I was fortunate to be able to go to the Brickyard 400 race at Indy a few weeks back, and as we were driving there down US 31 north of Kokomo, In. we came upon Grissom AFB. Right inside of the barbed wire enclosure, a new water tower has been constructed, as well as several 3 story dormitory style buildings. The unusual thing about these buildings is that the windows look to be about 1 ft. X 2ft. tall very remeniscent of Cell blocks. The entire facility has barbed wire, and light poles around it.

It is all very visible from US 31, check it out if you are able

Rod

-- Rod (rod_harmon@usa.net), August 19, 1998

Answers

Did you by any chance ask anyone why it was being built? There's military bases all over the US, which I believe are left empty for future detention centers.

-- Bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 20, 1998.

Perhaps it's being turned into a state or federal prision? Growth industry, y'know. Or maybe it's a military detention facility.

Not enough info there to determine exactly what's really going on.

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), August 20, 1998.

It's amazing what 10 minutes of digging around on the Web at lunch can do for you if you really want to find something out.

For instance, if you check out the site:

http://131.84.1.34/environdod/derpreport95/vol_2/nara087.htm

you find out that Grissom Air Force Base in Peru, Indiana was marked for closure in 1991. Approximately half of the land on the base has already been turned over local development. The rest seems to be tied up in some environmental clean-up problems and is still under the control of DOD.

A little more poking around eventually leads you to discover the building on the grounds of the former base that looks like a prison is, in fact, a prison. It is the new Miami Correctional Facility to be operated by the State of Indiana. It seems the base sat in Miami County, hence the name. Anyway, by following the link

http://www.miamicountylife.com/ForTheRecord.asp

and the links you find there you can find out all sorts of things, like the fact that bids were accepted until 6/18/1997, or that ground was broken during the week ending 9/6/1997. It doesn't seem to be complete yet, at least I didn't find any mention of it opening up. Of course, I only spent 10 minutes on this project so I might have missed it. (I did find the formal request for bids on construction of the water tank, though.)

-- Paul Neuhardt (neuhardt@ultranet.com), August 20, 1998.

Here's some info about FEMA, their purpose, their powers, and their plans to plans to "suspend" the constitution and intern American civilians. This isn't speculation; it's all a matter of public record. These camps are everywhere, and there's plenty of evidence for them, not just hearsay. Do a search under REX 84 for god's sake. Did it happen or didn't it? Do you care? It's only a matter of time before the dry-runs are over. Don't let Agent Paul lull you back into a stupor. You're on the net; look for yourself.

http://4bypass.com/stories/fema2.html

http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html

Here's a political site; scroll down to "Executive Order 13083 on Federalism." This is a masterful analysis, showing how current federal orders have superceded previous ones, in an attempt to quash the power of the individual states in the event of "national emergency", such as the people waking up and slipping their leash. Note especially passages that have been deleted from the previous E.O., which would have given due consideration to the rights of the 50 states.

http://www.russo4gov.com/ (scroll down to the Federalism E.O. link)

There it is. Now when I see you in camp, you'd better give me your jello, 'cause you can't say I didn't warn you.

You think I'm joking, but that jello is MINE, and so are YOU. -or, you can do your homework, learn to shoot straight...

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), August 20, 1998.

So! you will go to the camp afterall. Enjoy your jello, I'll be envious since I'll be eating worms, or maybe they will be eating me;)

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), August 20, 1998.

E.,

I'm not an agent anymore. I lost my secret decoder ring one night while while I was out rounding up some rabble, and they took away my FEMA stormtrooper license and gun as punishment. Not wanting to do anything for FEMA as mundane as provide disaster relief, I resigned and have since decided to sit on my porch, singing happy songs while waiting for the world to end. I hear that's coming soon. Any info on that?

-- Paul Neuhardt (neuhardt@ultranet.com), August 20, 1998.

I saved my joke for the end of my post, Paul. But your post is all joke. Try responding to the links on FEMA, or the Executive Orders. Are you claiming that REX 84, FEMA's domestic operation to intern dissident US citizens without trial during an "emergency" is fictional? Sen. Brooks questioned Ollie North his part in it during the Iran-Contra hearings, and Sen. Inouye refused to allow it, citing "matters of national security" and suggesting it be deal with in chambers. He did this repeatedly and with growing emphasis until Brooks gave up. THIS IS REAL, PEOPLE - AND YOU AND I ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW ABOUT IT.

No, spooks and the military never try to make an end-run around the constitution - it couldn't happen here in America. No, they haven't been emboldened by our acceptance of Iran-Contra, or of their successful crushing the investigation into their control of the cocaine trade. No, no, dictatorship happens to OTHER countries (right, the SA facist dictatorships we've been funding for years: prototypes). This is dysfunctional "perfect family" logic run rife in the body politic, and it's going to get us in the end: don't mention the dirty family secrets; don't even let yourself THINK them...

Don't worry Uncle D., I was trying to shock P. into understanding what's at stake with a horror he could understand: life without jello. They'll never take me (alive OR dead).

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), August 20, 1998.

Of course my post is all joke. It was supposed to be.

Is martial law in this country possible? Yes. Is it likely. No. Hell, we couldn't even enforce it in Ethiopia, a country with no sustantial military left and pretty small in size. And that was with the help of troops from other countries. Besides, which is it: Is the governemnt a bunch of losers who have yet to figure Y2K out, or is it a bunch of super-fascists who have been waiting and planning for years for Y2K to hit before making their move? You can't have it both ways, and yet you appear to be trying to do just that. I must be missing something in your position.

Look, if "the secret government" was going to impose such a state on the populace, there are far, far easier ways to go about it than concocting some bizarre front organization out of FEMA. We already have a perfectly good military in existence to provide the muscle and multiple secret organizations to do the planning work. Using FEMA as a front is not only a weird concept, it doesn't make good logistical sense.

And there is still the question indirectly presented in my first post on this thread and so far unanswered: How does the existence of a building that looks like a prison "prove" that detention camps for the general populace exist? Isn't it just possible that that the thing really is a prison for locking away thieves, rapists and murderers in? We do seem to have an oversupply of all those people these days. I would be genuinely interested in your answer.

-- Paul Neuhardt (neuhardt@ultranet.com), August 20, 1998.

If Big Brother wanted to move us in the direction of martial law and detention centers he would not be doing 2 things. 1) decreasing the size of the military and 2) spreading out our limited number of troops throughout the world. We would have a strong army, navy... with a strong national presence and we would be ignoring the outside world.

Also, Big Brother would not place an agent like Paul on this site. His ideas are much too lucid, deal too much in common sense and too easily difuse the outliers of the bell curve. Big Brother would place someone on this site that would make someone like me disbelieve the magnitude of y2k by completely blowing things out of proportion. For example Gary North and his editorial embellishment, FEMA actually being made up of stormtroopers or NATO troops running things come 2/1/00.

Outliers, please forgive my ignorance and pass the Jello.

-- bhayes (bkhayes@intellex.com), August 20, 1998.

E.,

As usual, your links lead to other people's opinions. If you want us to look at federal regs and statutes, why don't you find the links to the govt. site where they are listed? One can find opinions on the web to back any position.

-- Buddy (buddy@bellatlantic.net), August 21, 1998.

Clarity: 1. I don't believe FEMA is the only tool for impending US/Global facism. The Power Elite does not keep it's eggs in one basket. 2. I don't believe that Rod's camp sighting constitutes "proof" of anything. 3. I don't REALLY believe Paul is a secret agent. Necessarily...

The main criticism in the above posts seems to be: "hey mister conspiracy man, if some secret government wants to take over, imprison dissidents and create a totalitarian state, why are they reducing the number of regular troops? Huh? Answer me that, MISTER CONSPIRACY MAN." The answer requires context. (Let's ignore the fact that you did not give even a passing glance to the matter of REX 84). The prize here is not a facist USA. The prize is global control - and always has been. We (humans everywhere) are being conditioned, threatened, seduced, bought off, into accepting that we need a global government. Everywhere, the US corporations (Lockheed, Bechtel, GE, et al) that control the military (this would be that "military industrial establishment" that Eisenhower warned us about, remember?) have been violating the sovereignty ("destabilizing") of various nations, citing the danger of their "extreme nationalism." Extreme nationalism means that the people of those nations have the annoying habit of insisting that their wealth stay right where it is, instead of being siphoned out with the aid of the puppet dictators we set up "to create stability in the region," or "austerity measures" resultant from crooked loan terms signed off on by the same well-paid (or well terrified) puppets. Okay. So this is the game (one aspect of it). But the players aren't "American" anymore. They never were. The people with this scale of control USE countries, they don't belong to them. America's OWN "extreme nationalism," once a red white and blue blinder to the abovementioned thefts and atrocities, has outlived it's usefulness. Asia's been taken care of. Power (if you haven't noticed) is being concentrated in the EU. America is thrashing, lashing out, pumping itself up with a debt-driven economy. America is in self-destruct mode, right on schedule. It will no longer be the power base for the global elite, and assumes a peripheral role. SOLVE ET COAGULA. "Dissolve and Unite." The General Agreement on Tariffs and Trades supercedes the US Constitution (Does it not?). ...Keep your eye focused on the stain on this dress...you are getting very sleepy... When the Western Hemisphere is one ECONOMIC entity, it will become one POLITICAL entity soon after. Do you think the U.S. Constitution will make the cut? Or will we be just another part of the region, another banana republic? Look at the degree of personal freedom you find in chile, argentina, peru. "Our boys" CREATED those facist regimes. I'm saying THAT is the society can expect in the 21st century USA. Y2k moves that along, by creating a crisis that people respond to by giving up MORE of their constitutional rights and giving the apparatus of the state more power over their lives. Emergency Powers: a noose tightening with every crisis, easing off a bit as that crisis is resolved, tightening still more with the next crisis, making slow progress toward the goal of total control. The fourth amendment is already gone. We lost it. The second amendment is next. How many holes can they shoot in the Constitution before they can convince us that we ought to let them write us a new one? Hey, maybe one for the whole Western Hemisphere... To get back to the question at hand: they don't need more regular troops to create a facist USA. They just need a lot of corrupt, bewildered and poorly educated people - getting them to police themselves and accept authority blindly in hope of personal comfort and gain (the pharonic crook) is just as important as violence and the threat of violence (the pharonic flail). And they have really been making progress in the crowd-control technology front: non-lethal EM waves that can totally incapacitate thousands of people at a time. Biotelemetry (brain implants) that can stop a charging bull with the flip of a switch. They won't need to hold us down to implement their plan; we'll be begging for it. After Y2k we'll be begging for an electronic banking system that is completely secure. We'll probably even accept the implantation of subcutaneous transponders for i.d., if they make them small and safe enough. If law enforcement fails and gangs run wild, expect confiscation of weapons, and an end to the second amendment - we'll be begging for it, and those who protest will be "constitutionalist extremists" - or whatever. There will always be enough stupid, spineless people willing to sell out - so that they don't NEED a large number of troops. The second part of that answer is that THEY ARE DEALING DRUGS. Read DARK ALLIANCE by Gary Webb, who broke this story and then lost his job because his editor didn't want to be tied up with piano wire (or whatever). Drugs are the second biggest business globally after arms. You can hire, and hide, millions of troops with the billions of dollars from this classic secret fundraising technique. If you are military intelligence, dealing drugs is as easy as, lets say, spitting into the wind. That's why they've been doing it for centuries. Remember Air America? Remember the opium wars? Yes, Buddy, I'll look for the .gov site that details this activity - but somehow I don't think I'll find it.

Did I answer your question?

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), August 21, 1998.

Excellent post, E. Coli. One of the best I've ever read. It shows how a global totalitarian system could be imposed. Not by force since there are far too few military forces to accomplish this worldwide. It would have to be done with the consent of the vast majority of the world's population. Why would they do this? Because it's better than what they've got. Better than watching your children starve or die of disease or be killed by armed lawless gangs. Not that I think the powers that be actually planned Y2K because clearly no one could. Actually I'd bet it's causing no small amount of concern to them right now since it is inherently unpredictable and those with the most have the most to lose. But "they" just might find a way to capitalize on the chaos once enough repair work has been accomplished. I'm guessing a year or so of total chaos followed by a quieter period as despair and hopelessness sets in and just when things seem like they'll never get any better... A miracle occurs! Someone has solutions to the very real day to day misery! Someone will lead us! Hoorah! Of course in order to join in the nascent prosperity you'll have to get this chip implanted (just a precaution to insure some imposter doesn't get the benefits you're entitled to by joining them, of course). One quote in particular comes to mind about all this. "No man shall buy or sell save he who has the Mark". Yep, THAT mark. Without it, you won't be legally able to get food, water, medicine shelter or anything else and punishment for stealing or even bartering outside the system will be death. Most of the doom and gloomers think technology will never recover from the Y2K shock. It will, of course. But we'll wish it hadn't.

-- Anon (anon@anon.net), August 22, 1998.

I think you people have been watching too many episodes of the X-Files.

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), August 22, 1998.

There is a real reason that many people on this forum distrust the gubmint. Ever hear of Ruby Ridge? If not, Im sure you have heard about a little arrest procedure called Waco. All those women and children died because David Koresh was suspected of having automatic weapons. Suspected mind you, not proven before the debacle unfolded. Why arrest him when he went to town alone, when you can destroy his dangerous cult in the bargain. We do have reasons to be wary.

You dont have to believe me, read From Freedom To Slavery by Gerry Spence. He is not some conspiracy nut, but one of the few defense lawyers that I truly admire, read his book, it is a $5 paperback that will open your eyes.

Be aware also that if you plan to keep a few thousand dollars in cash on hand for Y2K that the agents of your country can confiscate that money, WITHOUT CHARGING YOU WITH A CRIME. You see the money is guilty itself, only drug dealers use cash, dont you know that? The cash will be tested for drug residue, and since 90% of the cash in circulation tests positive, you are going to lose it. If you want it back you will have to hire a lawyer and sue for its return. These laws are used against innocent Americans every single day, but you dont hear too much about it in the mainstream press.

Miss watching Americas Funniest Home Videos one night, read that book and FREE YOUR MIND. It is the last truly free place on earth, but youll have to free it yourself.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), August 22, 1998.

PS, DON'T go to the goverment "bingo camps" its a trap.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), August 22, 1998.

Uncle Deedah, I'm well aware of Ruby Ridge, WACO. About two years ago the highway patrol stopped a speeding car near her. A man was rushing his pregnant wife IN LABOR to the hosptal. She was damn near ready to pop that kid and her husband would not pull over for the police siren. The cops set up a road block, stopped the car, maced this man and his pregnant, IN LABOR wife and dragged them out of the car. The cops were cleared, of course. This stuff happens daily. Suspected drug dealers being blown away by the American gestapo, who find no drugs or weapons. But...this concentration camp stuff is NUTS!! There are just too many people to pull that off.

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), August 22, 1998.

One thing really puzzles me regarding having control of an enslaved population. There is no profit in it. If I were a dictator I would much rather have a whole bunch of people working and tax the crappola out of them. If they are slaves I would have to feed and cloth them and even care for them when they get sick. It seems much better to have them contribute to their own support. If they are confined slaves, I would have to pay an army of guards. The logistics of slavery would be enormous. The present system of indentured servitude is by far superior. Slaves can't lease automobiles and buy television sets. The way it is now, folks sustain themselves, educate themselves and once they get to be wage earners, the government takes 1/2 their earnings in taxes. Think how much you pay in interest every year. We not only support this enormous government, we even support the the ruling class for whom the government does hand stands. But we are free aren't we? Now we are told that we must fear Bin Laden. Who ever heard of him till a few days ago? All we have to go by is what the government tells us. We all believed the Tonkin Gulf affair didn't we? I urge you all to read Orwell's 1984. To sum it up, slavery is inefficient. If it worked better I would be more afraid of it.

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), August 22, 1998.

It would be in the government's interest to remove from the general populace "troublemakers" who could stir up people who are close to the breaking point as far as unjust laws which overtax and curtail our constitutional rights. We all know of injustices, and who among us would not want to resist if we could find a leader???

-- Laurane (familyties@rttinc.com), August 22, 1998.

Very good post E, and anon. Says it all to the T.

-- Vic (Light_servant@yahoo.com), August 23, 1998.

Bill

All depends on how you define slavery, doesn't it? These wonderful advances in technology were supposed to make our lives easier, but I feel like I'm stuck on a treadmill sometimes.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), August 23, 1998.

E. is actually the smoking man off of the X-Files.

-- St. Paul (slick@hucheemama.com), August 24, 1998.

Feeling like your on a treadmill? Aren't we all? I recently read a book titled "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn. Although the story is totally implausible, it is quite entertaining and a great vehicle for Quinn to explain his alternative view of World history (which is about how we came to be on this treadmill called 'more,better,faster').

Re: detention camps. Is the gov'ment building them to ramp up for Y2K (or some other crisis du jour)? I doubt that it is even on their radar screen. Would they start building them (and have them ready by day after tommorrow) if they thought it would be necessary? Ask the American citizens of Japanese dissent who thought it would never have happened to them...

Aunt Carolyn

-- Aunt Carolyn (none@anon.net), August 26, 1998.