In the post below on health care insurance and homesteading, there was a question on what homesteading meant to the poster as regards the situation. IMHO being a homesteader entails learning how to handle all but the most severe health crises the way you handle other "on the farm" crises - by yourself and/or with the help of friends. Take first aid courses at minimum. Get CPR certified. Maybe even go as far as to take an LPN lisense (doesn't take as long as you would think, and there's always a job for you at that point, to boot). Read the archived posts on suturing and giving shots (your vet can teach you how to give shots, and might even teach you how to suture - no reason why you couldn't use your livestock skills on people). Take classes that will help you with medical emergencies just like you would take classes on soap making and goat raising. Sign up for volunteer fireman courses if nothing else and then as a bonus, you're are helping out your community as well.

Learn to tell the difference between a panic and an emergency. A large and nasty, but well cleaned and bandaged, cut is a panic. A bloody stump is an emergency. Take care of the panics at home, keep an eye out for infections, and don't sweat it. How many times have you gone to a doc, then muttered "I can't believe I'm paying $**** just for that! Any trained monkey could have figured that out!" all the way home? Most of the time they can't do anything for you that you couldn't do yourself, with a little training and a calm head. And without al the flung feces.

Get a few books on home medical care. There are several that are excellent. There are a few that are not. Study them carefully, either in the library or at the bookstore, and pick the one or two that seem to make the most sense for you. Get one on drugs and their interactions as well. It never hurts. Take a professional friend along to evaluate them if you know nothing about the subject. Surely everyone knows someone who is either a nurse or who knows a nurse or doctor or a vet. Ask nice and buy them lunch.

This is YOUR LIFE. Too many of us have forgotten that and have let ourselves be talked into out-sourcing our responsibilities to others to the point that we are incapable (or believe we are incapabele) of handling anything that we were not directly trained for. We have become a nation of idiot-savants, capable of doing wondrous things in our "degree field" and incapable of the most basic skills in any other. Don't let them fool you. Yes, there are some things that only a hospital can provide you with (multi-drug-resistant staph is one of them). I defy anyone to do a kitchen table angioplasty. However, for 90% of anything that anyone is going to run into, a doctor is just an expensive way of passing the buck. After all, these guys are highly trained professionals and yet sometimes they screw up too, just like we do, and sometimes even the easest procedure takes an unexpected turn for the worst. True, you could sew someone up and it could get infected and cause untold problems. So could your doc, and if he did it in the O.R., there's no telling what that infection could be. The only difference is that we have been brainwashed into thinking that if we do it and screw up, that we were wrong to try and if they do it and screw up - well, sue and sue alike, because they are god-like and this shouldn't happen. This mindset is both stupid, and costly, for it is what has made healthcare as expensive as it is.

A lot of medical care exists merely to placate the non-patient's fear that the patient will die. Well, the patient WILL die - if not today, then some other day from some other cause. A lot of money and care goes into making dying take as long as possible, and a lot of health insurance is expended on just this sort of prolonged evasion of reality. Death happens. Homesteaders see no reason to avoid it in other circumstances. It happens to livestock, to summer, to cars, and to dreams. And it happens to the people we love, no matter how many doctors we call in. Nothing you can do will ever change this.

But in the mean time, you can treat the boo-boo's at home (in a much more relaxing and friendly environment, where the patient's body is familiar with, and armed against, the germs that are present), save the hospital for the really big stuff, and rest assured that no matter what the media want you to believe, you have a right and a responsibility to look after yourself and your own. If the schools don't work out, you school at home. If the mechanic screws you over, you learn to fix your car yourself (and are stunned to realize just how simple replacing brake pads really is!) And if the medical system gives you ulcers, you can protest just the same. You march your patient right into the house, yank that nasty piece of glass out of their foot, rinse it well, bandage it up, check your records to make sure that a tetnus shot has been administered within a reasonable period of time, give 'em a sucker and tell them to stay out of the barn with their shoes off. It's the American way.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), February 19, 2002

Answers

Unless you are a homesteader with a past!! Try paying for seven surgeries, chemotherapy, radiation, and now cardiomyopathy with four kids and no health insurance when you are 35 years old with a farm foreman income and in the middle of said nursing school. This happened to me ten years ago, so now that I have insurance compliments of a nursing job, and have medications to pay for monthly, am I going to do it myself without health insurance? NO! In this case, the sacrifice is well worth peace of mind for the future.

-- nobody (notrealemail@email.net), February 19, 2002.

Soni, After fifty years of having medical insurance, I found I could live without it. I'm 94 now, so I've been without insurance for 44 yrs. Serious injuries? Sure, I've had a few. Managed to pay the hospitals and docs off a little at a time. Broken bones? More than a few. My sons, nephews and nieces and I set them ourselves. Stitches? Lots of 'em. You learn to survive, or you don't.

-- George (wycowboy2@yahoo.com), February 19, 2002.

George..... your comment at the end of your post is going to be my new signature line. Awesome. Thank you.

-- Rose (open_rose@hotmail.com), February 19, 2002.

Soni, that philosophy is just fine when the average life span in America was 47, no one lived long enough to need or want the availablity of modern medical miracles like open heart surgery to correct those years and years of after effects of the traditional American diet, or breast cancer surgery or treatment, or prostate cancer treatment. These miracles are what allow us to lve to ages beyond the old standard of dead at 47, which was the standard not too very long ago.

Some one has to pay for these medical treatments if they want them, they took years of research (and money) to obtain, the knowledge to do them did not appear overnight and without much blood, sweat and tears.

It is the responsible and ethical duty of all who desire to live beyond the old standard of dead by 47 to obtain and carry at least the minimum catastrophic medical coverage, available to most everyone and their dependent family members for as low as $97 a month, or have enough assets to cover any and all major medical and hospital bills. Otherwise, unless you turn down that heart bypass that is the only thing that will keep your significant other alive, you are expecting the rest of us American taxpayers to cover your medical costs, either through county medical coverage ( Medicaid), hospital grants ( that take that much needed money away from much needed research) or by the hositals fund for non-paying customers ( which is just one thing that makes insurance coverage even more expensive for the rest of us).

So if you are saying that it is the American Way to risk losing the Farm by not carrying minimum medical coverage at a cost of as little as $25 a week, that is the weirdest lesson in economics I have ever heard of.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), February 19, 2002.

Again, I'd like to recommend the book "Where there is no doctor" by David Werner.

We used it in Tanzania (where there really was NO doctor!) but it could come in handy for all kinds of things - it is a very practical book - lots of illustrations - meant to help those with no medical training.

A couple of examples of chapters are: "Sicknesses that are often confused" - "First Aid" - "Information for mothers and midwives."

For those of you in non-English speaking areas or countries - it is published in many different languages.

Publication info. is The Hesperian Foundation PO Box 1692 Palo Alto, CA 94302

ISBN 0942364013

-- hmm (h.m.metheny@att.net), February 19, 2002.

I'm an LPN, since '83, and it takes approx. 1 yr to get through the classes, then you have to pass boards. Not everyone does, so it is not a given that you will, but, if you do, the pay is pretty decent. Around here it is about $16 hr, and you can have health insur. through your employer. I've never seen family coverage for the $25 a week, you spoke of,Annie.

I agree, insurance, especially if health problems or kids, is a necessary evil. You would be pretty irresponsible, IMHO, to forgo it. Lots of things can be handled at home; do you really need to pay $50 for a 5 min. visit, just to find out your baby has a cold, and not an ear infection? Learn what an infected ear looks like, and save some money. Otoscopes are fairly inexpensive at drug stores. Can also check for possible strep throat with it, saving more money. There are also cheaper alternatives to pharmacutical antibiotics.

We have insur. through my husbands employer. Thankfully, we rarely need to use it, but it is reassuring to know that it's there. I also don't run to the doctor with myself or kids, everytime we get a sniffle, like some. Common sense goes a long way on the homestead.

Jody

-- Jody (ruready@cin.net), February 19, 2002.

Annie

Please tell me where I can get catostrophic medical insurance fo 97 bucks a month. Thanks.

Regarding whether we need insurance or not.............1) some of us are not inclined to get bypass surgery or radiation, or chemo treatments.

When I compared the last policy I heard about, we determined that if we kept several thousand dollars on hand for medical emergencies, that it would equate to us holding our premiums in case we needed care.

-- Rick in Southwest WV (Rick_122@hotmail.com), February 19, 2002.

Hey Soni, I knew that was you before I got halfway through. I agree with most of what you said. Most of us run to the doctor when it's not really necessary then we are often over-medicated and misdiagnosed. Usually after I give my doctor my symptons, I tell her what I think it is and she usually agrees with me. There is so much information on the internet that you can usually figure out what your illness is but the problem is you can't get the medication to fix it unless you go to the doctor. Also, with the cost of prescriptions I wouldn't want to be without insurance. If my husband hadn't worked for almost 35 years with the same company before he retired and had insurance as part of his retirement we'd be up the creek without a paddle. You just have to learn when you can take care of a problem yourself and when you really need to see the doctor. Give Sam and Max hugs and kisses.

-- C.U. Ntheflowerpatch (everybody@everywhere.com), February 19, 2002.

Jody and Rick, you can find many, many policies at www.ehealthinsurance.com, they were recommended by Time magazine the week before last for finding the best health insurance rates in the country. I spent several hours at their site and it was eye-opening to say the least, no middle man, no fees, just dealing directly with the providing companies.

Catastrophic coverage means a having a deductible between $5000 and $2500, no prescription coverage, no doctor's office coverage, just coverage for major things requiring hospitalization, hence it's name "catastrophic" coverage. To be used in serious situations, not flu shots, snotty noses and simple fractures and such.

I found coverage there for both myself and husband and we are not young by any means, for $97 a month, $5000 deductible, $117 a month for $2500 deductible, and the price goes up as the deductible comes down. Rates are guaranteed for 12 months.

These rates are not unique by any means, there are several other folks I know who have similar type coverage for about the same price, this is "no frills" coverage, meant to keep you from lossing the Farm in the face of serious medical problems, but that is exactly what I want, the rest of the usual stuff I can pay for out of pocket, or make payments with my doctor. We live in a very rural area, considered an Appalachian poverty zone, so most all the doctors here are most agreeable to payments being made.

It takes some searching, and you have to do your homework, but affordable and sensible medical coverage can be found, if you make the effort.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), February 19, 2002.

I pay $142 a month for health insurance. I'm 55 years old and never turn in a claim. Every time the clock turns over another year, my premiums are raised. Tempted to give it up except that we would be bankrupt if something serious occurred.

-- Hank (hsnrs@att.net), February 20, 2002.

So someone please explain to me how you are meant to get insurance, even catastrophic insurance if you have a pre-existing condition. My husband has diabetes. We have inquired about insurance and was told he'd better stick with working for a major employer so that he can be covered under the group policy. His dream would be free to choose what kind of job he wants and have the freedom to be self employed if he wanted.

Even though he is diabetic he usually only goes to the doctor for an annual checkup and twice a year to have his eyes checked. At his last checkup he was diagnosed with an under active thyroid.

The kids and I are real healthy and I agree that we should learn to take care of the simple stuff ourselves. My 5 year old has never been to the doctors ever except for his regularly scheduled check-ups. The same for my 2 1/2 year old with the exception of when he needed stitches on his face. If it were any where else on his body I would have probably used the super glue stuff we have on hand or use butterfly stitches. I myself only go for my regularly scheduled visits with only a couple of exceptions that were pregnancy related.

-- Anita in NC (anitaholton@mindspring.com), February 20, 2002.

Soni, I agree with you. I dont carry medical insurance. Think it is preposterous the money people spend out of fear of the unknown. I'm not anxious to die, but when time comes, it comes. Silly to spend mega bucks to try and get a couple extra years of life that is going to be painful and miserable for me and everyone else around me. Also silly to waste years at some crappy job I hate just to get medical coverage just so I can spend couple extra miserable years at end of my life hooked up to bunch tubes and rattling when I walk from bunch pills inside me. Seems that would truly be wasting my life. Each to their own though. I figured out long ago I am going to spend my life doing what interests me and accept death when its time. The heck with what anybody else thinks of my choices.

-- HermitJohn (hermit@hilltop_homestead.zzn.com), February 20, 2002.

As someone who needed 2 blood transfusions last week and two in December, plus home oxygen and today I have to get a bone marrow tap....I'm glad I have insurance!!

I live a very healthy life, but that doesn't always help. I think I inheirited everything bad from all my relatives!

It always makes me mad when I hear folks say I just need to eat better or live different. Heck, I have an organic vegetable farm and live on a homestead in an underground house. There's just so much I can do and some things are out of our hands.

In my perfect world, we would all have health insurance.....and not need it ;-)

http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/

-- Wendy Martin (wsm311@aol.com), February 20, 2002.

I think that excluding someone with pre-existing conditions should be against the law, to the point where you shouldn't be allowed even to ask. You can't choose your parents. Same with car accidents and such. These things happen.

On the other hand, if you smoke, drink (if you really want to quit, you can, I don't hold with alchoholism as a disease, myself), or do drugs, other than rehab programs (to help you quit) you should be on your own for any complications resulting from them. I would make exceptions for children of the above, but not if they later took up those habits themselves.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 20, 2002.

$97/mo. Yeah right! When last I checked on that website, the quote for me was $400/mo. I'm presently paying only $259 with a 50/50 co-pay from Golden Rule, max out of pocket $5000.

-- al (yr2012@hotmail.com), February 20, 2002.

Well, I just visited that ehealthinsurance.com website, and checked to see the rates they could get us... Of course, being in the prime of life with two young kids, the numbers looked very good! With a $5,000 deductible, we could get covered for $113 a month! Yippee!

But then, I noticed a little statement in a paragraph way way down on the page... "The Monthy Premium amounts shown are subject to change based on your medical history..." Yeah, I knew it was in there somewhere. My heart problem would throw the premiums way over our heads.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), February 21, 2002.

I realize that health insurance cost are out of this world but it was mentioned to take a nursing class (LPN) for further educate yourself and provide a certain amount of self-doctoring. The cost of LPN school where I attended, many years ago now, is over $5000 for their year program. RN's $5000 or more a year for a two year program. You better be dedicated to take on that cost for your families benefit and not think of making and keeping a career in nursing your main objective and a big cost to avoid paying insurance cost. I guess if you really can't find an insurance company that will fit into your budget you will have to budget a certain amount monthly for any doctor's bills. I know it wouldn't even probably touch any hospital and doctor bills of a huge illness...but heaven forbid we have Socialized medicine in America !!!! Spent my summers with my Grandparents in England when I was a child and still have family in Canada and England today. They have a small amount taken out of their paychecks and don't have the worry of huge bills. The doctor use to come to my Grandmother's house to "trim" her toenails !!! Won't get that in the states. They get quality care and they don't wait forever as some would have you believe to get medical attention either. Insurance is big business now a days and really they run this country I think. Does anyone really know what the answer really is ???

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), February 21, 2002.

Canada and Great Britain have their own healthcare problems--you still have rationing of care, except done by the state, and even Great Britain is starting to look at insurance as done by the states. Lots of Canadians also come to the states (and probably Mexico too) for cheap healthcare.

I think the best way to go is to use an HMO (health maintenance organization), since the really good ones are into heading things off early, rather than putting off treatment until the last minute.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 21, 2002.

Helena, I was the one who mentioned nursing school. Yes, it isn't cheap to do, or easy, but I know junior colleges are cheaper, and almost everyone will qualify for a grant of some kind. It amazes me the free money out there, for education. Not so much for men, unless displaced, but minorites of all kinds (women/race/disabled/displaced/etc). Seems the government thinks it's their "duty" to educate, and then make employable, all females. What is wrong with going to school just for the education? I do think everyone should have a basic education, so if something should happen, they are able to support their family. Sort of like an insurance program (smile). I've worked off and on, part-time mostly, and the money does come in handy. It is sort of a security blanket for me. Nursing does work well into the family schedule, too. Take off a few years to raise the kids if you want...then step right back in when ready. I just meant to present it as a viable alternative,that can pay decently, if you want...and you can always get a job, no matter where you move.

-- Jody (ruready@cin.net), February 22, 2002.