Should Titanic artifacts be salvaged?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TitanicShack : One Thread
So what do y'all think? Should the Titanic's artifacts be salvaged or even a portion of the hull be raised?
An exhibit on the Queen Mary in Long Beach, CA displays a few Titanic artifacts. Mostly bottles, cooking implements, ceramics, tools, etc are displayed. There are even some paper articles and a tiny syringe! Honestly, I saw the exhibit last summer and was not very impressed, but it has drawn enormous crowds since the movie was released.
Are such salavage operations and displays a violation of hallowed ground?
I must say that I share the opinions of Bob Ballard (and Don Lynch in a recent interview on Access Hollywood)that the grave of a beautiful ship and 1500 souls should not be tampered with. It is like diging for artifiacts in Arlington National Cemetary.
Just some thoughts. I wonder what Rose would have thought!?
-- Jeff (JTrayner@pacbell.net), March 04, 1998
Rose has even returned the diamond to Jack, Titanic and its tragedy.
-- Dan Draghici (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 05, 1998.
I think the removal of personal items and parts of the ship is wrong..Everytime I see that dolls head lying on the ocean floor it represents the fifty four little children who died there, and the idea of someone ripping it off to put it in a museum sickens me. But the cups, and plates and bottles of wine, stuff like that, isn't so bad in my opinion. If everything is kept in one collection, I think it will serve to ensure Titanics place in people's hearts, not just in the history books. Things become more personal when one can see and touch them.
-- Lianne (email@example.com), March 05, 1998.
I agree that salvaging non-personal items, utensils, plates and such really constitutes no insult to the gravesite. AS long as these items are furnished for public display in exhibitions or museums! The problem, of course, is that expeditions to the site are HUGELY expensive, so their will be a motivation to recoup these costs through sale and auction of recovered items. I have another thought, though. I would like to see portions of the BRITANNIC, the sunken sister ship of TITANIC, recovered for dislpay. This ship is not associated with such great tragedy, and it would be fascinating to see one of the engine assemblies, boilers and other equipment restored and displayed. The wreck lies in the Meditteranean and is very accessible. Any opinions?
-- AL (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 05, 1998.
Al: See my post under the "take a trip to the Titanic" thread. It might give you some reference as to what you are saying.
-- Peter Nivling (email@example.com), March 06, 1998.
I have always believed that in the interest of public learning as much of the ship as possible should be raised from the ocean floor. This includes not only the actual ship but any artifacts, such as clothing dishes and wallets. I feel that those who think removal of anything from the site is wrong are using clouded judgement or are just plain old-fashioned goody-goodies. Thank God that not everyone thinks like them and that much material has been raised and put on display in museums. I can only hope that those who have purchased individual items will turn around and sell those items to a museum so we can all admire them for ourselves.
-- Ed (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 17, 1998.
Hello All: Ya know, I promised myself that I wasn't going to get into this never ending debate here or anywhere else as I believe it is a personal belief with different people and so be it; there is nothing I can do about it and rightfully so. However, I will say that the salvaging of personal items (such as wallets and clothing) is, in my opinion, not necessary and defaming. I refer to the pair of shoes laying on the ocean floor as they landed, probably with some poor sole wearing them, on that morning in 1912 and ask how could anyone refer to this as an "artifact"? They are much more than that. As Dr. Robert Ballard said, if you take the item out of the environment that it is in and display it in some museum, it loses it's meaning. My opinion is , and always has been, look but don't touch. I am not pro or anti salvage but to me some things should never be disturbed. Just my opinion.
-- Peter Nivling (email@example.com), May 17, 1998.
That should be "soul", not "sole"! (Gotta get a new pair of cheaters!).
-- Peter Nivling (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 19, 1998.
I think they should be salvaged bacause for kids that have to do projects on the Titanic need pictuers of some of the stuff in there. It may help them learn better. About how poeple lived back then.
-- Michelle Wachtor (email@example.com), November 22, 2002.
I think that these items should be salvaged for the purpose of displaying a living history for future generations to come. For example, the empty shoes on the ocean floor; does it not bring an emotional feeling of loss when observed? Now when we preserve such items, we recognize the huge loss that occurred. This is different when compared to grave digging. This was not meant to be a grave, and suffice it to say, I don't think the person who belonged to those shoes minds so much if we display a personal item from him/her. King Pharoah isn't complaining.
-- Abel Cosentino (firstname.lastname@example.org), February 07, 2003.
As long as they do not exhume corpses from the ocean floor, I do believe that they should take anything and everything up from the titanic where everybody can see them. What good are these items doing on the ocean floor? If you think about it, isn't digging up ancient graves in egypt a little more drastic than picking up a pair of shoes from the titanic wreck? I think everything should be salvaged. Those items do not belong to anybody anymore. They are all dead.
-- Ryan Distelrath (email@example.com), February 10, 2003.
I think that everything shoud be taken up. If we would be able to bring the ship back up, I would hope they would try to. Cause in a couple of years, nothing from the wreck will exist. The ship will totally rust away. It will attract more organisims to the artifacts still down there and they wont exist. I mean I wouldnt want them to bring the artifacts to the saface if they plan on seling them unless its like coal. Cause a bottle from the Titanic could range in the 100,00 dollar rages with some collectors if not millions.
-- Paul Pettengill (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 02, 2003.
Okay,for all you people that think the Titanic should be salvaged are a little wacked in the mind there! I mean SERIOUSLY! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES!!!! Someone said that it would all be gone in a couple of years.....well guess what?!?!?! It's almost been 91 years and it hasn't dissolved (for the most part) yet! And another person (and by that I mean a very dumb person) said "bacause(by the way it's bEcause) they're dead" HELLO!! that is why we don't want to salvage it in the first place. We wouldn't say that it was graverobbing if they weren't dead now would we? Also, someone said that "it wasn't meant to be a graveyard" WELL DUH! It was never supposed to sink in the first place. It was nicknamed the "Unsinkable" for a reason here. It's not like Captain Smith said "Hey we're going to go about yay far and right when we get about a week close to New York, we're going to hit an ice berg and sink!".......would you really think that a captain that devoted to his ship would wwant it to sink and be brought up to be looked at like it was some kind of a cruel disaster. I'm done and THANK YOU for sharing your time....toodles!
-- Qwert "the boy genius" Yuio (email@example.com), March 20, 2003.
i agree, it shouldn't be tampered with because it's like trying to awake the dead. we should leave people at peace not disturbe them after being at rest for so long and if they were alive or known while they were at rest they would put a stop to this. think of it theis way if u were dead would u want to be dug up and be tested for some stupid people who wanted some reasherch. i wouldn't.
-- ajfnfje4 djei3 fjdw,wmv rewiewmn (Sublett_07@yahoo.com), April 16, 2003.
-- johannes spieker (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 30, 2003.
If you want to ridicule people for being stupid, you should first at least get your facts straight. *I* didn't write "bacause". And if you would have read my entire answer there was validity to my statement regarding salvaging the titanic wreck.
-- ryan distelrath (email@example.com), May 01, 2003.
The titanic... just thinking of it makes me shiver but that'll have to do, the metal on the ship was not unsinkable and there goes a ship with a horrible tragety I think that the ship should be salvaged so the further generations (lets say my kids) have something to see and refer to not just a pile of rubble and the cost issue should not be a problem, also the metal (mentioned earlier) will slowly ware away and "POOF" there does a huge part of history can you imagine not having proof that the titanic actually sunk accept for movies out in the theaters well I for one think THAT is wrong so
-- - Christian (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 13, 2003.
Hey, christian, i disagree with your answer, its a grave site for crying outloud, leave the dead alone!
P.S. christian, you owe me a bag of chips you thief!
-- unknown (email@example.com), May 13, 2003.
Ok, 1 thing Christian, I am a HUGE Titanic fan and I know everything about the Titanic. Let's get ONE thing straight here: Titanic was NOT designed of METAL! It was designed of IRON! If it were metal, of course it would have helped to prevent the disaster! But onward, I don't really have a say to all this I can't choose a side. There are only 3 SURVIVORS left of the Titanic. I believe in 2 ways.... 1. We should get as many of those artifacts as possible because the Titanic is slowly sinking into the sand in the bottom of the ocean. That's why we should get as many as possible because sooner or later, the Titanic will be gone and there would be nothing left of it except for pictures and memories of long ago. Also, the artifacts should be a GREAT amount of history forus to teach like how they lived, the designs of everything and everything else. 2. We should also keep it down there to serve as a gravesite/memorial. One of the survivors (Millvena Mildean or something) wished for all the artifacts to remain down there to serve as a memorial to all the people and let their belongings stay. The passengers may be dead, but that doesn't mean it doesn't belong to them anymore. We are taking things that aren't our and never mean't to be ours in the first place. We should fulfill their wishes and keep it down there. Even though their dead, their spirits are still alive and they still own them. What if someone buried something SO close to your heart in your grave, then someone takes it? My point EXACTLY! Thanks for your time. I told you it was "in the middle."
-- Kylie Alexis (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 20, 2003.
hey, salvage every item down there!! they salvaged the kursk, whats the difference??? why should nice stuff lie 4000m below surface!!!!!!!!! ffs, cmon. Save the shit down there and shut the fuck up. we all love titanic. those poor souls on that ship died 91 years ago....ok. you wont even find a skeleton down there anymore.
salvage the items, and display em on a musem!
-- Roger Fredsvold (email@example.com), August 20, 2003.
I agree with Kaylie, IT'S MADE OF IRON FOR PETE'S SAKE!!!!! And since i'm just a big of a titanic fan, and know, like, every thin about it, i'm torn as well. I hope to become a director/actor some day and make a movie on it that'll sell big, no HUGE, and i can get up a trip down there (goin for 3,000 or 30,000) 1 dr ballard was right, every time we go down there, we mess things up (there's 'bud lite beer bottles down there!!!! do you honostly think that the titanic passengers were DRINKING while the ship was sinking?) there's litter, placks, etc., and it's A GRAVE YARD FOR PETE'S SAKE!!!!! PEOPLE DIED THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! be the least bit respectful, and let it be. 2 the Titanic is slowly disinigrating (i totaly spelled that wrong!)on the ocean floor, it's withering away as we speak. We must save as much as we can, not for us (okay, partially for us) but for the 1500 people who died down there, most of them hericly! some day the titanic is going to be forgotton (partially) and we want that day put off as long as possible. bringing up non-posstional items is fine, to help us remember, and parts of the bow... it would just be saving it. NO HUMAN REMAIN!!!!!!!! NO PERSONAL ITEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (maybe one personal item,... just to have a better view of what life was like) it would just be saving the TITANIC and i'm sure the passengers would understand. But i dont know... i'm torn between my two oppinions.
-- ~a girl who cares~ (Bballchickie18@aol.com), October 17, 2003.
Hey "a girl who cares"... Some of your points were valid, but your grammar is terrible. Here are a list of pointers for your next statement that might come into play:
thin (k) ---you forgot the "K"
i'm ---Of course you must capitalize your I's
and i can get up a trip down there (goin for 3,000 or 30,000) ---the I's again... oh yeah it is spelled "going"
(there's 'bud lite beer bottles down there!!!!) ---are you insinuating that previous expedition crews were drinking "bud lite" and littered into the debris of the Titanic. Until you provide pictures, I will deem this as a fallacy.
disinigrating (i totaly spelled that wrong!) ---Yes, you did! The correct spelling is disintegrating!
hericly! ---did you mean possibly.. "Heroicly"
non-posstional ---perhaps you meant "Non-possessional"
NO HUMAN REMAIN!!!!!!!! NO PERSONAL ITEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (maybe one personal item,... just to have a better view of what life was like) ---OK so no human remain(s), that is a given, but what good are the personal items the the person isn't a person anymore? I am intrigued by antiques. Oh yeah you forgot the "s" in "remain(s)"
oppinions ---Ok 3rd grade flunk out (oh yeah, you mentioned wanting to get into acting and make a BLOCKBUSTER out of the Titanic... You will fail. IT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. Who will go out twice to see practically the same movie. And believe me honey, with your grammatical skills you wouldn't get past the audition. Let alone write, direct, act in, and produce your own movie. Sure, novel writers have editors, but which production company would even read a script with such foul grammar? None.. That is the answer. Period. Pop your little bubble my girlfriend and see the light. Only "one" personal item? In your belief the item's spirit would be pissed about this item. So why does THAT make it right?
To conclude my lesson, I am fairly certain that this person does deem themself as a good looking and attractive person, although without any grammatical skill (hence the "I want to be an actor and make the whole movie myself and it will be a blockbuster" statement) In all actuality honey, you wouldn't make it past 5th grade spelling.
Sorry to be a dickhead
Have a good night
-- Ryan Distelrath (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 22, 2003.
No.I't is like going to your loved ones grave and taking his/her body and artifacts and putting them in a museume.I am a big fan and every time I think about how many people died and what has/is happening i cry.Sorry if i offended you in any way.
-- I would rather not say (email@example.com), April 02, 2004.
Okay Ryan..first off I do believe you made a little boo boo of your own. Seeing how if you went back and read the sentence that girl wrote you'd realize she obviously meant to say everythinG..not everythinK. Possibly you should get your facts straight as well before you pick up on every little mistake made by someone else. Sorry to be a jerk :)
-- Sara (firstname.lastname@example.org), May 04, 2004.
I believe i was reincarnated from a person that died on the titanic because ever since i was little i have had dreams about the nite before i knew of the titanic. MY personal belief is that it should be brought up because well its hard to explain i just feel like its a waste of a life time if we let it rot and rust. all them dreams wasted to the sea so they should bring it up egamgen peoples posesions down under claimed to the sea. all the clothes and jewlery furniture dolls even bones. so i think it should all be salvaged plz reply love titanic lover
-- ? (email@example.com), July 07, 2004.
Our family had relatives that died on the Titanic.
For anyone who believes that relics & artifacts that belonged to the persons on board, should consider that
1/ The relics & artifacts *lawfully* belong to the descendents & heirs, not the treasure hunters or museums who have no lineage to the items. 2/ The Titanic site really is a graveyard. To steal from the gravesite is nothing more than robbery.
Everyone knows that the ship hit a berg & sank. Let's all watch the Titanic movies & let our dearly departed ancestors rest in peace. Please?!
-- Thayer (firstname.lastname@example.org), August 14, 2004.
Someone who agrees on leaving things there, PLEASE give me facts about why. I am having a debate in school tomorrow and i need some goodies!!
-- Un giving (email@example.com), November 23, 2004.
i think titanic and all its artifacts should`ve been raised a long time ago,forget bob bastard ballard,he`s a cry baby,complains about leaving the ship alone but makes good money out of it on his annoying books,all shipwrecks he`s visited he`s written a book about,so you see he`s not very innocent either.titanic can be raised,look at the hunley and monitor,they been on the ocean floor for more than 100 yrs and they were raised so why not titanic,i would love to see titanic complete it`s maiden voyage that`s all.
-- carlos (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 26, 2004.
i think the titanic is bull crap there was no titanic .... its all lies titanic was never a real ship its just a movie
-- yweah w/e (email@example.com), January 12, 2005.
Like the holocaust was not real? You idiot.
-- Abel Cosentino (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 19, 2005.
I think that the titanic should be salvaged and put back together in a museum because I belive that the titanic has done so much for us that we should do a littel more for it than just keep visiting it and wreking it more than it is.
-- Charlie Bennett 2 (email@example.com), January 20, 2005.
We learn from history. The Titanic laying on the bottom of the ocean floor is lost history. Bring it up so we can learn. There is little time before its lost forever.
-- Ed (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 21, 2005.