The DemiUrge episode.... : LUSENET : Aeon Flux : One Thread

What the heck was that God like thing all about? I mean, why would exactly Trevor have any interest in the Demiurge? It's power, maybe....I am interested in responses, and what is with the scene where Trevor and Aeon are doing surgery on Nader after the baby is born? Also, when the baby's light hits them, why do they smile at each other and then all the sudden turn old? Open to discussion, thamks...x-phile

-- Gina Holechko (, April 13, 1998


Now that I remember this one Nadir did immediately comment on the beautiful blue light but Aeon turned away from the light when she watched it with Trevor. Aeon being aware it was false making her then be in the position of a more accurate assessment of the situation. This fits in more with what Peter said about the original debate he wanted to put in there between Aeon and Trevor.

-- Barb e. (, January 20, 2002.

Darn I can't find that. I'll keep looking but somewhere on this forum Peter states he had a scene he wanted in the Demiurge where Aeon and Trevor were to in a debate about I think religion, and when they discovered everyone else was dead they abandoned all argument.

-- Barb e. (, January 21, 2002.

Darn I can't find that. I'll keep looking but somewhere on this forum Peter says he wanted to include a scene he in the Demiurge in which Aeon and Trevor debated about religion, and when they discovered everyone else was dead they abandoned all argument.

-- Barb e. (, January 21, 2002.

I can't find it. I'll keep looking. Somewhere on this forum Peter said he wanted to include a scene he in the Demiurge in which Aeon and Trevor were debating...religion I think, but when they discovered everyone else was dead they abandoned all argument.

-- Barb e. (, January 21, 2002.

oops. Twilight zone music please.

-- Barb e. (, January 21, 2002.

Finally found this. It's in the column entitled Chung, Neumann and a Line from the Purge. I'm quoting Peter Chung's comments on the Demiurge episode here: "My thoughts on the Demiurge are that it was one of my favorite scripts, and the most personal, dealing as it does, with one's relationship to the divine. For this reason, MTV never understood it, in fact, hated it. It was the first episode written, and the second to be produced, but MTV, fearing that its esoteric story would turn away viewers (perhaps they were right), pushed it to number 5 in the running order. The way the episode turned out is a pale shadow of its original form.

The opening location at the missile launch site was supposed to be carpeted with the dead bodies of Breen and Monican soldiers, much like the second sequence of the LTV pilot short. Trevor and Aeon, sensing that they're the last ones remaining, and with no one around to witness, abandon their political stances and have passionate sex on the pile of their dead armies. Of course, this was toned down considerably. Some day, I'd like to take the ideas in this script and do them right. Being the first of my full-length scripts, it was hard for me to gauge how much plot could be covered in a 22-minute running time. Also, some of the dialogue is a bit obscure, since I didn't want verbal explanations. MTV added several instances of voice-over dialogue after the film was completed. ("You can't hide from it, it's everywhere"). Even so, the episode contains some fine moments, especially in the third act. The scenes inside the Demiurge's chamber at the end contains some well done animation. Aeon's conversation with Celia was my clumsy attempt at writing stylized dialogue. Please don't try too hard to make sense of it. I do like Aeon's line "We won, we must have been right." I also like the exchange between Trevor and Aeon: "There's a pain in my back" "Describe it to me" etc. This was inspired by a book I was reading at the time called "The Body in Pain" by Elaine Scarry, which proposed that there is no language to express pain, thus the ease with which war and torture are carried out. *******Originally, the dialogue between A and T was longer, developing into a philosophical debate.********* It had to be cut for length, just like everything else in this episode". Peter Chung.

-- Barb e. (, January 21, 2002.

Ha! Better not call me the divine goddess of the flux forum in the same discussion as false gods. Going back to the statement that gnosticism holds the Demiurge as a false god. The blue light shed is beautiful to look at bringing a feeling of euphoria but takes away free will, eventually they would give up their decisional capacity to the Demiurge and its creeds. That makes the Demiurge evil masquerading as good. The faces in the drink when the man screams means something else entirely.

-- Barb e. (, January 22, 2002.

Well, I may not be correct on this, but from the way I see it, Trevor is portrayed as a hero (to a certain extent) in this episode, where as he wants the Demiurge to bring peace to the quarreling nations yet he probably wants to manipulate its peaceful intentions in some way as well.

In the operating scene, I always pictured it as the baby's light representing the peace the Demiurge truly brings, and they smile since they feel that. The baby disappears so quickly though, Aeon and Trevor are spaced out, and they had gotten so used to the baby's presence that they change because of its sudden absence.

I'm not that good at analyzing this particular episode, so if anyone else wants to contradict me, go right ahead.

-- TGoodchild (, April 14, 1998.

yeah, and what happened to kill the girl when Aeon is shaving under her arms? All I could tell was that she got flung down, but I don't have a clue why. And what's all the taped down stuff in Aeon's little hideaway?

-- P D (, April 14, 1998.

Dear PD,

I believe that the house was being stabilized by a brick that she was holding down with an outside wire....I think that it is suppose to maintain that Aeon has to make a new hideout all the time and that often may be rickety and off balance....I think the girl fell because she got hit by some trap that Aeon set up, I will watch the episode again to find out!

Also T Goodchild:

I think the baby was about enlightenment for them both but also about who they are inside....and the struggles and desires that they can have and can not have? It's a religious icon that I believe is suppose to make people happy and change them into a better and peaceful people. but yet AEon even says,'NO ONE Changes me!" Trevor welcomes the change because he I believe has grown wary of the power he has and does not know anymore what the power he has is worth. I believe Trevor is constantly looking for a better way of everything, but starts to realize he can't make it all possible because he himself is human and fragile.....

I am confusing no?


-- Gina Holechko (, April 14, 1998.

Trevor seeks the demiurge to find salvation, to repent for those he has killed ('I can no longer stand the sleepless nights'), according to his statement in the beginning of the episode (as well as according to Peter Chung in his very comprehensive Cinefantastique Magazine interview.)

-- Mat Rebholz (, April 14, 1998.

>>what happened to kill the girl when Aeon is shaving under her arms?

Well, in response to someone's response: Aeon has hyper reflexes. She detected an intruder and KICKED her out of the trap door. That's the only way to survive in that seedy part of Monica.

As to the original question, I think that the Demiurge's child induced a drug-like euphoria. As soon as the "drug" was removed, Trevor and Aeon went through a kind of "withdrawal". Remember, even though Aeon and her Monican comrades were violently opposed to this "being"'s presense, even Aeon fell under it's spell for a brief moment.

In general, I think Trevor's intentions were "good" in this episode. Again, he wants to bring a kind if "universal" happiness, order, or peace to humanity. However, this of course is in conflict with Aeon's more individualistic philosophy of not being changed without her consent. In other words Aeon (ie:Monicans) feels that each individual must find they're own path to happiness.

-- Robert F. Beck (, April 15, 1998.

There are a lot of good contributions about this below, so I won't add too much here.

I'm wary of any "good" intentions Trevor might have. Remember that he consistently wants to overhaul the system whenever it's not working *for him*; this is selfish at the least, desperate and power-hungry at the worst. Any attempt to "change everything" with one grand fell swoop smells suspiciously of totalitarianism, which is always suspect and dangerous.

I interpret the "turning old" as evidencing that Trevor and AEon do not last: they are transient, just like every other human. But the Demiurge IS eternal; it will outlast them all. Its power is everlasting, and that scares even Trevor, the capricious soul that he is. As much as Trevor thinks he wants it, he can never be satisfied with things being "one way." This is just like AEon's main neurosis: for things to be "one way" would never threaten her self-identity, which is what drives her character more than any other trait: fighting against that which changes a person by force.


-- Steve Rach Mirarchi (, April 18, 1998.

Trevors intentions are rarely, if ever, power-based. Generally his dream is, as he says "To Awaken the world" ex:he come-up with the no-secrets policy, the virus that creates human happiness, the Alfus-B evolution project. Other times, like with the Clavius virtual world, the serif-trevs,and the habitat, he is just a sad soul in search of happiness. In this episode it is both;he wants to be one with his"eternity within" and he wants to bring world peace.

-- Frostbite (http//, April 26, 1998.

What happens to the girl? I think she was kicked as well. Remember when Aeon is walking down the street and some guy attacks her from behind? She does a cool handstand-kick thing without even relizing it. when she is upright again, she turns around to see what she has just done and who she has done it to. Seeing that it's just a mugger (that's what i like to think of the guy as) she walks on without giving another thought. This scene was put in to illustrate her hyper-reflexes. She kicks Celia instictivly, then wonders who it was.

Now i've got a question. When aeon laughs,then insists its nothing, Trevor says. "no, i don't think so.i think you just gave it away. you laughed, but you covered yourself. why? because your concious of it. you DIDN'T drive it out. It's still here!" What the heck does that mean? why would Aeon's laughing prove that the demi-urge was still there?!

-- Frostbite (http//, April 26, 1998.

Dear Frostbite,

I think that Aeon would not normally hide herself...she is not a self-conscious individual she is an extremely self-assured individual...Trevor notices this change in her I believe and realizes that the Baby Demi-Urge must still be around and not absent from them all ergo we see everyone looking into the television and becoming enamoured with the being and people feeling guilty about the really is a representation of God or religion and the many facets that it may encompass.....guilt, transcendence, doubt, fear, and in the case of Aeon Flux, anger. Yet I am digressing! Aeon self-assured I think in most cases. especially around Trevor, she has to be....if not, Trevor would sense her weakness and would have destroyed her a long time, Aeon is self-assured and confident....matter a fact....trevor is a constant challenge to her confidence which is what I think makes the show interesting and more dynamic......

NOw I get to ask a question about that weird Mutant Baby episode! Hold on people!

-- gina Holechko (, April 28, 1998.

I think maybe the "turning old" scene is a result of the Demiurge showing each how guilty the other is, thus making each unappealing to the other (or maybe showing how undesirable each is when compared to the beauty and perfection of the Demiurge?)

Now I pose a new question: Is Nader a follower of the Demiurge? I've heard this proposed somewhere (not on this forum I think), and there is some evidence towards it; his description of the Demiurge's light ("It's beautiful..."), his possesion of the glowing three-eyed cat (which I assume is a manifestation of the Demiurge, just like the bird is). However there is an equal amount of evidence against it; he is embarrassed about his cat-in-the-box ("destroy it. Crush it, burn it, anything, but don't open it, you musn't look inside!"), his desire in the beginning to get rid of the Demiurge with the rest of the Monicans.

And one more. The odd make-out scene between Aeon and Trevor in the beginning, what's that about? The dialogue is cryptic and interesting, and I think very revealing as well.

Trevor: "Stop! There's a pain... in my back!"
Aeon: "Can you describe it? In words?" (seems like she's getting turned on)
Trevor: "What?"
Aeon: "I want you to tell me about the pain."
Trevor: "Stabbing... Piercing! It feels... like... a nail! Twisting into my spine!" (The camera zooms into his eye... yet another occurance of the eye as a symbol?)
Aeon: "Yes... but there is no nail... and so there is no pain..." (And they start kissing)

Is this all just another bizarre erotic episode or is there meaning to the words? Aeon seems to be espousing the workings of her mind. It's obvious she's a "control freak", and here she describes her method of controlling pain... as well as forgetting about her guilt, perhaps? Is Aeon in denial? Most certainly, I think. She's not as fantastically unusual mentally, as most people assume, she has all the same mental defense mechanisms we do. When something causes you pain, you try to erase it from the mind.

-- Mat Rebholz (, August 22, 1998.

In referrence to the above, this is also another Zen referrence. The technique she uses, putting the pain into words, is used to show that the pain is meaningless... Aeon's assertion that there "is no nail, and so there is no pain" is also a very zen thing to say.

Also, it seems that Celia is in denial as well... at the end we see that she is forgetting (purposefully) about her boyfriend's questionable aspects in favor of their old loving relationship. I think this idea of guilt and repression is the main theme of the episode.

-- Mat Rebholz (, August 22, 1998.

This is the answer:

Oasis are the epitome of all things loud, dirty and rough. Wrong. If you listen to "Blur" by Blur you will find out that the statue of abrasiveness belongs rightfully to them. Therefore, Blur can beat Oasis at their own game and even supersede their melodies with some things unheard of and unique. Therefore, Blur is better than Oasis.

-- The Authentic Aeon Flux (, September 28, 1998.

The girl that died was most deafinitly kicked out. I watched it in slow-mo and I saw the foot slowly go up and kick her in the face.

-- Cliff Leslie (, November 16, 1998.

This episode seems rather.....happy to me. Instead of ending in tragedy, we end with astranged lovers being reunited. Everything is back to normal and no one's life has been ruined. Plus Aeon and Trevor are so CASUAL towards each other. And at the end, Aeon grasps desperately to Trevor to keep him from falling, then he in turm heroically rescues her. They're so darn friendly in this ep!

-- Frostbite (, November 18, 1998.

Lots of good analysis by others already, here's mine: I think it's important to remember that Trevor isn't meant as a representation of evil, though he's certainly done perhaps more than his share of evil deeds. I think he sees in the Demiurge a being that is capable of accomplishing all the good for Breen society that he has been unable to because of his own imperfections and selfish desires. But then again, maybe his dark side thinks there may be some way for him to harness the power of the Demiurge to further some plot of his own. It's so hard to tell with Trevor which direction he's going at times.

I have to say, I find this one of the most difficult episodes to understand. I think in the scene with the baby, it's power allows them to very briefly glimpse the totality of themselves - their lost innocence that can still bring smiles, and the decay of their souls, represented outwardly by physical aging.

-- Stephen Fuller (, January 08, 2000.

I did an awkward stupid thing and put my name into a search engine and discovered the OLD AEON FLUX site...I can't believe that I originated a question four years ago and its still being talked about well anyway...I haven't seen that episode in a long time of Aeon flux but since I started the question originally I feel I should try to answer it now. The Demi Urge represents the emlightened being of existence...and how it can mean truth life death and everything all at once...But humans are imperfect and fail to compare to such a presence of godliness. So when Celia lies to Nader about her actions regarding the box with the cute diety of the Demi urge, it reflects the imperfection of humanity and its need to reach another human in spite of what is Godly right and true....So Trevor and Aeon are in the operating room and turn old....okay so they are in the presence of something so simple and so important all at once....and they pale in comparison...especially such shady characters as themselves...I mean Nader ends up being the mother of the Demi Urge...what does that say about Nader?? Nader is a chosen one. In essence this episode was very religious and hints at the subtle message of spiritual completion. Cue the matrix music! Neo the chosen one! The grandiose Messianic tradition...hmmmm.... old x-phile aka Genie aka Irene Norton signing off

-- Gina Holechko (, January 19, 2001.

Gina, do try and stop by in less than every 3 to 4 years, for goodness sake. You are very good at this! Nader is the chosen one. I never even picked up on that, but you're right, he thought it was beautiful right from the start. The question I have is: About Aeon's 'unstable house'is it symbolic of her deeds sure to come back and ruin her? When her 'house' falls she is rescued by Trevor and resting in his arms says "Funny how things work out"...does this mean Aeon finally herself is 'saved' ?

-- Barb e. (, January 22, 2001.

BTW, to all of you who will not want to remember, check out the answer a few posts above, signed "The authentic Aeon Flux," (and pay particular attention to the Chairoplane address)...then go to the column "To free the forum of this mess" for an interesting cross reference...

-- Barb e. (, January 22, 2001.

Oh, to be in the arms of a man who knows the best time to catch you is when you fall.

-- Barb e. (, January 23, 2001.

Hey--I just watched this episode and noticed another wierd tidbit. When Aeon is climbing the wall, she looks in the window and sees a woman crying and a man with a drink laughing at her. Later we see these folks again, and the man sees the demiurge in his drink and starts screaming. Anybody care to take a guess as to the significance of that scene?

-- duane (, September 16, 2001.

Yeah, but I remember two couples. The men appeared to be laughing, one of the women was crying & the other seemed to be comforting her (ah, the joys of slo-mo). Anyway, if my memories are correct, what could this mean? Last night's wife-swapping experiment gone horribly wrong? ;) Hmm...

-- Inukko (, September 16, 2001.

I think I would be surprised to see a baby in my aperitif!

-- William (, September 16, 2001.

Now, the last time I saw this episode it was on TV, so I can't comment on everything. But, I have to say that everyone discussing this so far is missing a very important point. Demiurge is a reference to Gnosticism which holds the Demiurge as a false god (there's actually much, much more to it than that, but that should be a sufficient description for this purpose). I'm sure this is the key to truly understanding this episode. The Demiurge's light brings euphoria and peace, but it is false, taking away free will. It seems as though many of you are falling for this 'false god' and the supposed goodness he can bring.

-- Garth Gillespie (, January 20, 2002.

What was the original debate Barb?

-- Logo (, January 20, 2002.

It's too bad they never made that scene; it would have been pretty funny in an ironic sort of way. Sort of like when Trevor shoots that guy in the control booth:

Aeon: You bastard! I thought he was dead.

Trevor: I...think he is.

Did Peter Chung say why they decided not to produce that scene?

-- Logo (, January 21, 2002.

AARGH! I feel frustrated just as a simple fan. God knows how Peter Chung feels. I though art was supposed to be cathartic, but in Peter Chung's case it sounds like it causes more frustration than it eases. That being said, I like the idea of A and T abandoning their philosophical beliefs for one last chance to get it on, but isn't kind of creepy that they would do it on a bloody battlefield where the bodies are piled higher than you can see? Or maybe that's just me. I do like that line of Aeon's though. When I first heard it, my brain clamped down on it like a bear trap. That one phrase seems to encapsulate a whole world.

Anyway, thanks Barb, oh divine goddess of the flux forum. I promise to watch Chronophasia again and sacrifice my sanity in your honor.

-- Logo (, January 21, 2002.

I don't know what the faces in the drink meant, there's a lot about this episodes that completely confuses me. However, the sense I had was that the Demiurge, as depicted in this episode, was kind of a representation of Christ. As the episode begins we see him chained down ready to be done away with. They finally succeed in getting rid of his body, but part of his essense remains. Later on towards the end of the episode he seems to turn up all over the place and whoever sees him has a very extreme reaction to his presence; I see this as the second comming. Although, contrary to the second comming of Christ, the Demiurge seems to be pretty his intent. In actuality he brings a great deal of death and destruction. I guess Trevor would sort of be like one of the Apostles, Peter, or Paul, or whoever Jesus' right hand man was (my Biblical knowledge is kind of shaky). Whatever the Demiurge itself wants (and we can never really know what that is) Trevor insists that one must submit completely to its will. I think it's important to note, however, that for someone who is submitting to the will of another, Trevor is extremely proactive in this episode, as he is in all the episodes. And the for a being that demands submission, the Demiurge is pretty passive. It's expression never changes, we never hear it talk, and it doesn't even move all that much.

The one thing that bugs me is the nature of the Demiurge's power. Do people think it transmits part of itself to other people in an effort to remain immortal, or do you think it simply awakens aspects of itself that already exist within each individual and if so, is it benign, malignant, or is it neutral and we just project these values onto it?

-- Logo (, January 22, 2002.

Benign, I think. As far as I can tell, it doesn't have an agenda... towards the end of this ep, Aeon sarcastically remarks "it knows we have it's best interests at heart" - implying that Trevor wanted to exploit the Demiurge and not the other way around.

(On the other hand, you have Trevor's last line: "but it is out there, waiting for us, and it will not be denied"...)

-- Inukko (, January 22, 2002.

The Demiurge is the Godhead, an alien, and wildly misunderstood. Just because you're a deity doesn't mean the humans won't freak out and try to kill you (by beheading) and send you away. By the way, there is another episode in which the headless body is shown. I think Aeon is about to see it when...X

The Demiurge is a noble sentience with a Wisdom that heralds benevolence and the futility of war. That's why it is generally passive. It sees beyond the causality of warfare. It is also deathless. Every time the humans see it go, it comes back to save them. Its energies intersect with those of human perception/cognition. Whenever there is mercy or hope, it is regenerated.

However, the power-mongers cannot handle it. They can't comprehend it. Notice that this saddens the Demiurge as they launch it into space. The Demiurge is crying. The Demiurge bestows the ultimate vitality of life to the dead.

Trevor is so crafty and unafraid of power that he almost does enact the Rebirth, the Advent of Merging Wills, but Aeon's warlike ways scare it away. If you scared away the worlds most benevolent life force, you'd age too.

I assure you, the Demiurge IS everywhere, screaming perfection. And it will not be denied. You cling to your gnostic (dogma-based) explanations, but the only falsehood is in human frailty.

Before you kill a sentient life-enriched/enriching unique being, be sure that it wasn't about to do something truly wonderful, such as raise you from the dead.

-- Day of Brahma (, October 25, 2004.

ok, i got a little carried away. but i've been waiting over ten years to express some of these things. thankfully, i still remember significant bits and pieces well enough to put me back into the mood of that day. i wonder what the movie will be like ?

-- Day of Brahma (, November 04, 2004.

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