Inbreeding goatsgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread
I raise registered boer goats. I have several young does. I really don't want to buy another buck at this time. I would like some commets from readers about breeding these does back to their father. I will listen with an open mind. Thanks for your help.
-- LB (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 19, 2002
Breeding back to the sire or father is not recommended. I breed Alpines so I am not sure if the same applies for meat goats or not. I suspect it may. Breeding the doe to her SS or grandfather works well. In doing this you get more consistency of traits, not necessarily the good ones, but consistency. Many breeders elect to do this to see what the genetics in their lines are. I am sitting on my hands to not type the breder's saying about inbreeding vs linebreeding in the goat world. Last time I did I opened a can of worms.
-- Bernice (email@example.com), March 19, 2002.
I successfully bred father to daughter many times with no problems. These were Pygmies. I try not to as a rule, but he was the only buck available at the time. Can you rent a buck from someone??
-- Wendy (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 19, 2002.
We practice line breeding but not inbreeding.
One of the problems that I have seen with repeated inbreeding has been the loss of size. This may be a concern for you. As you probably know, inbreeding will amplify both positive and negative traits. So unless you have exceptional animals, I would not recomend it.
Just a side note. Years ago there was an article in one of the goat magazines about how to produce the perfect buck from the perfect doe. It involved breeding her best buck kids back to her for three generations. Culling the less than perfect bucks, which were the majority. It seemed like way too much work and had too high a percentage of culled does and bucks for me. I just mentioned this because CONTROLLED inbreeding is practiced by some breeders and is not always bad.
-- Scotsirish (email@example.com), March 19, 2002.
Bernice, what is her SS? (Sorry, I can never figure out abreviations;)
-- mary (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 19, 2002.
If you are just going to breed the daughters to sell the kids for meat, than it makes very little difference. Is your buck of such great value that these kids crossed back in again will be more valuable? The snooty side of me say's if you have to ask the question than you don't know enough about genetics and your bloodlines to do it. My practical side says this is just so short sited..............I not only have my breedings planned for this fall but also (barring death) know what bucks I will be using fall 2003. If you are just starting your herd and are going to keep daughters out of these does, than I would vote NO. Just because other breeders do tight line breeding and inbreeding, that isn't the whole story. Many many of the kids in the birthings are destroyed, to get that one great buck with 5 generations of a certain animal on either side! Are you willing to kill at birth kids with birth defects, because if you are a softy who will let, say a doe with horrible parrot mouth grow up to be a breeding doe in your herd, than I would vote NO again!
How about trading bucks with someone for a breeding, leasing a buck, trading a baby buck, AI, you have lots of other opportunities. Vicki
-- Vicki McGaugh TX (email@example.com), March 19, 2002.
SS is sire's sire or grandfather.
Oh gosh Vicki, you are so right about genetic defects. I recently learned of another one in the Alpine lines prone to a certain Alpine line if bred too closely on that line, its a degenative crippler that is very nasty.
Linebreeding or inbreeding, whichever you want to call it, is a risk, you must know your bloodlines and have first hand knowledge of traits, etc in the lines.
-- Bernice (firstname.lastname@example.org), March 19, 2002.
Yep, if you really know your lines and what you are doing, and are willing to cull hard, inbreeding can be a useful tool. Linebreeding is less risky and more likely to give good results. If you are going to eat all the kids, it would be OK. If you're going to keep the kids, you may want to find another buck.
On the other hand- breeding them to their sire one time only- i.e you would not then breed those kids back to the same buck, might not be the best choice, but it will not always be the worst choice. Breeding to a pygmy, for example, would be worse if you're keeping the kids. My old, now gone foundation doe was a double daughter of a particular buck. She was big and productive. BUT, the buck was the son of a doe who had to be milked into a pie tin ( I don't know why someone would use such a buck, much less inbreed on him), and my doe's udder left some attachment to be desired. Another breeder I know has bred does back to their sire, and then the kids were bred back to him again, and then those kids were bred to half brothers from the same buck, on and on. To look at how much inbreeding has been done, you'd think the kids would be awful and not very productive. This breeder has had some very productive animals from such breedings, among the country's top milk producers. They are large, strong does. And they all look alike!! I mean they are all of two color patterns, same head type, same type of body, same strengths, same faults. I think the breeding in this case has been a little extreme, but it would be difficult to find a more consistent herd. As I said, the consistency follows through both on the strong points, and the faults.
The dilemna of needing a new buck every year is why I use A.I. What I would do in your position, assuming you cannot get a new buck or trade the one you have, etc, is to go back and look at the pedigree on your buck. See whether or not he's inbred. If he is very outcrossed, then yes I would consider inbreeding one time- being willing to cull any undesirable kids. If he himself is inbred, then I would either trade the daughters for doelings of good quality from someone else, or find a way to lease a buck for a month.
-- Rebekah (email@example.com), March 19, 2002.