Shaklee Basic H poisoning HELP!!!!

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I need advice and quick. I've called the vet, and since he didn't understand what I was dealing with, he wasn't able to help much. I have read alot of things, including Joel Salatin's book "Grass Fed Beef", about using Baisic H to worm animals. I've read several things here also. I have made a BIG mistake and would like to know if anyone else has had this happen. I used it in water tanks for worm the older goats. Have several baby goats around 4 weeks old. I put it in their lamb bar (with milk). Also, we have a Dexter heifer calf we are bottle feeding, and fed it in her milk. The baby goats showed reaction to it right away. One was dead this morning. The Dexter calf is still alive but barely. Is there ANYTHING I can do? I have given her oil (which was about the only thing the vet knew to do) and 6 cc. of Tylan 200. She seems to be in pain. The other baby goats are doing better this morning, but still seem like they are drugged. Joel Salatin said you can't overdose with the Basic H. We just followed the directions in his book for amounts. Any advice? We REALLY don't want to lose this heifer (or anymore goats). Does anyone have any experience of what happens when Basic H is mixed with milk?

Thanks,

-- Kim (bailey@hilly-acre.com), April 10, 2002

Answers

Bizarre! Can you call Amway? Should be a number on the bottle... Good luck!

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), April 10, 2002.

What are the ingrediants of Basic H?

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), April 10, 2002.

I mean Shaklee, not Amway.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), April 10, 2002.

Can you try activated charcoal?? Our vet did this with one of our horses who was very sick and the next day he was better. I don't know much but maybe someone else knows if this will work??????

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 10, 2002.

Shaklee won't tell what's in it. From "Grass Fed Beef", Joel says, " It's a concentrated protein, made from two soybean enzymes."

The calf is stretching her neck back, occasionally gets some soap suds out. I called the vet again, to see if I should try to get water down her (with a baster) or if that would create more suds, therefore more problems. He said to try the water. Any opinions?

-- Kim (bailey@hilly-acre.com), April 10, 2002.



How heart breaking. I'm with Melissa, I'd try activated charcoal. You can get it at any pharmacy. I am so sorry about your experience but am grateful you shared it, it will make some of us think twice before we try just any old thing we read about. It has alerted me, I know. Please let us know what happens and I'll be praying for you. JD

-- Jean in Ky. (dandrea @duo-county.com), April 10, 2002.

Kim, I phoned a couple moments ago who have sold these products for many years to see if they could help. Aubrey assured me he will try to help. Their e-mail is abe4999@aol.com. If you need to speak with them directly toll free is 1-800-253-4089. Good Luck!!!! Teresa

-- teresa (padsr@centurytel.net), April 10, 2002.

We've been feeding a tiny amount of basic-h to all of the animals on the first day of the month every month. How much have you been feeding?

I know that it is a surfactant. I was guessing that it worked by eliminating all dissolved oxygen in the digestive system, thus suffocating intestional worms. Anybody actually know how it works?

I would guess that since the problem might be tied to the suds, you need to unsuds. My guess is that much like washing dishes: oil is the "antidote" to suds. In the case of goats, I would reach for vegetable oil.

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), April 10, 2002.


What happened was the proteins gave them gas and they bloated. Tube them with a product called Therabloat-drench concentrate. Your vet should have it. My husband has used it for years on his cattle.

-- Marilyn in CO (www.tomeatbeef@aol.com), April 10, 2002.

Is there something we can put in the water that would prevent the bloat?

Would basic-H be considered to be organic?

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), April 10, 2002.



Thanks everyone for your help. Teresa, I called Aubrey, thanks.

I've gotten some more oil down her too. She does seem to be resting better at the moment, and not in as much pain. She is under a heat lamp now, she acts like she is freezing. The baby goats are the same way, they just can't get warm. They have a heat lamp now too. They act like it's 10 degrees out there, not a warm sunny day.

As far as the bloat, the goat that died last night, seemed to bloat, and very quickly. None of the others seemed to do that.

-- Kim (bailey@hilly-acre.com), April 10, 2002.


You might want to put a thermometer up their pooper. Normal goat temp should be about 102 to 104 F.

If they are a lot lower than that, you might want to find ways to make them even warmer.

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), April 10, 2002.


I am very sorry for your troubles, Kim, and I sincerely hope you are able to help your critters recover.

I must admit to being fully perplexed, however. Out of the thousands of folks who have been using this product over the years, I personally have never heard of such a reaction, and indeed for 12 years I used Basic H on all manner of thousands of animals, and never once had a negative reaction, not to mention that our feces counts for parasites were always excellent.

Joel clearly states in his books to put the soap in the WATER, so in that reguard his instructions were apparently not heeded. The only thing that seems to compute, unless somehow your Basic H was contaminated, is that you accidentally used the wrong amount. One tablespoon to a five gallon bucket, or about 1/2 to 3/4 cup per 50 gallon water tank is all that is needed.

The best of luck to you!

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), April 11, 2002.


Glad to read that the end all be all miracle solution Basic H is not.

I am sorry for your troubles, More sorry for your animal's suffering but when I go out in the meadows and pastures and get on my hands and knees and look and taste and smell...there is no basic H there...I guarantee it.

There is no miracle cure, probiotic fix, naturopathic panacea, and if there was you uwould most certainly not be able to buy it. I have alot of respect for Joel Salatin, but I do not agree with him re: the panacea of Basic H.

The sooner we all realize that all living systems are integrated and that there is no magic bullet...then we can all start to use our god given minds to work things out in a rational way. Basic H is good stuff for some things, but it is not the fountain of youth, is not the magic livestock bullet, is not mecca, it is not nirvana, it is not even regulated.

So, was it worth it for the animals to suffer and die when you could have wormed them simply with any of a number of provn wormers? Or was the "natural" solution really better for them. Did the4y need worming? Or was it just tghe schedule?

Use your heads folks.

I apoloigze in advance if this post seems unfriendly...I do not intend that, but I do intend to poke you into thinking about and questioning everything that you do...every step that you take...there is no one right, safe, rightious, correct way.

Oscar

-- Oscar H. Will (owill@mail.whittier.edu), April 14, 2002.


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