This forum is scaring me! When I first became aware of Y2K only a few short months ago, after I got over the disbelief, a sort of horror took over... I recalled a movie I'd seen when I was a child: some catastrophe had destroyed most of the world population, and the lone survivors wandered around the empty cities scavaging for food etc. After while, I overcame the fear, and decided that if I had a year and a half to "collect" all the things I'd need, I better just buckle down and get started. I was SO GLAD when I found this site....a place to ask questions of those more experienced and knowledgable than myself, a place to learn of other issues that hadn't even occured to me yet, a place to read other views of how to solve a particular problem....what to do about money, food etc. But more than that....I was thrilled to see that so many others were preparing! I wouldn't end up like the people in that movie....the lone survivor with no other humans around!!!

But now....after watching this forum disintegrate into a garbage bag of nasty posts with people ridiculing each others beliefs, whether they are "religious" or "Polyanna" or "D&G" and seeming to want to fight rather than to discuss what is quite possibly going to be the MOST TRAUMATIC PROBLEM any of us has ever had to face, I have to say I am more afraid of the "other survivors" than of Y2K itself!

If simple words in a post on this forum can generate this much dissention and squabbling, HOW will we come together and work to rebuild a shattered nation? Will we help each other ONLY if we happen to have the same beliefs? Will we work together ONLY if we happen to be the same color? Or is the "post Y2K world" going to be comprised of little groups who war with each other?

I am very depressed this morning.... I wonder if one of the most important preparations I should be making is to try to find "my" group...

Sad, sad, sad. Where did America go?

-- Sheila Ross (sross@bconnex.net), July 28, 1998

Answers

Sheila, the meltdown at this forum and others has sparked similar feelings in me. The only thing that helps is my thought that this sniping, attacking, blaming, in-fighting is a part of a group dynamic,...a part of the grief-recovery cycle,...a stage where humans with no place to vent, or no real enemy to "blame" begin to tear each other apart.

My boyfriend and I during tough economic times for us have done this, and finally at some point both realize, or one of us does what we are doing. Then we point out that we are not the "enemy",...In this case a way to save hard disk space in the early days of computers, called Y2K is the "enemy"; Y2K and the runaway train aspect of "progress" that is. Can't verbally punch out Y2K? Find some stranger who is also trying to prepare

I'm not sure this makes sense, but I have seen this happen on other forums,...it is very disheartening, but,I think temporary. If I am way off about this, at least it is comforting to me,...more comforting than to accept that most people posting are immature, ignorant, aggressive and very scary. I much prefer to see this as a phase. There are those who will not learn and chose to use Y2K as a reason to continue to "act-out". Those I will watch and NOT react to.

My half a penny...

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), July 28, 1998.

Actually I never really found this particular forum all that helpful. From the very beginning it seemed that the most popular question was "where should I put my 401K funds?"

On other forums and e-lists there is animated serious discussion of gardening techniques, power generation, cooking, shelters, etc. There is very little of that here.

I'll also say that on all of the other forums and e-lists that I've read about Y2K preparedness each one went through the garbage posters who eventually quit when people stopping taking them seriously and started laughing at them.

I think that the reason for these problems is that most of the people on this forum have not actually read Yourdon's book. That makes most of the postings here off-topic. The silly questions and ranting and raving can only come from somebody that has not done their homework on Y2K. Just one small example, when you compare what IBM, the FAA, and NATCA (National Air Traffic Contrlers Assn.) say, a rational person can only assume that beareucrats and other vested interests are lying through their teeth and the warnings from the "Dilberts" and the engineers are getting lost in the hype.

As for sources of information - there are tons of sites that all one would ever want about survivalist info. Start with http://www.waltonfeed.com and download their 400+ files and then go to their links, you'll have more info than you need. Or do a search for Frugal Squirrel's page - same thing.

The racists, the religion haters and hatees, the uniformed (and planning to keep it that way) skeptics have one thing in common - fear. They don't want to admit what could happen in Y2K because they don't want to do the work that is required to live through this with some assemblance of a reasonable life. They don't want anything to rock their little boat, but here are all these people saying that a big wave is coming. They obviously are not preparing otherwise they wouldn't have the time to manufacture all this bit bucket material.

I wouldn't worry about them much post Y2K, they will be like the groups that like to think of them as survivalists because they have a bunch of guns - no medical supplies, not much food. They'll make a bit of noise and make it hard on a few people but they'll quickly become products of evolutino in action.

Please don't confuse the loudest with the real.

-- R. Watt (rkwatt@hotmail.com), July 28, 1998.

Many folks I know have hit a wall, of sorts. They know about the problem, they're disturbed about it, and then they get a glassy-eyed look and go into la-la land.

I think some on this forum have done the same thing. They lash out at others rather than gathering themselves and getting to work. But, in their defense they need someone to lead them and show them the way, so to speak. Many who lash out are really crying out for help. We all know we need to get ready, but many don't have any money.

I think many here are also fighting a losing battle at home. They may believe but their spouse thinks they're nuts. They see a serious problem coming and have no support from friends or family. They sit at their keyboard and vent. I agree that it doesn't educate and inform in the normal sense, but maybe we can all agree that Y2K is going to bring out the best, and the worst, in all of us. Maybe we could be a little more patient with each other, and maybe we should count before we type. :)

One last thing...there are always the wackos. Ignore them and find the real meat in this forum. I have learned much here. Many of you have helped me in ways you've never intended. :)

Blessings!

http://www.lifetel.com/y2k2000.htm

-- Pastor Chris (chrisbr@ptinet.net), July 28, 1998.

Which brings me to my conundrum.

Q: What do you get when you have a computer programmer married to a newspaper reporter?

A: A recipe for disaster.

I hope you'll pray for me. If you think your spouse is disbelieving, you should try being married to someone whose paycheck comes from advertisers.

-- Amy Leone (aleone@amp.com), July 28, 1998.

Wow, Amy,...Hang in there. I'll be thinking about you.

Courage and patience everyone. That's what I am shotting for...

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), July 28, 1998.

Pastor Chris:

Now anyone who doesn't think like you is a wacko! Whose name calling now? And for those of you who are whining, do something constructive today to get yourself prepared. You may be prepared with supplies, but you certainly aren't mentally prepared. And what's with the put down about having a gun? That's one of the basic freedoms we have in this country. When the feds come looking for you, what do you think they'll be carrying?

-- JKennedy (JK@webtv.com), July 28, 1998.

JKennedy Cool off. With people as angry as you, and as fanatical as you are about "the right to bear arms," I'm sure as hell glad I won't be in the good ol' U.S.of A. on 00/01/01.

Amy

I, too, am married to a writer. Fortunately she's as cynical about so-called "journalism" as I am. Keep trying. The message is starting to sink in.

-- Steve Francis (sfrancis@sympatico.ca), July 28, 1998.

I think Pastor Chris got it right -- people are frustrated from trying to get their own minds wrapped around Y2K & running into brick walls with others, so they blow off steam here.

The thing that worked to get me out of the glassy-eyed "deer in the headlights" phase was to start thinking about the problem in terms I'm already familiar with -- specifically, winter storms. Every few years, this is what I have to deal with:

• no power for half a day to 9 days
• no water, the pump needs electricity (then the pipes freeze so we're out for up to 2 weeks)
• no heat, the furnace likewise
• blocked roads (transportation problems)
• economic impact (lost wages, repairs)

Do these effects sound familar to anyone?

Instead of trying to prepare (mentally and otherwise) for something that I can't truly estimate the scope of, now I'm simply preparing for the worst case results of a winter storm. Since my family has been through these too, it suddenly sounds like a good idea rather than "EOTW raving" and everyone is ready to help (or at least stay out of the way). And if I buy too much chow... oops! :-) I'm using the same approach at church to get people thinking about putting "care packages" together for storm victims.

Amy, were you in any part of the country that went through the March 1993 SuperStorm? Or did your husband cover the Canadian ice storm? In parts of the country that don't see much winter, there are hurricanes or earthquakes.... Every year in the US, some people find themselves cut off from their infrastructure for a week or more -- what's to say it won't be you next time? Don't mention Y2K or winter storms for a while, then try this line of thought. I'll bet you get a more agreeable response. Then... oops, I over-bought. :-)

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), July 28, 1998.

Sorry, JKennedy, I can't resist....

When the feds come looking for you, what do you think they'll be carrying?

Uh... flowers?

Seriously though, why would the "feds" come looking for me?

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), July 28, 1998.

>Sad, sad, sad. Where did America go?

More appropriate might be the question, where did the world go? Or where has the world been? Throughout history what civilization or group of species has not hung to existence by a thread? The same could be said for human beings at this point in time.

If any good comes from Y2k it will be the full-blown exposure of the undeniable inherent corruption of our present day system. Not just the technical corruption, but the societal as well. We have the opportunity to either destroy ourselves, or come together to finally discover what truly matters in life and build a better system based on the hard lessons we are about to learn. Which does the human race choose? If we don't want to survive y2k then we won't Sheila.

Even without Y2k humankind would have had to change the way they think and live to survive. We always have, and I feel we will again. Hey, if we can get through an ice age, a techno-infrastructure collapse should be no sweat. ;)

-- Tom Scully (2scully@concentric.net), July 28, 1998.

Sheila,

Take heart. The world will not end over this, man will survive regardless of what this is or what it triggers.

Don't be discouraged by the tone here, either. It IS part of a social dynamic that will be played out more and more as the day approaches. And they most certainly do polarize according to opinions. Most of the polarization on this topic will take care of itself sooner rather than later. Then the spirit of our nation may again be glimpsed.

This is a practice, a test machine for some of the social phenomena we are going to live through. Learn from it, observe it, but you can't give up. I mean that literally, your heart will still beat and your family will still need you.

The squabbling here is nothing compared to the utter chaos that will sweep over the world soon. But that too shall pass, and all who prepare now, and those fortunate enough to be aided by them will get through the anger and blaming and build again. It has happened over and over. This time will be no different.

If the worst case is anywhere near the reality, we will all look back at this time as the Halcyion Days. Savor them and guard your spirit.

As Yoda would say, " Don't give in to the Dark Side."

One last thought, regulars here know I harp on preparation. That is absolutely true and it is one of the best tonics for Y2K depression there is. It gives one a sense of control in an uncontrollable situation.

I agree with you that more focus on preparation in addition to the constant debate about the reality and severity of y2k would be great. It has been my experience and observation that once one begins to discuss preparation, one is immediately labeled and vilified by those that do not wish to contemplate the necessity of said actions. The signal to noise ratio then deteriorates.

Cheer up, it's gonna get worse...;)

-- Will Huett (willhuett@usa.net), July 28, 1998.

As Yoda would say, " Don't give in to the Dark Side."

Thats funny, I do not remember saying that.

Ooooooooooh, thats Yoda not yada.......tee hee :)

-- j (yada@yada.com), July 28, 1998.

As you see, Sheila, hypersensitivity about certain words and hot-button reactions are the norm.

I reiterate,...it is possible to talk about how you feel AND prepare. It is possible to respond instead of react. I've called myself a Wacko since way before Y2K, everybody! Part of my red badge of courage,...

Have compassion for yourself, too Sheila. Maybe those that tumble into name-calling also call themselves names on a regular basis.

Oh and one more annoying reminder...

Breathe, baby, breathe! I think I'll like it when I learn how.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), July 28, 1998.

Hi again. My main concern with my non-believer husband is not so much stocking up on food as having an alternative heat source. I can't exactly sneak a wood stove and a woodpile into the house without him noticing. I have a nice cold room in the basement and I can stock up on all kinds of food. We live in PA so we aren't subject to weather extremes or to losing our electricity for longer that two hours, so convincing him we need an alternative heat source has been touchy. I'll try Larry's suggestion - wait a few months (until this winter) and then point out how cozy a wood stove would be. Thanks everyone.

-- Amy Leone (aleone@amp.com), July 29, 1998.

Thanks everyone for the nice responses! You've lifted my spirits and I'm ready to "take on the world" again!

Amy....I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to have your hubby resisting your efforts to prepare. However, concerning the wood stove....could you suddenly become interested in one for it's "decorative value"? I bought a cute red kerosene lamp a few years ago to use as a candle on the patio, but now I look at it in a totally different light. (No pun intended!!) :)

Also, instead of trying to convince your hubby re Y2K, how about just asking him to humor you? I use this method (for other matters), and since I'm "wrong" a lot, hubby sort of enjoys being able to tease me afterwards! (I've noticed he doesn't seem to notice when I was "right" though!!! *sigh*)

I've been slowly breaking down my grown kids resistance, even got a response from one son the other day saying the email I'd sent him with Y2K info was "interesting"! I consider that a BREAKTHROUGH!!! YEA!

Good luck girl!

Sheila

-- Sheila Ross (sross@bconnex.net), July 29, 1998.

Hmmm...They are kind of decorative, when you think about it. I'll put it on my Christmas list. Thanks!

-- Amy Leone (aleone@amp.com), July 29, 1998.