Ed...Why go on??

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Ed...Why go on? This page has lost it's purpose. What used to be an interesting and informative site has deteriorated to what so many others have...a forum for bigots and religious arguements. I, for one, have decided that this site has outlived it's usefulness. Thanks for the great book You have been a big help in assisting many of us in our Y2K preparations. See you 'round!

Hull

-- hull stetson (stetson.hull@usa.net), July 26, 1998

Answers

I completely agree. But I'm not ready to give up yet... I would appeal to all to keep the religious and racial views to the forums that are dedicated to those areas of concern. THIS FORUM IS FOR Y2K. I will also stop visiting, like Hull, if this foolishness doesn't cease. I have stopped reading several other discussions for the same reasons.

RA

-- R.A. Mann (ramann@hotmail.com), July 26, 1998.

I have see Rudyard Kipling quoted here, and the "Gods..."struck a cord.. Can't we all remember that "there is so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us that it is better to tollerate ( spelling?} the good and bad in all of us. " Can't remember the author. but the thought holds true..no? Also Omar Khayyam in his Rubaiyt..."The moving finger writes, and ha'ving writ moves on Not all your piety or wit can lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all your tears wash away one word of it!" Walt

-- Walter J. Blais Sr. (Waltndot@aol.com), July 26, 1998.
Hull:

Now that Pastor Chris has his own religious forum going, I believe it will get back to it's main purpose and that's Y2K issues. I want that more than anything. The reason I kept on them so much was to dislodge the bible thumpers from making this a religious issue sight. The reason I came here was to get information, and be educated on Y2K issues. We all have something to share hbout Y2K. No one knows it all. If this a "trial community of helping each other," let's see if it works. I know it can, just keep religion out of it. Bardou

-- playedbythegame (refusetogive@baloney.com), July 26, 1998.

CAUTION: THIS POST CONTAINS MATERIAL WHICH MAY BE OFFENSIVE TO THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ALMIGHTY GOD HAS THE RIGHT TO RULE IN THE AFFAIRS OF MEN. IF SUCH BE THE CASE, PLEASE USE THE "delete" BUTTON RATHER THAN ATTEMPT TO DENY OTHERS THEIR RIGHT TO ENJOY IT.

Mr. Mann appears to believe that y2k preparations have nothing to do with God! Has he forgotten that y2k could become a disaster which requires Divine intervention lest millions perish? Indeed, if the worst case scenerio becomes a reality, then each of us had better know EXACTLY how Almighty God, creator of the universe, must be approached by wicked, wretched mankind.

For that reason I would offer this counsel to those who want to know how to spiritually prepare for y2k, here and now, and for eternity if we happen not to make it through. There is only one way to approach Almighty God and fully expect Divine intervention in time of trouble. Simply needing help is not enough, because if it were, why would the millions be dying of starvation in Africa? Repeating memorized prayers, wearing a cross or an amulet, or weeping and wailing won't get God's attention. He knows all about our troubles and is ready and willing to meet our every need. But, (as another poster recently said), "we must come to Him on His terms and not ours".

Ever wonder why your prayers are not answered? It's NOT because God is dead or asleep, or that He doesn't care about you. According to the Bible, (and contrary to what some song writers believe), GOD DOES NOT HEAR EVERY PRAYER! (see Isaiah 59:1-2 & Psalms 66:18). He hears only the heartfelt prayers of repentant sinners, and the prayers of those who are rightly related to Him. If Christ is not the Lord of your life by reason of the new birth, then your prayers will go no farther than the ceiling, regardless of how desperate your situation.

If you would care to know more about rightly relating to God, I will gladly share some vital details if you just e-mail your request.

-- Arcy (arcy.w@usa.net), July 26, 1998.

To Arcy:

You assume that the persons who post here have need of your opinions on God's will. They do not.

Please go away.

Sincerely, Max C. Dixon

-- Max Dixon (Max.Dixon@gte.net), July 27, 1998.

Sorry Max... I have a Divine appointment and I'm not going anywhere! You should have used the 'delete' button as suggested, and not 'tried' to interfere with what God is doing. What makes you think that I have assumed anything? You say that the forum participants do NOT need my opinions. Do you speak for everyone, or just for those with heardened hearts and blinded eyes? My dear fellow, you are indeed presumptous. God has His messengers on this forum as well as others, and He has arranged for those with eyes to see and ears to hear to do just that. As long as He allows me liberty to speak the truth that sets men free, I shall do so, and when HE shuts this forum down I shall move on to another. Keep in mind that I did not start this discussion nor any other. I simply responded to a question and offered spiritual help which has obviously lit your fuse.

I have no axe to grind, Max, nor do I wish to offend anyone. I have simply responded to posts by others and offered spiritual help to those who want it. Obviously you don't, so why do you ask me to go away? There's a very simple explanation for why you have acted this way, Max, and any true follower of Christ knows what it is. If you would also like to know why, I'll be only too happy to tell you.

In His service,

Arcy

-- Arcy (arcy.w@usa.net), July 27, 1998.

"So Joshua defeated the whole land...He left no one remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."- Joshua 10:40. People, we got to start listening to what Arcy says. GOD KICKS ASS! And I like a God who is an efficient killer! I don't need a wimpy God like Buddha or Vishnu. You know what they say-"Nice Gods finish last!"

-- Connie L. (Cofkee@aol.com), July 27, 1998.
What "Christians" of this sort (the ones posting on this site) don't seem to realize is that they drive more people away from Christianity than they interest in it...if Christians showed a particle of the respect to others that they demand for themselves --- the entire world would have converted by this point.

I agree with the above - this is not the forum - there are plenty of places for those who wish to hear this sort of tirade. This is not the place. And for Mr. Delete above. In case you hadn't looked at your browser lately, there is NO "delete" key - we are forced to scroll by your rantings.

It's too bad, this was a good forum. Frankly, the people who claim to be Christians that I see here are a disgrace to Christianity -- and I hope that they ARE accountable to someone in the hereafter for the number of people that they drove away from religion by the disrepectful, arrogant and self-righteous attitudes they have displayed here.

-- Chana Campos (chana@campos.org), July 27, 1998.

The hostility expressed against 'Christians' on this forum is not because it takes a few seconds to click and delete, it's part of the war between God and Satan; good and evil; followers of Christ and His enemies.

I personally want to hear what Arcy has to say. He hasn't flamed anyone to my knowledge, or used vulgar abusive language as some do to display the level of their intelligence and the quality of their character.

Per the gist of this thread, let's ask Ed to to personally respond to this issue. No 'real' Christian participant on any forum would continue to express thoughts of any kind, spiritual or otherwise, which are contrary to the wishes of the one paying the bill. This is just one of the differences between true believers and those who make use of the name of Christ for convenience, fringe benefits, and emergencies!

-- Merle (merle.b@usa.com), July 27, 1998.

Mr. Campos:

I'm one of the Christian posters you have referred to. I'm indeed sorry if my post has been offensive to you. Would you be so kind as to elaborate on the specifics? Was my post too long? Did I refer to you personally in some derogatory manner? Or, was the issue simply disinteresting?

As to me driving people away from religion, I must plead 'guilty'. 'Religion' calls upon men to DO something in a vain attempt to merit blessing from God. The Bible calls men to repent and to accept what God has already DONE on his behalf. That which is commonly called 'Christianity' today is nothing but a hodge-podge of religious sectarianism and Christianized humanism wrapped in a thin skin of biblical thought. This system has the whole world confused as to what the Christian life is all about, and I can certainly understand you confusing me with the religious crowd of disobedient church-goers.

My intention is not to interest anyone in religion or what should be properly called 'churchanity', but rather to introduce interested folks to the only lasting source of Divine help for y2k and beyond. Again, if my offer is not of interest to you, then just disregard it, and please... don't ask others to forfeit what could be their hope of eternal salvation.

-- Roy (roy@techcomm.net), July 27, 1998.

Arcy - why don't you PAY for and set up with a group of like-minded missionaries, a forum to discuss what you believe....no one has correlated Y2k as a punishment from God in my opinion, (and I am a Christian) - it is either a manufactured crisis (if you're a conspiracist) or a technological mistake (if you are not). Punishments from God are on individuals, not a world as a whole...(I know, you will quote Noah etc, but obviously there were not any worth saving but the 7 with Noah), and there certainly are enough worthy people who are trying to do the will of God not to warrant the punishing of a whole country/world. Your calling does not give you the right to use a forum which is here for a informative reason, to declare what you think is God's will....He can do that for himself, to each of us who ask. Go talk to people who think as you do and let everyone get on with learning what he wants to know, not what you think he needs to know.

-- Laurane (familyties@rttinc.com), July 27, 1998.
To Roy - >Would you be so kind as to elaborate on the specifics? Was my post >too long? Did I refer to you personally >in some derogatory manner? Or, was the issue simply disinteresting?

Must I be personally assaulted to take offense? Isn't it bad enough that you feel the freedom to intrude upon the most private relationship anyone has in the world -- that of their relationship with whatever Being they choose to worship? It is the height of effrontery and arrogance to assume that you know is right for everyone. Are you really under the impression that people who WANT to hear your message have no other place to do so???? That is laughable.

>As to me driving people away from religion, I must plead 'guilty'. >'Religion' calls upon men to DO something >in a vain attempt to merit blessing from God.

Then let me rephrase it more accurately. Assuming that you believe that Jesus was God --- you are driving people away from HIM by your behavior. Regardless of what you think his message was, it is lost in the ranting - people are tired of having someone else's interpretation shoved down their throat. You are driving people away from listening to ANYTHING Jesus had to say because you are more interested in parading your "Christianity" in public than you are in respecting the individual's right to worship God in the way most appropriate to him.

>This system has the whole world confused as to what the Christian >life is all about, and I can certainly understand you confusing me >with the religious crowd of disobedient church-goers.

Yes, of course, it's always those OTHER guys who aren't the REAL Christians...this is such a boring, over-used response. At least be original.

>My intention is not to interest anyone in religion or what should be >properly called 'churchanity', but rather to >introduce interested folks to the only lasting source of Divine help >for y2k and beyond.

In other words, you continue to turn people away from the message of Jesus. How sad for one purporting to act in his name.

>Again, if my offer is not of interest to you, then just disregard it, >and please... don't ask others to forfeit what could be their hope >of eternal salvation.

You have no respect for my boundaries, intellect or religious sensibilities --- why should I have any respect for yours? No one is going to be "saved" here Roy --- you are just confirming in people's minds that most Christians are arrogant, self-centered hypocrites who have no concept of true respect for other people. As I stated before --- I certainly hope you are held accountable for how many people turned away from Jesus because of your attitude and arrogance. Why would anyone WANT to go to a heaven populated with people like you????

-- Chana Campos (chana@campos.org), July 27, 1998.

Pastor Chris' religious discussion forum can be found at:

http://www.lifetel.com/y2k2000.htm

How about those of you who want to get into a religious debate go there and discuss religion? I may show up there occacionally to get things hopping, it will be really fun! We can insult, point fingers, make fun, yeh, it can get really juicy! So how about we get back to Y2K issues on this Y2K forum? Bardou

-- Playedbythegame (refusetogive@baloney.com), July 27, 1998.

Laurane:

You say you are a 'Christian' and yet you rail on me! According to the Bible the reality of whether one belongs to Christ or not is seen in his love for those who love Christ. If you disagree with my actions I would appreciate your speaking to my Father about it, and not publicly venting what appears to be your wrath.

I appreciate Ed's willingness to allow open discussion on this forum, and I would never ask that he stiffle even the most vile and corrupt language often uttered here. But, if Ed says he wants ALL spiritual discussion on this forum stopped, then I shall graciously comply and not be upset in the slightest. You see, I have nothing to sell, nothing for anyone to join, and I ask nothing in return for services rendered. I'm simply a nobody going around telling everybody that somebody loves them, and you and several others are trying to stop me.

If your house were burning down would you dare ask the firemen why they were imposing their will on you? Needless to say one doesn't ask permission to warn others of impending danger, even if it's just a perceived danger.

I didn't say, nor did I imply that y2k was going to be judgment from God. It could indeed be, but I'm not convinced of that. My concern is that many people are not prepared physically, emotionally, or spiritually for y2k. They will soon be crying out to God for help and many of them won't be heard because they are not rightly related to Him. What is your program for helping these dear people?

-- Arcy (arcy.w@usa.net), July 27, 1998.

Arcy:

Your not warning, you are preaching. We are all well aware of the many different facets of Y2K. We are not interested in being preached at, proselytized, condemned to hell, judged by arrogant "churched," people. You all remind me of the church lady on Saturday NIght Live! All you Bible thumpers fit the character. And the more you preach, the funnier you all get. I can picture you now with your chests reared out, you chin up in the air, your nose turned upward, your Bible under your arm, and a look that says "man I have arrived Jesus, take me home!" Don't you people realize how silly you sound? You know, we talk about how we can't comvince any of our friends and loved ones how serious Y2K is, what makes you think that your preaching about religion is going to convince us that you have it all figured out? Actually, it is you Bible thumpers that have set out to destroy this forum. Now that you have your own, why don't you go there and discuss religious stuff. If you want to discuss Y2K stuff, then participate but leave religion out of it. If I want religion, I know where to go to get it. Y2K is a manmade issue, why do you all insist on blaming it on God? Bardou

-- playedbythegame (refuse togive@baloney.com), July 27, 1998.

Bardou, Why don't you just leave the thumpers alone? Quit antagonizing them. If those who do not thump remain silent, those who do thump will go away. Give it up! Get on with the subject at hand! We finally got rid of the racist Fonseca.(I won a $5 bet that he would post again after he said it was his last post). I went double or nothing on his last one! Sorry Pastor Chris, I'm a gambler! :)

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), July 27, 1998.
Dave 22:

I am willing to give it up, if the thumpers are willing to go to their new sight and discuss religion there. And don't be so quick to bet that Timothy Fonseca won't be back. He's like a pimple on someone's ass, it just keeps growing. Those of you with a sense of humor will laugh at this one. P.S. Dave: I wouldn't even bet a nickel, I'm too cheap! Bardou

-- Playedbythegame (refusetogive@baloney.com), July 27, 1998.

I've been lurking on this forum for a while, but haven't had anything to say until now. I've heard Y2k, the 'net, and our dependance on technology, etc. referred to as a kind of Tower of Babel situation. ( Wait a minute.....I'm not a thumper! I'm of the opinion that the best way to impress people with Christianity- is to live as a Christian. Let your actions speak for your beliefs. Jesus fed the hungry and healed the sick before he ever started preaching.) Anyway, back to Y2k. or maybe I never left the subject...If we let stuff like thumpers vs. non-thumpers divide us now, what the heck is it going to be like if TSHTF? Tower of Babel reference? God messed up T of B work by causeing everyone to start speaking different languages. Seems to me , I'm already hearing at least two languages right on this thread. Well, thanks for listening. See ya., Karen

-- Karen Shirer (kgshire@al.com), July 27, 1998.
Sorry...typed my e-mail address incorrectly :)

-- Karen Shirer (kgshire@aol.com), July 27, 1998.
I see this forum as a community of exchanging ideas and information on Y2K, how to survive it, what to do to get ready for it, heads up news, and useful practical dialogue. That's what I try to get out of this forum. If I want spiritual renewal, I know where to go to get it. Bardou

-- Playedbythegame (refusetogive@baloney.com), July 27, 1998.
Personal for Bardou's eyes only!

Barb, I'm sorry you chose to close out your e-mail address, making me say this publicly. Anyway, you've been around the 'church' crowd long enuf to know they're not all the same! You're not being honest, here, because you KNOW they're not all self righteous, stiff-necked hypocrites. Some who participate on this forum are loving, caring people, and they care enuf about you to tolerate your rude and vulgar grand-standing, and your spotlight grabbing manner.

I don't have much use for psychology, and what I'm going to say is not meant to hurt you or to put you down. But, have you ever thought about why you have such a deep need to give forum participants the impression that you're a tough, take charge, know-it-all character? I suggest that your marine sargeant exterior is veiling a wounded, fearful little girl within, who wants desperately to be loved, understood, and appreciated. You are using every means to keep her from making an appearance, and the strain is destroying you.

Why not just humble yourself before God and stop fighting Him? You need not take sides against anyone, just let God take your life and use it for His glory. You have much to offer on this forum as well as in other areas of life... once the rough edges are smoothed.

Your friend,

Arcy

-- Arcy (arcy.w@usa.net), July 27, 1998.

Hey, do you want me to get off this or do you want to me to attack you like you have never seen before? Quit insulting my intelligence and everyone else who reads this. The choice is yours. If you want a real attack, you haven't seen anything yet. I will have you crawling with your tail between your legs. I have been very nice so far. If you are the professed Christian and the upright person that you are professing to be, then back off. Otherwise, so be it. How about it Dave 22? Do you agree? How about telling this guy to back off, let it be? Bardou

-- playedbythegame (refuse@baloney.com), July 27, 1998.
connie that was excellent! i have trouble with those old testement people using GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT bullshit excuse to wipe out people just for fun or whatever. what else then becomes just something that someone thought up to control the people? I guess that I would like to see something in writing from JESUS so we can use the minds GOD gave us to reason this stuff out, instead of having to accept what someone else said... someone else said!!!!

-- joshua (rambleon@webtv.com), July 27, 1998.
arcy you are totally right, you dont know shit about psychology.

-- hootowl (giveahoot@aol.com), July 27, 1998.
Hey Josh, you want something from Jesus? I'll deliver the goods!..."Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters...cannot be my disciple."-Luke 14:26 It's comforting to know that I can turn to the bible in times of trouble to soothe my soul.

-- Connie L. (Cofkee@aol.com), July 28, 1998.
Connie, Connie, Connie, keep it up! I've got to hate everyone now before I can become a disciple of Jesus....man oh man oh man! You are good! Hey Arcy, did you give up your mama, your daddy????? Whatever happened to honoring your mother and your father? Isn't that one of the ten commandments? Does the Bible speak with a forked tongue? Bardou....Is this the end of it or shall we go on?

-- playedbythegame (refusetogive@baloney.com), July 28, 1998.
I am just so bummed....

This forum used to be really good with lots of good information that even "christians" like myself could actually use. Now it just stinks. It's alot of backbiting and complaining and namecalling and most is not worth reading. But I must say that one entry has really offended me. So here is my reply: To those of you railling on "bible thumpers" (especially you who singled out the "Jdubs" and the "Mormon boys"), do you get so bent out of shape when someone tells you that eating too much meat is bad for you or tells you not to spend too much time in the sun? How about those people that tell you to get off your fat duff and excersize? Woud you say they're looking after your best interest? Or, just ragging on you because they have nothing better to do? Maybe they care enough about you to be a bit critical. All I'm saying is that Christianity is NOTa Multi Level Marketing scheme. It does not have this AMAZING Compensation Plan (at least not on this earth). Anyone telling you about it is doing for YOUR good not theirs! Think about that... and this: what's the point in planning and preparing and surviving a catastrophe (like Y2K may well turn out to be) if there's only the rest of your life to show for it? What's the point?

I'm sorry to post this but the "Mormon Boy" comment was really too much. If you only knew how hard those boys work... Just remember that they are not out to offend you. --- Bet you have more compassion for the Fuller Brush Man and Schwan Man.

OH... anyone know why and 6 gallon nitrogen packed bucket of Granola would start imploding???

-- Dianne Smith (benedict@theriver.com), July 28, 1998.

Hey Dianne, is this the compensation plan I am to look forward too? John provides the only biblical description of heaven-a surreal, terrifying place that only a madman could enjoy: "..before me was a throne...and the One who sat there had the appearance of jasper...From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder...Around the throne were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and back...Day and night they never stop saying:`Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.'"-Revelation 4:2-8 There is clearly a lesson to be learned from this: DON'T DROP ACID AND GO TO CHURCH! hee-hee

-- Connie L. (Cofkee@aol.com), July 28, 1998.
Yes, it was probably packed at a higher altitude.

Worry only when it explodes.

j

-- j (yada@yada.com), July 28, 1998.

Connie, I think what you just posted was a scene from Ghostbusters!

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), July 28, 1998.
After reading this agonizing mess all I can say is a pox be on both of your houses.

-- Timothy Rebman (trebman@megavision.com), July 28, 1998.
No one wishes bad on you, why do you say that? Is this how you react to people when they have gotten your goat? You can't come up with anything constructive to say so you attack by wishing harm on someone. Connie, you are so funny!! I wish now I hadn't got rid of my Bibles, and commentaries. I'm going to a thrift store today to pick up a Bible just for reference! Yeh, there's some scary stuff in the Bible. It certainly should have X-Rated on the front of it. All that incest, drunkeness, murder, mayhem, scandals, it's just like a soap opera. Also a disclaimer should be put in the front "Caution: Reading this book could be hazardous to your sanity."

No one was making fun of Mormons or JW's. It was a story that really happened. Everyone I know who sees them coming won't answer the door. People should not come to your door uninvited. People should not call you on the phone uninvited. These stories are funny, they make me laugh, laughing is good for the soul. They get rid of frown lines.

I no longer listen to people harping on eating meat, being over weight, etc. They are not my keepers of my life. Just wait until there's no more veggies around when Y2K hits. All those health minded people will be eating anything they can get their hands on! Bardou

-- Playedbythegame (refusetogive@baloney.com), July 28, 1998.

Out of respect for the lurkers and decent participants on this forum, I wish to apologise for participating in this disgusting debate. It hasn't been useless however, because we have all had a glimps of what sinful flesh is capable of apart from the redemptive grace of God.

Unless there is deep repentence, these disruptive individuals who mock God, sneer at His Word, and ridicule His servants, will one day be reminded of the seriousness of their sin as they pay the ultimate price for their folly.

Being derided, defamed, insulted, and even physically abused, is something every true child of God must expect, and as you know, it will be abundantly rewarded. However, in the interest of maintaining peace, and affording others the opportunity to discuss other issues, I'm saying no more to the scoffers, and asking others to do likewise.

To those of you who know Christ... you who were taken from the same slime pit that these few now wallow in; you who have kept silent until now; I would ask that you join me in a final show of solidarity with these who have borne the brunt of these vicious attacks. It's not important whether we were right or wrong in engaging these folks, but it IS important that the lurkers know that we are not alone in our stand for righteousness. Will you dare to be a 'Daniel' and stand up and be counted, or will you let them think they have silenced us?

I'm particularly concerned that the 'clergy', for the most part, appears to have gone into hiding. Apart from a few casual remarks along 'spiritual' lines, the pastors have been silent. Are there other pastors who should be sounding the judgment trumpet too? We won't be rewarded for building big churches or filling pews, but we will be rewarded for faithfulness in proclaiming the gospel and warning of impending judgment. Will you join us, Chris, Steve, et al?

Regarding pastor Chris's forum, I doubt that any with deep spiritual needs would visit just to debate, unless it might be bardo wanting to have some fun. The Christian forums are fine if one wants to learn how others feel about doctrinal isssues, as well as to present one's own views, but that's not where needy sinners are lurking.

My thanks to all of you who have contributed insight into my own need of cleansing and committment. I'm not leaving... just quieting down.

-- Merle (merle.b@usa.net), July 28, 1998.

Wow. I have just stumbled upon this thread and have read through all of the messages together. (Quite a jarring experience taken all at once.) I don't quite know what to say... as a committed Christian trying my best to display Christ's love and character to those I interact with, and admitedly failing often. I understand all of the message, theology, and passion of those fellow believers who are desperately trying to share the gospel. I stand with them in their desire to share the joy they have received from a relationship with Jesus. But, honestly, as a fellow Christian, I need to tell you all that the joy isn't coming through in your messages. I get it, because I know it already. But, in my reading, it isn't apparent with all of the hostility swirling around. At this point, at least some of you (fellow believers) will be tempted to label me as a "cultural" Christian or maybe a "liberal" Christian -- someone not quite orthodox. This may allow you to invalidate what I'm trying to say. If you jump to this conclusion, you will be mistaken. I am, in fact, what you'd call a "traditional" evangelical Christian. (I know "evangelical" has become a four-letter word among many of you -- actually, the word itself really just means a belief that the Bible is reliable and true, but that's another discussion for another forum.)

It greives me to see my fellow believers lambasting others. And it doesn't matter if they lambast back. Go back and try to read your posts with some objectivity and ask yourself what someone else has already asked: "Would you want to listen to this person?" (Pretend this person -- yourself -- is approaching you with thids much intensity and aggression.) Yes, we are called to share our faith and hope with others, but when they tell you that your tone is offensive and arrogant to them, DO NOT DISMISS THEIR RESPONSE as simple persecution for Jesus. It isn't. It is an honest reply, I believe more to your tone than your message. Jesus' followers in Scripture did not continue to pound away at people who weren't interested in peacable discussion. "They will know you are Christians by your LOVE." If you are truly concerned about the souls of the folks on this forum, especially those who have been vocal in their opposition to you, ask yourself: How do I express love to them? It seems to me that Christ would approve of us ASKING the other person in what ways we have offended them, and seeking their forgiveness, when we have come across too strong or unloving.

Remember, I am a fellow believer, and I am (lovingly) telling you that I feel like you've come on too strong. When people say that they consider you arrogant or hypocritical, PLEASE take their criticism seriously and with humility. Appologize. If you could do this sincerely, it may begin to SHOW them Christ's character, far more important than just telling them.

For those of you who have been offended, I apologize for my fellow believers. It hurts me to see Jesus' name and reputation somehow linked to behavior that is insulting. His message and claims are strong, and I understand why many people find it difficult or impossible to accept. And I respect you as intelligent people capible of doing your own "soul-searching" and making up your own minds.

It is interesting... in the Bible narratives, nobody who ever came in contact with Jesus was ever neutral to him -- his message was so strong (offensive to many) that they either embraced him or rejected him. I don't expect anything different today. That said, I RESPECT YOU ALL and your intelligence. I am sorry that you have felt beaten on by others, and have felt the need to fight back.

I agree with many who have spoken up...let's talk y2k. If anyone is curious or interested in exploring spiritual matters, I would enjoy nothing more than email correspondence. We can wrestle through some of the difficult questions together. I promise not to lambast you...many of these questions are mysteries to me. Yet, I have a hope that I love to share.

Warm Regards,

Steven Slaughter Chicago shousedesn@aol.com

-- steven slaughter (shousedesn@aol.com), July 28, 1998.

Steven and all:

(Connie - it was a good scripture to quote and very scrary if taken by itself)

I have been (rightly) chastised and I apologize if I came on too strong about my faith. I am the last person qualified to stand up and quote scripture and verse and call others to repentance; it was never my intention to give offense and I apologize again if any was taken.. Enough said...

I'm still looking for any ideas as to why my granola buckets are imploding. Anyone have any good recipe to use 12 gallons of granola?

d

-- Dianne Smith (benedict@theriver.com), July 28, 1998.

Don't use butters or animal fats in your granola, they go rancid quickly. Anything with animal fat is not a good candidate for storage. Maybe store each ingredient separate, make up a small batch at a time. I think the storage life will be longer for granola using this method. Also, with storing each item separate for making granola, you can mix and match so you don't have the same granola everytime. Bardou

-- playedbythegame (refusetogive@baloney.com), July 29, 1998.
Thanks for the info on the Granola... unfortunately and this may be a caveat to others I bought these buckets from Walton Feed several years ago. It's contents I had no control over. OH don't get the idea that I'm complaining about Walton feed... I know my storage habits aren't very diligent and the buckets probably got too HOT.

Also, Walton Feeds Instant Potatoes leave ALOT to be desired. But maybe the next time those Mormon Missionaries come knocking on your door you could open up and say: "I'm not interested in sharing anything spiritual right now but could you direct me to the nearest Bishops' Storehouse?" I find that the Potato Pearls sold there are very good, almost as good as Betty Crockers Potato Buds - another plus, you only have to add water!

Also, at the Bishops' Storehouse even non-members are able to buy and can other bulk food. In some areas you can even do wet pack (soups, juices, etc). I was even thinking about canning a supply of toilet stuff for each member of my family but haven't gotten around to it. Oh, and you don't necessarily have to buy the food from the storehouse to can it there. AND, good news! for those of you who may be worried about it. I have yet to see anyone proselytize while canning, and I have been there several times.

(just an idea for suppliers - I'm honestly not pushing my religion). d

P.S. In the event a Mormon Missionary is not readily available I believe you can find the phone number for your local Bishop's Storehouse in the phone book.

-- Dianne Smith (benedict@theriver.com), July 29, 1998.

Oil in granola? Here's my granola recipe.

Ingredients (note, no oil):

Directions:

  1. Preheat oven to 350F.
  2. Pour oats into a large mixing bowl. Add half the jar of honey, stir. Continue to add honey and stir it in until all the oats are coated.
  3. Spread the mixture about 1/2" (10-15mm) deep in a baking sheet (one with sides; a cake pan will also work).
  4. Bake for about 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, stir the mixture and return to the oven. Repeat at 5-minute intervals until the granola is as desired (semi-chewy after 15 minutes total, crunchy in about 25-30 minutes).
  5. Let cool. Mix in the fruit and nuts. Store in the rolled oats container.

Costs about half of what you pay for it at the store.

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), July 29, 1998.

Diane:

I heard on another thread that some of the Mormon canning facilities are now off limits to nonmembers. With a lot of people getting into the picture of storing, they don't have enough to go around. But that is a good source to start with if you don't know anything about canning and storing. I have purchased in cans (sealed just like coffee-cans), mashed potatoes from Idaho. They are excellent. I have also found an excellent source for powdered milk, you can actually drink it and it taste very good. It's called Maple Island, 1-800-369-1022. Call them and they will send you out free samples. It has a very long shelf life. The are located in N. St. Paul. MN. Bardou

-- Playedbythegame (refusetogive@baloney.com), July 29, 1998.

Larry!! Thank you for that granola recipe! We have been looking for one WITHOUT oil. See Barb, there really is hope for this forum! :)

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), July 29, 1998.
Dave 22: Things always work out. If anyone is looking for a particular recipe for a certain item, I have hundreds of cookbooks. I have some very good recipes for eggless cakes, no-knead whole wheat bread, tips on how to stretch meals, etc. Bardou

-- Playedbythegame (refusetogive@baloney.com), July 29, 1998.
Dave, glad to help. I last made granola for a Memorial Day hike this year... threw in peanuts, raisins, dates, & chocolate chips; voila! Instant trail mix.

About canneries -- the county runs a cannery here, my mother-in-law uses it extensively. You might want to see if there's one in your area.

If it's recipes you're looking for, Yahoo has 43 categories dedicated to recipes.... Hey bardou, why "no-knead" bread? Kneading is half the fun of making bread (the other half is eating it, of course :-). The only good thing about power failures is that I have an excuse not to use the bread machine I got for my b-day....

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), July 29, 1998.

Yeah Bardou, you work of the calories from eating the bread by kneading it before you eat it. Or, like Larry said, use the machine. :)

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), July 29, 1998.
Could we get back to fighting about each others religious views please, it was getting very interesting.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), July 30, 1998.
Hey!!! I'm sorry I ever opened my mouth. This turned out to be the longest string of posts I've ever seen on this site. I have nothing against you folks who want to promote your relgious beliefs, but I'm sure that this was not what Ed intended when he started this site. Hell...I go to church every Sunday and if I don't forget, I ask God , at least once a day , to give me a little help in my Y2k preparations. I thought that maybe he sent me here to get help, but all I found was a bunch of folks who don't like each other very much and I'm not learning much about how to help family get ready for the year 2000.I wish I'd have never opened my mouth. Sorry 'bout that!!

Hull

-- hull stetson (stetson.hull@usa.net), July 31, 1998.

Thanks for the Granola Recipe! I'll try it out at once and feed it to my cubscouts!

I DO have another question: I grind my own hard red wheat for wheat bread but the stuff never rises (or rather, it rises but in the transfer from the counter to the oven it falls - its as bad as a souffle!). I just can't figure it out. Did my wheat get too hot or too old? My be I'm not suppose to keep the yeast in the freezer. HELP.

I'd also like to get ahold of some sourdough starter but I'm handicapped in the fact that I have very little idea what it is and how to use it. (Maybe I should start a new thread...)

By the way, I'll call the lady in my stake who is incharge of getting orders for our cannery. I read the thread you're talking about a while ago also and it was kinda hard for me to believe but I will check it out. Maybe it was just in that area.

-- Dianne Smith (benedict@theriver.com), August 01, 1998.

I think you guys started hollering because you're scared. Well so am I, but we keep keeping on. AND preparing. Hang in their kids; we can help each other.

-- Kitty Burkheimer (usafree1@aol.com), August 01, 1998.
Dianne, it almost sounds like your dough is rising *too* much. Here's a few things to try:

You might want to mix in rye flour as well, if you don't mind an EXTREMELY sticky dough. I bought a special plastic kneading board specifically to deal with rye, but it's quite handy for other bread too.

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), August 03, 1998.

Larry, I tried your granola recipe. EXCELLENT! Thanks!

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), August 03, 1998.
A brief history lesson! ;-)

-- Same Sh**, Different Day (always@each_others.throats), June 01, 1999.
Humm, what's going on here? Is this thread Y2K related? Humm, should I answer? yes... no... well, maybe... yea... na... Hummmmm <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), June 01, 1999.
Obviously the squabbling heats up in Summer when the kiddies are bored and the dolts irritated and hot. This Summer may be a doozie. Just be thankful the infrastructure is up and we're all able to communicate. This Forum is excellent, the archives fascinating, and Y2K is still roaring down upon us with accelerating momentum. No time to slack ...

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), June 01, 1999.

Isn't it interesting that none of the posters (except Deedah) has been seen on this forum for so long?

-- GA Russell (garussell@russellga.com), June 01, 1999.
GA ,

The thread must be linked somewhere.

*Sigh*

Diane

Pastor Chriss web-site and the way to join his Y2K Discussion List!:

http://www.lifetel.com/ y2k2000.htm

(For the Y2K Christian like-minded).



-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), June 01, 1999.

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