HoW cRaZy Is ThIs?? living in a M*A*S*H tent?

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DH and I bought 5 acres in Northern Arizona (outside of Holbrook...about an hour or so from Flagstaff). We want to build a cob house on the land and fence and get a well ...etc. Being the poor folk that we are (teachers) we don't have lots of money and I kind of hate the idea of throwing away money on rent when we own land....so...what about buying a big ole M*A*S*H type tent and living in it. I have seen them as large as 800 sf for sale on the net...a couple of those would be more than enough space for our family.

I guess one of the questions in my mind is how safe would we be at night or how safe would our stuff be when we were off the property? I am sure a .22 is great if you are there but what could we do to keep it secure while at work/in town, etc?

what do you guys think?? :)

-- Najia (najia274@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002

Answers

Well, I for one am a firm believer that you gotta do whatever you have to do to get your dream!

You could buy or build a shed that you could lock to keep your more valuable items in. Some good dogs will also go a long way to keeping folks out who shouldn't be there. Another way to think of it is, even people with solid doors and locks get broke into. If they want in, they will get in regardless!

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), April 25, 2002.


Wow! Flagstaff is so beautiful, and I always get teased for talking about building a "mud" house! Lucky girl! But wouldn't it get pretty cold?

-- Elizabeth (Lividia66@aol.com), April 25, 2002.

I agree that it would get pretty cold. As a matter of fact the overnight temperatures this week are to be in the 30s, and this is springtime.

Safety and theft would be an issue for me.

Safety, any large sized hail would be pretty tough on a tent, but I suspect that an Army surplus tent would also be pretty sturdy. What about crime in the area?

Theft, a shed would help, but the tent would allow easy access to anything in it.

Still, finding water should be the first and foremost issue. Is water available readily?

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), April 25, 2002.


We slept in those army tents, with a wood floor, at summer camp. Every time there was a thunderstorm, we'd all be herded into the lodge, because of the danger of falling trees, hit by lightning, crushing us in our beds.

So don't pitch in the fall line of any trees.

Also, during a really heavy rain, you'll have to take a broomstick to the outer rain tarp and jostle the accumulated water out of it, before it gathers enough water weight to break.

-- brooklynsheep (robbins@informinc.org), April 25, 2002.


The tents we were looking at have space for a little wood burning stove for heat. The lows this week are in the 30's but its been in the upper 50's - 70 degrees in the day.

Military tents are made of the same strenth canvas as they use to make yurts so I think it would stand up in the weather. I don't think we would need it longer than one year (I hope not!).

I like the shed and dog idea. I dont think we would have anything valuable there. Not really....but safety is an issue for me. Holbrook has somewhat of a high petty theft/burglary rate but we are outside of the area ....a few blocks distance off the main road. Not lots of neighbors but some.

Holbrook sits on an aquafer. We are trying to locate a driller now. we have been told water is anywhere from 50-250 feet below the surface. not too bad...it could be worse.

any other ideas re: safety of self and property?

-- Najia (najia274@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.



Najia........we lived in a regular camping tent (large sized) with three small children while we built our house. My oldest son started kindergarten and went to school for two months while we were still living in the tent. I guess these days, from what people say, the child protective services would have been after us, but at the time there was no way we could afford rent and buy supplies to build with. I say GO FOR IT!!!

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.

Watch out with an army tent. They may think your running a jail annex in the desert :>)

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.

Just add a dartboard on the door and a still and you'll enjoy it just fine :>)

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.

Can you find one cheap enough? I mean the ones I saw were in the 800- 1000 range? Unless one is practicallly handed to you why not hurry and put up what would be your garage or shed later, and move into that while you do the serious housebuilding. Then you have something useful later, it's a little more solid, and you can make sure the kids call it a cabin when they tell folks about it so no one freaks( in other words start calling it that first, not a garage or shed till AFTER you move out of it!).

-- Novina in ND (homespun@stellarnet.com), April 25, 2002.

It will be warm in Holbrook in another month. Summer temp will be in the 90's most days, with a few 100's, and somewhat windy with pleasant nights. Don't worry about heavy rain as it only occurs infrequently. Hail maybe on a yearly basis, if then. Your biggest problem will be ventilation as few trees in that area and not large enough to provide shade (Juniper and Pinon Pine) for a large tent. Plan on at least two gallons of water per day per person just for drinking. A .22 will not protect you, get a real gun .357 or .45. (No laws in AZ about pistol registration other than federal purchase.) Lots of criminals, state prison, but they are safe. Most crime is from Freeway folks passing through. Older trailers in that area are cheap.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), April 25, 2002.


Most of what we are seeing is between $800-$1000 too. Odds aren't too good we will find one at a garage sale given our present location (fly in Alaska village) BUT the way we see it is ...let's say we spend $1000 on it and use it for 12 months...that works out to $83 a month rent. Beats the heck out of renting for $600-$800 a month somewhere else! :)

we also considered dropping a prefab steel "garage'" down on our land and using that while we build....it just seems so spendy.

-- Najia (najia274@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.


The tent would work fine but I'd opt for something I could use later. $1000 is a lot of money for a recreational building. Check to see if maybe the same money would buy some type of building you could use later. But go for it either way.

-- Robin Downing (Southpawrobin1@aol.com), April 25, 2002.

Also, if you go with the tent, could you maybe frame up under it?

-- Robin Downing (Southpawrobin1@aol.com), April 25, 2002.

I'd use the $1,000.00 to build a carport cover with an attached framed structure to live in. Then at the end of a year you still have something you can use instead of tent canvas remants, the attached building can become a shop or storage area. You will not be able to put all the finishing touches inside but it will be much better than a tent. Also it can be your first building/learning project.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.

I'm with B.C. Make something that you can use again.

I'm jealous! My husband would NEVER agree to live in a tent, but I think it'd be cool. (For a while!)

Najia, I am curious about how you ended up in the Alaskan village...

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), April 25, 2002.



You can find used yurts at Back to Basics . They're similar.

-- casey (casey@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.

Those tents smell terrible! I've used them before. In AZ I think snakes might cause a problem in a tent.

-- Emil in TN (eprisco@usit.net), April 25, 2002.

No matter where you live, snakes IN THE TENT will cause a problem, especially with wimmen. Rare to see a snake in Arizona, or the desert southwest.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), April 25, 2002.

My husband and his family moved to joplin in the 40's. They lived in a tent. A regular MASH tent with a wood floor. There were 7 kids and two adults in the tent. Their Dad built the walls of the first two rooms of the final house inside the tent. He just raised the tent and used it for a roof. It took him two years living in that tent before he had a real roof overhead. They all still talk about It. They thought it was great fun. Well, All except one hail storm.

-- corky wolf (corkywolf@hotmail.com), April 25, 2002.

I would think you could put up a cheap shed for $1000, then you could put a lock on the door and when the house gets up you could use it as a barn, garage, shed or whatever. Surely there are plans in the archives??????????

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), April 25, 2002.

Hi In the last year, Mother Jones had an article about building a small house for around $1000. I would do that rather than a tent. You could add onto the house or use it for a workshop/guest house later. It had simple construction plans, 2 versions I think. An architect designed it for people who needed cheap housing.

-- DASh (forthechix@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.

Thoughts in another direction.

I have a 26' Terry travel-trailer that has had more "emergency" use than I ever dreamed. Completely self-contained, with full bed in rear, shower/toilet, lots of storage, and kitchen. Living room area breaks down into beds as does the table/eating area.

If you shopped carefully, you should be able to find a nice one which you could resell after you are done with it, and have a very small investment in "rent".

-- Judy (JMcFerrin@aol.com), April 25, 2002.


For practicality's sake make it something you can use later--even a garage or workshop. I would want something more substantial between me and the rest of the world. But wherre I live it gets considerably colder and wetter. It also allows you the peace of mind that comes with 'locking up'. Yes, they can steal anything at any time, I'd of course want them to do that when I was not there!

-- Anne (HealthyTouch101@wildmail.com), April 25, 2002.

Tent isn't a bad idea but I think the use of a camper trailer or how about finding a regular house..mobile home trailer. Sometimes you can actually get one for free !! You could haul it onto the property. You wouldn't have to hook up the toilet, electic or water unless you wanted too. But if you are planning on electric and septic you could hook into it while you were building. Much safer in the storms and snakes too !! You would also have your privacy. My daughter gave away a very nice '79 trailer home because no one wanted to move it and the park they were in wouldn't let them sell it without moving out of the park. Five years earlier they had paid $9800 for the place !!! You could lock the doors and feel and be safe too. But another question...why would you move somewhere where you would have to worry about people stealing from you ?? I would hope that your neighbors wouldn't. That never enters my mind where we are..maybe I'm just a believer in the good in people. Not that I would believe everything someone tells me but you know what I mean. I think you will be fine whatever you deceide. Good Luck !!!!

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), April 25, 2002.

Whoops...soory, too many magazines, too little brain... It was MOTHER EARTH NEWS that had the great article about building a small house for undrr $1000.

-- DASH (forthechix@yahoo.com), April 25, 2002.

$1000 is alot to spend on a tent like that. Have you checked military surplus dealers? For that much money I'd buy a trailer or build a structure. I see countless travel trailers under that price all the time and even a few free mobile homes every month. It could only take a day or 2 to line something up once you get there or you could search online for local newspapers, or write for a copy of the local newspapers, phone book and make arrangements.

Securing things is tough in those environments. If someone is determined, not much will stop them. You could use a steel 'job box' like they use at construction sites but even that isn't 100% secure, nothing really is.

I lived in a military tent with wood floor for 3 months once, just look at it like extended camping.

I used to install tents for special events, up to single 80'x 160' and sometimes several of that size at one location. Some of them we put flooring, astroturf, a/c or heat, lights, the works. Didn't seem much like a tent inside when we got done. You might want to check local tent rentals in that area, most usually have old stock to get rid of cheap or free.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 26, 2002.


=== Rare to see a snake in Arizona, or the desert southwest. ===

Uh CactusJoe, I've lived in Arizona most of my life. Don't know how you can make that statement unless you've never lived there ~ or you're pulling our leg! There were times the rattlers were so thick around the ranch that we were tossing them on the bbq and enjoying the free meal! I kept shovels at strategic areas around the ranch and carried a .357 magnum on my hip.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2222@hotmail.com), April 26, 2002.


Greetings all,

When we decided we'd had enough and headed for the country, time and money was (still is!) a problem. We needed storage for our stuff, both business and personal. We did not want to pay rent for storage, yet we didn't have time or money to build. Looking in our local "Thrifty Nickel" I noticed a fellow selling semi-trailers, hmmm... We bought two, one 48' and one 45'. He even delivered them as I don't drive that kind of truck. They are a little high off the ground but they are dry and secure and could later be set on the ground and converted to whatever use you could imagine or be resold. They were cheap, far cheaper than anything I could build. My neighbors really were wondering what I was up to...

-- Jerry Miles (neljer@txcyber.com), April 26, 2002.


we also have some remote land in northern az....what we did is we found a very old and cheap mobile home & we added a porch and 1 room, at this point in time we don't live there year round...a work in progress i guess you would say....but so far we haven't had any trouble with any of the stuff there being messed with...when we do get to build our regular house...we plan on using the current set up for storage and when company comes it will come in very handy.........i don't think a tent up there would be very good....snakes and transullas (can't spell that....those Big Spiders).........anyways good luck to ya

-- jenny (jsuzuki222@aol.com), April 26, 2002.

Rogo, lived in the Southwest over 50 years. Should have said "that area of" Arizona. It is high, very arid, with little vegetation. (There are snakes along the Lower CO River area.) Snakes like a little more moisture and areas where small rodents live. Most very arid desert areas I have been in have few snakes. Southern AZ is a lush desert area and they do have snakes.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), April 26, 2002.

I think a single wide would work better. You can get them for free as long as you "agree" it is only for storage, none needs to know anymore than that.

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), April 26, 2002.

120 degrees in the shade and there "aint none"? And outside feels cooler than in? Kids scared to get in their beds because of snakes and scorpians?

I, personally, would get a cheap tent to live in for a couple of weeks while you put up a garage or barn type building to live in. Something you can put a swamp cooler on and be able to survive without heat stroke and major dehydration.

-- kim in CO (kimk61252@hotmail.com), April 26, 2002.


I recently spent three months in a tent. I think wind is the biggest problem related to climate. Cold is okay, rain is okay, but wind is awful, so I would recommend pitching a tent among lots of trees where you have some protection from the wind.

Rick7

-- Rick7 (rick7@postmark.net), April 26, 2002.


IN 1995 when I was temporarily insane and married to another guy, we lived in a pop-up camper with the kids sleeping in a tent which our furniture was under while we roughed in a house.

We had a camper camode that we used and we showered with the hose. We used a generator to pump the water from the well until we finally got a temporary electrical hook up.

We would have made it just fine if the guy I was married to hadn't been a domestic violence freak...enough said about that...

I would opt for any kind of small building to sleep in stead of a tent. You can then use the small building for something else when you get your house built. Our pop-up camper was borrowed from a relative and didn't cost anything.

Living on the building site will be better than living off site because that will deter some theives but if you have to go off and work during the day you need some sort of protection there like big angry looking dogs.

-- Suzy in Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), April 26, 2002.


Great ideas, guys! I think the idea about building a shed/garage and using that would work....except we have never built anything (well, there was that time I build a decorative wheelbarrow in 6th grade). How hard is it to build something like that? To be honest, that was the big draw on cob for us. It seemed idiot proof. (no offense intended to any idiots who have built with cob...;^)) i am thinking lumber would be expensive in N. Arizona as there seem to be no trees (very few) in the area?

-- Najia (najia274@yahoo.com), April 26, 2002.

Najia, check out post from Grizz in Maryland above, titled "Free Mobile Home". Long way from Arizona, but its free for hauling off, might be a deal. Good luck.

-- j.r guerra in s. tx. (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), April 26, 2002.

There is a local sawmill 70 or so miles south of Holbrook in the White Mountains. The Navajos have one also. Don't know if they sell retail. Most lumber is purchased in Lumber Yards as they have a large selection. You might want to consider a "kit" wooden storage shed, say 10' x 14' (About $1000, but not real sure about the price.) Places like HOME DEPOT sells those in Northern AZ and I think they have a WEB site. Seems as if I saw a Home Depot in Winslow, however, not sure. For sure in Flagstaff or Gallup.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), April 26, 2002.

Okay, this is what some friends of ours did in your situation. They bought a garage kit and with help of friends and relatives poured a slab and put garage up. As they lived in the garage, they slowly built their house. The garage had a nice wood stove, a self contained toliet and was divided up into rooms with tarps.The kids had a neat sleeping loft in one corner up high, and under it was a play area and storage. I know its a little more $, but in the end when you do get a home built ,you will have a garage/workshop and a sound investment for your money. Secure as well. Kate

-- Kate in New York (Kate@sheepyvalley.com), April 26, 2002.

Several years ago I met a lady who lived in one of those big tents year round. She had it up on a platform, with a wood stove & lots of carpets on the floor. Sounded like fun to me, but she didn't have kids. They can complicate some things.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), April 26, 2002.

Najia:

When we started out in our place in missouri, we built a little pole leanto about 20 by 20. It had 3 little bunk rooms across the back, each one with a double bed built in with storage beneath and a long 10 by 20 room across the front that we used as a kitchen living room. For that first summer the big room was just screened and we closed it in when the cold weather came. The whole place was heated with a little box wood stove. Each little bedroom had a barn sash window. We had a wooden shingle roof but metal would have been even cheaper. It took 3 of us a week to build and cost us just a bit over 1000 dollars. We did use old windows and bargain lumber. When we needed more room and had more money, we just added on to one end. The big room became our kitchen and one of the bedrooms became a pantry. If you would like a simple plan and lumber list, send me an email....Or if there is some way to attach the plan to this forum I can post it for anyone interested. Build yourself a little house and add on or use it for a guest house when you build the cob house. Good luck.

-- mark chenail (chenail@uiuc.edu), April 26, 2002.


Najia, you are probably familiar with these WEB site; however, others might find them interesting.

City of Holbrook: www.ci.holbrook.az.us/ Navajo County, where Holbrook is located: www.co.navajo.az.us/ Petrified Forest National Park (immediately east of Holbrook): www.nps.gov/pefo/ Painted Desert (directly above the Petrified Forest): www.nps.gov/pefo/painteddesert.htm

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), April 26, 2002.


After semi truck trailers were mentioned, it made me think of the large 40' shipping containers that I sometimes see advertised. They are the kind use for ocean shipping and on rail cars. I have heard that they sell for about $1,000. Should be able to find them in the newspapers.

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), April 26, 2002.

I had a 20' insulated shipping container delivered a few weeks ago.

What a strong box! This one has solid fibreglass lining, a couple of inches of foam and aluminium cladding. The main frame is STONG steel. It cost me about US$800 and another $100 for the truck to bring it to me.

I am sure this would be big enough for two people to live in for a moderate amount of time especially if you could erect some sort of external ablutions building.

It was easy to cut an opening for an extra door and although I don't need windows that would be easy too.

Once you are done living in one it could become a small store, workshop or 'tractor shed', you could get a car in one easily enough but there is not much room to open the car door.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), April 26, 2002.


Cactus Joe, I've lived in Lake Havasu City Arizona (about as dry as you can get) for 20 years now, and snakes are everywhere !! Plus scorpions, sun spiders, and tarantulas. I wouldn't be afraid of a tent, but I WOULD be careful.

-- Jill (lance1_86404@yahoo.com), April 27, 2002.

I would look for ads in the newspaper buildings that need removal. You can get nice wood that way. Some older friends of mine homesteaded in the 60's. They first settled in a shipping container, then built a house using an old firehouse they had dismantled. When the kids came along that added to it. They still live in the house today.

Don't have building skills? Most of the home improvement stores have free classes that teach people how to build decks and install doors and those skills transfer to general building

-- DAsh (forthechix@yahoo.com), April 27, 2002.


Jill, for sure there are scorpions there. Probably too cold for tarantulas as they are more of a lower elvation insect here in the southwest. Yes, there will be an occasional rattler up there, but again the local climate is very arid and not much prey. I have never found it necessary to kill a rattler other than for food. Watch where you are going and LISTEN and they can be avoided or easily removed from the area. High boot help (rattlers missing) as these snakes really don't have a very great strike distance, generally 1/3 to 1/2 their body length. Guns are only necessary for the two legged snakes.

Do you have lots of snakes in the undisturbed surrounding area, or only where man has built houses?

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), April 27, 2002.


From experience you may pay almost as much for shipping as you will for the tent. They are heavy. Also do the ones you are looking at have a frame or do you have to provide that after you get the tent?

Building the buildings as mentioned would be the best as you should be able to do it for about the cost of a tent and would have besides the cheap rent you mentioned a storage building you could use for a long time bringing your monthly cost for shelter even lower.

In "Countryside" I read an article in the seventies about a women and her daughter who lived in a metal storage shed they had glued styrofoam on the inside for insulation. These buildings are cheap and you could use several with a roofed courtyard in the center to tie them together. Also check around as you should have a sawmill not to far away from you and you might be able to get the slabs for very little money. They work fine for walls so you could just build a roof and then side it in with the slabs. I did this with a lean to on a 16' camping trailer when I lived near Meyer AZ and I used this room for storage and the wood stove.

The tent would work but I really feel you could do something which would give you outbuildings for years for the same price.

-- gail missouri ozarks (gefozarks@centurytel.net), April 27, 2002.


You guys are AWESOME! This is why I come here...everyone is full of great ideas and so helpful!!! I am going to look into all of the ideas in addition to the tent. THANK YOU!!! (hugs to everyone!) Keep the great ideas coming!

-- Najia (najia274@yahoo.com), April 27, 2002.

Najia,

We suggest a pop-up camper. Preferably solid walls. We bought ours for $500 and it pulls eaisly with our 6 cyl. Explorer. When popped up we have room to sleep 7 a 3 burner propane stove, a sink and with battery power lights and a exhaust fan. With our generator we can add most anything we need power wise.

My next project is to install some 110 outlets with 35' power cord and a 110 a/c. My wife is pretty sure we can do the modifications for under $500. That'll put us at $1000 in a home away from home. I think something along these lines might be better than a tent. We have camped out in both and the camper wins hands down.

Good luck either way you go.

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), April 28, 2002.


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