I was watching a commercial on TV where they show the father in a suit going out to cut grain, the kids milking the cow and mother polishing silver. It then goes into the other extreme where all is packaged together. It got me thinking...who s going to do all the work in these self suficient homesteads that so many are planning on? Who will be the one to grind the grain, make bread from scratch, churn the butter, scrub the cast iron stove, collect the eggs, gut and defeather the chickens, tend the garden, wash clothes on a scrub board etc? In the "lets go back to how it was before technology" wave..who will suffer? The women! It may be fun today to do a few of these things from scratch..but there is a good reason that cakes come in mixes and vacume cleaners exist. They sell, and they sell because they helped take women out of domestic slavery. Camping is fun for a little bit, but what happens when you run out of aluminum foil and have to sit on an icey outhouse seat in the middle of the night? How many women even know what a washboard looks like much less what it will do to their hands? Why did so many babies die at birth back in those days? Will women settle for looking and feeling like old hags just to do everything by hand? Dont tell me you will have a dryer..check out how much voltage one uses..you won't have enough solar panels to handle one. But then again..if the end of society as we know it does not happen..it will be a nice getaway. Providing you kept your old home.

-- Cherri Stewart (sams@brigadoon.com), August 13, 1998

Answers

...and who will plow 40 acres behind a balky horse/mule/whatever, get the trees off the fence without power tools, put the fence back together, help the cow deliver its calf, chop a cord of firewood with an axe, fix the roof, hunt down the pack of wild dogs that's killing all the livestock, tear down the briar patch, etc?

Sounds like plenty of suffering to go around, Cherri. There's no two ways around it, a complete collapse would really suck. For everybody. But if you would rather deal with the fence, I'll grind the grain & make the bread. :-)

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), August 13, 1998.

I agree with Larry. If this will be TEOTWAWKI, then both sexes will have to work equally hard to survive. I don't think people will worry about going to the beauty parlor. The last thing I would worry about is not having a dryer. I've lived for over a year without a dryer and got along just fine. It would be difficult without a washing machine though. Perhaps we've had life too soft.

-- June Cleaver (June@thebeaver.com), August 13, 1998.

June, that must be a real harship...living without a dryer! Say Hi to the Beaver for me.

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), August 13, 1998.

Don't worry. The programmers and engineers, men and women, will do all the work.

-- engineer (programmer@pollyanna.us), August 13, 1998.

Haven't you ever heard of child labor?

-- Amy Leone (aleone@amp.com), August 14, 1998.

Larry, I'll take you up on that. You can gnash your nuckles raw on the washboard while I, with foresight would not have built a fence close enough to a tree to have to repair it for that reason. How do you propose to help a cow deliver a calf? Coach it in breathing exercises? What if the calf is breech? Do you know what breech is and what to do? Are you aware that cows tend to drop their calfs at night? Are you going to stand out in the cold, night after night waiting? Will repairing the fence be a daily job or a once in a while thing? Rver use an ax to chop wood? You talk about cords of wood to chop...it wont come that way at your "homestead". Do you know the correct way to chop wood with an ax? You don't just chop at it, there is a method to use if you don't want to waste excess time and energy at it. Will the wood be green? (from a freshly cut tree) or aged and dried? Have you ever used a hand saw? Do you know in which direction to apply the most pressure? How not to cut strait, but at reversing angles? put out bait for the dogs then shoot them..better yet poisen the bait~~~just hope your "guard" dogs don't get ahold of it. BRIAR PATCH????? Have you been reading childrens stories or WHAT? If they are wild berry bushes you don't want to tear them down, they provide food. If your roof leaks..you built it wrong in the first place. As for plowing....do you have any idea of how to do it or what to plant? Self sustaining "gardens" need to be planned with care. You wouldn't want all of your tomatoes to ripen at the same time! Have you any idea what produce thrives best in what kind of soil? Do you know how to dig a pit for your outhouse and what to put in it to prevent illness in your family? YES I will take "your" job over that which has traditionally been the womans work in a fast minute!

-- Cherri Stewart (sams@brigadoon.com), August 14, 1998.

> Muffy and Buffy (with 3 weeks camping expertise in 32 years) each,move >out "there" with Muffy 2 and Tres (Buffy III)... at the "farm" they bought >with the Trust Funds "just in case". > >Muf: Buffy dear, would you please go and milk Bessie again?? >Buf: Muffy my love, it is your turn you know. >Muf: Buy sweetums, it was never like this back in Plano. >Buf: Well that was before all those Yankees rioted when they closed the >Neimans and you did agree we would leave if it got real bad. >Muf" I know, I know will it ever be ok for us to go back?? Maybe they have >the Bennigan's opened by now or at least a Pizza Hut. >Buf: Well, if that's what you really want. I know the last TWO DAYS have >been really hard on you. I suppose we could come back on weekends. >Muf: But we wouldn't have to would we???

-- buy texas (buytexas@swbell.net), August 14, 1998.

> Muffy and Buffy (with 3 weeks camping expertise in 32 years) each,move >out "there" with Muffy 2 and Tres (Buffy III)... at the "farm" they bought >with the Trust Funds "just in case". > >Muf: Buffy dear, would you please go and milk Bessie again?? >Buf: Muffy my love, it is your turn you know. >Muf: Buy sweetums, it was never like this back in Plano. >Buf: Well that was before all those Yankees rioted when they closed the >Neimans and you did agree we would leave if it got real bad. >Muf" I know, I know will it ever be ok for us to go back?? Maybe they have >the Bennigan's opened by now or at least a Pizza Hut. >Buf: Well, if that's what you really want. I know the last TWO DAYS have >been really hard on you. I suppose we could come back on weekends. >Muf: But we wouldn't have to would we???

-- buy texas (buytexas@swbell.net), August 14, 1998.

> Muffy and Buffy (with 3 weeks camping expertise in 32 years) each,move >out "there" with Muffy 2 and Tres (Buffy III)... at the "farm" they bought >with the Trust Funds "just in case". > >Muf: Buffy dear, would you please go and milk Bessie again?? >Buf: Muffy my love, it is your turn you know. >Muf: But sweetums, it was never like this back in Plano. >Buf: Well that was before all those Yankees rioted when they closed the >Neimans and you did agree we would leave if it got real bad. >Muf" I know, I know will it ever be ok for us to go back?? Maybe they have >the Bennigan's opened by now or at least a Pizza Hut. >Buf: Well, if that's what you really want. I know the last TWO DAYS have >been really hard on you. I suppose we could come back on weekends. >Muf: But we wouldn't have to would we???

-- buy texas (buytexas@swbell.net), August 14, 1998.

Cherri, your comments about not building a fence near trees & the attempt at ridiculing my comment about briar patches indicate that you live nowhere near the same area I do. The myopia ("my group is the only one with legitimate problems" and "everywhere is like where I live") is about what I expected.

None of your response invalidates my point: there will be plenty of suffering to go around. I will address that in detail if necessary.

As for washboards, why? I rather doubt that people are going to be concerned about a few stains at the end of the day. Bust your own knuckles; I'd rather boil the clothes, or put 'em in a barrel of hot water & agitate them with a churn (I've seen pictures of both being done). If you need a big pot for your laundry, take apart the washing machine or hot water heater.

I doubt you care, but I often end up hanging clothes (dryer's for when it's cold or rainy), cleaning the kitchen, and yes, baking bread. I expect to continue doing so after Y2K. Like Heinlein said, "specialization is for insects."

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), August 14, 1998.

Gotta love a man who quotes Heinlein.

How about this one: Never appeal to a man's "better-nature". He may not have one. Invoking is self-interest gives your more leverage.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), August 18, 1998.

And the rest of the "specialization" quote is:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

from - "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long" by Robert A. Heinlein

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), August 18, 1998.