I think a big reason this movie is so popular is because the main characters are symbolic of the larger elements of the movie. I wondered if others saw the main charcaters this way? For example, the positive feminine principle = Rose = ocean. Negative feminine principle = Ruth = iceberg. Positive male principle = Jack = ship. Negative male principle = Cal = pushing ship past limits (or the arrogance that fuels the ship to go full speed into a field of ice in the middle of a dead calm night). Ships cannot exist without the ocean, but the ocean CAN exist without the ship. If the ship treats her with respect, and operates itself in accordance with her laws, the ship and the ocean can dance like lovers. If the ship does not respect her, then the ship will be consumed by the ocean. What do

-- C.Rieger (crieger@rogers.wave.bc.ca), March 15, 1998

Answers

My, my. Female chauvinism certainly is in vogue these days. Would it come as a shock to you if I were to suggest that "ships" can exist in dry-dock, and last far longer without the corrosive and damaging effects of the "ocean"? (No, I am not gay or misogynist)

-- Die Titanic Die (DDalton2@prodigy.net), March 15, 1998.

Hi D. Dalton It sounds like you are taking my metaphors literally. I'm not talking about human men and women, I'm talking about masculine and feminine archetypes. This is hardly a statement of Feminine Chauvinism. It's a question about symbolism. Everyone (and everything) has both masculine and feminine principles. To use a blatant example a wall socket and plug. Re-read the question in terms of metaphors, and then answer it. And, by the way, why build a boat if you're going to keep it in dry

-- CRieger (crieger@rogers.wave.bc.ca), March 20, 1998.

No, Carla, I was not taking your metaphors literally. If I had, I would have called your analysis sexist, not chauvinistic. I just happen to disagree with your delineation. What other meaning should I have derived out of your statement, "Ships cannot exist without the ocean, but the ocean CAN exist without the ship..." other than that you believe that feminine principles enjoy hegenomy over masculine principles and that the masculine principles exist only to serve the feminine? Isn't this chauvinism? If the genders were reversed I'm sure you would think so. As for why you would build a ship if not to sail the ocean, you have amplified my point about your delineation.

-- Dan Dalton (DDalton2@prodigy.net), March 20, 1998.

BTW : Carla, why do your comments keep getting cut off just short of the end?

-- Dan Dalton (DDalton@2prodigy.net), March 20, 1998.

Oh, Carla just one more point to clarify my comments: The receptacle/plug example is not biased because the "male" plug and the "female" receptacle correlate. However, if I were to say that a 220V, 3 phase, 50 amp hospital-grade plug was "masculine" and a 110V, single phase, 15 amp household-grade plug was "feminine", I am engaing in a bias. This is what I saw in your question.

-- Dan Dalton (DDalton2@prodigy.net), March 20, 1998.

I am happy to have you disagree with my delineation, but I feel offended being called names. I think the point of this chat line is to discuss ideas, not to put other people down because they see things differently. I am simply exploring metaphors in this script. I wanted other points of view, which I am very open to hearing. I'm not married to my viewpoint. I would appreciate being treated with more respect. You have assumed that I think females are a superior sex. I think male and female are equally important, they are two sides of the same coin. Yet they each have different functions in the world. If they are true to their authentic nature, things flow well. If they don't, then things go awry. Like the Titanic sinking. That's one possible viewpoint. "What's your perspec

-- CRieger (crieger@rogers.wave.bc.ca), March 27, 1998.

Ha ha ha. C.Rieger, I've just had an epiphany. NOW I know why I don't have many friends, and no female ones!

-- Dan Dalton (DDalton2@prodigy.net), April 05, 1998.

Actually, there is no epiphany. How could any self-respecing female stand to be around you? THAT is why you don't have female friends.

-- Gilded Age Junkie (GildedAgeJunkie@yahoo.com), July 26, 1998.

Hey back off! Dalton has female friends and I'm happy to say that I'm one of them (or at least I think so), and I know of a few others.

-- Emma (foo@bar.com.au), July 26, 1998.

Hey, Emma! Back off from my cyberwife, Gilded Age Junkie! :) We got married on the Anti-Titanic site I kept talking about several weeks back, and I won't have anyone say anything ill about or to her! haha Oh, and Gilded, hon, if you're reading, Emma is an old "row buddy" of mine from another Titanic chat site. No, we were just friends! honest!

-- BobG (rgregorio@ibm.net), July 26, 1998.

Everyone should know by now not to take what Dalton says too seriously. It is good to see you all here again, but lets not quarrel. Dalton is my friend too, I think. He may come here and say otherwise, but until he does, I am his friend. He just likes to rock the boat, no pun intended!!!

-- Misty Chacon (whatever@something.net), July 27, 1998.

Gilded Age Junkie and BobG,

Congratulations to the two of you on your cyber wedding :-)

-- Emma (foo@bar.com.au), July 27, 1998.

We're all certifiably nuts! :)

Sorry about Mr. Dalton. I'm new here and carry a little aggressiveness with me from the anti-site sometimes. If he's joking, then he's hilarious!

BobG...I KNEW there was a reason I married you.:) But about your "rowing buddy"...

-- Gilded Age Junkie (GildedAgeJunkie@yahoo.com), July 28, 1998.

Sorry Emma and Misty. I have no female friends. If you actually met me you would realize that I am a misogynist. This is currently defined as any male who verbally disagrees that womyn are naturally superior to males. I'm one of those Neanderthal males who respects women as equals and expects reciprocity. I'm also foolish enough to act as if this were so, not just say it. When will I learn from enlightened male feminists such as Cameron and Clinton, who have to beat women off with a stick? Ms. Junkie is very perceptive. For a girl, that is....

-- Dan Dalton (foo@bar.com), August 02, 1998.

Emma, thanks. You are a belated cybermaid of honor at our wedding. Please join us at our "real party" along with Jack, Rose, and the other Titanic souls. There's Celine ("Every night in my dreams...") buh-bye....Screen fades

-- BobG (bobg@titanic.rocks), August 02, 1998.

Dalton, no matter what you say, I am your friend and I hope it's not one-sided. And what makes you think you are foolish for treating women as an equal and expecting to be treated equally yourself? Men like you are rare indeed, don't you go changing for anyone.

-- Emma (foo@bar.com.au), August 02, 1998.

WHO THINKS WOMEN ARE SUPERIOR TO MEN??? That's the most assanine thing I've ever heard. Women excel at certain things (like childbrith), men excel at certain things (like sperm production). It all works out, and everyone can equally co-exist. See? This is all I'm sayin'...

-- Gilded Age Junkie (GildedAgeJunkie@yahoo.com), August 03, 1998.

I can see why BobG fell for you GildedAge Junkie. You're one in a million :-)

-- Emma (foo@bar.com.au), August 03, 1998.

Wow! How sweet! Thanks for the sentiments. It is nice to feel loved, especially by people you've never even met! :)

You know...we should have a big bash in one of our great cities and all come together to meet. Except I'm poor. Okay, forget I mentioned it.

-- Gilded Age Junkie (GildedAgeJunkie@yahoo.com), August 04, 1998.

Of course you're loved Gilded Age Junkie, BobG is a great guy and anyone that he can get cyber-married to has got to be great :-)

I've also tossed around the "get together" proposition, except I'm in Australia so I know that it probably will never happen, no matter how much I'd like it to.

-- Emma (foo@bar.com.au), August 04, 1998.

I'll tell you what...someday I am going to be very famous and have a lot of money (I'm a writer and an entertainer...IT'S GOT TO HAPPEN), and when I do, I'll throw us all a "real party" at my big-@$$ estate in Malibu or wherever and I'll fly everyone in and you can all stay, eat and drink for free! Deal? :)

-- Gilded Age Junkie (GildedAgeJunkie@yahoo.com), August 04, 1998.

It's a deal! :-) Can I bring my "serious" boyfriend along as well?

-- Emma (foo@bar.com.au), August 04, 1998.

Absolutely! Especially if my hubbie is there! (tee hee...)

-- Gilded Age Junkie (GildedAgeJunkie@yahoo.com), August 04, 1998.