I am considering purchasing a currently wooded ag-zoned 13.3 acre tract. The realtor has it listed as a potential homesite, but it is landlocked (no road frontage). The realtor told me there would be access through the neighboring property, but I'm wondering if the county even allows property to be built upon without frontage. Then there would be issues such as water/utilities. Would your local planning board/commissioners approve a building permit to this property? Thanks.

-- Matt (matt_warren@hotmail.com), March 17, 2002

Answers

I would sure check with the county and the township planning commissions BEFORE you buy -

I know the township where we own some property has given us fits about having a certain percentage of frontage to the depth -

They are giving us problems just with trying to divide it - we haven't even gotten to the point of asking about building -

I wouldn't take the realtor's word for it that you can have access through the neighbor's property either - ask to see a copy of the deed, as it will tell you in black and white. If he won't give you a copy (red flag!), go to the courthouse & get one. You could also get a copy of the neighbor's to see what it says in theirs. Deeds are public record - you should only have to pay to have a copy made.

Good luck!

-- heather (h.m.metheny@att.net), March 17, 2002.

I would never buy ANY landlocked land without a legally recorded right-of-way. Taking the realtor's word, or the word of the current landowner is just asking for trouble. As a Virginia State Forest Ranger I have seen too many problems with right of ways over my 23 year career and it is getting worse all of the time!

-- joe lehnen (joetree@shentel.net), March 17, 2002.

Joe is right. We went thru that when we sold our home . Make sure you have that in writing.... signed and sealed.

-- Kristean Thompson (pigalena_babe@yahoo.com), March 17, 2002.

An easement MUST be registered on the deed at the courthouse. If there is none, walk away.

-- john (natlivent@pcpros.net), March 17, 2002.

In many places it is illegal to sell completely landlocked property. There is undoubtedly an easement somewhere, the problem is generally finding which neighbor has it, and the owner should know, or find out at the county courthouse.

I never understood why someone wouldn't just sell the easement property, especially if it is to one side or another, to the landlocked property owner. I mean, you're paying taxes on property that someone else is using, and you are legally liable if there is a mishap on that part of your property as well, just as you are on the rest of your property.

Easements for water and other utilities are not really owner-controlled much anymore--they are blanket easements that allow the utilities access, period. If you've got the money, they'll run the line, and the further you live from the main in the street, the more it will cost.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 17, 2002.

The easement if it exists may not be on the deed. It should still be recorded at the courthouse. In West Virginia things like that are recorded in the Grantee Index.

The real estate agent should be able to come up with proof of the easement. If not, forget it. I know of a landlocked 3 acre site in WV with a house and a barn. There is no easement. At one time both the surrounding acreage and the interior piece were owned by the same family. Somehow a bank came to own both pieces and sold them separately.

Everyone who has bought the landlocked parcel since then has been screwed.

-- Darren (df@infi.net), March 17, 2002.

Another option for the OWNER to pursue before selling is to prove adverse posession (show "open and notorious use of property without complaint from the actual owner" is more or less the idea)--in other words, if there is a well-used driveway to the property, that could be evidence enough for a court.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 17, 2002.

It's a useless piece of property, DON'T buy it. The county I am living in has Strict septic laws, I know of a 10 acre piece that will not perc! It is only good for running cattle or maybe camping? How sad, these folks are sitting on a piece of ground that they will probably not be able to sell, and have to pay taxes on it. A landlocked piece is just as scary, how on earth are you able to get to it? You might be able to have the neighbor give a right of way, and make it contingent before the sale is through, and of course it is given in your deed. You most likely will have to pay the neighbor something to make this happen. It is an option, but what ever you do do not buy property until you have looked at the deed and have seen what easements there are and what there is not. In my county the county recorders office is very helpful in reading the deeds, I have also taken a deed down to the planning department and they are usually quite knowledgeable about deeds and easements and the rules. Really do your homework, it will pay off.

-- Esther (realestatez@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Buy a 1969 Dodge Charger, paint a rebel flag on the roof and just jump over to the property (Dixie horn optionally blaring). Well...

-- Bo and Luke Duke (GeneralLee@01.com), March 18, 2002.

Here in Alabama, an easement cannot run through an established garden space on homestead exemptioned residential property. I have heard of people planting gardens property line to property line to protect themselves from an encroaching access easement to landlock property crossing their parcels.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), March 18, 2002.

Here the only way to be sure is hire an attorney, pay him and get it legally. With out this and title insurance don't even think about it. If an attorney says you have access and you pay him for it, his insurance stands behind his work.This is not a do it yourself project. and the laws are different in every state. I have said this before and here goes again, bought a house from a widow who had owned and lived in that house for over 45 years, told the attorney I use to do a title check and get me title insurance, cost about 450 dollars. My attorney knew the people and said I didn't need it but I insisted. He called two days later and said the people did not have clear title to the property, It cost them over 12000 to track down the people and get the deeds signed so I could buy it. Sure I could have bought it and nothing would have been noticed untill I went to sell it, then it would have been harder and more expensive and all on my nickle. Don't skimp on the probably largest expenseive things most people ever buy.

-- David in North Al. (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), March 18, 2002.

When I worked processing loans at a bank, we had a couple that wanted to purchase a particular piece of property. The property was owned by one family and legally divided up between them. One of the family members wanted to sell their piece of land. There was a recorded deed on this particular piece, with a legal right of way. Only problem was, the rest of the family members, didn't want outsiders driving on "their" property. It was too much of a hassel that the buyers didn't want, and they looked for property elsewhere. Meet your neighbors before you buy. You might have the right to drive on their property, but if they are going to make it a living hell to do so, it probably isn't worth it.

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), March 18, 2002.

We had the same situation, we got a title deeding the right away (had to have it signed off by 13 people). We made sure the right away is permanent (as if we sell, the right away is good). We know of a man that is truly landlocked and cannot get to his property nor does anyone want to buy it from him because it is inaccessible. Make sure you have a legal deeded right of way to be sure.

-- Sharon (chessyemailaddy@notreal.com), March 18, 2002.

I'd go talk to the folks that the right of way would have to go across and ask them about it,they just might say fine ole so and so has used that road for 30 years and I'll let you have a legal right of way.On the other hand even if there is a legal right of way and they don't want you to use it and are going to always be giving you trouble you'd be making a mistake to buy the piece of land.

-- Gary (burnett_gary@msn.com), March 18, 2002.

You need to check with your local county. in our county you must have frontage of 200ft. If your county allows land lock sites then you need to make sure you have legal right of way to access it. This needs to be documented.

-- Gary in Ohio (gws@columbus.rr.com), March 18, 2002.

This is often a headache, as others are saying. You need the easement access in writing, and legal, and transferable. Some govt bodies do not allow this any more because of the many hassles & hardships it causes.

You need to be on good terms with the people the easement crosses. You will have right of access through their property, but they still and always will own that bit of land, and can make a living hell for you with it.

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

There is acreage behind mine. I have 300 acreas. This land is on top of a hill and is 60 acres. The only way is through my property and there is no way I will alow an easement. Once you do it, it is over. First of all they would have to put in a road. There is no road on my property we use a tractor,horses or foot to go any where on the property, We have a billion fences because of cattle, horses and sheep all in different areas. Then they would have to build bridges because of creeks everywhere. So...if it ever went up for sale I would be there to let the people know they need to fly in. You see, I am a nice person buy what if they built a house and then my property would be completely divided with their road. As it is now nobody knows where the owners are and I have paid the property taxes on it for the past four years and the prior owners of my property had for the 11 years before. But think...if someone is landlocked and you give them the easement and they turn out to have wild parties, do not lock the fences because their teenage son says its not their animals) get the picture. Just a thought!

-- debboe (bwolcott@cwis.net), March 18, 2002.

i know a guy trying to get a road thru someone's property to his land. he has gone thru he** for several years now. he had to pay for the road himself and he can never seem to get the road up to the standards of the county. something is always wrong, he started taking a micro recorder to the meetings, because they would tell him one thing one month and another thing the next month. only once a month meetings you know.:) good luck.

-- steve (stevetamara@mindspring.com), March 18, 2002.

Don't just walk, RUN from this one!

There are probably hundreds of thousands of these type properties all across America. NEVER accept the word of a realtor, whose only business is to sell properties, not to be your best friend.

Get everything in writing, even from the P&Z board (which they won't do) and take it to the courthouse and then to a real estate attorney. And find out what other easements are in place: like the irrigation water...who has first rights; the utilities....electric & phone, soil conservation districts.

Before anyone closes on any property make sure the land will perc and that a real estate attorney has gone over all the facts and that the taxes are current and paid & finally that there are no liens filed against the owners or their property.

-- al (yr2012@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Yes do your research. I am not sure I would have bought my property knowing that there was this landlock piece of land behind mine! In fact I didn't know it until I moved on the property and when property taxes were do this 60 acres was pointed out to me by the Country Tax Collector. She said mine name was on the property taxes, if I do not pay the taxes on that property it would go up for auction if they can't find the owners, in which case I probably could own for nothing but...I am afraid to go that route. With my luck because it is a good piece of hunting property the owners will be found, they pay back all the back taxes and scream for a road. Now if that would happen I would fight tooth and nail, I would refuse a road unless they tie me down and put it in. So..I continue to pay the taxes not to stir a kettle.

-- debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), March 18, 2002.

Debbie, if you are paying the taxes, how can they say you are not the owner of that property? If you do not own the property, you shouldn't be paying taxes on it. This might be something to bring up to the local TV station as an example of a bureaucratic mixup--bad publicity can work wonders getting these things fixed. I would also say that landlocked property is far from unusual, it may be a holdover from when there were ordinances allowing for subdivisions of property. All it means is that until you allow an easement of some sort, you would be best off selling all the property (both parcels) as one unit. Another option might be to just petition to have a side strip of your front property (out to the road) divided out and attached to the back property, in essense making what is known as a "flag lot" (the pole of the flag is the driveway) so that you can sell the back piece of property. Obviously you're still paying taxes on it, until you sell it, but that way you are making the decision on where that driveway's going, not the county. You might actually be able to shrink the back plot somewhat to make up for the driveway you'd be making room for.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 18, 2002.

Your question is interesting, especially since we do not know what state you are in; or for that matter what country.

That said the answer is maybe.

Best I can do without just a little information.

-- Ed Copp (OH) (edcopp@yahoo.com), March 18, 2002.

Debbie, I would sure be interested in more info on your situation. That just is not right the way it is. At this point, if you have paid taxes on it for a number of years, I would see a land lawyer & fing out what happens - if at some point you can pettion to own the land. Adverse posestion, or squatter's rights, or whatever you want to call it.

As it is, the govt isn't making a stir because the taxes are being paid, and the real owners aren't bothered because they have free land.

You run into some odd situations here - say a 15 year old kid goes ATV'ing on that propery & gets his skull bashed in. The kid's parents sue - who do they sue? You? You've been paying taxes. Will your homeowner's insurance cover it? Hummm, it's not your property, I donno.

Lots of other little bugs like that. They might be one in a million shots, but then, I hear a co-worker of someone here just won 6 million in a lottery......

I think I would want the pot stirred, and find out what is going on with all of this. You aren't the _only_ proerty boardering, an access road may go elsewhere if it had to be put in.

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.

Paul raises some interesting questions. I have tried to find the owners and cannot. Been told they moved 50 years ago! Now I do let hunters hunt. I now wonder if they were hurt who is sued. Didn't think of that stuff before. At the moment, we do not want to stir the kettle but certainly will in the next year or so. Actually the only way they could get onto this property is with a mule. It is at the back end of mine up a steep hill that I wouldn't take my horse up. I actually fell down it once and at the top is a beautiful forest. Behind my property is 15 thousand acres so I believe these people are truly out of luck.

-- debbie (bwolcott@cwis.net), March 22, 2002.