SNAKES!!!!!!

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Okay, just a few short weeks ago I reported that I was finding grasshoppers already. Well Friday morning when I went out to let my chickens out I noticed a stray dog not far away from my house. The dog dropped off the hill toward the creek so I thought I better go over there to the edge of the trees and give a mean yell just to make sure that stray dog keeps running. This I did. After a few moment of standing there being sure the dog was gone I happened to look down at my feet and to my surprise there was a 3'-3 1/2' long water moccasin(spelling?) stretched out at my feet. I stepped a couple of feet back to make a better observation of the snake (more like without bending my knees or ankles I kind of jerked backed about 5 yards quite suddenly). I thought gee I can't believe this, just a couple of nights ago we was having 9 degree temperature and now I'm looking at a snake. And it is still March, whats the deal? This has got to be the weirdest winter I have seen.

When I finally caught my breath, I grabbed a long stick and used it to catch the snake. I put it in a minnow bucket and went to my little village and showed it off to everybody. Later when I got back home I dispatched the snake, skinned him out. Next time I go to town I will buy the chemicals needed to tan me a nice looking skin.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), March 10, 2002

Answers

Sure makes me glad that we don't have poisonous snakes in my state :-)!!

-- Marcia (HrMr@webtv.net), March 10, 2002.

A week ago it was 13 degrees. Yesterday, my neighbors killed a stinging scorpion. January was warm and the critters started getting active. Can't believe the severe cold didn't get them. Nearly killed me.

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), March 10, 2002.

Yesterday we had a high of 72 and today's high was 22. I'd rather have 2 days average of 52 than this high/low thing. Mixes up the trees and the animals, not to mention me. Our lady bugs have come alive again. They're flying around in the house.

-- Charleen in WNY (charney@rochester.rr.com), March 10, 2002.

Oh dear, guess spring is coming! Sure hope this doesn't cause the snake lovers on this list to ahve a fit! Seems last summer folks had a nasty argument over not killing posionous snakes. I can understand it, but when your life or a loved one is in danger best to do what you have to do.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), March 10, 2002.

Marcia, ya got me curious, where do you live that you don't have snakes? Hawaii? :) LQ

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), March 11, 2002.


Your right, that is early. The earliest I've ever seen a snake was one year in eary April I was buzzed by a rattler on a warm shale side hill. Put my heart right in my throat, I never expected to find a snake out when there was still patches of snow around. (I live in Eastern Washington State.)

-- Mark C. Ford (mcford@theofficenet.com), March 11, 2002.

Little Quacker,

I once read somewhere that the only 2 states that don't have poisonous snakes were Maine (1 more reason I'm glad I live here) and Alaska. Not sure if we really are the only ones, but that's what I read.

-- Murray in ME (lkdmfarm@megalink.net), March 11, 2002.


I haven't seen a snake yet. I do watch for them, I know they are just waiting for a sunny day and a warm rock.

What I have seen are ticks. Our horses are covered and so are the dogs. We've never had to start spraying this early. It is so frustrating because nothing seems to really work. If anyone knows of a good way to keep ticks off horses and dogs, I like to hear it.

-- Mona in OK (modoc@ipa.net), March 11, 2002.


MONA, Try some guineas, we had tics real bad when we moved here three years ago,and now it is very rare to find one on the dog. AL in E/N.C.

-- AL (almiyo3@hotmail.com), March 11, 2002.

Let me get this straight; the snake was laying there harmlessly, enjoying the pretty day (much like you, maybe?). You abduct him, tote him around so you & the yokels can gawk at him in a bucket, and then you bring him home and "dispatch" him so you can steal his skin? And then you gloat about it here on the forum? Sorry to hear you're so hard up for entertainment. Cabin fever must be REALLY bad in Oklahoma this year.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), March 11, 2002.


Here in Vermont, we don't have any poisonous snakes....except on top of some mountain, a few little timber rattlers were found. Another bonus is that we have no ticks in this part of Vermont ;-)

My garden is chock-full of garter snakes. It's nice to never have to worry what sort of snake I'm looking at ;-)

-- Peace and Carrots Farm (wsm311@aol.com), March 11, 2002.


I've heard moccasins are ill tempered. I lived in Mississippi for ten years and only saw one and that was in the backyard. One of the dogs was a making a huge racket beyond what I'd ever heard.

I went out to the dog and calmed her. On the way back I saw the black three foot long stumpy shape in the grass. I don't know who moved faster. Me or the snake. I took off for the shotgun and snake apparently went for the fence. It was gone when I got back.

Went through the whole thing again a day or so later. Stupid me should have known it was the snake. I went out without the shotgun again.

I never saw that snake after the second time. I wasn't too happy with the idea of the moccasin in the backyard along with our two kids.

I don't mind snakes. I figure they're going to be bothering the mice and moles nore than me. In West Virginia it seems the folks think every snake that isn't green is a copperhead. All of the snakes they've killed have been black snakes. We've got a couple of nice sized ones that I've seen on this side of the creek. I wish there were more.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), March 11, 2002.


Shannon - I think most sane people would not hesitate to kill a poisonous snake if given the chance. Why risk your pets and children? Surely people have the right to dispatch a snake on their own property. And to Darren - I am getting mixed signals from your post - you are frustrated that you couldn't get your shotgun quick enough to kill a snake but you want more of them??? Just to kill them? Hmmm..... Personally, I have killed plenty of poisonous snakes in my lifetime. They are interfering with my rights to enjoy my property and as a human being, having dominion over the lower animals is a God given right. That includes harvesting for food, and eliminating ones that threaten the health and welfare of me and my loved ones. Surely my wife would either be the most miserable person on earth or leave me if I did not kill every spider, scorpion, and poisonous snake we ever come across. Enough reason right there!

-- SteveD(TX) (smdann@swbell.net), March 11, 2002.

r.h., Where do you live in OK? I haven't seen a snake here in Stratford yet. What are you planning on making with your skin? I didn't know that you needed any special chemicals for tanning snake skin. My son shot a rattler in our yard 2 years ago and I skinned it out and hung it on our carport support. Unfortunately I hung it wet side in and it stuck, and I mean stuck. Have you tanned them before?

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@farm.com), March 11, 2002.


Al,

I have guineas. The ticks beat them up and send them home without their lunch money on a regular basis.

I will go to certain lengths to preserve non-poisonous snakes on my property. I, with help, caught two rat snakes that were denned up in my chicken house and relocated them.

I know they perform a service.

Poisonous snakes are dispatched without hesitation. Flame me if you will, my children are worth more to me than snakes. The only poisionous snakes we have found here were found by my children. No contest. No question.

My golden retriever, on the other hand, hates them all evenly. He's been bitten more than once. Any snake he sees is toast. I've seen him grab them by the head and shake with all his strength.

-- Mona in OK (modoc@ipa.net), March 11, 2002.



I agree with Shannon ....was the Snake harming you? If then run away from it. Imagine what the snake was going through when you dispatched it. Jill

-- Jill (jsergette@yahoo.com), March 11, 2002.

YES! IT IS OK TO CASTRATE AN ADULT PIT VIPER VIA .410, .12 GAUGE, .357, STICK OR ROCK WITHOUT ANESTHESIA!

At least in the real world. I more often than not walk (not run) away but do not lose sleep if I decide to dispatch Mr. Ssssssake.

-- Pliskin (snake@handler.net), March 11, 2002.


I can understand that we're all suffering from cabin fever and will waste typing energy to argue about things that will never change. Man and snake have been at odds for all of eternity, or so it seems. I'm lucky because we have no poisonous snakes here. My husband is still not impressed when my six-year-old son runs up to him with the yell of "Hey Dad, look what I got", then pauses, drops it, and says,"Ow, it bit me!" very indignantly. After his small wounds are mopped up, he's back in the woodpile with the dog, looking for the snake again! When we lived in Pennsylvania my husband got to the point where he wasn't sure he wanted to go for walks in the woods with me because we would ALWAYS find a copperhead somewhere along the way. They really aren't very bad-tempered and won't bother you if you don't bother them. However, if a copperhead was living in my woodpile, you can be sure it would be dispatched without hesitation!

I'm amazed that we actually debated this issue last summer also. You would think we'd all be too busy to bother with phobias that are as old as our species!

-- Sheryl in Me (radams@sacoriver.net), March 12, 2002.


Hey r.h.:

My brother sort of 'tanned' a rattlesnake skin using nothing but applying liberally sprinkled salt on the inside skin, then pinned tightly to a plank. Gotta keep it protected, because possums or other critters do a little gnawing on the edges if given the chance.

The skin came out fine, but is stiff, not pliable, and has hung on his wall at least 15 years now. Good luck with your snake hide.

-- j.r. guerra in s. tx. (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), March 12, 2002.


There is one tack that we haven't taken on this sea of snakes. When I was young, here in Wisconsin, I was led to believe that any snake found near the water was a moccasin and to be feared. But I never saw one with a white mouth. Later learned that the nearest cottonmouth was probably almost 500 miles south of here. Often got up close and personal with timber rattlesnakes when this state still had a bounty on them. From what I see, Oklahoma is not included in the cottonmouth range. Recognizable by the white mouth which gives the snake its name. Definite species identity would be the addition of fangs and wide head instead of simple teeth and narrow head of the northern water snake which WOULD be found in OK. And indeed, the northern water snake does exist in a variety of color variations from nearly black to a dusky blue to mimicking the moccasin contrasting colors. Before killing any possibly venomous snake, one should always make certain of a positive identification as well as weighing the beneficial odds. The last rattler that I bountied was a male and I knew it. Town treasurer was certain that it was a female in which case any egg or unborn young would be worth 50 cents. He ordered me to cut it open. The 8 bumps were gophers!

-- Martin Longseth (paquebot@merr.com), March 13, 2002.

Well, one really shouldn't go about killing the non-venomous snakes. They're essentially harmless and perform a useful service.

If I find it well away from houses, other buildings and livestock I'll even give a rattlesnake a break.

A water mocassin is a different matter. Those I'll kill every chance I get. A rattlesnake will run given the chance. A mocassin will likely as not come after you rather than run away. They can be very aggressive that way.

Everyone really should become familiar with the common snake species in their area. When you know what you're looking at it can take much of the fear out of the encounter even if it it venomous and you need to kill it.

BTW, they're not dangerous in the least but even non-venomous snakes can be a pain in the behind. Last year I caught and transported seven yellow rat snakes that were eating eggs. When it was just the one big snake (4ft +) I tolerated the occasional loss of an egg or three in return for the services he provided in eating the local rodents. Unfortunately he invited his entire doggone extended family to eat at Chez Hagan and the egg loss was going into the dozens. Had two that I found with three distinct lumps in them at one time. The fool things also swallowed three extra large plastic Easter eggs and two large wood eggs that I was using as nest eggs.

I've handled snakes all of my life and have no fear of them (a healthy respect for the venomous ones) but that first night when I went into the dark hen house to get the days eggs and grabbed a four foot snake in the nest box instead I knocked a nice goose egg on the back of my head on the low rafters! I cussed that snake the whole five miles I drove him to release him into a large stand of planted pines.

.......Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), March 13, 2002.


Sorry Martin, Oklahoma does have the water moccasin, white mouth and all, even here in western Oklahoma. I've spent a lot of time on the rivers here with members of the wildlife department. The prairie rattlers give me a problem, I won't hesitate to shoot one if it's in my yard, chicken coop, barn, rabbit pen, etc., I have lost livestock to rattlers. I have two resident bull snakes that help keep the rattlers out of the area too. Like Alan said, it's worth a losing a few eggs if the bull snakes are going to keep the mouse, rat and rattler population down.

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), March 13, 2002.

Ditto Cowgirlone. Can't say how many times I've looked down past my cutoffs and sockless lowtop tennis shoes to see a coiled mocc with the white mouth open and ready for action. See it once and you'll never forget. Puts a whole new spin on your fishing day. This would be in and around NE Oklahoma.

And hats off to -- j.r. guerra in s. tx for offering positive and helpful advice (gasp) to -- r.h. in okla and other yokels such as myself. More info to tuck away for possible future use.

-- Pliskin (snake@handlers.net), March 13, 2002.


Hi everybody its me again. The snake I killed was a non-poisonus water mocasin and not a cotton mouth. And we do have cottom mouths here in Delaware county of Oklahoma. They are somewhat darker than the common water mocasin though they are not as common. I would prefer to kill a water mocasin for the skin because they make very colorful hat bands and sleeves/chaps to put over the limbs of your stick bow.

Tanning: After skinning snake out, rub salt all over the inside of the skin and roll up and let sit for a couple of days at room temperature. Next unroll the skin and carefully scrape the salt and flesh off the inside of the skin being careful not to cut the skin. After scrapeing, rinse skin well in water to remove all salt. Next place skin in a solution of 1 part Glycerin, 1 part Alcohol, 1 part water. I usually do this in a 1 quart jar. Leave in solution for approximately 3 days and shake once or twice a day. Next remove skin from solution and rinse in water. After rinsing spread skin out on a table of some sort and use a hair blow dryer to dry the skin. After skin is very much dry you can then place the skin on a board with scale side out and let dry until the scales have shed. After the scales have dried and shed the skin is now ready to make into a hat band, belt, bow limb chaps or whatever suits your fancy.

Sorry Shannon of Graceful Acres, but God put all animals on this earth for man to use, either eat it or wear it. Thanks to all who responded, I really enjoyed reading everybodys response. r.h.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), March 13, 2002.


As far as tanning, you can cheat a little and go to Tandy leather and buy a product called TANNIT it's a chemical tan, I know of some taxidermists who do not like the chemical tans, but I've tanned many different types of hides with it, including snake skins. After you flesh the skin, you strech it as you normally would, salt it, let dry, then rehydrate with water, clean off the salt, and spread a thin even coat of TANNIT on the skin, let it dry for about 2 days, scrape off excess and it's done. then all you have to do is work it. I've never had hair slip or skins come apart with it.

-- Mark (mcford@theofficenet.com), March 13, 2002.

Alan - the Green Mohave rattlesnake I found in my barn last summer, who had plenty of ways to run away - didn't. Not all rattlesnakes are the type to just run away - the Green Mohave is ill-tempered and quite aggressive - just so everyone knows.

-- Katie (homesteader@accessnevada.com), March 15, 2002.

Well, if I found him in my *barn* that would be the end of him agressive or not!

If we were out in the woods well away from anything and he came at me regardless I'd put an end to him then too. Otherwise if they're not not close enough to endanger anything I'd give a non-aggresive rattlesnake a break and leave him be.

I don't kill non-venomous snakes at all. If I wanted a snake-skin hatband or belt I'd go hunt up a venomous snake.

......Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), March 15, 2002.


7 pm 8 May 02 My neighbor found a snake in his yard.about 4 ft long, dark green, kind of coiled, no rattle, striking at us like a rattler. It was probably more afraid of us attacking it than we afraid of it. We scooped it into a large paper bag threw it into the river 50 yards away and it swam off. Could it have been a water moccasin? Are they deadly? It was hissing in the sack the whole time it was contained.

-- Ted Hool (th19075@cedarnet.org), May 08, 2002.

Moccasins are black and are rather deadly. ITheir venom is strong and also hmmm how do I describe this, rots the skin at the site of the bite. Our older son worked one summer for a tree cutting company, they cut the brush, tree or tree branch for the electric companies. He had to go into swamps, etc in the summer and as part of his training had to hear about moccasins, he said that if you get bit by one you have 3 hrs to get medical attention before it got serious. 'm not sure what poisnous snakes are green. I did do a search on snakes a few yrs back and found lots of information, Including a link to snakes common in each state.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), May 08, 2002.

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