"Any y2k optimist who thinks y2k can grab the public's attention now is suffering from y2k dementia." -Gary North, referring to the breaking Starr report...http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2564

Some thoughts and a prediction:

I agree wholeheartedly with Gary North on this one (see Sep. 12th entry entitled "Washington's 3-Ring Circus vs. Y2K Repair Efforts: "And the Winner Is..."") at the above URL...

One of the unintended side-effects of the Starr report was the legitimizing of the Internet as a vast and valid news outlet...

I expect there to be widespread problems on 1/1/99 due to the "Joanne effect". Serious enough to close down some companies, even if for only a brief period until a workaround is put in place. I also expect that the media will pounce on Y2K as a result. Just as the 450+ page Starr report was digested and summarized in an instant by the mass media, so, too, will the incredibly complex implications of the coming Y2K storm...

I'm not in the prediction business, but at some point, the media will jump on this issue. Obviously, not this year, given current events. But the failures will be too numerous and glaring, and the progress reports so bad, that it has to happen. I expect CNN will lead the way. I also expect that the Internet will be the source of choice for most people who want to know "the rest of the story"...

Until or unless Y2K is the lead story on the news, I expect very few people will wake up. Meanwhile, I keep banging my head against a brick wall trying to do what I can to spread the word...

-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), September 12, 1998

Answers

We keep waiting for the mass public "to get it". And I predict we will wait and wait and voila 1/1/2000. This "zippergate" will consume the nation's atention and I think it will go on for months. The House will hold televised impeachment hearings and we will probably be treated to Ms Lewinsky recounting her sexual adventures live and in color. A few business failures due to the Joanne effect won't matter. It just doesn't have any ... sex appeal. Hmm, maybe Citicorp could get Paula Jones or Linda Tripp to pubicly (er, publicly) explain ..... - nah, forgettaboutit. If panic happens it will be late - 4th quarter '99. If I were a conspiracy nutcase, I would start believing that this whole "affair" is staged solely to distract the public. Afterall, it is in the governments interest to keep the mass hordes, (geeks, geekettes and geek-wannabes excluded), as far away from Y2K awareness as possible. I know Steve has good intentions but I would say give it up. Try to gently present Y2K to your family and close friends. Make your preparations and alternatives. Keep your head down. Its going to get rough.

-- R.D. Herring (drherr@erols.com), September 12, 1998.

R.D.,

I fully understand what you mean with the "give it up" attitude. But I will never do that, not until 1-1-2000. Here's why:

We owe it to our fellow humans to pull together. If I can save even one person from going through calamitous hardship by my efforts to trumpet this problem, well by golly, I'll trumpet. Look at Noah and the Flood scenario -- he preached tirelessly about the coming crisis for 120 (count 'em) years. How many people listened and acted upon his warnings? No one but his own family. Consequently Noah and his family were the only humans to survive the Flood. Did that make his 120 years of preaching a wasted effort? Not a chance. His family was saved. And he could sleep nights, knowing that he had done his level best to warn the world.

I don't want people coming to me in January 2000 and after, saying, "You knew, but didn't tell us. We might have listened and acted."

Do you?

-- John Howard (pcdir@prodigy.net), September 13, 1998.

It's time to join the paranoia party. Here's a good one for all you paranoia junkies.

Have you ever asked why moves against Bill Clinton are only now been made? Why wasn't this done before his re-election?

Maybe because they want to divert media attention away from Y2K crisis!

-- Frank Wood (fjw@panther.netmania), September 13, 1998.

Im no fan of Bill, but I must say that I somewhat pity the poor bastard. Yes he dug his own grave, but I dont think he has been getting any from Hillary in a long, long time. The American public wanted a strong, virile leader, and, well, they got the virile part anyway. As he stated to Dick Morris, (another moral rock) I have tried to shut my body down, sexually that is. Thats OK Bill, the press will shut it down for you.

Did anyone else wonder where Al Gore has been lately? I hear that he was being treated for termites, as was thus unavailable for a short time. Getting rid of Bill just trades one 'woodie' for another.

This hysterical nonsense is a mixed blessing, it diverts the publics attention from the real issues, and weakens an already lackluster Prez, but it also gives those in the know more time to prepare before the prices increase.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 13, 1998.

Come on guys and gals, didn't any one go shopping this week? There Y2K in all it's glory on the cover of The Weekly World News! When I was standing in line at Safeway yesterday, one guy behind me said "thats all B.S. no computer glitch will do all that". His friend replied in a knowing fasion,"you can buy a program that fixes all that at Walmart for about $25" End of story!

-- Bill (bill@microsoft.com), September 13, 1998.

I've never been one to listen much to conspiracy theorist, but I saw something interesting not too long ago, that has me thinking. My husband and I were visiting family in East Central Kansas, over the Labor Day weekend. On our way home, we saw a train, that was obviously steam powered (judging by the shape of the stack and the smoke comming out.) Even more interesting was what it was pulling...car after car of passanger cars. Various shapes and sizes and appeared to be empty. It's been awhile since I rode on Amtrak, but this seems to be an "odd" sight. Any comments?

-- Gina Decker (gngdecker@ckt.net), September 13, 1998.

I agree with you on this one, Uncle. I just read the Starr report, or at least the juicy parts, and I saw a very lonely man. Isolated by the strictures of his office, void of family attendance, and watched by friends and press alike, from the braches of every tree in Washington. He fell for the oldest setup, and his logic as well as his actions went adolescent. That seems to happen reliably when our thinking aparatus migrates somewhat south of our craniums. Anyway, he can be assured he won the undying love of a young woman - one whose emotions were so deep and powerfull that she was compelled to gut him in public. Ah, the complexities of young love!

Anyway, I have wondered why Bill didn't jump on the y2k bandwagon with both feet. I mean, anything to distract the news. If he had made a big enough stand on y2k, maybe some of the news hounds would have stopped sniffing at Monica's tail..er trail.

Lon Frank

-- Lon Frank (none@thanks.com), September 13, 1998.

John H. I totally agree with what you wrote. We have just a short time to be laughed at and called lunatics among other things. If Noah, in his time, could withstand 120 years of being made fun of, called names, and his warnings going nowhere...I think that the short time that we have to warn others won't even begin to compare. I feel like Noah at times but don't think that I could stand living with the guilt that I did nothing about it and that those not prepared were suffering because I chose not to speak up. That would be a lot to carry. So far our pastor has not made any plans for our church to prepare...however that won't stop some of us from getting together and getting the word out and making plans to prepare. One man has gone to our city council to get things going and to make everyone aware. Like Noah, we need to warn the people! However, we cannot force everyone on board. Still trying, Blondie

-- Blondie Marie (Blondie@future.net), September 13, 1998.

John and Blondie, I think you have great intentions and a good heart. But lets think about this in a little more detail. The people on this forum are not some secret society with hidden knowledge and powers. Y2K has been widely publicized. Front cover magazine articles, front page New York Times, CBN television special, etc, etc. Overwhelmingly the middle and upper classes in this society ARE aware of it. They just don't want to believe it. It will interefere with their indulgent, consumerist little lives. Certainly you should attempt to share your insight. I'm just saying to focus it carefully and don't let it distract you from your own preparations. There is a tremendous amount to do even if you think this is a six month interruption. Lastly, just what are you going to do when the neighbors 6 houses down who never would associate with you show up to be fed (along with their 20 relatives). Your supplies might last one week and now you can watch your family starve. By all means, leaflet the neighborhood, offer to hold seminars, print up some of the better stuff off the Web. But you better be prepared to leave Dodge if your neighbors know you have food and they don't (and they won't). Social cohesiveness in the suburbs of large cities will dissolve about two weeks into this mess if the worst happens.

-- R.D. Herring (drherr@erols.com), September 13, 1998.

Once Y2K becomes a PERSONAL issue, it will take on far higher importance than Bill's antics. Once John Q. Public finds that he can't trust his bank and other financial institutions that he deals with (or knows, personally, of someone perhaps in another state that has rolled over to fiscal year 2000 early in 1999), then illumination and enlightenment will prevail. Problem: Too late for ANYONE to prepare, then.

-- Joe (shar@pei.com), September 13, 1998.

Wow, a train pulling empty cars! Now there is something that would keep me awake nights. Maybe it's going to round up Y2K fanatics and put them in detention camps. We might have problems in 2000, but some of you people have totally lost it! Get a grip!

-- Sane Man (Sane-Man@aol.com), September 13, 1998.

(in)sane one

You are so wise, please do share your wealth of knowledge in detail, so as to put our minds at ease.

What problems do you speak of, since you admit to some?

Or is just being a smarta** your only skill.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 13, 1998.

Hmmmm. Steam train pulling empty cars in eastern KS around labor day? Just a guess...they used to have a railroading festival in Topeka around Labor day weekend. When we lived in the area, we used to take our train crazy kids to it. Hope that is a clue to mystery.

-- Timothy Rebman (trebman@megavision.com), September 13, 1998.

Uncle Deedah, you're a quicker (more accurate) judge of character (or lack of it) than I am. I tried to be fair on the other thread, but it looks like it is no use. Why do people like that stay and keep reading (& responding) if they don't like what they see? Back to the original question asked in this thread, have you seen the latest Drudge report? Apparently another 25 year old has a story she wants to tell about her affair with Clinton. He is in for a tough time if it's true. www.drudgereport.com

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), September 13, 1998.

Burying money in pipes??? Trains pulling empty cars?? And now, Matt Drudge! I have truly seen enough now to know that some of you are slightly brain dead. I think it's really cute how Gayla is Uncle Deedah's little "yes" gal. Glad I stubmled on this site today. It gives credence to my name. BYE!

-- Sane Man (Sane-Man@aol.com), September 13, 1998.

I disagree that Y2K has been "widely publicized". Weekly World News is not read by more than 1% of the population (in fact, I'm sure it's signifantly less than that). Ditto for ANY newspaper. The vast majority of Americans get their news from Dan, Peter, or Tom. Until or unless one of the big 3 starts to give Y2K the time it merits, most people will be ignorant. Of course, even if the networks do (I won't hold my breath), many will remain in denial or fail to act. Or it will already be too late to act.

-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), September 14, 1998.

Wow! A promotion! And I thought I was only your "maybe, girl" Uncle Deedah! (My husband thought it was really funny. He said that is definitely a gender-specific term: a Yes, Man!) Just in case any readers are wondering about this "discussion", look back at the "Bank Runs" thread to see "Sane Man's" rude comments. PS- Seriously, Uncle Deedah, I think you have a great deal of wisdom, and I'm not just "kissing-up" so I can come to the party! :-)

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), September 14, 1998.

I agree with you, Steve...it is NOT widely publicized. I keep waiting to see a big story on Y2k on 6o minutes, Dateline or 20/20. If that does happen, you can bet more (not all) people will become aware and start preparing. The delay is either to avoid panic or they themselves are in denial...or bigger reasons than I can imagine. Down the road, these 3 (and others) will be held accountable (responsible) for not having done so, because they DO know! Meanwhile we need to keep getting the word out. Blondie

-- Blondie Marie (Blondie@future.net), September 14, 1998.

Steve, Peter Jennings did 2 separate pieces on Y2K back in late May/early June. He had Ed Yourdon, Gary North, etc. on the segments. (By the way, Mr. Yourdon the view out your back door is gorgeous!) :-) I showed the clips to several friends and it DID make a difference to them that it was the "mainstream" media. Unfortunately, I haven't seen much since.

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), September 14, 1998.

Please Gayla, the man is hard enough to live with now, shhhhhhh.

PS Deedah thanks you for the kind words, and cheap bastard that he is, he would not extend so many invitations if he thought there was a good chance of having to follow through. (sadly)

-- Uncle Deedah's Wife (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 14, 1998.

Don't confuse QUANTITY with QUALITY on Y2K awareness. "The thorn in my foot hearts worse than the spear in your side" as the saying goes. I guarantee you, press coverage or not, next year when Y2K problems start affecting people on a personal level -- e.g., they miss checks, or encounter incorrect statements from their banks -- awareness will blossom. With or without help from the news media.

-- Joe (shar@pei.com), September 14, 1998.

Gayla, I'm sorry but I missed those segments. Any way to get copies or transcripts? My point, however, remains: No in-depth coverage of the sort we're seeing with Zippergate. I would argue that the long-term impact of Y2K is much greater than that of our Prez, impeachment hearings or not. I understand Y2K isn't "sexy", but it is at the top of a long list of very serious world issues which deserve more coverage.

-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), September 14, 1998.

Amen! (to that) I missed that airing also. Wish they would "re-run" that show instead of some of the other ones. Blondie

-- Blondie Marie (Blondie@future.net), September 14, 1998.

For general reference, other readers may not enjoy the "personalities" of these two, but I respect their honesty and thoroughness in covering items often 'whitewashed" by the "politically corrupt" mainstream press:

I use World Net Daily (editor Ed Farah, at http://www.worldnetdaily.com) and Neal Boortz (www.boortz.com)

almost exclusively for poilitcal news. The Drudge Report is good as a link to other sites, but I prefer to let "news" cycle for a couple hoours to avoid the supermarket "tabloid" attitude and prejudices of UPI/AP/CNN/etc. Those two guys then have time to review things overnite, update their columns and links, and then I can save time looking at fewer garbage files. The Drudge report does not load new info every day (but only as he (Drudge) comes up with a story, so often, his site is only a link to the other (mainstream) reporters.

Farah covers Y2K regularly, and from the political side as well as the "who isn't doing something" side. The national press will only repeat the administration's spin. Boortz is not convinced yet of Y2k serious problems, but I'm working on him and his producer. More important, he listens and follows real information, but only when he feels its important to him. As things progress, I'll mold his views, based on nothing else but the threats of riots and looting in downtown Atlanta as services deteriorate during the troubles.

Farah's newspaper can be emailed to you each morning. I respect his opinions, but again I must caution you that he is opinionated and open in his faith. Those of you who are uncomfortable with such affirmations are warned.

Farah does accept "email" to the editor, and he has given me the honor of being published there several times regarding political and Y2K issues. Boortz uses his site as his radio program notes, so they are more content driven, but are worth a shot. He too, is very opinionated.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), September 14, 1998.

Last week when I saw the tabloid cover story on Y2K I thought that maybe it was a precursor to the mainstream media getting on board. One of the tabloids did break some hard news during the OJ mess, maybe they could slip up again and find a real story.

But this week the same rag is front-paging the Biblical End Of The World for the year 2000. Sure to give last week's story the nail in the coffin.

Well maybe a well-informed and prepared one percent of the population is the proper starting point for the Y2K festivities. After all the American Revolution only had twelve to fifteen percent of the population taking active part in the fighting, if current history is to be believed. WW

-- wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), September 15, 1998.

10-4, R.D., you're coming in loud and clear. Good points. And I for sure agree with what you said about letting Everybody & his brother know all about how much food you have and where it is and how to sneak past the watchdog and all that. Was talking about that with a buddy just the other week. It's a fine line, a balancing act.

But I still don't think Y2K has been widely publicized. Not widely enough, or in the right ways, it hasn't. As you folks rightly point out, by some people it's tossed into the same basket with the Lizard-Man-sighted-crossing-a-highway-with-a-Volkswagen-under-one-arm-and-Elvis-under-the-other-arm type stories too much (yeah they had people saying that for real in SC some years back, in case you were wondering!). So the superficial observer says, "Ah, just another bunch of fanatical worry-warts...or like those Heaven's Gate people, or the Branch Davidians. End of the world."

So it's been reported as a tabloid-type story, some; it hasn't been reported as a serious thing nearly enough. Didn't Yardeni give the media a 'D' grade on their overall reporting efforts? The July 3 Gallup poll on Y2K said "only one in five Americans thinks computer mistakes due to problems recognizing the year 2000 will cause major problems in their own lives; 77% foresee only minor problems at worst." (http://www.gallup.com/POLL_ARCHIVES/980703.htm) I called an old buddy in Manhattan the other week, he'd heard next to nothing about it, more than it being a techie-type problem that wouldn't concern him. And he's a pretty smart guy. (I'm concerned about him being in NYC.) Saw a guy who's on my Y2K e-mail list the other week, and he proudly says, "Well I think I got my PC Y2K compliant!" I said Great, then asked him what his thoughts were about preparing in the way of food, water, heat, etc...and got a blank stare. In spite of all the stuff I've been sending him! Hope he's an isolated case.

Some haven't heard, in a way that makes them sit up and go "Whoa!" They've just got some vague idea that it might mess up some computers, but no personal application in their lives. Some have heard and just don't get it at all. And some have heard and proactively deny it. (I don't spend too much time on that 3rd group.)

So I still say we have work to do, to at least try to get the word out better. Yeah R.D., we need to get ourselves ready too, you're right. Our friends, family, those of them who have listened, anyway. But I just can't quit trying to tell others...or trying to get the local media, the utilities chairman, the mayor, etc. to wake up. These may end up being exercises in futility, but my conscience just won't say 'give up'. At one point in time, none of us knew about this; someone had to clue us in. I just figure we owe it to other folks to give them the same break somebody gave us. Got to be smart about it though, like you say. Lest those to didn't listen (prepare) too well come "break" us when the going gets rough!

JH in NC

-- John Howard (pcdir@prodigy.net), September 16, 1998.

John, et al, Okay, I surrender to your definition of "widely publicized". I take this to mean that all the talking heads say virtually the same thing for weeks while getting 'live' updates from deadhead reporters (no slight intended to Jerry G.)! And yes, if it gets personal to a lot of people that will get attention. I don't really expect the Joanne effect to do that. But I readily admit that could be wrong. And please don't mistake my caution for not wanting to help people. I will- in spades. But if I'm not functional, how do I help anyone?

-- R. D..Herring (drherr@erols.com), September 17, 1998.