poured concrete walls for horse barn?

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Will be starting construction on my new horse barn in a couple of months. Originally thinking pole barn, but now I'm considering concrete walls. This is a large barn- 36 by 84. I haven't gotten any estimates yet, but I did figure it to be about 60 yards of concrete- not counting footers. We'd have to hire it done or rent forms. I'm thinking it might be cheaper since the inside walls wouldn't need to be lined and once the forms are stripped, add trusses and roof and the barn is basically usable and safe. Added bonus- it would be fairly safe from termites and tornadoes. Disadvantages I've thought of- I'd better be darn sure of window and door placement and damp in winter, also need a pump truck to pour above grade walls. Pros and cons anyone?

-- kim(ky) (nospam@nospam.com), January 30, 2002

Answers

kim, figure in the cost of sealer maybe? Concrete does sound permanent, but cold. Don't know if it is warmer than wood? Hope some others weigh in on this, I'm curious. LQ

-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), January 30, 2002.

Con - You must line your cement walls with wood at least 4' high. Horses will kick the walls and can severely damage thier hooves and legs. This is from experience! :(

Con - Depending on your area, cement barns are cold and are hard to keep warm with the animals body heat. :(

Con - When horses get 'cast' against a cement wall they have more trouble getting up since thier hooves will just slip on the cement. Horses can die very easily if cast against a wall.

Pro - Easy to disinfect. :)

-- shari (smillers@snowcrest.net), January 30, 2002.


Consider going to places which board horses for others, and county fairground with horse boarding facilities, to see what they have and their opinion of the advantages and disadvantages.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), January 30, 2002.

I know that the concrete walls will need some reinforcing steel within them, especially for wind loads, and if they will support a roof structure. I think to build something like this, you should consult a structural engineer, who could really give you some information with this sort of thing.

Regarding surfacing for cattle traffic. It is a common practice here to put cattle panels on the bottoms of cattle trailers, so that their hooves have a little purchase on smooth flooring, such as wood flooring in these trailers. Without it, turns and stop / starts really mess up cattle balance.

But this practice is discouraged if horses are involved AND if these horses have to be backed out of a trailer. It seems that their horseshoes catch on the edges of the panels and get pulled off and / or trip. If the horse is moving forward and can be turned around, they cattle panels are still used.

Some more .02, hope this helps.

-- j.r. guerra in s. tx. (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), January 30, 2002.


Pour the walls on the ground and then stand them up on their footings. A lot cheaper and quicker as only edge forms are needed.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), January 30, 2002.


Are you above ground?If so factor in the cost of a crane or pump to get the CONCRETE [cement is an ingredigent in conrete] into the wall. Also poured in place is the most cost efficent way.I have seen alot of walls poured in the 25 years I spent working for a ready mix concrete company and there is a hugh difference in the quality of the work for from one wall company to the next.

-- Gary (burnett_gary@msn.com), January 30, 2002.

All other reasons aside, a concrete barn would cost three or four times ( or more)as much as a properly built pole barn for horses here, and that would include all stalls and lining the sides with wood, as well as a full loft for hay storage. Concrete costs are astronomical here, pole barns are cheap and go up quickly, and properly done, resistant to bugs and wind.

Ick, a concrete barn in winter, cold, damp, and cold again!!!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), January 30, 2002.


I have had a concrete barn for over ten years. The pluses are:

NEVER have to worry about cribbing...except in one case I had a TB mare boarded and she tried to chew the concrete block - her owner lined the top row with a roll of rubber and no more problem.

Don't have to worry about replacing boards all the time from horses which do kick the barn wall.

A hint - to stop those horses which do kick - we ran our interior walls up 10 feet. If they can't see each other they don't kick. Mostly our horses would kick during feeding times, the rest of the time they are fine, but some horses don't like each other, so we would occasionally move those around until we found a horse they could tolerate.

Another plus - very easy to clean. Very easy to disinfect.

Concrete is not any colder than wood, actually if you use block you will have the interior of the block (the hole) which will act as an insulator. Our barn stayed warm in the winter when it was below 20 out, we just shut the doors and windows.

I spent two years traveling around the state looking at barns. I looked at big boarding barns, Morton Barns, small one owner barns and looked at metal, wood, concrete block and brick. I saw mahogany lined barns with chandaleirs (sp?) that were owned by Arab folks, and plain run in sheds. I made notes and drawings of the barns that I liked best and talked extensively with the people running the barns (either the owner or managers). My barn was ten stalls, tack room, wash rack w/hot and cold water, feed room and lounge for horse owners to congregate. We now live in one half of the barn and the other half is still stalls.

One thing I did notice - my girlfriend put up her barn at the exact same time I put mine up. We started construction during the same month and finished approximately two weeks from each other. Her barn was wood and only contained her horses. My was concrete block with a concrete aiselway and regular roof. My barn housed my horses and boarded horses or horses in training. We also had one stall for foaling and I had people coming and going seven days a week for riding lessons and training. So my barn was heavily used.

My friend called me and ask me to come up one weekend. When I got there she was up at the barn - replacing boards. Her barn was four years old. My barn, other than being cleaned regularly, never had a repair other than the odd latch for a gate. Most of my stalls had stall guards instead of doors as the boarders were long term and show horses generally are used to be stalled. Her horses had kicked, chewed, and generally beaten the boards really good. So all in all, I got the better deal. My barn was destroyed in a tornado which also got my house. I built the barn back - and yep, it's concrete block. Insurance is much cheaper as the danger of fire is lower - after all there's less to burn. It stays cooler in the summer due to the high roofline.

All in all, I love the block. I do think you would need to invest in sealant, I used a white paint sealant and it is about $12. a gallon, but overall it keeps moisture out and looks nice too. Yes, be sure where you want doors and windows as they will be harder to change. And put in water lines so We put windows for horse in the middle of each 12 x 12 stall and the doorframes were started 1 foot from each interior wall opening into the stall. Don't have your doors open into the aisleway. It's a royal pain when moving horses around. All our stall fronts had big openings so the horses could see what was happening in the barn. The openings were covered by bars so that the horses couldn't stick their heads out into the aisle. Less chance of a bite here or nip there. Every stall front had a saddle rack pull down with a tie ring so the horse could be tied and saddled in front of their stall.

Good luck, I really think you would be happy with your barn if it were concrete. It costs a little more in the beginning, but is ever so light on the pocketbook in the end. Less maintenance and repairs. You can also do what a lot of people here have done (which I kinda disagree with due to humidity in the south) is stucco over the concrete. It looks really nice, but the humidity does cause maintenance problems. You can also board and batten over the concrete later if you want the "wood" look. But then, you defeat the purpose of having concrete.

Hope everything works out!



-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), January 30, 2002.


Glad you asked this question. We are thinking of building a 2-story barn and living upstairs. Any suggestions for us?

-- Hank (hsnrs@att.net), January 30, 2002.

I knew someone who had a concrete barn. A stallion ended up with a broken leg one morning. They believe he kicked the wall. He had to be put down when he didn't recover from surgery. Thrashed around and damaged it again. The stalls were not lined. I'd rather replace a board than one of my horses!! If you decide on concrete please line them!! Someone transported my horses for me once that had cattle panels on the floor of the trailer over the wood. I had a mare paw and the panel came loose and she fell and flipped over breaking her lead rope. Thank goodness she was only scraped up!! Horses are like little children if there is a way to get into trouble or get hurt they can do it!! That is why we childproof a house and have to horseproof the barn and pasture. I had a mare get injured on the end of a stall latch!! Twenty inch slice down her side to the ribs!! Major stitches!! Vet came out to stich her up in the pouring rain with the only the headlights of our vehicles to see by!! No power nearby! Never thought a latch would do that! Just think of any problems of what trouble the horse can get into. Good luck with your barn.

-- PJC (zpjc5_@hotmail.com), January 31, 2002.


We don't mind living in the house side of the barn. Although you will have to keep your stalls very clean (we clean two times per day and strip when smelly). Another thing, is flies. If you keep your barn really clean and haul the manure away from the barn, you will not have so many flies around. I put manure out on the pasture.

We never have had a horse get hurt in our barn. The corners are rounded off, but truth be told, a horse that can get a broke leg in a concrete barn can get a broke leg in a wooden barn too. Horses are accidents waiting for a place to happen. I don't know how lining a concrete wall with wood is going to make anything safer as you still have to deal with the concrete underneath- but if it makes you feel like it's safer, then do it.

Just saying that a horse can get hurt no matter how much you do to protect them. I had a mare once that was in a pasture with some other mares. Pasture was enclosed in a 3 board fence (boards are supposed to be safer for horses than other fences.) Well this mare kicked (high up in the air)at another mare and somehow came down on the fence post and gutted herself. Do I still have board fencing - yep. Was this a once time thing? Yep. Could it happen again? Yep.

So I would go with what makes you feel most comfortable both financially now and in the future. Also, consider what you want to see each day. I like my barn as it is really easy to maintain, that doesn't mean it is better than someone else's wood or steel sided barn. It just works really well for us.

-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), January 31, 2002.


I would give my eye teeth for a concrete block barn! Anything wood will be chewed, rotted by urine, or otherwise destroyed by the horses. Metal siding is cold, gets bent up, & can be dangerous. One lady I know told me of a horse who somehow got a leg between 2 of the metal siding panels and nearly sawed her leg off. Had to be put down. I know of one veterinarian who also owns show & race horses, including expensive TB stallions. His barn is all concrete!

-- ellie (elnorams@aol.com), January 31, 2002.

Hi Kim!

You didn't really describe Your intent with the horses - business, breeding, pleasure. Do You NEED stalls and an entire barn? One of my professors (I've a degree in Equine Management) is a top Equine vet and successful Standardbred breeder. ALL of his broodmares are on pasture - period. He uses run-in sheds for all stock and has a small barn for sick/foaling stalls (most births are pasture births), tack & feed, etc. He jokes his place is paid for by all the 'horse stall' folks.

The more 'natural' Your horsekeeping can be , the better. Horses do much better in that situation and costs are MUCH lower. Facility maintenance and insuring drops, manure handling is minimal or nonexistant, vet costs are negligble, and with properly managed pasture, feed costs are cut. Even Horses in 'dry lot' situations do much better with run-ins instead of stalls.

As an example - I went from assistant barn manager at a TB breeding farm to leasing and mangaing a rental riding stable. It took 2 of us 3 hours for morning chores with 14 TBs including feeding, turnout, stalls, maintenance and upkeep of the barn. And that's without grooming or stripping any stalls. I built a feeding fence at the rental stable adjacent to the hay barn and well away from the water troughs. Once the herd 'got' the routine, haying and individually graining 25 horses took 25 minutes if I worked alone. With a volunteer familiar with the routine - half that. Which left loads more time for grooming, training and just 'being' with the horses.

One neat idea I saw at a breeding farm for thier big events - they pastured with run-ins exclusively. A large tent was rented (?) for the events and times when many owners would want a nice barn. 'Stalls' were made from stacked hay bales with booths and displays in between. Everything was bright and clean and smelled WONDERFULL!!! The atmosphere was like a fair, relaxed and happy. Two days later, they had pasture where thier 'barn' had been.

These are just ideas to consider if You don't NEED a traditional stable. Hope they help. You're welcome to e-mail if You've any questions.

Goo

-- Randle Gay (rangay@hotmail.com), February 02, 2002.


I agree with Randle. A horse who has experienced a horse's life is much smarter and educated than a poor horse who was born and raised in a prison cell.

Boards? It is far more common for a horse to break boards and impale themselves on them than it is for one to seriously injure themselves on cement. Most horses give little test kicks before they hit something full force.

-- Just Duckie (Duck@spazmail.com), February 02, 2002.


Thanks for the input. I have a small breeding farm and I recently bought more property so I can build my dream farm- or at least try to on a limited budget. Although I really don't need a barn that big right now, but I'd rather build too big to allow for expansion and possibly boarders than have to add on in a couple of years. My horses are out most of the time, broodmares 100%, young stock in at night in winter, day during the summer and during inclement weather. I'd like to be able to do more training at home, also, which is very difficult now because I don't have the facilities.

-- kim (nospam@nospam.com), February 03, 2002.


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