Based on months of research, I think the effects of the coming y2k rollover will be very negative, i.e., potential economic collapse. Should that occur, where one lives could be crucial to their welfare.

My question: Would one be better off staying in the suburbs, with an established "survivalist/support" network of likeminded people I can depend on, or would it be better to head to a small town (less than 5K pop.) and start all over? Finances/career are not a consideration. Opinions please.

-- Steve Zawrotny (scz@juno.com), January 05, 1998

Answers

Steven:

There is a complete forum dedicated to this issue. Go To: Gary North's Forum

(www.northgary).

If you require more of an address, let me know.

-- concerned citizen (clinton@infowest.com), January 06, 1998.

The correct address previously referred to is www.garynorth.com and follow to discussion groups where a relocation forum exists.

-- P. Larson (ptrades@earthlink.net), January 06, 1998.

I've already posted this in another thread but, it is such a fit to your question, I am going to do it again. Get this book. It addresses this issue directly. Survival Retreat is a no nonsense book about building your retreat in the city, suburbs or country. It gives practical advice for deciding what solution is right for you.

Survival Retreat by Ragnor Benson - http://www.paladin-press.com

PS: This is not a guns and glory shoot em up survivalist book. As Benson states (paraphrased) if you expect fire power is going to see you through and make you safe - then you have probably never been in a firefight.

William

-- William Preston (william_preston@hotmail.com), January 06, 1998.

Steve

I think this to be perhaps the central question, if one has turned the corner on the reality of y2k and the range of implications and possibilities that Ed and others have sketched out. One of my foundamental principles is: "Life is not a series of problems for which their are solutions, its a series of dilemmas for which there are trade-offs."

I rent an apartment in NYC. So my situation is different from someone in some metropolitan suburb or exurb. For me and my family, if I don't have some fallback place prepared - relatives/close friends in a small town(who understand the possibilities and to whom I have contributed resources in advance), a vacation cabin, or____ ??? etc.- then I conclude I would not be behaving prudently. I have not reached TEOTWAWKI conclusion - (yet?) But it is looking increasingly bad in a major way. I know of several "mission critical systems" (software, not chipware) which will not be "remediated" by the deadline (you've got to love such obscurantist jargon). Nevertheless, I can't afford to leave my work (and if I did and the worst is over in 1 t0 4 months, then what?), nor do I have the financial resources to buy, say, a well stocked hunting retreat in some obsure mountain valley, but I can plan to spend an extended Christmas vacation away from the metropolis in DEC99-Jan00. Additionally, if it is seriously bad beyond that winter, then a trusting community (even if its only a few families) seems not only far better that the Lone Ranger approach, but essential. But that is as far as my muddled thinking on your question has progressed. Its a major dilemma! What other specific dilemmas/trade-offs on the stay/leave/where theme are others wrestling with? Victor

-- Victor Porlier (vporlier@aol.com), January 07, 1998.

Something I have not seen taken into consideration about possible relocation areas is the presence of military plants. For example, some people are considering relocating to the western Tennessee area: it's rural and very attactive. However upwind of this area is the Y12 nuclear weapons plant, originally built for the WWII atomic bomb. As y2k approaches, I am reasonably certain that all nuclear plants and military weapon production plants will be shut down, for safety reasons. My question is what happens to these facilities if y2k turns out to be a disaster? How many people does it take to maintain a plant in stand by mode? What if the staff abandons the plant? Will a shut down plant stay that way, even if the staff is gone? The nuclear power, only 5 miles away from my house, has been shut down for most of 1997 because of safety and staff "morale" reasons. If there were urban chaos, and the plant staff left to defend their families, what happens next? If you are convinced y2k is serious, I would suggest to take into account both military and civilian plants and plan on being upwind. Please convince me that my concerns are exaggerated, the plants are automatically safe even when no one is where, or that the staff won't leave.

-- Dennis Sherwood (emdesher@iconnect.net), January 10, 1998.

Dennis,

I live in the West Tennessee area and I am not aware of any type nuclear facility anywhere in this area. Could you please post the location. I would be interested in hearing from anyone wishing to locate in this area.

-- Joe Stout (joewstout@iswt.com), January 10, 1998.

The Y12 plant is located in Oak Ridge, and is well known in the area. They even have a web site, look under Y12.

-- Dennis Sherwood (emdesher@iconnect.net), January 10, 1998.

The confusion is that Oak Ridge Tennessee is in East Tennessee not West Tennessee. My area is almost as close to Chicago and New Orleans as it is to Oak Ridge.

-- Joe Stout (joewstout@iswt.com), January 10, 1998.

Why would the suburbs be different from the inner city? People in the suburbs are going to run out of food,heat,water and electric power at the same time as those living in the inner city. They will be in panic and just as dangerous when they are starving. Why would the inner city people go to the suburbs unless they expect conditions to be better. But when they get there and find that same conditions,they will go elsewhere. Where? to the rural areas where people grow food and have wells. Maybe to the Amish communities if they know about them.

-- Herbert Johnson (HERB87@JUNO.COM), March 04, 1998.

The below ABCNEWS.com article is talking about Heritage Farms 2000 Web Site, whose home page is at: http://www.heritagefarms2000.com/

This is the first commercial implementation of my lifeboat proposal on Westergaard Year 2000! I can't personally vouch for this person yet, as I do not know him; but I'm investigating. The concept is one that I think will promote more and more lifeboat building; and will alert people to the seriousness of this problem a lot faster than just speeches, articles, and web sites. Actions and businesses speak a lot louder than dreams. I hope others do some- thing similar to cause competition to make the lifeboats more affordable or if not more affordable, more bulletproof or elaborate. Bravo for the entrepreneurial spirit in America!

(see http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roleigh_martin for link)

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http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/heritage_980411.html

Urban Planner Builds South Dakota Survival Colony

Escaping Year 2000 Crisis By Chris Stamper

ABCNEWS.com April 9

Worried that computer meltdowns caused by the Year 2000 bug will throw the world into death and chaos? Russ Voorhees has a solution. He's renting out plots of land in South Dakota where you can park an RV or mobile home and wait out the apocalypse.

An illustration from Heritage Farms 2000 Web site (ABCNEWS)

"If you're worried," he says, "here's the cheapest way to find a cheap place for your family." Naturally, he plans to open his model community, called Heritage Farms 2000, by Jan. 1, 2000. A five-year lease on a half-acre parcel of land is $10,000, due when the lease is signed.

Dances With Prairie Dogs

Located five miles from the old set of Dances With Wolves, the thousand-acre site will have 500 homesteads. The site was chosen because it is far away from large urban areas, yet close enough to town, the state capital of Pierre, that residents can go get supplies.

"The world's not going to come to an end," says Voorhees. "And you won't go hungry in South Dakota."

The millennium bug is occurring because millions of computer systems and chips, to save programming code, use only two digits to read the date. That means they will think that the year 00 comes after year 99 and start making mistakes. Since the bug appears in countless places, many bug watchers and computer consultants fear bank runs, electrical failure, food shortages and even riots could result as numerous programs cough up bad data.

Heritage's renters may fear power outages, but Voorhees is preparing to keep his tenants wired. Regular phone, electrical and sewage service will be available. Solar panels and a wind farm will serve as backup energy sources. Satellite dishes will make sure phone and Net connections stay alive.

That means that during the worst of the chaos, Heritage Farm's residents will be able to surf over to ABCNEWS.com and read the latest news. Telecommuters might be able to go back to work more quickly. "They can spend their time on the Internet while everyone else is out fighting each other," Voorhees says.

Residents can drill wells on their plots to obtain water and Heritage Farms is considering building a larger well to deliver water and natural gas. A general store will sell basic provisions.

Modeled on Utopia

When Voorhees' two sons told him about potential crisis coming from the Year 2000 bug, he decided this was time to capitalize on his idea of building planned cities. The former patent lawyer says he has studied urban development for decades and has consulted institutions from major corporations to the Johnson administration. "Back in the '60s people were worried about revolution after the Watts riots," he says "Now they're concerned again about the millennium."

Voorhees says his idea is as old as Thomas More's Utopia and that he has high hopes for his experiment. "It'll be a soapbox to work on reforming cities and a nice, safe place for people to keep from going hungry in South Dakota," he says.

Please, No Patriots

For his plan to work, Voorhees says he want to build a community that represents middle America. That means he plans to market Heritage Farms not to doomsday-predicting paramilitary types. "It's fine to have some survivalists, but we want a cross-section of humanity," he explains. "It's far from a militiaman type of thing."

[snip]

-- Roleigh Martin (marti124@tc.umn.edu), April 12, 1998.

Edgar Cayce's psychic readings on the end of the age speak of geological upheavals between now and 2001. These are very well evaluated by a professional geologist in "Coming Earth Changes," by William Hutton, available from A.R.E. Press, Box 595, Virginia Beach, VA 23451 at $14.95. Hutton also writes a munthly "Earth Changes Update newsletter ($36.00/year). He has a map of safety lands in his book. Only areas in SE Virginia, northern Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois are shown as "safe." (I think these must be places where the Amish live!) Much of southern and eastern Canada also will be safe accouring to Hutton's map. You might want to consider the informa

-- William Harr (willharr8@hotmail.com), August 15, 1998.