OK, I have found two very similiar tractors and don't know which one is a better choice. Both are about $4,000.00 with attachments.

Ford 800, 1958 Ferguson 204 TO-35; both come with brush hog, loader, post-hole digger. Both have no leaks, good tires (Ferguson's are new with something in the wheels..calcium?)

Ford has chains on the wheels, new carburator, rebuilt radiator and no power steering but he uses the loader.

Ferguson has new generator, new rims, some of the attachements are new and it also comes with a rake attachment.

I'm going to see them in the next few days, anything to ask or look for?

Thanks for any advice.

-- Rod Perrino (redjouster@aol.com), March 06, 2002

Answers

Diesel or gas? Diesel is more economical and has less maintance, power steering is needed if you are going to be operating for long periods of time.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), March 06, 2002.

Both models are likely gas which is simple to work on.

I would look closely at the Ford. Replacement parts will be easier to come by for the Ford. The Ford most likely has more HP.

Ferguson's has anti-freeze in the tires to weight the tractor down. This is a very good thing for a tractor with a loader. With the Ford you may want to add this, otherwise you have to put weight on back 3pt when using the loader up front. THis requires changing implements if the mower is not heavy enough.

I have a 1955 Ford 600 model 640. Works great. I have little skills but these tractors are easy to work on.

-- ChrisN (chrisnass@hotmail.com), March 06, 2002.

I agree that the Ford would probably be a better choice - more for your money and easier to get parts for. I have two old Fords - a 1948 8N and a 1956 850. Don't plan on being able to steer either when you have a full load in the bucket without power steering. Counterweights will help but loaders are 10 times more effective with PS. And aftermarket units are not cheap.

-- SteveD(TX) (smdann@swbell.net), March 06, 2002.

We can still get parts for our old 8N at the Ford dealer, have to order them, but can get them. I vote Ford.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), March 06, 2002.

The Ford's slightly ahead for value assuming they are both equal in condition. the Fergie has better tires, tires are not cheap. Could be filled with calcium water, it's a plus, the Ford will need it if it's not. Parts are not an issue for either, you can get Ferguson parts at your local auto parts store here! I'd go with the Ford but you won't go wrong with the Fergie either. Did the 800 come with a selecto speed tranny? I've loaned out my books, I don't think it did. If so avoid it like the plague.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), March 06, 2002.

I would be looking at condition. If one is more worn than the other would be a biggy. Any sign of blowby from engine breather tube is a sign of future oil usage. An engine in top shape usual has none. I have had this problem and had to do an engine overhaul. I just bought a backhoe without taking a high speed drive. Later, when I got it in high gear out on the road it made a racket in the trans. I had to put it in a lower gear. Should have tested it better. And I notice a bit of blue smoke and the mentioned blowby after I run it awhile. Should have tested it out until fully warmed and under load. I would run both tractors until I could tell if one is better. Don

-- Don (dairyagri@yahoo.com), March 06, 2002.

Hi Rod,

Some things to think about in the posts so far. Both lines are venerable and both models are of high quality.

1. Consider your needs honestly for now and for the future.

--if you will do little loading then power steering makes no difference at all. If you will use the loader for hours daily, then power steering is more important. Contrary to popular myth, you can operate a loader tractor without power steering but you will have to learn to do it and get used to it. You won't do much single hand steering while standing still or without a suicide knob, but you won't break front end parts because you turned against a rock or in a deep rut either.

--don't sweat the calcium chloride. You can do plenty of work with a tractor with or without weight in the wheels. Weight is good, but fluid weight is not a panacea of positives. Will you be doing lots of ground engaging work like plowing? Will you be doing alot of loader work with buckets full of very dense materials? Will the weight of the 3 point mower counter-balance the loader the way that you will use it? You can also bolt weights to your rear wheels for counter balanced rolling weight. You can also make concrete wheel weights if you are handy or concrete rear hitch weights, or a rock box, etc. I run calcium Chloride in some of the tractors but it is a pain when it leaks, Rims rust more quickly because some always leaks at some point. (probably why the ferguson has new rims) it is a pain to change tires, it is a pain because the tires are more prone to rupture, but it is cheap weight and it is off the chasis so it does not stress axle bearings.

--the ford probably has chains because the wheels/tires are not weighted. Consider your real traction needs.

2. Both tractors will be relatively easy to find parts for and to maintain. If you cannot find a dealer (while neither Ford, nor Harry Ferguson exist today as they did, both lines are incorporated in a line of machinery today (New Holland and Massey Fergusson as I recall)...Avoid the mentioned ford transmission....

--are you a weekender or a commercial operator? Are you likely to stress these machines or are you likely to be a nice retirement for them? If you will be a light user, then this worry is not much of one. If you are a commercial operator then do some research on parts availability for the specific models...and parts prices. if the tractor is down for repairs will it cost you dearly or will it be just a pain in the @$$?

Having said that, here are some questions to ask and things to look for.

1. Look for leaks yourself. Ask what oil they use in the hydraulic system. If they studder and stammer then you know that they neglected it...this is the most neglected part of acreage tractors second only to tranny oil.

2. Check all fluids for level and color. Again if they don't know where the check plug is for the tranny you will know that it has not been serviced while these folks had it unless they had dealer service. If any fluids are milky then you have water in them. Do this check after running them ands working hydraulics and all. Water in the tranny is just a sign of little recent use as it condensed in those big metal cases. A good workout will evaporate it out, or betteryet, you can drain it from the drain plug. If it is in the crankcase then you may have a head gasket breach or a head/block crack somewhere on the inside. If the oil is new in the engine you may not be able to tell this but look for any milkyness and think abut walking away.

3. Start the tractor, ask when the battery was replaced and when the last time they charged the battery was. If they charged it this morning ask why.

4. Run it thorough all gears and listen for any significant howl or growl. One is a gear lash problem and the other is a bearing problem. Neither is very relevant if you are just going to move some snow and mow some grass for less than 40 hours a year.

5. In each gear including reverse, place it in gear, throttle the tractor and let up on the throttle. If it stays in gear good, if it pops out you have some shift fork rod or gear lash/bearing wear issues. If you will use the tractor relativelyu little this is not a huge issue, but I would not pay full.

6. Does the clutch chatter or slip or does it engage smoothly with good definition? Does it squeel or is it peaceful? Even if you barely use the tractor you will want a sound clutch.

7. Raise the loader and bucket and shut the unit down. Does the loader and bucket stay put quietly or does it slowly in small increments move downward? If it does not stay put, you have some hydraulic valve issues or leaky joints or what have you. Again, if the loader or other hydraulic use is not huge for you don't sweat it but point it out.

8. Try to run the tractor under some load....drive it up a slope from a flat. If the tractor loses speed and does not asjust its own throttle then you need governor work. Usually governors don't go bad, they just need adjusting but....and you definitely need a governor that works well.

9. Engage the PTO. Does it howl? Does it sling fluid around? Does it engage easily? I believe that these tractors have PTO shafts that engage by sliding a splined coupling over a splined shaft as opposed to a wet or dry type disc clutch. If you can engage the PTO with a load on it like the mower. It should not slip and it should not grind when you engage it. Does it have the PTO guard? Do the PTO shafts have guards? Spinning naked shafts will quite handily relieve you of your limbs, hair and life so guards are a must. If they don't have them, then you will need to pay quite a bit to get them.

10. Does the engine run smoothly or does it miss? Does it miss only at idle but not under load? Some miss is probably normal, but persistent miss under load could be one of a million things from simple ignition/fuel issues to valve and compression issues.

11. Does the tractor smoke after it has been warmed up? Is the smoke black or is it more white/blueish. If it is black it is running rich and not a problem if you can adjust the carb and time it. If it is the other then it is oil combusting which means cylinder/ring wear. If you willuse it lightly this is not an issue for a few years as long as you don't mind cleaning plugs more regularly.

12. At idle and throttled up and as the rpm are coming back down listen for any engine knock. If it knocks walk away unless you can get it for less than a grand and you feel like overhauling the engine.

13. Shine a flashlight into the fuel tank. Is it all rusty? Some rust is normal for that age but if it is completely rust covered, you will need to take care of it soon. Look in the fuel sediment bowl for rust flakes too.

24. Size up the overall feel of the machine. Is it just well worn old iron or has it been abused. How many hours on the hour meter? How honest does the seller feel? How smart does the seller feel?

Be honest with yourself regarding your needs of this tractor and you will have handled most of the issues.

Good luck and have fun. Don't feel like these are the only two tractors going. Look at Yesterdaystractors.com for some ideas on the market value of those models and to see what else is out there.

Oscar

-- Oscar (owill@mail.whittier.edu), March 06, 2002.

The Ford is slightly easier to get parts for. (From the New Holland dealer. New Holland bought out Ford Ag years ago, and now Fiat has somewhat merged Case-IH with New Holland. Massey is with Agco - the Oliver, White, MM, Allis Chalmers, Gleaner, & a dozen others.)

Anyhow, without power steering, you do not have a Ford 860. However, there are many other models of 800, from 820 through 870 I think with many different options. Avoid the SelectoSpeed tranny which was Ford's version of an automatic - worked good in it's day, but has 3 times the parts to repair, costs more to fix that the tractor is worth today. These things bring 1/2 of a good x60 model if they are working - do not get suckered! An 820 would be worth considerably less than an 850 or 860, so I would want to find out exactly what it is before buying.

Otherwise, the higher that middle number is in the model, the more features it has.

Nothing wrong with the Fordson either, if it is in better shape or costs less.

More old tractor info can be found at

www.ytmag.com

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), March 06, 2002.

Wow, thank you all so much for the information. I went to look at the Ferguson tonight. It started on the second try, no smoke at all, even warm, no noise when he engaged the pto or used the loader. He said it had a little water in the gearbox. There was no rust to speak of except the fenders, but it hadn't been restored recently or painted, it just had the patina of old metal. He obviously had taken care of it and spent some money on it the few years he had it. He is getting a bigger tractor and has to sell this one. I will test it better before I buy it, as was suggested, we just ran out of time today. The mower and rake were bought new, the digger was almost new. I go to see the Ford this weekend. It's a big investment at this time and I appreciate the help from everyone. Thanks again.

-- Rod Perrino (redjouster@aol.com), March 06, 2002.

I had a ford 9N, which I sold. It was an inferior tractor to the Ferguson TO-20 which I have now. The later models may have improved the basic Ford designs, I don't know. My advice is, all things being mechanically and price similar, try driving each machine and see which one handles easier. Try shifting, steering, go foward and backward and do some tight turns. Get on and off. Pick the one that starts easy and drives easy. Thats what you'll be doing with it the most once you buy it.

-- chris Vadas, PA (vadas@nfdc.net), March 07, 2002.