'll know in time, if that's God's will.

Check too the dates of some "religions" mentioned. Several were started after Christ, that is, the Catholic religion.

We ani't gonna win this one, 'cause its a matter of faith, and ya can't "prove" faith. You just gotta believe it, you gotta live the way you believe, or live a lie. Nuff said?

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), September 21, 1998.

"The wages of sin is death, but, by the time taxes are taken out, it is just a sort of tired, run down feeling."

Paula Poundstone

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 21, 1998.

Deedah, you do enjoy living dangerously! To speak of God or the sacred scriptures, in an irreverent way, is BLASPHEMY, a grevious sin indeed. You have enough to answer for already, so why needlessly add to your sin debt?

-- Arcy (arcy.w@usa.net), September 21, 1998.

Relax, any God that can, in His wisdom, make a platypus has a sense of humor.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), September 21, 1998.

"Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being."-Proverbs 20:30. Arcy, why don't you do us all a favor and follow the teachings of your religion and flog yourself.

-- Connie L. (Cofkee@aol.com), September 22, 1998.

=== "I don't care how many good works Mother Teresa did. If she never accepted Jesus as her Savior, she went to hell." ===

How ridiculous can you get? If there has been anyone in the 20th century more Christ-like than Mother Theresa, it's certainly not any of you proselytizers.

-- Buddy Y. (buddy@bellatlantic.net), September 22, 1998.


Mother Theresa was indeed a caring woman whose good works would put most of us to shame. However, she cared more about the poor dying with dignity than she did about the destiny of their souls. Good works without saving faith in the finished work of Christ, and apart from any meritorious effort on our behalf, is DEAD works that lead to hell.

Now, please tell us what your understanding of 'Christ likeness' is, and perhaps you and I can have a serious discussion aboutit.

-- Merle (merle.b@usa.net), September 22, 1998.

OK, Merle, here goes:

Jesus taught love, compassion, and forgiveness.

I don't see much of this in the so-called Christian posts here. The so-called Christian posts here are showing nothing but judgement and contempt for anyone who doesn't look at it the same way that they do.

I don't see a need to say anymore about it than that.

-- Buddy Y. (buddy@bellatlantic.net), September 22, 1998.

One more thing:

I think your view of what Mother Theresa was about sucks. Note that I didn't say you suck, just your opinion on this matter.

-- Buddy Y. (buddy@bellatlantic.net), September 22, 1998.

In answer to the original question. "no" "non" "nein" "nyet" "no way" etc etc

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), September 22, 1998.

I see the problem here. Buddy said: "Jesus taught love, compassion, and forgiveness. I don't see much of this in the so-called Christian posts here." The problem is that Buddy thinks the reason Jesus came was to teach us how to live. While it was maybe a small part of it, THAT was not His reason for being here. He came to show us the WAY and told us that he was that only WAY. His death wasn't an accident, but he laid it down to take it up again to prove that he has power over death and sin and can and will save all of those who come to him from the wrath of God to come (which will be poured out against all unrighteousness). All of those who he's called know the difference between being only "like" Christ and being "In" Christ. And a parting quote: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." and "Fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." -Jesus

He didn't warn us of this for nothing. Don't shoot the messenger just because the message is one of urgency. Arcy does care, he's just aware that time is slipping away and this is a SERIOUS matter.

-- Kay P. (Y2Kay@usa.net), September 22, 1998.

I'm all for agreeing to disagree here. Enough said.

-- Buddy Y. (buddy@bellatlantic.net), September 22, 1998.

FOR THOSE INTERESTED in knowing Mother Teresa's beliefs and why some think she might not be a Christian see http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/teresa/general.htm This is for your info, I didn't write it and won't comment on it.

-- Kay P. (Y2Kay@usa.net), September 22, 1998.

Over the years, I've chatted with people of various faiths--Jewish, Muslim, athiests. Any time I asked what they thought about Jesus, they always respectfully replied that He was a good man, a good prophet. I proceded to inform them that He said He was THE way, THE truth, and THE life, and that no one could come to the Father except through Him. I reminded them, then, that they had just stated positive descriptions about Jesus. Next, I asked (and still do), if He was a "good" man, as you said, how could He be a liar???? The bottom line, as Jesus Himself said, is: Who do you say that He is?

-- Holly Allen (Holly3325@juno.com), September 22, 1998.

Buddy, you are absolutely right! Jesus DID teach love, compassion, and forgiveness, but He taught much more about obedience and judgment that you either ignore or refuse to see.

The following quote isn't original with me, but I think it fitting to mention it right about now:

"If I quote the Word of God and it offends you, then you should present your case to God and not to me. However, if I give you my opinion and it offends you, then I hope you are wise enough to ignore me".

-- Arcy (arcy@usa.net), September 22, 1998.


Your last quote is fine with me. If you will look back to your original quote here you will see that you asked for comments. I simply obliged by trying to point out which part of your message is rubbing people the wrong way. I never attacked you there, I only pointed out what I thought was inconsistent. I then was accused of attacking by someone else. I really don't care if people want to post their beliefs, but I think they shouldn't get upset when they are challenged. I have been challenged plenty of times on my opinions here. That's fine. We all have a right to our opinions.

-- Buddy Y. (buddy@bellatlantic.net), September 22, 1998.

"My young son asked me what happens after we die. I told him we get buried under a bunch of dirt and worms eat our bodies. I guess I should have told him the truth--that most of us go to Hell and burn eternally--but I didn't want to upset him."

"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is 'God is crying.' And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is 'Probably because of something you did.'"

Jack Handey

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 22, 1998.

Uncle Deedah, I could kiss you. A sense of humor like yours is a treasure on this list and anywhere else. I'll give you something that cracks me up more than any of Uncle's posts.

Mankind has been blessed (?) with spiritual awareness for over 2 Million (yes, with an M) years --- since even before he evolved into what we call Homo Sapiens. Animisn and other "earth religions" are documented well beyond a million years ago and are still practiced today.

Only 2000 years ago, more or less, come these new kids, Christ, Mohammed and Buddha. Living as they did shortly after the invention of writing and paper-and-ink technology, their story got a lot of "press." So today, a mere 2000 years later, their adherents thing that they are the last (not just the latest) word on spirituality.

Well, we know how clueless newbies are. Hallyx

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."--- H.L. Mencken

-- Hallyx (Hallyx@aol.com), September 23, 1998.

Here are some words that shut my sometimes self-righteous mouth: "If you were the only Bible that people read, what translation would you be?" I dont know who the original author of that statement was, but it is a thought worth pondering(with your mouth shut)

-- madeline (runner@bcpl.net), September 23, 1998.

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