I have a little trouble with my dogs and the neighbors. We live out in the country but next to another home which they do not like our two dogs roaming around their yard...even though they have one big dog themselves..so I know they are not scared of dogs. I have been trying to keep the dogs in a kennel run that is pretty long and also it has a grassy area but I know I can't keep them in that space forever because they do need the exercise...so I was just wondering should I bother fencing my 3 acres or what other options are there? If you know of any options please let me know..t

-- Aubrey Crane (Aubbygal@aol.com), March 26, 2002

Answers

We installed a low electric fence to keep our beagles in. You do need to do something. Your dogs are trespassing.

-- Rose (open_rose@hotmail.com), March 26, 2002.

Just because you OWN 3 acres doesn't mean you have to FENCE 3 acres! Why don't you just put up a standard city lot size fence out your back door? Put a gate in it so you can take the dogs with you when you take a walk, you can keep an eye on them when you are with them.

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), March 26, 2002.

Your dogs need to be kept at home for their own protection. I have three big dogs who are very high energy, and need lots of exercise. While it was an expense to build a kennel comfortable for them, and it's a big responsibility to make sure they get their daily exercise, it's worth it. I know when I leave for the day, they are safe and content in their kennels, and no one on my road is inconvenienced by my dogs.

The kennel walls are six foot chain link fence. It has a dirt/stone floor, but this year plan on pouring concrete to help keep things cleaner. If that isn't for you, at least chain your dogs on a nice long run. You can buy those cables that stretch 50' out with a 10'leash attached for under $25 at most pet stores.

-- Marge (mboyc73@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

We are in the same position as your neighbor. We also live in the country and DO NOT like the neighbor dogs roaming freely through our property. We have had dog predation to our birds (guineas, chickens, ducks), and other neighbors have had their calves killed by roaming neighbor dogs.

If you own dogs, you are responsible to keep them off other people's private property. Even the "nicest" dogs can become predators without warning. I applaud your effort to be a responsible dog owner and keep your dogs on your own property.

-- Liz Rhein (merhein@shentel.net), March 26, 2002.

You seem to be very nonchalant about your dogs trespassing onto your neighbors property. For pity sake you've got 3 acres let them crap in their own yard. They don't have to be scared to be annoyed by such rude behavior. Better fence them in or the option you'll face is the pound..... Dogs are only as well mannered as their owners...

-- Ken in Maine (kenjan@pivot.net), March 26, 2002.

If you own dogs it is your responsibility to keep them penned. I would think a homesteader would especially understand this. I have had goodness knows how many neighbor dogs come on my property and threaten either my family or my livestock(dang but it gets old hauling off that many dead dogs). If I put a notch in my gun for every dog I've shot I'd have to buy a new handle. Now before I start getting hate mail....I did warn the owners of these dogs that this was exactly what would happen if they didn't contain their dogs. There are many people out in the country that share my point of view. In the country when dogs are allowed to roam they form packs. Little fluffy suddenly becomes dangerous. When I was little a pack of family pets killed a toddler....ripped him to shreds. Several years ago I awoke to 5 of the neighbors dogs on top of my jersey milk cow....couldn't get my gun fast enough that time but I sure did scare the heck out of my neighbor(picture me furious, nightgown flapping with a 35). This is a subject I am very passionate about (obviously...lol). Please keep your dogs safely penned to protect your dogs and others.

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), March 26, 2002.

If you own dogs, you are responsible to keep them under control. Gone are the days of dogs running free just because they are in the "country". Most areas now have county wide leash laws either in place already or in legislation. A less expensive fence alternative is the welded wire and T posts. I put in a 30 x 90 pen for under $300 dollars.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

You might look into "Invisible Fencing". An nursery family I know uses it to keep their Deer Deterent Dog within the bounds of the nursery. The fence is buried a couple inches under the ground and the dog wears a shock collar that gives an audible warning that he is approaching his boundaries.

The funny part is, they spent money on this probably seven years or so ago and after the first week, never needed to turn it on again.

-- Tis I (really_tis_i@yahoo.com), March 26, 2002.

The other thing you're looking at is a potential lawsuit--say the neighbors have a picnic with some friends, and your dogs come over. One of the kids tries to pet the dog and gets bitten--you could lose everything when a fence would solve the problem.

I believe that the customary rule of law (evolved over years) is that, if you own animals, the owner needs to fence to either keep the animals in or to keep them from getting out--your neighbor is not required to have a fence.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 26, 2002.

We have an agreement with our next door folks that is pretty much like this:

1st time = yell loud; 2nd = bb gun; 3rd = sound of the 22; 4th = birdshot in the butt and a call to the owner saying "last chance".

-- Cindy Went (cwent@arches.uga.edu), March 26, 2002.

Good for you, Amanda et al. Aubrey, if I were your neighbor, I'd have shot your dogs already! Yes, if they have a good kennel, do not feel guilty about keeping them in it, as long as you exercize them properly. And this means LOTS of miles and exercize their brains as well as thier bodies. Do some serious obedience, one dog at a time and let each spend some quality time with you. I get the idea that you think "Exercize" means letting your dogs run all over. Wrong! It means getting together with your dogs and stretching their legs and brains right along with yours. You can give your dogs lots of meaningful work by setting up an agility course right there on your property. Dogs love it and so will you. Write to the AKC and ask for the Agility booklet. Teach your dogs to track. A chihuahua can do it so you know your dogs can. Warm up your leashes and long lines and get to work. My dog was never off leash(except in the herding ring) until he was almost 2 years old. You can give your dogs lots of exercize and improve their quality of life if you give it some thought. Have fun, LQ

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), March 26, 2002.

Teach the dogs to fetch. They get plenty of exercise in 10 minutes, and all you have to do is stand there and throw the toy. I have an 85 lb. German shepherd, 2 years old, full of energy. But he is always indoors with me, never allowed to run around on his own. He gets plenty of exercise, have him out there 4 or 5 times per day. Besides, taking him on long walks every day is a good way to motivate ME to exercise.

You don't need to fence off all 3 acres, just a nice large area if you insist on having them out there to run around.

The dogs are your responsibility, please do keep trying to find a solution. As someone mentioned earlier, if nothing else, you could be setting yourself up for a lawsuit. To the worst extreme, don't forget about that woman in California who is now facing up to 15 years in prison because her dogs killed someone.

-Chelsea

-- Chelsea (rmbehr@istar.ca), March 26, 2002.

It is possible to teach dogs to stay on their own property, but you must keep them fenced or tied until they have learned. If done when you move to a new place it is easy to teach them. Simply put one on a leash and walk it around the perimiter, pulling back on the leash and saying NO each time it tries to step off your property. Of course, if you have fenced pasture, etc., you only need to include in your lesson any area from which the dog might leave your property. You need to repeat this training as often as possible, at least a couple of times per day, but do not ever allow the dog to roam free until the lesson is learned. You can expect it to take a week or more. If the dog ever steps foot off your property, take him and tie him up at once. We have done this successfully and know others who have.

-- Dianne Wood (woodgoat@pacifier.com), March 26, 2002.

Yup Diane!

We have done the same wih every dog we have had. All Labs. We walk them around the perimeter or the area we designated as "yard". Every time they step out of bounds we say "YARD!". They learn very quickly too! While they are still young to the training, we'll purposely walk close to the "line" while they trot along. When they begin to wander too close to the line, before they even get to the line, we say "yard". This helps to re-enforce it in their minds. Lke you said - takes some time on our part, but it is well worth the time!

-- dottie - in E Shore MD (mother-ducker@webtv.net), March 27, 2002.

Speaking as a neighbor who has this problem of dogs coming onto their property please do as others have suggested and put up a fence or train them or something. My one neighbor stays in the yard when their dogs are out and if they are not able to be there they keep them in the fenced area. They have also trained them not to go off their property. But my other neighbors let their dogs run loose and one even sends her dog to do his thing in my yard so she doesn't have to step in it. I don't have a problem with dogs, I happen to like them but I don't like stepping in the crap all the time and my kids don't know how to watch and avoid it and shouldn't have to. I don't want to put up a fence so when it starts getting warm I'm calling the dog catcher(as bad as I hate to).

-- Terri in WV (mrs_swift_26547@yahoo.com), March 27, 2002.

AMEN! I like dogs but we always kept ours fenced. Our neighbors didn't & after losing a lot of chickens & ducks we finally had to shoot one of the dogs. We felt terrible but it was the only way to make the neighbors realize we were serious - & it's what the sheriff advised us to do. Now the neighbors keep their dogs home.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), March 27, 2002.

I must agree with the others that dogs can be a danger to children and live stock. I too have had to shoot several dogs. Most times the dogs get a warning shot but if they come back thats it. We've lost more chickens and pet kittens to wandering dogs. We also get the occasional hunting dog. As long as they have a collar and don't eat the animals or the kids we call the owners to get thier dogs. We keep our dogs in a nice fenced in area and play with them regulary or put them on a leash and walk them. Good lock. Michelle.

-- Michelle Thomas (mpthomas83@hotmail.com), March 27, 2002.

I phoned my neighbor about six times because their dog came over and harassed my TIED dog. The last time I phoned, it was to the sheriffs office. It is against the law to leave a dog unleashed and running free. At least it is here in Wisconsin. When the neighbor found out that he would gat a fine if I complained again, the dog was trained to stay on their land. By the way, I live in the country.

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), March 27, 2002.

We love dogs, and have 20 of 'em. All unadoptable rescues who live in a lovely kennel with a fenced acre. Then we have 4 house dogs. NONE of our dogs are EVER allowed to roam. If they did, I'd fully expect and understand if someone shot them. A nice lady moved in down the street a couple years ago with 2 dogs. Well-loved, pampered pets, but she lets them roam. Neighbors have been nice so far, and have returned them to her when they catch them. But she does it again and again. The other day, I was riding my horse in the corn field, and who should come charging out of nowhere but these two dogs! My horse spooked and ran, and I ended up on the ground with lots of boo-boos and sore bones & muscles. The horse almost got hit by a truck as he ran home, while I watched. Fortunately, the dogs owner also saw all of this taking place, and hopefully now she will take her dog situation more seriously. Otherwise, I'll bet the dogs won't last the summer.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), March 27, 2002.

my roaming dog problem has been pretty much solved by the two great pyrenees i have with the goats. i occasionally get a stupid dog that comes up, but they run when they see the pyres. my house dog has been trained to stay in the yard or woods behind my house-they few times he has strayed out he's learned it's not smart. he was attacked in the yard by either a coyote or strays not long ago-vet bill. now i'm keeping my eyes open for any strays and they will be taken care of. down the road a couple of years ago some "nice" man allowed about 8-10 strays to stay at his place-he works in the city and isn't home during the day, his dogs (which he did not feed) roamed a mile area and killed pets that were on long run lines, pets in fenced yards, and harrassed livestock. most of them were destroyed by neighbors-they man still hasn't done anything about the 3 still alive-but they don't bother livestock much anymore with all the shooting done at them. put up a fence for neighbor relations and safety. i'd shoot them if they strayed on my place more than twice.

-- laura (okgoatgal@hotmail.com), March 27, 2002.

How does that line go...."good fences make good neighbors"....

-- gita (gita@directcon.net), March 27, 2002.

Sounds as though there is definetly a neighbor problem! I think I too would have a problem with your dogs roaming around my yard.

-- Diana in FL (dvance4@juno.com), March 27, 2002.

field fencing 48" tall 330 feet long, $80.00 poles.. $ depending on what you use wood or metal and how tall. Hot wire or barbed wire to raise it if they go over.

If the dogs dig under lay a row of hot wire or barbed wire at bottom of fence or lay chicken wire (at least 36" wide 48" wide is much better) under fence on the ground so it is even on both sides of the fence - you may want to use hog rings to secure it in some places, then cover with dirt on both sides.

-- LurkyLu (LurkyLu@yahoo.com), March 27, 2002.

Aubry,

Whether or not your neighbors have or fear dogs is not the issue. I'm afraid your dogs' trespassing is. If you choose to have dogs then having a place for them to run and roam is a great idea. You need to somehow (raised fence, electric fence, 'invisible' underground fence) limit that area to property you own.

I love dogs myself and put up with the damage they do to my property and with the little presents they leave around it. I would not be so tolerant of the same damage and presents from a neighbor's dog. I imagine you and your neighbor each feel the same. Remember, strong fences make good neighbors. ;o)

I hope this helps. Good luck.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), March 27, 2002.

Sheesh. And I thought moving to the country would eliminate our inconsiderate neighbor problem....

fence your dogs

-- Najia (najia274@yahoo.com), March 27, 2002.

We have a friend who had his neighbors 3 dogs attack his goats. He came home to these dogs tearing the bag off of one of his does, they had killed three of his kids and two does were bleeding to death. The dogs had never hurt anything or anyone before had been to his house 'to visit' a couple of times and never bothered anything. He went to get his gun and told his wife to get the video camera because he KNEW his neighbors would not believe that their 'babies' had done this! He has 22 acres and neighbors have 36 acres! You need to make sure your dogs are fenced when they are not with you!

-- Debbie T in N.C. (rdtyner@mindspring.com), March 27, 2002.

Why is it when people move out, they have to get a pack of big dogs? I can understand one big dog for livestock protection or 2 smaller stock dogs, but this big dog thing is something I've never understood. Number one keep your dogs on your own place, whether you have 1000 acres or 1. If you can't train them, fence them, shock fence, kenel fence, anything, I have a neighbor that collects dogs, and it took a couple warnings that they wouldn't be coming home again if they kept showing up. I later found out that they carries parvo, besides chasing my stock, they have infected my ground. More than one dog almost always gets into trouble, if they're not chasing livestock they're running deer. If you can't control your dogs get rid of them. I don't like to sound high headed, but this is something that really grates one me. You have to be responsible or don't have them. Period.

-- Mark (mcford@theofficenet.com), March 27, 2002.

I have a problem with the neighbor's dogs. They chase my chickens, dig up my yard, and think my garden is their personal restroom. There are 100's of acres of pasture around. I too, have a dog. The biggest problem I have is that when their female comes in heat, they pen up my male. How stupid. If the neighbor's yard is the only problem, teach the dogs to stay away from their yard. The constable lives just down the road and stopped getting yard dogs because they kept killing the chickens around here. Talk to the neighbors and see if there is a simpler solution. Hope they aren't as stupid as mine.

-- Robin in East Texas (Southpawrobin1@aol.com), March 28, 2002.

We have found when newbies move to the country, they think they bought the whole county, letting their dogs,cats & kids run free & wild. I hope Aubrey will take the necessary steps to keep her animals on the property they are paying taxes on. We have asked nicely for the new neihgbors to keep their dogs on their place; after letting the neighbors know we have livestock we don't want harrassed &/or killed and that their dogs aren't welcome on our place, if the dogs show up we will shoot all 'non resident intruders'. I love dogs,cats & all critters and try to get the neighbors to keep them home first since we don't want to kill them, but I'll be darned if I'm paying & caring for my livestock just to have the careless,inconsiderate neighbors' animals coming over & destroying everything we've worked for!! Aubrey, we use the 'combo' panels, they come in 16 ft lengths and are 54" high, in KY we pay $13 a panel so for less than $300 including fence posts you can have a 80' X 48' kennel & a better relationship with your neighbors. You might even find them cheaper at farm auctions. Peace, Kathy

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), March 28, 2002.

Does anybody besides me ever wonder if some of these threads are started as a joke?? Like sheesh.........this is a homesteading forum which means we have or perhaps hope to have critters that we depend on for food etc. Her neighbor has a problem alright!!! Should they shoot the dogs or call the cops. I have a large dog, and he is beside me all the time except when we are playing out in MY field.

I also really love dogs and cryed my eyes out when I had to shoot a beautiful one that had been left to run and was tearing up my turkey and circling my baby goats. If this is not a joke thread, then it is really, really sad. Sad for the dogs especially!!!

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 28, 2002.