Papal Succession : LUSENET : Catholic Pages Forum : One Thread

Dear Whomever, I converted to the Church in 1995 from a nondemoninational church, which, I believe, is in the state of heresy, says that they are the 1st church that Christ truly founded and that the Catholic Church is in apostasy. They do not have even one sacramental, cross, picture in the church building nor in their homes. All they have is the bible and they say, "Sola Scriptura!" They are very anticatholic in spirit. They maid all kinds of accusations against the Catholic Church, the Papacy, and the Tradition of the Church. My point is this question: Was there ever a Pope Joan in the papacal succession? Pope Joan, was a woman pope. They also say that the papacy didn't start until 606 a.d. My faith is greater than their accusations, I'm just looking for the intellectual facts to disprove them. I love the Church's Tradition, Scripture and Magisterium. Of course if either one of these things isn't true, I'll be forced to give up my Catholicity.

Blessings, John Burnham 04-12-97

-- Anonymous, April 12, 1998


You must first ask, are they the Church that Christ Built? If they are truly the Church then they would be on the foundation that Christ chose.

16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Petera{a Peter: this name signifies a rock}, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

First, if they claim that the Catholic Church is in apostacy then they have to admit that the Bible is in error. Christ promised that the forces of hell will not prevail against it. Second then they will have to admit that Christ is a liar. Christ promised Peter on him the foundation of the church would be laid.

Third, He gave Peter, the power to bind on earth and in HEAVEN, and Loose on earth and in HEAVEN.

Only later does he give the apostles the ability to loose and bind, but this is with SINS only, they are not given the power on the cosmic scale that has been promised to Peter.

Why do we believe in Apostolic Succession. Its biblical, Simply put it is in the book of ACTS:

15And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) 16Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. 17For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 18Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. 19And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. 20For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprickb{b bishoprick: or, office, or, charge} let another take. 21Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. 23And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. 26And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Peter is inspired to say that Judas' office needs to be filled, and they fill it. Matthias takes up the office of Judas. Now, don't you suppose that when another one of the Apostles were to die they would choose another one to take up his place? If this were not the case then WHY in the heck did they even fill Judas' place?

Now for Pope Joan. Ask them for the historical proof, ask them to present one credible scholar that has researched this historally. They can't and they won't. I give you a quote from Historian William Carrol from EWTN:

Answer by Warren H. Carroll, Ph.D on 01-23-1998:

The statements you refer to are false. The Pope involved is John VIII, who was murdered in the streets of Rome in the year 882. There is considerable contemporary information and documentation about Pope John VIII, none of which expresses the slightest doubt that he was male. The story first appeared in the thirteenth century, almost 400 years after the situation it purports to describe. Documents not at least within double living memory of the event described(the memory of one alive at the time of the event, or one who might have talked to someone alive at the time of the event--about 180 years) are never good historical evidence, since if a story is made up, no one remains who can deny it out of personal knowledge if it is false. - Dr. Carroll

Simply I would ask for CREDIBLE evidence on their part.

AS for the Papacy starting in 606, ask them why Clemet of Rome, the Bishop of Rome at the time, sent a scathing letter to the Chruch at Corenth telling them to cease and dissist certian practices? This was in 80AD. The apostle John was still alive at that point and much closer to the situation, why didn't he step in fix the situation? Hmmmm?

They will not have an answer to this. You see the answer is that Christ founded the Catholic Church in 33ad, promised that the gates of hell wouldn't prevail over it, and he continues to protect the Church 2000 years later. The Catholic Church has seen much better times, and it has seen some worse. Why hasn't it disappeared like most human organizations? The answer is because it is protected.

Good luck in your search. Keep fighting the good fight.

-- Anonymous, April 12, 1998

A listing of Popes and their dates as pope can be found on _______ _______________ This Can be taken with the previous Answer.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 1998

On the Sola Scriptura discussion please ref to Scott Hahn___________ ________________ __It has many other relevant topics too.

-- Anonymous, April 25, 1998

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