new baby basset hound

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I have a new baby basset hound I am so lucky to have found a LEMON AND WHITE BASSET HOUND.

dOES ANYONE RAISE OR BREED SOME KIND OF DOG TO MAKE EXXTRA MONEY.?

JUST COURIOUS .

-- kelly (candlemoms40@aol.com), April 28, 2002

Answers

Kelly, I am glad you found a wonderful dog! If you love the breed/color/size or temperment please don't breed for money! I have never seen anyone who bred JUST for money and had a top notch line of dogs,cats,cows,or goats,etc.! I know that's not what you probably meant but there are so many people who are out to make a dollar that they forget to what they first loved about their breed! It causes health (mental and phyical) problems unless you are very selective about your breeding. I am not ranting on you --this is just my opinion! Enjoy your baby and if you decide to breed, please be selective and do your "homework"! Bassetts are the cutest and they are so sweet! Enjoy!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), April 28, 2002.

Kelly, I glad you are happy with your puppy. Bassets are not for everyone, they are independant(read stubborn and difficult to train) and focused more on their nose and what's for dinner than on you. But if you like scent hounds you will love your pup. Any Hound color is acceptable in Bassets, Lemon is just a dilute. There is no such thing, if you love dogs and have the breeds best interest at heart, in breeding dogs to make money. Breeding any animal is a labor of love and money only comes into it when you figure the costs of doing the very best you can for your dogs, and only breeding the very best specimens of the breed, sound in every way and correct for thier breed standard. If you bought your dog from a top notch breeder that either shows or field trials their dogs, or both, then they can give you some good advice on what your next steps should be. If you have a correct, sound dog, and you show her in the ring, or get her to field trials you will then have a guide of what she is for quality and whether you should just get her spayed or go do some serious looking for a stud dog that will compliment her faults. This stud might be clear across the country from where you live and you will need to be prepared to maybe ship you dog to have her bred. Just some thoughts to get you thinking and considering. Join your local Basset Hound Club of America affiliation or if hunting is your thing look up a local hunt club(Call or e mail the AKC). Get some figures on what it cost to pay for a bitch to whelp. What if she needs a Caesarian? Are you prepared for surgery? What if whe gets milk fever? Are you prepared for that? Have fun and do your homework. You might just love the challenge and jump right in! If so, have a good time, enjoy your pup, LQ

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), April 28, 2002.

Also, don't forget that before breeding it is also VERY important to test for the genetic diseases that are common in the breed you have. EVERY breed has genetic disorders of one kind or another whether it be hearing, eye, hip, heart, elbow or immune related (different breedes have different problems) and its really important for a RESPONSIBLE breeder to test their breeding stock to help screen these potential problems out.

I have a rescued Australian Cattle Dog that was purchased (by its original owners) from a breeder that did not do genetic testing and as a result this poor dog is only 5 years old and is going blind from PRA (a genetic disease that is a problem in Australian Cattle Dogs)....there's nothing that can be done to prevent this blindness or even slow it down! I also know of a person with a 3 year old Golden Retriever that has developed severe seizures that have a genetic link (I know little about the problem diseases in Goldens but I was told this is something responsible breeders test for), and another with a 1 1/2 year old Chocolate Lab that has developed such severe hip dysplasia (a common problem with MANY breeds) that she'll either need double hip replacement within the next 6 months or be put to sleep she's in such pain.

Not only is it important to test your bitch for these potential problems but its also important to only breed her to a dog whose owner is as concerned about genetic health too.

A truely responsible breeder only breeds to improve the breed. Its the irresponsible breeders that are in it for a quick buck and many times the resulting pups and new owners are the ones that suffer as a result. Please consider the future of these pups before you ever decide to breed.

After much research I finally found a very responsible breeder of Australian Cattle Dogs that I was very pleased with (there are many out there....you just have to look.....and looking in the classified ads just doesn't count) and recently purchased a male pup from her. He's absolutely fabulously built, EXTREMELY well socialized (the pups from a responsible breeder usually have a very good start in life like this) and will be my show dog. I'm planning on attempting some conformation as well as continuing on in agility, obedience, herding as well as maybe some tracking and weight pulling. Of course during his time in the conformation ring he will have to be intact but as soon as he's earned his Championship (or I've decided that I no longer want to do it) then he will be neutered. Despite the fact that Oscar is very well bred, very well built, will be proven in the conformation ring as well as several other venues, has a fabulous temperment, is from genetically sound stock (as much as the testing procedures currently available can tell anyway) and I do plan on continuing on with having him tested for hearing (very soon), PRA (a genetic test is available as of May 1st instead of having to rely on yearly testing to see if breeding stock is going blind from PRA) and hips/elbows I don't feel that I have the time, money or inclination to breed. Breeding takes up a lot of time and money (if done properly) and unless I felt Oscar was an incredible specimin I would not be interested in breeding him (even so, there are many incredible dogs out there to take his place).

Please keep these things in mind while making your decision......

-- Lisa - MI (formyacds@aol.com), April 28, 2002.


we have two bassets (one adult and a new pup) and a corgi (got a thing for short dogs, i guess), and just LOVE the personalities of the bassets! i have never taken to a dog like i have my basset girl. we, too, would like to breed her, because we think she would make a great mother and would like to continue her line, since she is so awesome.

beware, bassets are, as stated above, very stubborn and hard to train- -unless they are getting something really good out of the deal, it usually isn't worth any effort! our girl also is a houdini--capable of escaping our chain-link fenced yard. bassets will get on a scent, and very often, will follow that scent until coming across another, more interesting scent, and will then follow that one, and the next, etc., ad infinitum; because of this tendency, they can get themselves lost very easily and quickly (regardless of the short legs, they move FAST). our girl seems to be totally unaware of the dangers of cars, so we are constantly watching to make sure she doesn't get out of the fence and into the road. to protect your dog, do take care to keep him/her somewhat confined, for his/her own protection.

enjoy!!!

-- ere (eedeen@hotmail.com), April 28, 2002.


I too am a Basset Hound food slave.

Please read up on Bassets, they are unique in many ways. They develope a hound dog body odor and if you don't like it, look forward to argueing about if a bath is necessary. I gave up mostly. Only give baths occasionally. I usually just wipe him down with baking soda water if company is coming. My vet calls it Basset grease. They seem to get especially oily around all those folds around the neck.

The edges of his ears are constantly dirty or wet as they are dragged through everything. Nails are huge and grow like weeds. They need trimming often. Ears must be cleaned out at least a couple times a month. I use cotton balls and ear cleaner solution made for the job. And ya gotta go deep (with fingers, not tools). Barney loves this by the way. Have your vet show you how, it's not just a quick wipe with a swab. This is not an option as Bassets create a lot of ear wax.

I adopted Barney Thunderpaws two years ago from Michigan Basset Hound Rescue. He was found in an animal shelter by the rescue organization. Someone taught him tricks, he rolls over, sits up, begs and speaks on command. I would never trust him not to run off after some interesting scent (and all scents seem to interest him) :) . He is fenced or leashed at all times while outdoors. But then, so is my Aussie or any other dog I may have in future.

Dogs like to "make" their beds by digging around with their front feet. Since Barney has claws like a badger, I gave him his very own carpet squares to dig on. Totally funny to watch. He bumps his nose on the carpet in time to each dig while the ears flop in countertime.

That guy is joy in a 60 lb. self heated bedwarmer fuzzy snuggler body. He's Velcro Dog, sit down anywhere and he's stuck right to ya. Thank goodness he doesn't think he's a lap dog.

I wish you well and hope you choose not to breed. Too many unwanted or eventually discarded dogs and cats in the world. If you got your little lady from a reputable breeded you were probably asked to sign a contract regarding the breeding of your animal. Most likely prohibiting breeding and agreeing to spay her. I have had 3 very fine dogs in the past 6 years....I didn't need to buy any of them. One was a Chow Chow (wow, cool dogs), A Collie/Aussie mix and now my Basset Hound. Spending hundreds of dollars on a pet is ridiculous IMO. Not that you did that. Just getting on my soap box.

One more thing about Bassets, belly scratching and full body massages are required daily or oftener.

-- Susan in Michigan (cobwoman@yahoo.com), April 28, 2002.



Well, I guess I have sat silent long enough! It seems like every week or two I read on this forum about the horrors of puppy mills and how shamefull it is to breed dogs unless they are top of the line show dogs. Folks, I am a puppy mill and proud of it! There is nothing wrong with breeding pet quality dogs. I have been to dog shows and dealt with the snots that breed and show dogs, not an admirel lot if I do say so. In MY opinion there are many more people who would like a certain type of dog at a reasonable price. They don't care if the color is off speck or if he only has one testical They want a family dog to love, thats all. Sure you could go to the pound and find a mutt (I have several and love them as much a my purebreeds), but if you want a basset then you want a basset and you should not be made to feel guilty because he's not best of show and you didn't pay thousands of dollars. Now let me clarify my puppy mill business. I started full time breeding dogs about five years ago,before that my wife and I only dabbled in it with just a couple of breeds. Then we decided we wanted to live beyond the sidewalks so we bought ten acres and moved to Plantersville, TX. We did our best to find quality dogs and they had to be AKC registered (other registries are very lax in their record keeping and not to our standards). We lived a used trailer house that leaked like a sieve and had holes in the floor, while we had a kennel built for the dogs. It is a cinder block building with a concrete floor that is about 20 x 75 divided into thirty kennels each divided by brick. Out side each of the 30 kennel has their own 15 ft dog run, also on concrete. Each kennel has its own auto watering system and a water misting setup with an auto timer to turn on during the heat of the day. This was all build before we had a single nail put on our house. I love my dogs. I also care for my dogs because, like any livestock, this is what feeds my family. Yes, I'm sure there are puppy mills out there that are deplorable, I personally have never seen one, except on the news, but I have also seen on the news stories about horses and cattle that have been starved to death. Now in answer to your question, Yes you can make EXTRA money breeding dogs. I do not recomend it to the degree that we are doing it (I had no idea how much work it would be)but... If you do the math - I usually get around $300 to $400 dollars for a basset. Normal litter for a basset is 8-10 pups. A female (I hate to call them bitch) will come into season twice a year, that would give you the potental of an extra $8,000 a year if you had two females your looking at $16,000. I would be willing to bet that most any homestead has 2-3 dogs as pets. You can love a dog that will make you money just much as a dog that doesn't.

-- Ken in Texas (palooza98@ev1.net), April 28, 2002.

Ken , I have a big problem with puppy mills .See I am a responsible breeder who gets to deal with people after they have spent tons of money on a puppy from a mill .No genetic testing no guarentees .Yes they pay more for a puppy from me .But my dogs are tested and clear of genetic faults {hip,heart and eye clear} They sign a contract , my pups cannot be bred .If they have a problem they come back to me .I will replace a pup and allow them to keep pup 1. Every puppy is not show quality so those are sold as pets.If you came to me with a dog at age 6 that had a problem I would stand behind it , not run and say not my problem .I am there to help with any problems , and if needed will always take a pup back.as far as I am concerned I have no use for puppy mills or the people who run them .It is nothing to be proud of .I truely would reconsider calling myself a puppy mill.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 28, 2002.

Hey Ken, wish you'd come here to KY and build my dogs a place like that! he he I spent a month putting up a big building just for my dogs. Had to have a safe place in the storms, cool in the summers and warm in the winter. We're putting a wood stove in there in the fall. My dogs are spoiled and loved also. We have Border Collies, and have sold pups for a long time now.

Kelly, give that pup a kiss for me. Glad you found the baby you wanted.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), April 28, 2002.


Kelly no one who breeds for love of the breed really makes money. breeding to make money is why dobermans as a breed got screwed up in the late 60's & early 70's. right now labs, rotties and all the bull & terrier breeds are getting screwed up bad because every leroy & billy bob is trying to make a quick buck. most of them are breeding two pups they got from the same litter and what they now about genetics & responsible breeding you could print in big block letters on my thumbnail. if you are going to breed dogs do it because you love the breed and want to improve on it. just because a dog is beautiful doesn't make it good stock. if that were true dalmations would be seen at field tials. the show fancy's fixation on looks is the reason owners of leopard dogs and other good working breeds have fought against AKC recognition. good dogs are expensive because it takes alot of work to get them that way. NALC registered leopard pups can be had for as little as $50 dollars but a 4 yr old rig dog that can find the only hog in a sq mile can sell for thousands and not even be purebred (the guy selling it is probably still losing a few grand). if you want to breed for show your pup has to have good confirmation and dominant genes so it will pass on that confirmation. if you are breeding for working ability it take a few years of hard work before you will even know if the dog is good enough. please enjoy your beautiful pup but don't breed unless its for the right reasons.

-- Pops (pops762@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

I have worked for years to get the lines I do have .I have spent lots of time and money to get to this point .All my dogs are tested for all genetic diseases and unless clear they are not bred.To give you an example , before I started with limited registration I had sold a bitch puppy {pet quality} who the new owner said they only wanted a pet .They went on to breed her without clearences to a horrible stud dog .The resulting pups looked like something from Dr.Suess .This person then took a pup in the show ring .Well people where thinking this was one of mine ! No clearances and so far from breed standard it was funny . So with 1 stupid person lots of my time and work went down the drain.If someone is up front and honest , they want to show and breed I will sell the pup on limited with my name on the papers.Once all clearences are done I will change the papers.This way I know only the best of mine are being bred.After all no one has to buy from me . All this info is given up front .

>From: Candlemoms40@aol.com >To: fodfarms@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: Response to new baby basset hound >Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:42:13 EDT > >what gives you the right to not let someone breed a dog you sell them > >You breed them? Im just courious ... >kelly

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.



Well anything to think of is puppymills don't give a crap about temperment .Do you want to be responsible for the pup you sell that bites o kills a child ? Not me .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

BE CAREFUL OF BLOAT I lost my first Basset Hound from it and sometimes I worry sick about this one. Never feed spagetti that is what got our precious Cleo. It is a horrible disease that kills them quickly. I took the other one in constantly and was told he had indigestion not to worry!. Well now he is dead and we feel horrible. This one (sleeping next to the computer) seemed to have a sick stomach last night so I sat up with her with bloat medicine. I guess I would treat her the way you treat the sheep, except I have never experienced bloat in our sheep. Basset Hounds are at a high risk for bloat. Never new that until Cleo died from it. I wouldn't buy another Bassett because they seem to have all kinds of problems like I mentioned Bloat, smelling horrible, skin problems, allergies (had to give Cleo shots daily for that and he was only 6 when he died) they're good for nothing but loving, which we do.

-- debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), April 29, 2002.

Well gee Patty! three posts, must have really pushed your button! This is just the kind of SNOT attitude I was talking about. What makes you think I do not breed to the highest standards in the pet quality range? What makes you think I do not stand behind the puppies I sell? I have spent untold thousands, probably into the hundreds, buying the best quality I could find and not have to deal with people like you. What other people do with their pet is their business. Oh what a shame that sombody might talk about you. I think all that co- owner crap stinks. You take my money, I take your dog, end of story. What a snot! By the way I have never had a dissatisfied customer, quite the contrary, I have many, many referals and repeat customers. I am a puppy mill in the sense that I breed to sell puppys, but my dogs get the very best of care. The dog show people I have dealt with give lip service to the notion of breeding to improve the breed standard, but in reality they just want to narrow the field so they can win more ribbons. Hey anybody want a puppy? Last night was a banner night! We had a litter of French Bulldogs, Bassets, Min-Pins, and Poms! All are guaranteed against everthing except getting hit by a truck. Sold only with the understanding that they will not be made to perform in dog shows, wouldn't want them to associate with THAT crowd.

-- Ken in Texas (palooza98@ev1.net), April 29, 2002.

Well Ken what made me think you do no genetic testing and do not stand behind your pups is you said you where a puppy mill ! You did not mention anything else did you ? Call me what you like I do not want to be the one who stand there with a family when there dogs is put to sleep because of genetic defects, and i do not want to ever get a phone call that one of my pups bite someones child.As far as people talking about me you are damn right .I am proud of the dogs I produce and am not going to let some idiot who is out for the money screw it up.I highly doubt you have the best stock , because breeders with the best stock sell with limited registration just as i do .Would you mind showing me up to date records of your dogs clearences , shots ,maybe not show wins but how about obedience,good citizen tests ? How about your contracts ? Well have you replaced a 6 year old dog that died of cancer because you believe the buyer should have gotten at least 10 years from the dog ? Well I do at no cost .Have you taken back dogs {full gown} for any reason ? I do. Are you there at anytime to help with problems? I am .How about obedience problems , every take several of your weekends and go to the customers house to help solve problems ? Guess what I have .Yes some show people are snotts , most love the breed and do it for the love of the breed .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

I don't sell with breeder contracts or limited registrations. If I buy the dog, it's my dog. I don't agree with all that either. Just means more money. We don't have pet/show pups. We have working dogs. Good family pets, companions, frisbee, agility dogs, whatever they want them to be. I stand behind my dogs. I have tons of referrals. I tell show people that I won't sell them any of my pups either, or breed any of their dogs. AKC wants all the good working BC's in their registry, and those of us who are ABCA refuse to comply and give them our good bloodlines. Those are Barbie Collies, they don't even look like a Border Collie. There are many, many good BC's registered AKC, but that is only so they can run in the big league Agility Trials, not the show ring.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), April 29, 2002.


Ken The factthat you breed your bitches twice a year and expect them to generate $8000 a year in income is the reason folks would asssume you are a puppy mill. Last year I was one of the top 10 breeders of AmStaffs in the country, not because I breed a lot of litters (only 2) but because more that 50% of those puppys are now finished champions. I sell pet pups with limited registration and make sure they are not bred as does Patty. My breed has been destroyed by back yard breeders trying to make a buck. After my show expenses, proper medical care and top quality food, plus keeping all pups until they are 10 weeks old (fully vaccinated, wormed, health tested), I don't make money in the breed (especially after you add my rescue expenses). Maybe you are a reputable breeder, but unless you are breeding finished champions, breeding a bitch only once a year with a max of 5 litters, health testing and giving health guarantees, then I doubt you are.

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

Kelly, I am glad you bought for the right reasons, hopefully the breeder bred for the right reasons.I have seen the families with crying children because the puppy mill puppy had to be put down at 6 months from genetic defects .I have seen the people who had to put down the puppy mill pup because it was ill tempered .I have seen loveing family spend 7,000 trying to say a dog .The vet's sister was a human Dr and he even brought her in to help. It would kill me if you bought a puppy from me and it had one of those problems .I have worked very hard not to have them .I will not allow someone to mess up my hard work because they are out to make a fast dollar, that is why I sell one limited registration.By the way my puppy prices are more than a puppy mill but well worth it in peace of mind.I also hope you did your homework on Bassetts , they are not for everyone .My neighbors have 5 nice dogs , but not always the brightest.

Cindy , you bring up a great point AKC means nothing .Look for a dog with clearences and obedience or working titles if not interested in show .All my akc champs also have an obedience title and some also have field titles.

At this point the only way to test for hip problems is ofa or upenn .It is the only way we have now .Just because a dog doesn't show signs of hip problems doesn't mean it has good hips.Same with eye,elbow, and heart problems.testing and having clearences isn't 100% but it is the best we have now.I can sleep at night knowing I did all I could to produce healthy puppies.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.


Oh, and I do sell pups at a reasonable price. I belive that I would rather sell my pups for less so that folks will buy them rather than encourage them to get a cheap pup for less from a back yard breeder. That only causes more problems for my breed. If your dogs are kept in a clen environ, tested for genetic problems and sold with guarantees I would suggest you call your self a professional breeder rather than a puppy mill. They are hell on earth for the dogs that 'live' in them.

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

Oh my heart rejoices to know there are so many philanthropists out there who ONLY breed for the sake of the breed and money has nothing to do with it! Oh puuulease! Why, maybe your dogs ought to be free of charge, you certainlly wouldn't want the stigmata of puppy mill on you.

You know when I watch dog shows and I see all the cute little dogs on a leash I can't help but think that the dog is saying to the crowd "Hey look everyone, my human has the biggest butt in the ring.

And now a golden oldie from the past

My dog's better than your dog

My dog's better than yours

My dog's better cause he eats ken-al-ration

My dog's better than yours.

I thank you

-- Ken in Texas (palooza98@ev1.net), April 29, 2002.


I certainly hope I don't have the biggest butt out there! And we do come close to giving our pups away for nothing after the time and expense involved in producing quality pups. I have, right now sleeping at my feet, a 6 month old dog puppy that I have kept for this long because he was a bit mouthy and I wanted to make sure this was corrected before he went into a home. I have spent the last 6 months socializing and training this dog so that he will be a joy to those who purchase him. He has been vet checked, has all his vaccinations and is castrated. Selling him for $300 won't come near to re-couping his cost, but I know this dog will be an excellent example of his breed in the future. Kennel raised pups cannot come near to the amount of time and attention he has recieved. I also only breed two dogs if I want to keep a pup from that breeding, not because shes old enough and I have a male around and geez, I could make a few thou. If there is a whelping difficulty I could end up with an expensive surgery, no pups and possibly no bitch. If you dogs are important members of your family you don't take risks like that for cash.

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

Well Ken , thankyou you made a complete ass out of yourself and I did not have to ! Sorry Kelly your happy annocement has been turned into this .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

congratulations on finding your special dog kelly.........as for the rest of you.............where the heck are Shannon and Kathy.........this looks like a thread right down their aisle!!!!

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 29, 2002.

By the way is there a reason you had a stupid poem instead of answering my questions ? If you breed such good dogs and are such a good person you should not have a problem showing us copies of your clearances ,health records ,and such.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 29, 2002.

I thought it was a cute poem. touchy, touchy! And yes kelly congrats on the puppy. I have been looking for a lemon and white for a long time. I guess most top breeder think it's "Just a dilute" but since I'm not a top breeder and ain't got the class, I think they are the prettiest of all colors. Let me know if you breed her, I would be interested in a lemon.

-- Ken in Texas (palooza98@ev1.net), April 29, 2002.

Well, since Patty brought up the subject..if all the Border Collies in the world were AKC, and they only bred the OFA-Penn Hip results of very excellent, tight hips, then sad to say, the Border Collie would be no more. What is good for one breed is not necessarally good for all breeds. Why do you think the BC is so agile and turns quick?

To think my dogs are not excellent working dogs and pets because I am not turning out "finished champions" is just another example of the difference. We have no conformation classes. We don't do conformation. A Border is bred for keen eye, alertness, agility, stance and disposition. And of course healthy.

We are all speaking of apples and oranges here, we don't breed for the same results. We are of different dog worlds. What's good for your breed will hurt mine, and maybe vice versa. Show people and performance or pet people are not at all on the same planet. Just because we don't do what the show people do does not make us bad. Slinging all these accusations at us "unprofessionals" is unfounded. And what in the world is wrong with a kid having a pet anyway! This is America. Where every kid has a dog!

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), April 29, 2002.


Yeah, What she said.

-- Ken in Texas (palooza98@ev1.net), April 29, 2002.

Ken , still not answering my questions , but hey I had a couple of days to cool off.If someone is foolish enough not to do there homework and buy from a puppy mill than I guess that's there fault.Cindy , please don't think anything in this post has anything to do with you.I know you take good cae of you dogs , and produce nice pups .I think you have also mentioned taking some back for whatever reason .Your main eason for having them is not money and you don't have a million breeds.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), May 01, 2002.

See now, I don't entirely agree Cindy....(sorry I'm jumping in here so late.....I was just now able to hop back on). I think that to a large extent that conformation people and working people ARE essentially looking for the same thing. A dog with poor conformation is not likely to be able to work for long regardless of how much instinct he/she has. Genetically healthy dogs are what we're all essentially looking for.

Yes, I do plan on showing my ACD pup in conformation BUT that's just something I thought I'd like to try out. #1 on my list was a healthy dog with a good temperment. The fact that he is already showing signs of natural herding instinct is a definite plus however (and something I was hoping for too).

No Ken, I didn't pay thousands for this guy......I paid less for him than I would a puppy mill pup!

No, I am not a snob either.....I've spent all my life rescuing/placing/fostering/adopting rescued dogs (basically picking up the pieces for the irresponsible breeders out there).....the ones that people dump to the side. I spent a lot of time working out the 'bugs' in these dogs in order to make sure they had every chance of keeping their new home and I'm even willing to take any back that don't work out (only one has ever come back and it was the result of a death in the family). This is my very FIRST puppy purchase.....EVER! This time I just wanted to make sure I got a dog I could attempt all these new things I've been getting interested in (agility, obedience, herding, tracking, conformation, weight pulling) since the rescue that I'd hoped to do all that with is going blind.

Not everyone wants a dog for the same reasons. A person breeding for working stock will still likely come up with pups that would work best in a pet home or maybe even a conformation home (the same thing goes for a conformation breeder.....they may wind up with some working pups and some pet pups along with their conformation prospects) or they may not, but the potential is there because the goal is to breed HEALTHY, GOOD QUALITY dogs.

Ken I think the impression that you do not breed good quality dogs probably also came out of your comment regarding some people not caring if their dog only has one testicle....well, if that's a common thing then its likely you DO have a problem with the quality of your dogs. My parents had a Lhasa that was purchased by my sister from a puppy mill associated pet store.....that dog had a TERRIBLE temperment, awful allergies, a serious thyroid condition and a heart murmur. THIS is the type of thing that makes people question the quality of puppy mill puppies. What do you do to prevent this type of pup from coming out of your kennels Ken?

I've also suffered from the effects of a back yard breeder. A pup that I rescued years ago and decided to keep (he was too fearful and I was worried about placing him) had to be put down 2 years ago because he bit me in the face (shredding my upper lip). Where was the breeder when I was able to track him down to let him know that this dog had developed brain tumors that turned him in to an aggressive dog (I did this thinking that this breeder would want to know)? He didn't care.....his comment? "Damn.....sounds just like his mom". He'd gotten 12 litters of pups out of this dog!!!! I wonder how many other people had to have surgery like me to repair bite damage.

A responsible breeder doesn't have to be breeding for working dogs or conformation dogs.....heck, they can be breeding for pets. What makes them responsible is the fact that they are willing to do what it takes to attempt to prevent the genetic disorders inherent in their breed, that they are willing to take responsibility for the pups they produce whether the pups wind up with a poor attitude/health or are just no longer wanted by the family that purchased them and that they put in the necessary time to be sure these pups are well socialized so the pups have the best possible preparation for their new lives. Heck, for my money mine even comes with puppy sitting service! ;o)

-- Lisa - MI (formyacds@aol.com), May 01, 2002.


Lisa , gotta love those ACd's .I have a female who was 1 in March.I love her to death and will probally never be without one again.She has a good temperment but will guard her home , kids, and stock.She no longer herds the kids .She is soooo smart and a blast to work with !At 6 weeks she went face to face with a angus bull , talk about guts .Her dad is a champion with herding titles her mom is out of a well known herding kennel .She amazes me everytime I watch her work .I researched the breed for months before I purchased her .I had a pup reseved before the bitch even got pregnant .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

I have no problem with performance dogs. The trouble is that I can't breed my dogs for the 'performance ' they were orignally designed for. Sure, my dogs are'game' enough, but they have to live with other dogs, livestock and people. If I was breeeding performance APBT, you folks would be all over me for rolling dogs. I show conformation, agility and obedience because thats what is available to me. Health and temperment are the number one criteria for me, but a good show dog is also important. Given the choice between homely w/ex temperment & health and to standard w/ex temp & health, I'm going for the standard dog. There is no need to breed for pet quality. There will be pet quality pups in that litter, along with the show quality. They will go to approved homes at a reasonable price, not to who ever shows up first with the cash. I have a responsibility to EVERY pup I bring into this world and will take him/her back at any time in its life. A puppy mill that breeds 100's of dogs a year cannot possibly provide the same service. So if your breeding for performance or conformation, so long as you breed with ethics and notjust for money I think we are on the same page.

BTW, oddly enough I just got in a Basset and a Basset cross to my rescue today!

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.


Boy Dianne are you in for a shock if you haven't dealt with bassetts .Hehe.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

So what is an AmStaff origionally bred for? Didn't understand what you were saying, rolling dogs?

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), May 02, 2002.

AmStafs are the AKC version of the Pit Bull Terrier, rolling is aterm used for sparing dogs, matching would be the term for fighting. I do neither of these, but I rescue all Bull & Terrier breeds so I have had to become familiar with them.

The Bassets I got in have been outside dogs. The female is two, purebred, male is 5 mixed with what I believe to be springer. I have a nice big fenced area for them, similar to their old housing. Former owner said they were not diggers, hope that is true. Nice sweet dogs, seem to have bonded to me already. I already have had an inquiry on the female. Hope they get placed soon.

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.


So what were Pit Bulls origionally bred for?

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), May 02, 2002.

Lisa, none of my pups could end up in a conformation home. Those AKC BC's are very, very small like a minature collie, have very long hair like lassie, and just don't look like our dogs. There is no ABCA show anywhere for conformation, it just isn't there. None of the BC registries have conformaton, only trialing champions. ABCA, ISDS, NASD AND IBCA is about working dogs, and never has been involved in conformation. My dogs and pups do not fit into the AKC class of BC. That is why we are trying to get them to at least change the name of the AKC BC. It is really about 2 very different breeds of dogs that don't even look alike at all.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), May 02, 2002.

Pit Bulls were bred for Bull Baiting, then later pit fighting. They are also the best overall homestead dog, very protective, keep varmants away (animal & human LOL). They were the number one breed of dog in this country between the 2 world wars. Unfortunately they have been taken on as a status of toughness and used against their true nature as they are not naturally aggressive towards people.

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

Most working dogs vary from the conformation standard to some degree. A working Setter or Spaniel couldn't maintain the coat necessary for the show ring, but I do know of many dogs that get feild titles after completeing their confirmation championship. Also, most working dogs would be over weight at show weight, especially labs.

-- Dianne (yankeeterrier@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

What in the world is bull baiting? Really, I don't know. It sounds dangerous for the dog for sure.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), May 02, 2002.

Sorry to interrupt everybody's puppy mill rants, but the akc and show people have done their part to mess up a lot of breeds too, my friends... not by mass breedin maybe, but by only only caring about what their dogs look like and not givin a #### about whether the dog can do what it was meant to do or not. I for one would rather have a good mongrel or pet-quality purebred than a dog that looks pretty but has a list of health problems longer than my leg and is dumber than the average rock. However, I do not condone puppy mills, if a person insists on rasing animals has a responsibility to treat them decently. Decently dosent mean spoil them rotten and act like they are human. I have met people who treat their pets better than their kids and it made want to ask what the #### was wrong with them. For instance, there is a family down the road from me..I went to school with their kids. I don't remember the people ever throwing a birthday party for any of the kids, but a few years ago they had a b-day party with cake, hats, the works... for a pet monkey. I think most people except the most die-hard animal rights activists will agree there's something weird about that.

-- Ben (b_dowell10@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

Bull baiting is a fight between a dog and a bull. And pit fighting is a dog fight in an enclosure--a pit. As for why an owner of one of these incredible dogs would ever think that it is a "trouble" to not have the luxury of breeding dogs for this purpose any more I will never understand. I HOPE that I missunderstood Dianne's post.

-- Erika (misserika129@hotmail.com), May 03, 2002.

Sory to blow your theory but show people check for genetic defects .Ofa , Cerf , & heart to name a few.Puppy mills don't give a crap wether they breed healthy pups , they are out for a dollar.Not all show people are good people but most will bend over backwards to breed healthy dogs and stand behind them .Alot of there customers come from seeing them at shows and they do not want bad pr.If you are worried about brains get one from show and obedience lines or working titles.

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), May 03, 2002.

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