Your contributions have got to be some of the most varied and interesting views on marriage / committment / divorce / communication / etc. that I have ever read. We covered the whole spectrum.

One really stung, however. The person who said his first wife was like me, and his second was like the woman who is working while her 'other' plays music, etc. And the second is on the pedestal.

That really hurt because you implied I am a bad wife. I don't think I could have done all I have for 28 years to make this house a home, the garden produce crops, the kids turn out so well, and the checkbook balance and at the same time be a bad woman and a bad wife. I don't complain to HIM about this stuff, I just needed to vent when I jotted it down to the group.

The other comment I need to make... On June 1, we will be celebrating the eighth anniversary of his kidney transplant. The kidney that keeps him going now is mine. We both made speedy and complete recoveries from the surgeries, and I do forget about it in the hustle and bustle of daily life now. I think he does, too.

Those of you who chose to criticize me and my distress might think about walking in someone's shoes for a bit before making hurtful comments. I am simply tired of being taken for granted.

-- Rose (open_rose@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002

Answers

He Rose! God made a special lady when He made you! I'm so sorry folks have to be so negative and judgmental of other folks. We are ALL in this life together--each one of us having our own problems. After what you did for your "other half" I'd say you went that extra mile! God Bless sis! old hoot. Matt.24:44

-- old hoot gibson (hoot@pcinetwork.com), April 22, 2002.

huh?

-- B. Fuddled - Zone3 (cwrench@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.

It's supposed to be "Hey Rose"! I wish I could type and even moreso I wish I could find ALL they typos I make. Sorry Rose. old hoot. Matt.24:44

-- old hoot gibson (hoot@pcinetwork.com), April 22, 2002.

I wouldn't pay any mind to it Rose. I'd bet wife #1 of that person got tired of being taken for granted too. I guess some guys would appreciate a wife to support them while they 'play' but not most men I know. Excepting medical problems or such, I've seen a few mamas boys and lazyasses that'd like that.

Those accomplishments you listed on that thread were truly impressive. I'm sure you've accomplished a heck of alot more than that person with his stupid comment.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.

"I believe that we should have contracts for child raising or other activities, with an opt out clause after the kids are grown. Or, some gentle way to let them know that this really isn't working anymore. I would be glad to keep on with the bookkeeping, etc., if he would just live someplace ELSE!"

Sorry Rose that you felt criticized and hurt. This comment by you led me to believe your marriage was in serious trouble and I for one was just trying to help. My husband would be very hurt if I were to ever post something like this on such a very large public forum. Wishing you well in your life and your marriage.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.

I'm sorry you got hurt here. I don't think folks realize what impact their words carry. But one man's pedestal is another man's pit.

-- Nina (Ingardenwithcat@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.

What was it some one once wrote..."We are all living lives of quiet desperation.

-- Buddy in e. Ga. (Buddybud@csranet.com), April 23, 2002.

Having been married almost 23 years, there have been many times that I thought of murder and/or divorce! Having said that, I will add that our marriage is VERY private and I wouldn't dream of exposing it to the general public's scrutiny.

Also, Rose, why would the written words of complete strangers hurt you? They don't know you and their opinion should mean nothing to you.

May I auggest what I've been known to do when I need to vent. Write it down. Rant and rave and rip it up! Get your thoughts together and find a time to talk to your DH. Don't get angry, but tell him in simple terms what you're feeling. Oh, and sit side by side, holding hands.

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

Ardie, you hit the nail on the head with your comment.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), April 23, 2002.

If I were you I wouldn't take it to heart,alot of time folks will say something without it really being directed at the person personally just speaking in general terms.Of course there is for anyone a certain danger in asking for opinions because you will get them good and bad. Lots of time when friends ask whats my opinion about this or that,I ask them "Do you want my real opinion or do you want me just to tell you the ways that I agree with you? Big difference.Anyway I've always had the opinion if you want to find out the truth about yourself don't ask a friend they will probably lie as not to hurt your feelings,but an adversary will jump at the chance to tell you 'just like it is'!

-- Gary (burnett_gary@msn.com), April 23, 2002.

I'm a few decades behind Ardie, but that message should be read again - ditto from me.

Don't worry about what other people say. It's all just expression - it's not to critisize. We are all speaking out - just like you did. On a better day, if you read what you wrote in the first message, you might be shocked at how aweful it sounded!!!! :) Same thing with all of these threads here & on all the message boards on the internet. Written words are only about 20% of the feeling & expression of what a live conversation is. We can't really tell what mood you were in when you wrote that firest message, nor can you tell what mood the rest were in when they replied.

Message threads on the internet are just real breif snippets of how a person feels at that moment. Not how things really are. There is always good advise thrown in them, but it doesn't always apply to the actual situation presented at the time.

Don't worry about what others say on the internet. Just sift out the good. There was a lot of good in the replies you got - for some days, for some people, there really was.

We'll never know the other 4/5ths of what you really meant - but then, you'll never really know the other 4/5ths of the replies you got either. :)

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

Like the line in the movie said..."What we have here is a failure to communicate ! " (sometimes) Posts and replies on this forum are composed of words. Only words. When speaking to another in person we may use voice inflection, vary the volume of our voice, stress some words, and we are able to "read" each others body language as we converse together. In general, we do not know the individual we are replying to on a forum. Sensitivity is important both in posting and in replying. Those who use this forum should re-read their message at least once. Don't hit that "submit" button until you are sure you understand what the person posting is really saying and your reply is something that you really should say. If we err, we should err on the side of caution. There is already an overabundance of rudeness and pain in this world. Living at peace with other human beings is one of the basic tenets of the homesteading philosophy. (for me it is at least). And, yes, I have had a number of birthdays....and, yes, in human relations most of what I've learned has been by trial and error (saying the wrong thing and then regretting it). One other thing, and I don't believe this should be a forum for religion, but one of the most difficult things for me to live is " forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." It's been 10 minutes since I wrote the above. Had a cup of coffee and re-read it. Peace

-- Charlie (kneedrop@triwest.net), April 23, 2002.

I think it is amazing that with all the good, supportive, and funny answers to Rose's original post that one or two negative ones are what stuck to her. Rose, I am so sorry you let those two of the many stick to you. I think it is a woman trait to take criticism so much to heart. Yea, I know there are some guys who don't slough it off but women tend to carry it around with them. I've been divorce for 8 years and I still hear HIS voice and HIS criticism or mean words to me. I'm a well educated woman, yet even though I know in my heart and logic that HIS words are bunk, they still haunt me when I screw up. We women are our own best critics and when we let the negativity of others into our hearts it tends to become part of our own. I wonder why?

Rose do NOT let those words get into you, reread all the positive, supportive, and funny responses. None of us lives your life so it really isn't fair for anyone to judge or assume.

Susan

-- Susan in MN (nanaboo@paulbunyan.net), April 23, 2002.

Charlie, that is real good advise.

Difficult to implemet with most internet connections tho. My 2 providers disconnects me if there is no activity on the lines for 5 or 10 minutes. I suspect a lot of people have that - so replies on the internet get written in 4.5 minutes or 9.5 minutes - flat out. :) :) Just let the thoughts flow out of the brain to the fingertips - raw data.

I suppose some day these forums will be replaced with instant video teleconferencing where we can show our true selves & emotions a lot, lot better, and find out most of us are just average normal friendly folks! Not sure I'm up for that tho, showing myself as I normally look sitting in front of the screen!!!!!! :) Ack!

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

Another ditto for Ardie and one for Charlie as well. Rose..no one can know your heart..or your husbands either. Everyone gets frustrated with their mate. But if I were your spouse (and alot of the others spouses who ranted yesterday) and I read this thread.. I would be hurt. Hurt for the words said and hurt for the words being out here for all the world to see. Its kinda like my Mom always telling us that we should think about what we say BEFORE we say it..cause we cannot take them back..and people may forgive us..but they may never be able to forget. Hope today is a good one for you and all..

-- Sher (riverdobbers@webtv.net), April 23, 2002.

When I read your post I knew most of it was you jesting out of your frustrations with your new togetherness. A funny thing about hobbies... My husband was out of work for several months and he followed me around all over the place. I told him that he needed to get a hobby and he said that he had one.....ME! Nice sentiment, but almost impossible to do laundry with someone hugging you!:~)! No doubt that I love him dearly, and no doubt that through thick and thin we will be together. Just sometimes you need to get it out of your system. I am glad that you felt able to do that with your friends here at the forum. I read back through all of the posts and some of them came out badly, but lots of them didn't. I think that you are doing a great job! Yes he needs to appreciate you more. Funny thing though about appreciating, if he doesn't feel loved and needed, then he won't be able to share it with you. I have noticed that over the years. If I am feeling totally icky and need to be told I am doing ok, then I begin by telling him how much I love and appreciate him and his hard work. I have been able to stay home all these years and raise the kids, homeschool, take care of my animals, care for the garden, sew, etc...All this while he has gone out and tackled the real world for me. Think of something that you can appreciate your husband for and genuinely praise him for it. You may be making it even harder for him because he is standing in the shadow of all that you have accomplished.

One more thing, there is not one of us that doesn't have a fleeting thought of whacking them upside the head at times! As long it is a fleeting thought! LOL! I am sure that he has thought the same about me a time or two(or three!) Hang in there and I know this too shall pass!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), April 23, 2002.

Just to set the record straight - I am the wife who supports her husband so he can "play" his music. We arrived at this decision after my husband worked full time for 13 years averaging 70 hours a week, driving a taxi in one of the most dangerous cities in America for a living. When a driver hit him and almost killed him, I ask him to go back to doing what he does best - play piano. Just like Rose, I had to get used to him being home all the time. And it did take awhile, but you do what you have to do to get by. I really rather like having him around after being gone for so much of the time. It is just a matter of getting used to it. As far as someone putting me up on a pedestal - well my husband does that everyday and I do appreciate it. I know he appreciates this chance to do what he loves so very much. Two years is not so much in the grand scheme of things noway.

Everyone here has things that they don't tell the whole story about. Rose if what someone says about me makes you feel badly, I am sorry. I was trying to tell you that it does take awhile to get used to someone being underfoot all the time. Don't take anything personal on this board - but also, be careful what you post here as anyone, including your husband, could read it. I believe that your husband would be very hurt too if he found out how you felt by reading it on a public forum. Talk to him instead may do more good to alleviate your present feelings. He may not know how you feel.

-- Cindy (sidepasser@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

Holy, moly, Rose! When I read your original post, I thought it was pretty humorous, and NOT intended as a "slam" towards your hubby, just some frustration at times. I mean, we all have those, right? I was stunned at some of the responses. When you said it took on a life of it's own, you sure weren't kidding! Ouch! I think maybe some people might forget what was actually in the post after reading down the response list, and responded more to the responses. Ouch! I think I would tend to be a bit offended at some of them too, but someone down the line had mentioned to read the ones that actually responded to you and ignore the rest (at least, that's how I understood it to mean). That's a good suggestion, once you get past wanting to pound the keyboard reponding to the meaner ones.

From the sounds of it, you have sacrificed much, and done really well for yourself. I am proud to hear of a woman who accomplishes so much regardless of the adversity! I think you'll hold your head up regardless of this experience, and you sure have earned that. It sure has given me strength to read about these accomplishments. THANK YOU!

Wishing you Peace...Judy

-- Judy Hill (hillsacres@sk.sympatico.ca), April 23, 2002.

I think something that everyone needs to understand is why people tend to air personal laundry on this forum. A lot of people don't have others to discuss things with and since we are all here so much, you tend to feel like folks here are your friends. We are, in fact, a type of "family".

People just tend to air thier thoughts, concerns, or seek personal advice, or need encouragement. When they do this, they aren't always "expecting" that the family will be rude or unfeeling which does cause people to be hurt. It hurts the same as if your "real" friends slammed you.

The old saying about "sticks and stones can hurt your bones, but words will never hurt you" is NOT true. Words do hurt! Especially coming from our community "family" here!

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

You've had excellent responses from many people: Ardie, Paul, Charlie, Nan, Cindy, Karen, many others, on this thread and the previous one. You've also had some critical ones from people who haven't yet learnt that what they type doesn't come across the same way as what they're thinking, or what they'd say face-to-face.

A serious question: on the subject of "love, honour, and whatever", how do you think your husband would feel if he read your initial public post? You may still love, but would he have a valid reason for thinking that you weren't living up to the "honour" bit? How would you feel if he put the same sort of feelings in writing to his friends about you? Think about it. If your thoughts reveal a problem, then remember that it was your actions that revealed the problem. Think about how your actions could initiate a resolution.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), April 23, 2002.

I don't really know what the original post was about, but I'll toss in my 2 cents worth anyway. I used to work with a bunch of women who constantly critisized & complained about their husbands - both current & ex. I thought it was terribly disloyal & unfair - the husbands couldn't give their side. I promised myself that I wouldn't do that to my husband (I wasn't married at the time) & in 15 years of marriage I haven't. If I have a problem with my dh I talk with him about it. If his mother & 1st wife were still alive I might get their advice - they knew him as well, if not better, than I do. Just my humble opinion.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), April 23, 2002.

Rose!!! It was a post from a man! Your venting about your man and you are going to let yet another man run you off :) Hopefully you meant you are finished "with this thread" not with the forum! I refuse to come on here day after day and pretend that marriage isn't a whole lot of work. You do a disservice to the young gals on here when your only message is peace and love and everything is fine though I am homeschooling 6 kids etc.... like some of the gals do! Shoot my 3 were in public school and they still drove me insane. That doesn't mean I don't love my kids, love my husband and love my life! It means I am real! Talk with you soon! Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

My wife & I just celebrated our 25th. I have gotten to feel like you sometimes and I know she has too, as we are two imperfect people living in an imperfect world. When I get to feeling like she can do nothing right I have to ask myself what I do that really gets on her nerves. Sometimes I have to stop and take a long look deep down inside myself and I realize that I am not perfect so how can I expect her to be. I believe very strong in honor. I want to honor her in every way I can. One way to honor her is not to air our dirty laundry for the whole world to see. I feel to do that would be to dishonor instead of honor. If we have disagrements they are between us instead of the world. I feel there is no place for wife-bashing and husband-bashing in a marriage. You said that most of what you said was suppose to be humourous or in jest, but it apeared that your heart was showing through. I hope things work out for you.

-- Vic (vicjulie@lycos.com), April 24, 2002.

Vicki, with mutual love, commitment(toward each other and for the Lord) and respect, everything can be "Peace and love and fine". Not that the love and commitment and the respect come easily all of the time, but it is possible to have a happy wonderful marriage and homeschool the kids and still be sane(most of the time anyway!) Marriage is work, but it is the second most important decision you will ever make. Just because some of us have no complaints about our husbands, makes us no less real than those that need to vent. Those that need to vent are also no worse than those of us that don't. Just different personalities and different needs to be met.

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), April 25, 2002.

Bonnie, You go girl. bill

-- bill szall (billisaszall@earthlink.net), April 25, 2002.